/ Cycling and Covid-19

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Lee Proctor 22 Mar 2020

Are you in favour of riding outside alone during the current crisis or a complete lockdown and staying indoors on the turbo as is currently the state of play in France, Spain and Italy.

in-favour of being able to ride outdoors on your own - LIKE

in-favour of a total lockdown, no outdoor riding at all but smashing it on Zwift - DISLIKE

id be interested to see people’s views- thanks!

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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

Interested in their view or interested in justifying a position? Views shouldn't come into. And this has been done on the climbing/Corona Virus thread. Lot of people have now decided maybe not going out is the best course of action. Take this as a dislike from me.

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Al Randall 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

I would imagine that road cycling is probably safer than it has been for decades so low risk. The risk of catching/spreading the virus, almost non existent. The risk of becoming a pariah and social outcast, very high. It's the latter that would give me pause for thought although the logic says it should be OK. Maybe someone will come on and say why it, not OK. I would be interested to see the reasoning.

Al

Post edited at 16:42
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Lee Proctor 22 Mar 2020

> Interested in their view or interested in justifying a position? Views shouldn't come into. 

 

I find your response interesting and like I said I’m interested in people’s response to my post. Nothing more nothing less.

Thanks for your feedback

Post edited at 16:47
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featuresforfeet 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Al Randall:

> The risk of catching/spreading the virus, almost non existent

I presume that is the case but if so why? Because the virus is dispersed so quickly?

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MG 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Al Randall:

As with a lot of activities, think about what happens if there is an accident - NHS resources used up. At least take a lot mkre  are than normal, I would suggest. 

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Daniel Joder 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

As a cyclist myself, I would love to go for a nice long ride. But, what if I slide out on that slippery curve and then require medical attention? I would be taking away valuable medical resources, personnel, a bed, etc from those who really need care. Also, maybe I’m a carrier and don’t know it... I could infect others at hospital... or I could get infected there. This, too, shall pass—eventually. So for now, I’ll just walk up and down the fire stairs in our 16-floor apartment building (in lockdown—marooned—in Argentina awaiting an opportunity to return to our residence Spain).

(Even fire stairs have their risks, I suppose.)

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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Al Randall:

> I would imagine that road cycling is probably safer than it has been for decades so low risk. The risk of catching/spreading the virus, almost non existent. The risk of becoming a pariah and social outcast, very high. It's the latter that would give me pause for thought although the logic says it should be OK. Maybe someone will come on and say why it, not OK. I would be interested to see the reasoning.

> Al

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/rock_talk/is_climbing_banned-717196

Have a read through this. Starts with lots of climbers saying I'm going to go climbing still. Justify it with years experience, low risk if done properly etc. All valid. I think what swayed it and fair play to the people that changed their minds, was the rescue off Main Wall. Big operation - MRT, helo etc. 

My reasons are buried in there somewhere but simply, the hospitals can't cope. Registration of students rushed through, not enough nurses to operate the ventilators, not enough of them (vents) anyway, staff haven't got PPE, staff aren't being tested quickly enough, lack of ICU capability. 

I get the compulsion to go out, everyone can make a claim. Please don't.

Post edited at 16:53
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robert-hutton 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

Seems like a lot of new bikes out on the road today.

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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

> I find your response interesting and like I said I’m interested in people’s response to my post. Nothing more nothing less.

> Thanks for your feedback

Roger that, and sorry if it was hostile. The government's lack of output and clear message is harrowing. They've been nothing but reactive and behind the curve on this.

https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest (If this doesn't work just Google FT corona graph).

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Yanis Nayu 22 Mar 2020
In reply to MG:

Have you stopped driving?

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Al Randall 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

> I get the compulsion to go out, everyone can make a claim. Please don't.

I'm not.  This is a just a discussion.  I don't even cycle and I've been unable to climb for some considerable time. I've lost my mojo and have very little desire to start climbing again.

Al

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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

> Have you stopped driving?

Well hasn't everyone what with the advice being no non-essential travel? 

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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Al Randall:

> I'm not.  This is a just a discussion.  I don't even cycle and I've been unable to climb for some considerable time. I've lost my mojo and have very little desire to start climbing again.

> Al

Understood. Stay sane.

