UKH

What exactly is the law with regards to cyclists having a bell to warn pedestrians?

Cycling through an unlit park, on a cycle lane, came up behind a jogger, the usual shouts of "excuse me, coming past" went unheeded, the fact that the cycleway was now bathed in the light from my headlight also went unnoticed so when I went to pass I scared the beejesus out of the erapod wearing jogger who then started mouthing off that I didn't have a bell and that it was the law.

What exactly is the law about having a bell?

In reply to subtle:

Perhaps something like the law about running in a cycleway unable to hear approaching vehicles?

In reply to subtle:

Or, to flip your question - what is the law about running in cycle lanes (whilst blissfully unaware of your surroundings)?

To actually answer it - bikes have to be sold with bells, but they do not need to be fitted/used. 

In reply to subtle:

I don’t think that regulation applies any more. However there is notional advice that pedestrians have priority, but I think that’s probably part of sensible defensive riding anyway. It’s probable that due care and attention means slowing down/stopping to get past. Lots of people don’t, but it’s got me through decades of cycling without incident. Pedestrians may be hard of hearing, and or have compromised sight which you simply can’t know when approaching them. 

In reply to subtle:

There was a bell fitted on my bike when I bought it and regard it as my obligation to use it when there are people walking about anywhere near my path.   Just as in skiing the faster moving party is responsible for the safety of people being passed

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

Well said and spot on.

In reply to subtle:

I used to be a bit hesitant to use a bell when approaching people as it feel a bit rude as if you are demanding they get out you way. So I would slow down and politely call "excuse me".

At one point I was getting really annoyed with people stopped all over the cycle way I decided to try the bell approach and it was amazing, people were flinging themselves aside like there was a train coming through. All very odd. I do say thanks as I pass .

In reply to subtle:

Next time, use this: https://www.airzound.co.uk/ 

(OK, I don't actually condone using this on unsuspecting pedestrians...)

In reply to wercat:

Don't think that's true. It's the uphill skier that gives way is it not?

In reply to gethin_allen:

That's what I tend to do and one time some lady really didn't take kindly to it, which I found very odd. I slowed right down and went "excuse me" and she started ranting how I should be using a bell etc. while the only reason I did not ring that bell was that I thought it would be impolite as she has exactly as much of a right being on that path than I. I'm still not sure which is the most polite way of doing it to be honest.

In reply to gethin_allen:

We have quite a few shared ped/bike paths round my way. Over the years I've found that when coming up behind people on foot taking up most of the path, ringing a bell makes them behave unpredictably, jumping this way and that or stopping in their tracks - al of which makes collision more likely. Instead, a cheerful polite call "coming past on your left", or whatever, usually has the desired effect.

But the earlier point about the hard of hearing also applies, so always be prepared to slow down or stop. I have less sympathy for the earbud wearers, even if they're listening to life-enhancing podcasts

In reply to subtle:

If "excuse me, coming past" didn't work then neither would a bell. 

On my commute, much like gethin_allen I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

There isn't an actual law about having and using a bell just one of those angry people laws.

In reply to subtle:

I find that lots of people seem to perceive the use of a bell as quite aggressive, rather than simply an audible sign of one's presence. Certainly a quick, "Thank you" is warranted if people move or rein the dogs in. Headphone users are a pain.

In reply to paul_in_cumbria:

How does a bell improve the situation in the OP if it's anything less than an air horn?

Personally I slow down and give a polite shout of "Good Afternoon/ Morning/ Evening" and carry on, the bell that came with my bike was pathetic anyway so I removed it.

In reply to subtle:

I don't have a bell on my mountain bike, but when I overtake cyclists/pedestrians on the cycle paths path to the woods I shout 'DING DING.'

People notice and often smile

In reply to subtle:

I believe the law is that to sell a bicycle new below a certain price (it's a few grand, basically separating bikes you will pootle around town on from super-lightweight expensive road bikes) a bell must be fitted on sale.  However, you can remove it if you want.

Personally I'd like to see a bell of decent specification (or an equally loud alternative like an air-horn) mandatory for use on a public highway.  The Dutch style "crown bells" that make the traditional "rrring-rrring" sound work well, the cheapo "ping" ones are pointless.

