UKH

Saw this today...

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/video-gee-atherton-rides-a-huge-exposed-ridgeli...

Given that there's huge issues with unsanctioned trail building generally across the UK, how the hell does this stuff get the go ahead?

Is the trail still there, can we go ride it?

Does it get out back to as it was before?

Genuinely interested, as a biker and member of a mtb trail organisation. 

There was evidence of trail building activities last time I was up there, maybe 2016-7? So it's not new. 

The athertons own the land

That makes it easier i guess! 

I would still have thought that the level of building they carried out would have been rejected by local authority though. We (trail association) are having to jump through all sorts of hoops just to get permission for relatively small scale land changes (in comparison to what they've done)

If it's private land for private use I don't see why they would need permission for anything - they've just shovelled a bit of dirt around. 

Great vid

You sure its not NR Wales who own the land?

The 650 acre Dyfi Bike Park (https://www.dyfibikepark.co.uk/ on their same land holding) had the necessary planning permissions.

https://www.mbr.co.uk/news/dyfi-bike-park-365647:

Says here: "Dyfi Bike Park has just completed the purchase of the land, which also includes a working sawmill — handy if they want to build north shore. More importantly, it means DBP controls when and how the crop is felled and the park can minimise disruption to the trails."

I wish I could afford a mountain....!

Shovelling a bit of dirt around could be defined as an engineering operation, which would need planning permission. I don’t know if that would apply in this case, but it certainly could.

I seem to remember you previously wanting a much stricter planning system recently.

Great vid, thanks for sharing

Dude - do you have some sort of vendetta?!

How can you possibly link from shovelling some dirt around, to make a path a bike can travel down, with building houses on greenfield land.

No, do you have some kind of paranoia?!

The planning system recognises that significant earth works require planning permission for exactly the same reason new housing building does.

It was hardly significant earth works.

And no, I'm not paranoid, pulling what people say from across threads is unreasonable behaviour (imho). 

Exciting stuff..........but the whole industrialised landscape is a complete mess.

🤣..shovelled a bit of dirt around.

I admire your enthusiasm for the sport but you can see that 'scar' from a distance.

I'm not sure I would advocate constructing runs like that on our hills without a bit of debate.

FWIW the unforested top slopes of Tarren y Gesail are open access land so walkers will have access irrespective of any trail centre works and clutter.  I don't expect its that popular though those bagging 2000 ft tops will do a loop including the top with that of Tarren Hendre via Foel Geifr - I did it once myself (ironically, on a bike!)  Hopefully the hill won't end up in the same state as Cribau above Blaenau Ffestiniog (also access land but outside the National Park).  Here the access stile mysteriously disappeared when the road to the top was built with its locked gate.  On my last visit I was accosted by a young lad driving his load of paying punters to the top for their fix of adrenaline.  Needless to say I pointed out forcefully that locals had been accessing these slopes for generations and would continue to do so.

Thanks for the info..I always think of Wainwright saying 'He never moved a stone when out walking'.

At the same time I do like to visit Trail Centres on my mtb.

We've got to have a balanced approach to developments in these areas that is considerate to all users and maintains the landscape as much as possible.

Yes, you are quite right. In Dyfi especially there is (rightly or wrongly) a history of use for motorsport of all kinds so this could be considered as no big deal

I have no problem with ski centres being used for downhill mtb use - the infrastructure is there, the activity is much the same and jobs are being safeguarded.

Although I much preferred places like Coed y Brenin before they were developed on balance I would support the use of commercial forestry for this sort of use.  I have the highest regard for people like Dafydd Davis who was the first person to envisage and build the trails in that particular forest which was in many ways the first of its kind in the UK.

I do have a bit of an issue when open county and hillsides (especially in protected areas) are developed commercially for the sort of instant gratification that this sort riding gives.

"I do have a bit of an issue when open county and hillsides (especially in protected areas) are developed commercially for the sort of instant gratification that this sort riding gives."

Like where? 