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Al Randall 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

> Understood. Stay sane.

That's going to prove challenging as I will probably spend more time on here and other forums than I normally would.

Al

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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Al Randall:

> That's going to prove challenging as I will probably spend more time on here and other forums than I normally would.

> Al

Yeah, I thought I was done after the Brexit stuff!

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summo 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

Whilst it's probably at the bottom end of the risk spectrum, I'd be quite concerned about my cycling performance without coffee and cake stops. At least with zwift, cake breaks are easily solved. 

I'll probably need to buy a fan, static cycling in anything other than 10degrees or less is a very warm business. 

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MG 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

Yes

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Dogwatch 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Al Randall:

>The risk of becoming a pariah and social outcast, very high.

Really? That's an awful lot of pariahs riding past my house every day then.

The advice seems to be group rides are out but individual riding is OK e.g. https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/coronavirus-qa-it-safe-cycle

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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Dogwatch:

> >The risk of becoming a pariah and social outcast, very high.

> Really? That's an awful lot of pariahs riding past my house every day then.

> The advice seems to be group rides are out but individual riding is OK e.g. https://www.cyclinguk.org/article/coronavirus-qa-it-safe-cycle

Check the date. There's an update on the government website. Essential travel only. 

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kevin stephens 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

I've just come back from my first ride in months, county lanes and hills close to home, the reason I've not been out for a while have been various excuses to do with work, weather etc.  It was brilliant.  I was pleased to not be so slow on my local loop which is down to sessions on Trainer Road over winter which I've taken to due to the work and weather excuses.  I'm now really looking forward to getting out more regularly, particularly with Corvid-19 caused reduced work days.  Most of my riding is solitary around the Peak District (I live on North site of Sheffield). 

My main reason for getting and using the smart turbo was to give myself a bit of a head start for getting out on my local loops and hills, which has been beneficial.  If I was not allowed to cycle outside I may lose some of the motivation for turbo training.

Since moving over from Lancashire I've noticed there don't seem to be so many large club ride groups around Sheffield, it's mostly solitary cyclists or small groups of maybe 2 to 4 people.  This may be just down to the hillier terrain around here?

With Sheffield being such a cycling centric city I don't see any ban on cycling being effective, realistic or enforceable - people will go out anyway.  A restriction on large groups may make more sense and be more practicable - I suspect some clubs my be doing this voluntarily anyway? 

A major issue for me, and I suspect others is closure of cafes which I've found essential refuelling cappuccino and cake stops for longer rides.  I'll have to take food with me as I get fitter during the spring.

I see road cycling for me as practically zero accident risk in view of the roads I use so I'm not concerned about being an unexpected demand on the NHS.  In contrast my local woods Greno and Wharncliffe have been rammed with downhill mountain bikers this weekend - NOT a zero accident risk.

Post edited at 17:50
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Glyno 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Daniel Joder:

> As a cyclist myself, I would love to go for a nice long ride. But, what if I slide out on that slippery curve and then require medical attention? I would be taking away valuable medical resources, personnel, a bed, etc from those who really need care.

Isn't it a known fact that most accidents occur in the home?

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Dogwatch 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

> Check the date. There's an update on the government website. Essential travel only. 

Local cycling is not travel. It's exercise.

Put the bike on the car, drive somewhere and cycle, that's travel.

Post edited at 18:12
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Ciro 22 Mar 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

> With Sheffield being such a cycling centric city I don't see any ban on cycling being effective, realistic or enforceable - people will go out anyway.  A restriction on large groups may make more sense and be more practicable - I suspect some clubs my be doing this voluntarily anyway? 

Hopefully we'll soon be dishing out £3000 fines like in Spain - a few people getting hit with the price of a decent road none for their rice should cut out out in jig time.

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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Dogwatch:

> It's not travel. It's exercise.

Which has a potential for bad outcomes if you spill. The NHS is going to be overwhelmed. Last thing they need is another group of people who maybe could not have gone out for a bicycle ride. 

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angry pirate 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

I'm currently self isolating with the family so not hitting the bike at the mo but once I'm back at work ( I'm a teacher so will be on the rota to cover other key workers) I'll be having to choose between biking to work or getting the train. On the balance of probability, unless an antibody test is available, I'll be safer going by bike just in case we've overreacted to the sniffles.