In reply to thepodge:

The thing is that it does - a proper loud bell says "bicycle" like nothing else[1], someone talking or shouting is just background noise in a busy urban setting and may just be ignored.

[1] OK, a *really* loud bell says "tram" other than in Manchester where you get a friendly toot[2] or a loud scream depending how close you got...but you know what I mean

[2] Useless factoid, these noises just come from a speaker and were recorded from the old trams which did have air-horns for them.  Same with the "bell" on the newer Croydon trams.

In reply to crayefish:

Not a Lesley Philips "I say, Ding Dong" ?

In reply to subtle:

I have been told off for startling people by using my bell. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. I take the slow down, ring my bell and say thank you, regardless of the abuse I sometimes get (normally from dog walkers with headphones on). Most of the time everything's fine, people are generally nice.

It would be good if, in Manchester, there was the attitude that cyclelanes are for bikes, not pedestrians, a bit like Copenhagen, as I often find pedestrians step out in front of me totally oblivious.

In reply to subtle:

When I got my new road bike a while back it came with a little box fully of very cheap reflectors and a tiny bell in order to tick the boxes but they were never fitted. 

I find it frustrating riding on cycle paths as people can't see you so I tend to use my free hub sound to let people know I'm behind them. If that doesn't work I'll eventually have to either say something or just slip past.

I find it odd how shocked people are that a cyclist is behind them, they may have only just noticed me but surely they realise I've seen them for the last few hundred meters as I've approached and have long since slowed down. They sometimes dart out the way as if I'm a train going full speed.

In reply to subtle:

If it’s in a park, it’s highly likely that you are on a path that can be cycled on, unless it’s a track which is separate from the pavement. A ‘cycle lane’ is a lane in a road that’s marked out to separate it from the car lane. 
 

It’s now law that a bell must be fitted to a bike when you sell it. It’s not against the law to take it off, but not sure why you would. 
 

In reply to GrahamD:

Presumably depends on the person you're passing

In reply to subtle:

The Highway code does not stipulate that you must use a bell but you should be letting other road users know you are there when necessary.  Of course, there are many cyclist/pedestrian encounters that do not occur on the highway and so common sense and occasional landowner codes of practice apply.

From my experience of commuting on a canal towpath for many years, a good quality loud bell is essential (I use a Rockbros vintage).  When is see a pedestrian in the distance, I give 2 firm tings when I am about 40-50m away.  If I need the person or group to do something, and I've seen no movement or acknowledgement, I give another 2 tings at about 10m away and slow down followed by "bike on your right".  Most of the time, there is acknowledgement after the first 2 tings with a step to the side, a raised hand or grabbing Fido's collar.  If the pedestrian is already quite well to one side, my 10m ting will just be a light one so as not to startle.

I gave up getting angry about the various behaviours on shared use paths a long time ago as I've no more right to do what I'm doing as anyone else is doing their thing.  I might give a tut to truly inconsiderate people but I (now) rarely let it ruin my own enjoyment.  And importantly, I am quite prepared to slow down for any situation up ahead.

This film is a humourous take on the the different pedestrian reactions cyclists encounter: youtube.com/watch?v=dehop4T13Uk&

In reply to GrahamD:

If I start saying that, dressed in lycra, I might attract the wrong sort of attention!  🤣

In reply to gethin_allen:

Same here - I'm sure I used to get more abuse for ringing a bell, so I stopped using it.

None of my bikes have a bell fitted. The bell for the last bike I bought, which is a dedicated off-road race bike, was in the bag of paperwork, along with the reflectors, which are also a legal requirement for sale!

In reply to subtle:

MrsD fitted the 'cheap and nasty ting-ting' bell that came with her triathlon race bike to her trail bike and its remarkably effective.  I'm regretting binning ones from my bike purchases.

In reply to subtle:

Last time I commuted to work by bike I used a shared path, partly funded by money aimed to improve cycling infrastructure but very popular with people walking to work/school. I used a bell regularly but sometimes  got abuse for using it! No winning sometimes.

