Downhill MTB at Wimberry

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 Andy Hardy 09 Apr 2023

Wimberry Rocks

Couldn't decide which forum to stick this in, so mods, move as you see fit

Walked down through the boulders today. Someone has been building a downhill track through the boulders from the top RHS of the crag ( looking up). Some "inconvenient" rocks have been chiseled (assume to enable a faster descent) half arsed berms have been dug, which look like they'll wash away with the next shower. Sods have been placed to form ramps onto the back of some boulders and a jump built to clear the fence at the bottom.

Do MTBers not accept the challenge of the descent as nature made it? Or is this more likely local yoof getting up to no good?

Anyway if you're bouldering there, keep an eye out, or your tricky top out might end up with a face full of bike 😳

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 Matt Podd 09 Apr 2023
In reply to Andy Hardy:

That's pretty poo! Is it in the National Park? If so contact the wardens.

OP Andy Hardy 09 Apr 2023
In reply to Matt Podd:

NP boundary runs along the top of the crag.

 craig h 09 Apr 2023
In reply to Andy Hardy:

It does also include the boulders and much of the Dove Stone's area, as well as right across to the A62 near Marsden.

The area is managed by 3 agencies, the RSPB, United Utilities and Oldham Council as well as falling under the Peak District National Park.

There has been ongoing problems / construction work by the downhill mountain bikers in the area for many years, just wander through the plantation next to the boulders or walk downhill from the Duck Stone / Charnell Clough to see their handy work.

Who to contact, not sure tbh these days, a good starting point could be the local BMC Access Representative - Northern Peak & Chew Valley - Mark Warwicker - 07513 935004.

Post edited at 21:09
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 ste_d 10 Apr 2023
In reply to Andy Hardy:

The boulders and crag fall within the park boundary and as mentioned by Craig this has been an ongoing thing for many years.

Indeed a few years ago I wrote to peak park and rspb to see if anything could be done. A few signs went up in the plantation but were pretty quickly torn down.

When gently questioning said activity amongst 30 odd year old men I've met with a pretty aggressive response!

All in all its a busy area with many user groups climbers, walkers, bikers, twitchers, picnic, BBQs, etc

There's also the Life for Life tree planting scheme which also operates in the plantation.

Last time I was at Wimberry the track being cut through the boulders by bikes was at the more obscure Western end of the boulder field and though not great it seemed little used and less likely to disrupt boulderers. Unless a new route is being cut!?

 TobyA 10 Apr 2023
In reply to Andy Hardy:

It seems it is pretty well understood by most mountain bikers (beyond kids anyway) that you have no rights of way to ride except on bridleways, restricted byways and BOATs. It's a long time since I lived over there, so I've looked on the map and there seem to be basically no bridleways around the Chew Valley at all. From the map it even looks the Chew Road (which from memory is metalled track isn't it?) as a ROW is only a public footpath so you don't have a right to even ride a bike up to the reservoir and back. I imagine it would be hugely frustrating to be a mountain biker local to there and having almost nowhere off-road you could ride your bike.

I can't remember exactly but Peak MTB has done the maths and it's something like only 12 or 15 percent of ROW in the Peak District are bridleways or above where bikes have access. This leads to exactly the issues you've seen here, and I reckon the associated one someone else brought up, of aggressiveness from MTBers actually doing the digging.

So first people are really restricted in their local areas as to where they have a ROW to ride a bike, and that leads to riders riding footpaths where they don't. Some walkers don't mind, but others get upset or angry about it and there seems to be plenty of friction between walkers and bikers as a result. Then some people dig, to make their own tracks or make existing paths on the ground more exciting for mountain biking. I'm pretty certain that anyone who can be bothered to lug a shovel out with them to dig trails is serious enough to know that they have no right to be doing that without permission. You are also getting into the realms of aggravated trespass - digging up land you don't own, and that to my understanding could be a criminal (and hence police) matter rather than a civil one. So there are stories of when challenging people digging with out permission, the trail builders being abusive or even threatening, because they know what they are doing is potentially illegal.