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Dogwatch 22 Mar 2020

> Which has a potential for bad outcomes if you spill. 

Not at the speed I cycle.

There is a good argument for cutting risk activities to avoid potential load on the NHS. I don't think a gentle bike ride around my local lanes is a risk activity. Going out to exercise is explicitly within government guidelines provided social isolation is maintained.

Post edited at 18:27
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spenser 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

I plan on taking my mountain bike out on the disused railway track behind my house, I think it winds up being 8 miles there and back so nothing major, it is 95% in a straight line.

I WON'T be putting in my van and driving anywhere or riding anything like the Belper Chevin.

I've just spent the weekend revarnishing my desk and then rebuilding it so that I am ready to work from home as required from next week onwards, probably more risk involved in that given that I was using a cordless drill at points yesterday.

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kevin stephens 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Ciro:

If I’ve guessed your typo are you suggesting that solitary road cyclists on empty roads should be fined the value of a new road bike?

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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Dogwatch:

> Not at the speed I cycle.

> There is a good argument for cutting risk activities to avoid potential load on the NHS. I don't think a gentle bike ride around my local lanes is a risk activity. Going out to exercise is explicitly within government guidelines provides social isolation is maintained.

Absolutely, exercise and keep a distance. As for not overwhelming the NHS, it's started already. The argument for cutting risk really shouldn't be a consideration. Good luck to you, I mean it.

But there are emergency registrations of student nurses. There's been a call for retired staff to come out of retirement. They're asking for anyone with engineering skills to bodge up ventilators (no trained staff to operate them though). Because they are waiting for a shit storm. Maybe not adding to the problem is the right thing to do. 

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gethin_allen 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

> Which has a potential for bad outcomes if you spill. The NHS is going to be overwhelmed. Last thing they need is another group of people who maybe could not have gone out for a bicycle ride. 

If you consider that with isolation often comes mental health issues and there have been warnings that domestic violence will increase due to isolation. We are being told that we should try to stay fit, and cycling is overall a very safe pastime (more so without cars).

The risk of spreading this virus or complicating the job of the emergency services is low. There's more likelihood of their time being taken up by drunk depressed people beating eachother up or self harming. And loads of people near me are taking the chance to do DIY; someone near me is demolishing their garage (nothing to go wrong there).

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Lord_ash2000 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

> Check the date. There's an update on the government website. Essential travel only. 

So when I do a loop from my house and back, where am I traveling to exactly? The reasons for travel restrictions are to stop infected people going from one place to another and spreading it, while you're actually out on the road and in motion your chance of infection/infecting is basically zero.

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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to gethin_allen:

> If you consider that with isolation often comes mental health issues and there have been warnings that domestic violence will increase due to isolation. We are being told that we should try to stay fit, and cycling is overall a very safe pastime (more so without cars).

> The risk of spreading this virus or complicating the job of the emergency services is low. There's more likelihood of their time being taken up by drunk depressed people beating eachother up or self harming. And loads of people near me are taking the chance to do DIY; someone near me is demolishing their garage (nothing to go wrong there).

So lot of false equivalence going on here. Yes all these things are a potential. And indeed there is a spectrum. You can make a choice and not go out to smash that 100km loop. Stay local, enjoy the fresh air, minimise the risk. Don't think you won't become a problem. People are the problem and you are people.

Sincerely, stay sane and safe. 

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nufkin 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

>  Maybe not adding to the problem is the right thing to do.

Is there not a middle ground? Go for a ride, but by yourself (if there is indeed a risk of passing anything on in a group ride, which I have to say seems fairly unlikely), cut out the hairy descents and choose a more mild circuit. 
There might be an argument for a ban on the basis of preventing extra loading to the health service, but I think it's fairly tenuous, and if you extend that logic then you might also argue people shouldn't cook (or do various other things that pass the time in confinement). 
Better, I think, to present people with the problem and some possible solutions/workarounds and let them feel that they are helping even as they try to cope themselves, rather than issuing blanket orders and making them resentful and uncooperative

I might also add, only a little flippantly, that with much less car traffic on the roads cycling is made considerably safer

Post edited at 18:54
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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

> So when I do a loop from my house and back, where am I traveling to exactly? The reasons for travel restrictions are to stop infected people going from one place to another and spreading it, while you're actually out on the road and in motion your chance of infection/infecting is basically zero.