In reply to Neil Williams:

Those tram toots in Mcr are just great. I love them, and would certainly have one on my bike if available. 

I don't have a bell on my bikes because like many others above I find them a bit aggressive. I don't ride on shared bike lanes, but there are plenty of people walking on many of the narrow roads I ride on. If they're travelling in my direction I always give them a call. "Hello, bike behind you" is the norm. More often than not peds thank you or acknowledge with a wave.

However, when I'm the ped I am often perturbed by the number of cyclists who come up behind with no warning at all, which on a quiet narrow road where we're walking 2 abreast is highly dangerous for all concerned. Is shouting a warning or ringing a bell just another thing that's not cool as ordained by the cycling fashion victims? PS I have cycled since I was 6, been a club member, a time triallist and tourist since then, so please don't call me a bad tempered non cyclist.

In reply to Rog Wilko:

As a slight aside, I actually think it should be mandatory for cars etc to have two levels of horn.  I think it would reduce road rage to have a friendly "toot toot, just so you know, I'm here" separate from the more aggressive "you're going to die" horn.  (The trams can make a heck of a scream if you're about to be run over by them).

Oddly, I don't think they are, and people will pick up on them (because they are distinctive) if rung from a long way back, whereas in my experience they won't pick up on a shout until you're quite close because it's just standard town background noise.

In reply to TheGeneralist:

well I was speaking in a restricted sense about overtaking slower skiers of the same ilk

In reply to LastBoyScout:

I can honestly say that all I've ever got from "ringing my bell" ignoring innuendo is a friendly wave or nod of acknowledgement as well as relief that no one is going to wander into my path

In reply to Neil Williams:

You obviously need to learn how to play your current horn

In reply to subtle:

You can't win. On the old disused railway track (now a cycleway) I used to say a loud "good morning" when coming up behind someone, followed by a "thank you" as I go past. Several people said words to the effect of "for god's sake get a bell!". So I got a bell. Now people say something like "your bell isn't loud enough!".

I'm now considering a loud horn used by diesel locomotives, accompanied by the soundtrack of extremely fast approaching train.

In reply to AllanMac:

 

I think some people just want to complain about something. My son is currently directing traffic in a busy car park at the weekends. This weekend someone returning to their car complained that the car next to them was parked too close and they wouldn’t be able to get out of their space. Strangely enough they drove straight out with no problems - and the lady complaining wasn’t even the driver. Go figure. 
 

But as Neil says, ring your bell far enough away to give them good warning and most people are fine, and if they don’t react ‘because it’s not loud enough’ then slow more and ring again. I don’t get drawn into arguments and just always say “Thank you” as I pass. Regardless of their attitude, I have no idea what else is going on in their heads. 
 

In reply to subtle:

When riding with my eldest pedestrians are alerted to our presence by me saying "Ring your bell now H, don't get right up behind them...Bell Henry...BELL!  Thanks"  He's getting the hang of it.  As others have said always expect them to be earbud wearing and oblivious, and expect the dog to canter across the path or the kid to break the wrong way.

In reply to gethin_allen:

I too felt the bell was impolite but it does work better.

Pedestrians apologise for being in my way even when they have just as much or more right to be there than I (cyclist) do.

In reply to subtle:

The problem with a bell is it gives no instruction as to which way you would like the pedestrian to move, so they jump and act unpredictably.

I slow right down, give a cheery hello or excuse me and tell them which side I intend to pass (the side which they are not walking on already!). Or if a group, I ask nicely if I can please nip past.

There is one lady who moans at me quite often for my lack of bell, most other people give a wave or smile or an occasional "thanks for letting me know".

Being teeny and dressed in many colours probably helps me to look less intimating which might soften people's attitudes?

In reply to subtle:

Start ringing a bell way back works, but you need a loud bell. Most of the runners with earbuds I come across keep to the side - I sometimes scare the sh!t out of them as I sweep past though.

We've all just got to rub along together on these shared paths and trails.

In reply to crayefish:

I also go ding when necessary, and get a similar reaction. Mostly I just slow down though, being a lazy wotsit.