I'm struggling to think of any open country and hillside which has been developed commercially specifically for downhilling? I'm also confused about instant gratification? What an odd thing to say? Does that mean they'd be OK to carry on riding as long as they're not having fun? 

There's a lot of sanctimony in this thread. Are walkers and climbers any less culpable for erosion and path degradation than mtb? Are the hills, paths and forests only for walkers because we were there first? 

Can't we just watch the video and admire it for the ridiculously high standard of riding and ability (and huge balls) it showcases without falling into the tired argument of 'you're different to me and I don't like it' 

Cribau above the Crimea Pass in North Wales for one - together with blatant attempts to stop other access.

What’s this?  Responding to a poster with context from other threads is unreasonable behaviour?

That hasn’t stopped you doing exactly that to another poster in the past.  The irony being you then went on to complain about it.  On the same thread.

One rule for you another for us ey?  Seems hypocritical to me.  That is my opinion and it’s equally valid to yours I’m sure.

https://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/off_belay/itll_all_be_over_by_christmas_2...

That's not commercial or developed specifically for downhill?

So we can all buy a hill and put a dirt track down it without checking with the  local authorities?

I'm not sure

Ha..ha..that tickled me.

As walkers we'll not buy it; but scar the landscape with a multiple of badly eroded paths without checking with the local authorities.

I'm trying to think of Hill/Mountain thats suddenly got popular with loads of people visiting it?

Well, yes?

If i own it, i can do as i please with it, no?

You've also made an assumption that they have not sought permission, although as far as i can tell all they have actually changed on pre exisiting paths and access roads was to make the take off and landings of their jumps a bit more bike friendly.

Are you suggesting everything above the tree line should be limited to walkers and climbers only?

There are VERY few hills out there without paths made by the hand of man, so should everyone be banned from the hills? Sheep and deer make paths so should they be removed too?

Just because someone is using the land for something that doesn't fit your definition of appropriate doesn't make it inappropriate.

Interesting,so you're saying you could build a trading estate on the top of this hill without permission?

I do hope they've got permssion...it would be a bit silly to make a film and put it on YouTube, if not.

Who said it was Inappropriate?

The irony is the Atherton's could have made this for a bit of fun and exposure...similar to Brendon Semenuk's...Get Lost in the Moment.

And then putting the trail in properly and sympathetically to the landscape.

Yes, both commercial and uplift only - better known as part of Antur Stiniog.  If it were not for attempts to exclude other users it would be hard to find fault with it given the supposed economic benefits to a depressed area and the proximity to the quarries.

However Dyfi is within Parc Cenedlaethol Eryri and stricter planning regulations would apply than outside of the Park.  Ownership of land does not give the right to do as one wants even outside of these areas of supposedly increased protection.  We live in a conservation area and were obliged to seek permission for a velux window in the slate roof.

From memory there was a track to the top of Tarren Gesail created by (illegal) motorcyclists.  Obviously its now been much improved so first chance I get I'm off up there with the dirt bike!

The erection of a permanent structure requires planning. Access roads and paths do not.

I'm guessing there would be irate threads on singletrackworld, whatever the equivalent horsey forum is, and probably here about the damage done by inconsiderate dirt bikers and how they are ruining it for everyone.

We all seem to think our use of the land is more deserving and less invasive than users from another sport of activity, but we all have to use it responsibly. If it isn't expressly forbidden, crack on i reckon!

Can't wait to take my tesla powered defender up there. Not sure who will complain. I'm sure the ramblers will be pleased to see it as it's quiet and non polluting. 

I guess this is why the landed gentry can get away with bulldozing tracks to aid grouse/deer massacres in the Cairngorms and elsewhere?

Not a problem, you'll run out of charge before you get there!

Exactly 

You are wrong.  It's quite complex.

https://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/74402/Planning-...

It’s a lot more than “shovelling some dirt around”. However, I’m not making that judgement, I’m merely explaining explaining the law.

I don’t think that you have ever had a humble opinion. You are of course welcome to express an opinion on thread etiquette, I suspect this would be a minority view, but I would be more than happy to enter in to friendly debate on the subject.