We've done this on the climbing thread. Accident = hospital. Hospital has no capacity. 

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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to nufkin:

> Is there not a middle ground? Go for a ride, but by yourself (if there is indeed a risk of passing anything on in a group ride, which I have to say seems fairly unlikely), cut out the hairy descents and choose a more mild circuit. 

> There might be an argument for a ban on the basis of preventing extra loading to the health service, but I think it's fairly tenuous, and if you extend that logic then you might also argue people shouldn't cook (or do various other things that pass the time in confinement). 

> Better, I think, to present people with the problem and some possible solutions/workarounds and let them feel that they are helping even as they try to cope themselves, rather than issuing blanket orders and making them resentful and uncooperative

There is a solution within the guidelines as per the government. Stay in. No unnecessary travel. Social distance. Wash your hands. Exercise. Now isn't the time to panic but it could be the time for an over-reaction, which is a hell of a better option to draw back from. 

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Marek 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

> Check the date. There's an update on the government website. Essential travel only. 

Yes, checked gov.uk just now.

Official advice is "essential travel only if using public transport". The official advice says nothing about private travel (walking, cycling, car...) other than encouraging exercise. So walking and cycling are positively encouraged (as long as you comply with the social distancing guidelines, so avoid honey-pots).

The rest is personal opinion, not government advice.

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JLS 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

I was out today. Unfortunately, the local cycle path along the river which I was hoping to do 1hr20 out and back was really pretty busy with people out enjoying the sun. So much so I did the return leg on the road which from a social distancing point of view was far better but comes with the dangers of riding in traffic or be it fairly light traffic today.

i think the riverside route isn’t currently viable at weekends while going for a walk or cycle is one of the limited activities open to people. I expect I’ll be fine to do it week day evenings but I think my weekend riding might be limited to hill laps on a local hill if I want to avoid the open road and crowded cycle paths.

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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Marek:

> Yes, checked gov.uk just now.

> Official advice is "essential travel only if using public transport". The official advice says nothing about private travel (walking, cycling, car...) other than encouraging exercise. So walking and cycling are positively encouraged (as long as you comply with the social distancing guidelines, so avoid honey-pots).

> The rest is personal opinion, not government advice.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-announces-further-measures-on-social-distancing

Third bullet point in the first box:

"Public urged to stay at home and limit all but essential travel - people who can work from home should do so."

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Yanis Nayu 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

I’ve cycled about 24000 miles in the past 3 years without having an accident - road and criterium races, fast group rides, 200 mile weeks in the winter with 3 rides a week in the dark, busy roads.  I think the benefit of cycling alone in the country air on quiet roads outweighs the small amount of risk. 
 

Cycle clubs have put group rides on hold and there’s a lot of social pressure to comply. 

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Wanderer100 22 Mar 2020
In reply to robert-hutton:

I went for a run instead of a cycle this afternoon. I've never seen so many Cyclists out on the back lanes. Literally dozens of them. I don't doubt the weather played a part as well as becoming peoples new activity in light of current work restrictions. I will carry on solo cycling, commuting and training, for as long as I possibly can.

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girlymonkey 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

I stayed at home yesterday and chopped wood. I hit my leg pretty hard with the hatchet. Staying at home is pretty dangerous!

The guidelines to do no unnecessary travel is to stop people moving the virus more around the country. It's not about no one being on the road. Cycling to the supermarket to get my essential supplies is more risky than a wee spin on a traffic free local cycle path. Just don't ride like an eejit and think about route choice. 

Fresh air and exercise are absolutely necessary, particularly when there is a respiratory virus going around. Getting out of breath builds fitness, which I presume my body will need if I contract it. The sunshine, fresh air, and mental break from internet forums has to make a huge difference to us actually sticking to the distancing and isolating and to productivity for those still able to work.

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Wanderer100 22 Mar 2020
In reply to girlymonkey:

Well said!