Alpine mate of mine used to fly with an airhorn somewhat less technical than Jamie's when he took his tandem out in the summer and needed to alert dumb tourists. He said it worked fine, and usually had a look of grim satisfaction on his face while telling the story.

In reply to blurty:

which is all very well if a significant proportion of the population weren't offended by the very existence of a cyclist.

In reply to thepodge:

I'm not so sure. I think a bell is more audible through earphones and is also a distinct sound that you know means there's a cyclist around. I noticed this when I started running on a towpath and it prompted me to stick a bell on my commuter bike. The key thing is to a) use it early so that people have a chance to look round and figure out where you are and if they need to do anything and b) to not use it as an excuse to bulldoze pedestrians, as though ringing it gives you a magical right if way (not saying you, or most cyclists, do btw, these are just general comments).

In reply to climbingpixie:

I give a cheery hello and slow down and work my way around the pedestrians. 

In reply to subtle: Bells, polite hellos, nothing really works, some people tell you to F off or don’t move or skulk slowly out of the way ( in a cycle path) but one day with new brake blocks that screeched I suddenly found something that worked, people would throw themselves out of the way, rather sad.  All these rules about how you treat people or behave boil down to, don’t be a ****.

It’s not hard really is it?  Or is it?

Cheers

Toby

In reply to Alkis:

Yes, I used to think it a bit rude to ring a bell and used to speak to people, but on more than one occassion got a lecture about needing to use a bell.....never had any complaints about using a bell, but do worry about the unpredictable way some people jump...I someting ring and say something like passing on your right, or there's three of us....

In reply to HardenClimber:

That's what I like about the "ting ting" bell MrsD has on her trail bike.  On quiet trails it's very audible but its tone just isn't aggressive. 

In reply to subtle:

Best getting a gas aerosol horn and use plastic ties to attach to your handle bars. Works every time. Man do they shift out the road. Headphones no matter.

In reply to GrahamD:

surely Terry Thomas!!??

In reply to JMarkW:

I keep switching between LP and TT.  Bugger, I'm going to have to do some mere definitive research.

In reply to JMarkW:

Surprisingly, looks like TT or LP are valid answers !

In reply to GrahamD:

Excellent news!

In reply to blurty:

Thankfully not literally.

In reply to blurty:

Yes, this happens when I run past people nevermind cycling! I don't have a bell for running, so scuffing my feet works but not for the earbud wearers. I used to cough but these days it's frowned upon. Though I suppose it would be effective in clearing the way 😀

In reply to subtle:

I’ve often wondered if the phenomenon of folk playing music from speakers whilst cycling through parks etc is a less controversial way of alerting folk to your presence. Anyone ever done that?

In reply to subtle:

The law in cycling is that the bell is the first thing to be removed to save weight..

In reply to WaterMonkey:

Also to go are reflecting wheel devices, plastic behind cassette, then you can start to spend, spend and spend on saving grams but remember to save some money for coffee and full breakfast en route.

In reply to girlymonkey:

I use the bell as soon as I think I'm within hearing distance of even quite old folks sometimes (I ring early and repeat until received) and generally they have time to look round and see where I am and act appropriately.  No warning works well if it sounds too close.  The worst are straggling groups from the campsites in the lakes but sound early and it's fine.  If I see walkers when I'm driving I slow down earlier than strict safety required to show them I've seen them.  I know this is a good thing as I walk around country roads here with no footpath and the difference it makes is profound.

In reply to WaterMonkey:

body weight removal is more effective!

In reply to wercat:

You spend so much on lighter

components you can't afford the full breakfast....

In reply to subtle:

I've got knog bells on my bikes (apart from the Brompton, where I've kept the original). However, I find bells get ignored just as much as a polite shout out. I had one 'lady' on my commute who, when I rang my bell from about 20m away, launched into an anti-cyclist tirade. What can you do eh?

N

In reply to subtle:

When I don't use a bell, I get abuse shouted at me. When I do use a bell, I also get abuse shouted at me. You can't win as a cyclist. But, at least pedestrians don't think they have a god-given right to try and kill you... usually, anyway.

In reply to wercat:

I cycle with UKC active on my phone, the hot air ...

In reply to Bacon Butty:

you can't beat the appliance of science!