ROW reform seems to be the sort of thing that most people agree is overdue, but feels like it is never going to happen. I mountain bike regularly, and generally stick to bridleways - but if you do that you have the annoyance of knowing you are missing out on some excellent technical riding that could make much more logical off road loops. It is really frustrating. That's not a defence of illegal trail building, but if anyone meets people building ramps up boulders at Wimberry, short of calling the cops, you might get a better response explaining where boulder problems go, where boulderers are likely to be standing and so on, so if they do want to use the boulders as part of 'the build' they are unlikely to be ones on which boulderers are likely to be. Whoever the landowner is, is likely to be who would be responsible for dismantling illegal trail builds. 

In reply to Matt Podd:

 The wardens don’t operate in that area they were pulled from the briefing centre by the dam wall  sometime ago 

 Edit they may still operate  in a limited way in the area but the wardens briefing centre has closed 

 mondite 10 Apr 2023
In reply to Andy Hardy:

> Do MTBers not accept the challenge of the descent as nature made it? Or is this more likely local yoof getting up to no good?

Just as there are many types of climbers there are many types of mtbers.

There does seem to be sadly a bit of a trend to recreate the trail centre experience on the local trails.

Quite possibly accelerated during lock down when people couldnt visit the centres.

Removed User 10 Apr 2023
In reply to craig h:

Last time I walked down from the Duckstones there was a flipping ramp to clear the fence!

 StuPoo2 12 Apr 2023
In reply to TobyA:

That feels like a fairly measured response Toby - though not all response on this thread are.

I cannot help but detect an odd tone from some - "Us climbers have the right to rub Magnesium Carbonate all over the rocks in the national park .. but it's quite outrageous that some NED on a bike might dare to ride past my chalk covered boulder!"

I get their point and I fully understand the comments re: ROW (or lack thereof for bikes) in England - you are of course correct.  I am commenting only upon the tone that some of the replies have been delivered with on this thread.

I would encourage everyone to reflect on how it is done up here in Scotland.  In Scotland we have  our glorious Outdoor Access Code [1].  With the exceptions of back gardens, greens on golf courses and a few others ... we can go where we want.  We can walk, run, ride, paddle climb and camp where we want (notably not inside the Trossachs camping management zone).  There is 1x key thing though ... no recreational land user has rights above another recreational land user.  i.e. There is absolutely nothing to stop the MTB'ers riding their bikes past the boulders or the horses riding upon the MTB trails for that matter.  And there is no plans to change that.

Purpose of my comment is to suggest that we avoid attempting to create a hierarchy of recreational land users upon which some can and some cannot use the land.  That's not a productive route to take this down.  It pits 1x group against the other.

MTB'ing has exploded.  MTB's have become massively more capable in almost every measurable way.  eMTBs will likely cannibalize traditional bikes in the next 20 years (if not sooner).  Modern MTB's are machines that can be ridden in all conditions, all year round and on almost all terrain.  AND ... MTB'ers are a fantastic source of income for the local areas that invest in MTB'ing - just look at what they've done for Innerleithen.  My advice would be not to chastise MTB'ers .. but embrace them.  Let them (help them even!) build their trails in appropriate spaces and watch as they all turn up at the wknd ready to pay to ride and/or pay for uplift and/or funnel their money into the local communities (MTB'ers need feeding!).

Innerleithen, for those unfamiliar with it, was basically put back on the map because of MTB'ers.  I was there last Friday and it was heaving.  It is particularly famous for the Enduro World Series events held there and across the road at the Golfie.

Perhaps a chit chat with the team at PeakDistrictMTB might be fruitfull:  https://peakdistrictmtb.org/about-us/aims-and-objectives-of-peak-district-m...

Outdoor users are not meant to be against one another.  One team - one dream. 

[1]  https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/

Post edited at 13:18
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