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Hugo First 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

I’m utterly convinced hospitals will see an increase in admissions for gardening accidents as things are!

i went for a spin last night, waited till 8pm, did about 80k on a-roads I wouldn’t normally entertain, but they were utterly empty. Apart from being dark it was as safe as I’ve possibly ever felt on a bike due to total lack of traffic.

then spent today gardening: pruning, sawing, digging, forking etc, and felt way more conscious of causing myself a mishap that out on the iron. 

i’m not into zwift etc so that rules that out, but whilst it’s allowed, I’ll continue to ride and run in as considerate manner as possible.

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Marek 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

> Third bullet point in the first box:

> "Public urged to stay at home and limit all but essential travel - people who can work from home should do so."

I believe the detailed official guidelines (as opposed to short-form press releases for journalists) are here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/covid-19-guidance-on-social-distancing-and-for-vulnerable-people

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Yanis Nayu 22 Mar 2020
In reply to girlymonkey:

Said it better than I could. 

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gethin_allen 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

Can you honestly not see the connection between being told to exercise alone and going for a quiet ride?

Mental health wellbeing and exercise.

Mental health and domestic violence.

Mental health and alcohol abuse.

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kevin stephens 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

The key point about road cycling for fitness or fun is that you don't actually go anywhere, other than home to home.  Even less so now that the cafes are shut

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angry pirate 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

This is the dilemma I'm faced with. Do I:

 a) take the train to work and risk becoming infected/ infecting others (assuming my current bug isn't the big one); or b) ride to work on emptyish roads managing to socially distance from others much more effectively. 

Assuming I'm suddenly going to start having nasty accidents which will strain the NHS when I can manage this trip daily without ending up under the wheels of a car seems a flawed argument. I can see that taking on new higher-risk activities (climbing for example) is selfish but my daily commute won't have changed and probably isn't much more dangerous than driving on the roads I'll be on as the morning commuter traffic will have reduced significantly.

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Dave the Rave 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

Have t ridden my bike for a while and given the clear roads I promised myself that I would this weekend.

Have I feck! Ran out of time and was a little concerned about falling off. 
 

My route is quiet lanes and woods and I may venture out tomorrow. Nothing daft just a tootle.

Got in from my walk and our kid had nicked the bike and gone for a ride, no helmet , nowt. 

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kevin stephens 22 Mar 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

The only people coming (well) within 6 ft of me on my ride were separated by an empty passenger seat and a car door

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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to gethin_allen:

> Can you honestly not see the connection between being told to exercise alone and going for a quiet ride?

> Mental health wellbeing and exercise.

> Mental health and domestic violence.

> Mental health and alcohol abuse.

You're connecting things I haven't said. Exercise is paramount, absolutely. But it's worth noting what 'healthy' exercise is - 30 mins to get you out of breath.

There will undoubtedly be massive issues after this because of the containment. It's why naval submariners and astronauts are psych screened. We don't have that luxury.

The biggest threat is not only the virus itself but the very real threat of our health system failing. No one goes out to have an accident, but you're talking to someone who has on a few occasions. Hospitalised three times through pushing too hard. Comes with the territory. I'm dialling back on my activities because I want to do the right thing.

Luckily I have a posh turbo. Got the hangboard. Got two kids to drive me insane. Over-reacting is probably not a bad place to go to. Easier to dial back from if I'm wrong. 

Go safe whatever you decide. 

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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to girlymonkey:

> Fresh air and exercise are absolutely necessary, particularly when there is a respiratory virus going around. Getting out of breath builds fitness, which I presume my body will need if I contract it.

Rather perversely you're immune system is lowered immediately after hard exercise. It's why team Sky banned their athletes from shaking hands etc after race stages. Careful who you high-five! 

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Yanis Nayu 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

I’m deliberately not training hard for that reason (and the racing’s cancelled!) 

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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Yanis Nayu:

> I’m deliberately not training hard for that reason (and the racing’s cancelled!) 

I've got the kids all week until this is done. My mind will be pickled so I'll need the phys. Suspect that will amount to lots of Z1 & Z2 stuff on the turbo for a couple of hours as soon as the wife gets back from work! My excuse? She's front line NHS staff so I'm self isolating on the bike! ☺ 

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OwenM 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

Boris, in his press briefing this afternoon actually say that "getting exercise is important, go to the park, just remember social distance yourself." or something like that.

Going for a spin around the back lanes your probably more distant from others than you are in the parks at the moment. I'll be going out cycling and walking in the hills behind my house on my own, unless they put us under house arrest like the French and Spanish. As for "you might have an accident" you're just as likely to get cabin fever and top yourself.    

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Yanis Nayu 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

Best wishes to you and yours. 

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Lord_ash2000 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

> We've done this on the climbing thread. Accident = hospital. Hospital has no capacity. 

A million people stop cycling for a couple of months. Result, handful less A&E visits from injured cyclists.

Also, a handful of extra people who've hurt themselves catching up on DIY, fallen down the stairs trying to get their turbo trainer out the loft, , cut their finger off trying to cook a meal, or self harmed due to depression. 

Basically life carries risk no matter what we do, cycling, especially outside of busy urban areas (commuting) is about as safe a sport as it gets really. As I've said before, there is a fixed rate of injuries that will just happen regardless, by sheer bad luck, stopping people cycling, or climbing isn't going to change that. 

It's a balance at the end of the day, between quality of life and risk, even in these times, you can maybe reduce risk of injury by the smallest fraction by ruining millions of people's lives for 6 months, but is it worth it? In my view simply no. It's why we don't ban people using the 2nd floor of their homes to prevent fall injuries, it would work but it simply isn't worth it.

Want to reduce A&E visits? Focus on people turning up for none serious minor injuries etc. 

Post edited at 22:09
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Stuart (aka brt) 22 Mar 2020
In reply to Lord_ash2000:

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/rocktalk/um__folks__we_need_to_talk_about_this-717331?v=1#x9155556

Statement from BMC rep. 

We disagree pretty much on all of this and I honestly mean you no malice in any of the exchanges we've had. 

Stay sane. 

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fred99 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

A few years ago I saw various figures regarding accident/death rates, and I was astonished at the number of people who died each year FALLING DOWN THEIR OWN STAIRS - it was, if you removed the heart attack figures in the hills - mainly silly buggers going for a hill walk but who've done nothing to get themselves fit enough -  twice that of deaths in climbing/walking/mountaineering combined.

And that doesn't include DIY accidents or domestic violence.

We may be about to see a serious increase in calls to A&E.

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Stuart (aka brt) 23 Mar 2020
In reply to fred99:

This has been dealt with elsewhere. It's not comparing like with like. You have to look at the figures in terms of time engaged in an activity or situation. For sure the home is a dangerous place if you just look at total figures. 

And yes, we should probably take more care around the home. 

Stay sane. 

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Richard Horn 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

> We've done this on the climbing thread. Accident = hospital. Hospital has no capacity. 

See pictures of crowded London Underground trains. If everyone using public transport right now got on a bike = much less people in hospital with COVID-19

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Stuart (aka brt) 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Richard Horn:

> See pictures of crowded London Underground trains. If everyone using public transport right now got on a bike = much less people in hospital with COVID-19

Fair point. There is a difference and distinction though between that travel being essential (my wife used her bike to go to work - NHS clinical staff), and people smashing out 100km loops for fun.

People probably shouldn't use those exceptions to justify a position. There's a huge thread along similar lines about climbing etc. BMC have now asked people not to go out climbing etc explicitly because of accidents and the potential for extra burden on the NHS/emergency services. 

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fred99 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Stuart (aka brt):

> Stay sane. 

I'm trying to, but being one (of the many) people who live alone, going into solitary confinement once work is finished is not helpful - particularly when I (we) haven't committed any crime.

Some of the posters who want us to go behind closed doors and stay there, whilst they are sitting around with their families - having some social interaction at least - need to understand that.

The act of going outside your own doors, particularly when you live, as I do, in a location where you DO NOT have to be (physically) too close to your neighbours when "having a chat", or going for a walk, will help to maintain our sanity.

Oh, and I haven't used public transport in months - there just isn't any around here to use in the first place.

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Stuart (aka brt) 23 Mar 2020
In reply to fred99:

> I'm trying to, but being one (of the many) people who live alone, going into solitary confinement once work is finished is not helpful - particularly when I (we) haven't committed any crime.

> Some of the posters who want us to go behind closed doors and stay there, whilst they are sitting around with their families - having some social interaction at least - need to understand that.

> The act of going outside your own doors, particularly when you live, as I do, in a location where you DO NOT have to be (physically) too close to your neighbours when "having a chat", or going for a walk, will help to maintain our sanity.

> Oh, and I haven't used public transport in months - there just isn't any around here to use in the first place.

I sincerely feel for you.

You can still go out for fresh air and exercise (in spite of my defence of my position I've never advocated against that), keep it local, keep the distance, which you've been doing and that's the right thing to do. These will be essential in the next few weeks.

As for people getting abusive or impolite, the trick for me is to try to imagine that person as worried, scared, vulnerable, whatever it might be. I think we might want to cut everyone some slack. 

Hopefully you can get out for some sun today! 

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In reply to Lee Proctor:

I just bought a new bike, not been on it yet. Bad timing

Luckily I have a wattbike atom which is getting a lot of use. will be sticking to that for now. My friend at work ordered one today...10-12 weeks delivery time!!

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felt 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

What did you get? Wasn't it you talking about the Madone?

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In reply to felt:

Factor o2, yes I looked at quite a few different models, but settled for Factor. Their customer service is off the charts....absolutely incredible. Highly recommend them if you are in the market for a new high end bike. Good value as well for the spec IMO

Post edited at 13:47
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felt 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Never heard of them, but looked them up and I really like the look of those top tubes. I've got all the bikes I need, unfortunately!

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Duncan Bourne 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

I am in favour of being sensible.

Keep away from people don't take unnecessary risks.

Later i shall be taking a quiet walk around the block with my wife for health reasons (seeing as we live in a quiet area)

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kevin stephens 23 Mar 2020
In reply to kevin stephens:

Looking at BikeRadar there is dismay at the number of large club rides still running yesterday

https://forum.bikeradar.com/discussion/13110456/so-how-many-club-runs-have-you-seen-today#latest

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Lee Proctor 23 Mar 2020

Government advice as of 20:30 on 23rd March:

”One form of exercise a day - for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household”

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apwebber 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

I don't think the PM realises how vague that sentence is. A cycle is a little ride around the block, a 20km road trip or mountain biking.

I think there will be a fair few climbers who equate their sport with going for a cycle.

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Lee Proctor 23 Mar 2020

> I don't think the PM realises how vague that sentence is.

In my opinion the whole statement was pretty vague and open to individual interpretation which is not really very helpful!

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birdie num num 23 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

I ride every day, at least 25-30 miles, solitary in the main. It’s a circuit, so local. I think this complies with current requirements. Once things tighten up, it will be the turbo trainer. Or out at midnight. 
I work in a sector that is essential, and rather stressful, so the escape on the bike is a necessary one. Outdoors is best. 

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girlymonkey 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:

I am going to be starting work in a care home. It's 30km away from me. I am looking forward to bike commutes (probably not every day, but likely a couple of times a week). I see it as a perk of the job so if we do get banned from even exercising then I still get to keep fit. 

Selfish? Maybe (it was a factor in taking the job). Do I feel bad about it? Nope!

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Stuart (aka brt) 24 Mar 2020
In reply to girlymonkey:

> I am going to be starting work in a care home. It's 30km away from me. I am looking forward to bike commutes (probably not every day, but likely a couple of times a week). I see it as a perk of the job so if we do get banned from even exercising then I still get to keep fit. 

> Selfish? Maybe (it was a factor in taking the job). Do I feel bad about it? Nope!

Not should you. I don't envy your new job. The cycling will probably keep you sane. 

Good luck. 

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bigbobbyking 24 Mar 2020
In reply to girlymonkey:

> Selfish? Maybe (it was a factor in taking the job). Do I feel bad about it? Nope!

I don't think it's selfish for you to cycle to your essential job! Enjoy it!

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GrahamD 24 Mar 2020
In reply to apwebber:

> I don't think the PM realises how vague that sentence is. A cycle is a little ride around the block, a 20km road trip or mountain biking.

> I think there will be a fair few climbers who equate their sport with going for a cycle.

I think the PM is seriously overestimating the intelligence of the population in that case.

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Jim Hamilton 24 Mar 2020
In reply to apwebber:

> I don't think the PM realises how vague that sentence is. A cycle is a little ride around the block, a 20km road trip or mountain biking.

I don't think it matters what type of cycle it is, the risk has got to be inconsequential compared to all those people crammed in on the tube, or even food shopping.

Post edited at 09:41
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kevin stephens 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor:I’m keeping to no more than 2 hours every other day, the intervening day being my turn for dog walking. I take the view that shorter more intense rides give me good exercise/training without venturing too far from home or taking the piss

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GrahamD 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Daniel Joder:

> As a cyclist myself, I would love to go for a nice long ride. But, what if I slide out on that slippery curve and then require medical attention? 

In that case I suggest you are trying to ride beyond your ability.  Most serious accidents to cyclists and pedestrians are caused by bad driving.  Far safer for the NHS is to minimise car use.

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Enty 24 Mar 2020
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Frank the Husky 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Lee Proctor: I counted 37 cyclists between Barnsley and Glossop today. Most wearing back, some without helmets, most in groups of 3 or 4 and over a dozen on the incredibly dangerous Woodhead Pass. I view them as irresponsible morons. 
 

What is it with cyclists and wearing black? Do they wish to be complicit in their own downfall?

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Neil Williams 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Frank the Husky:

Maybe we should be telling the Police about this kind of thing so they can stop them and issue fines once the relevant legislation is in place.

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Richard Horn 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Frank the Husky:

> What is it with cyclists and wearing black? Do they wish to be complicit in their own downfall?

We're into girls wearing short skirts territory here...

Check out wiggle - it is quite hard to buy kit that isnt black... Not an excuse for hitting a cyclist though, plenty of people buy black cars afterall and expect other people to miss them

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girlymonkey 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Richard Horn:

I have no black cycling kit other than my shoe covers! It is maybe easier for women, but colourful stuff is available if you look for it. 

I just don't wear black ever, I only wear colourful stuff. You start to work out where to get it after a while. Might be easier for women right enough?

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yesbutnobutyesbut 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Frank the Husky:

How the hell did you see them wearing all black ? I reckon there were hundreds more that you missed due to their invisibility cloaks.

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felt 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Richard Horn:

> We're into girls wearing short skirts territory here...

Er, no we're not.

> Check out wiggle - it is quite hard to buy kit that isnt black...

Er, no; https://www.wiggle.co.uk/cycle/jerseys/

Maybe non-black shorts are hard to find, and rightly so , but plenty of fluorescent/colourful tops.

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mondite 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Frank the Husky:

What were you doing on that incredibly dangerous pass?

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Richard Horn 24 Mar 2020
In reply to girlymonkey:

I have to confess I do peruse the cycling kit pages with a tinge of jealousy when comparing the mens and womens offerings - the womens kits are often far more interesting...

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girlymonkey 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Richard Horn:

With it all being lycra, you might well be able to get womens stuff to fit.

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peppermill 24 Mar 2020
In reply to yesbutnobutyesbut:

> How the hell did you see them wearing all black ? I reckon there were hundreds more that you missed due to their invisibility cloaks.

All black and no lights seems to be the dress code during the Glasgow winter.....

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angry pirate 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Frank the Husky:

I'm with you on this tbh. I wear bright coloured kit wherever possible on my bike, except in winter where it all seems to be black albeit with bright flashes of other colours, though I wear a hi-vis windproof gilet with it and my bright orange/hi vis back pack topped off with an orange lid. I also use loads of lights front and back even in daylight which altogether say please don't run me over pretty loudly.

I have had a couple of occurrences when driving when I haven't seen a cyclist until far later than I was comfortable with due to low-level sun, dark clothing, overhanging tree combos which shook me up quite a bit. Brighter clobber and some lights would have been resulted in far cleaner pants on my part!

It's like wearing a helmet or not when climbing. I'm very pro-choice on this but it makes sense to stack the odds in your favour.

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Frank the Husky 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Richard Horn

> Check out wiggle - it is quite hard to buy kit that isnt black.

All my cycling kit is anything but black. It’s not at all hard to find bright kit and that’s a terrible excuse to use!

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kevin stephens 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Frank the Husky:

I fear find that all black kit with a loose fitting hood and carrying a scythe encourages people to keep their distance 

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kevin stephens 24 Mar 2020
In reply to Frank the Husky:

Black shorts or tights and bright colourful too

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