Aero wheels or climbing wheels?

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I have a decision to make re wheels on my new bike. I can choose any of the top line from this page (30/50/60/80) with no difference in cost to me.

https://blackinc.cc/shop/

The 50's are an older model which they have discontinued and not as high spec as the other three models, and the 80's are too deep for me, so I have decided it's between the 30's and 60's.

Most of my riding is in rolling countryside in UK socially with mates and no racing. I do have cycling trips booked to Alps and Majorca so there will be some serious hills occasionally. The 60's are slightly heavier but more aero and can ride with wider tyres, and the 30's the opposite. I am leaning towards the 60's. The bike frame itself is not an aero model, but an all rounder disc brake.

Anyone have a strong opinion for or against deeper section aero wheels vs climbing wheels? I know I would be v.happy with either so it's hardly an issue. Have watched a few GCN videos and apart from cross winds they seem to be slightly favoured towards deeper sections.

Decisions decisions.... 

 the sheep 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

60's  they look nicer 

On a more serious note this cropped up on my Facebook feed the other day;

http://www.220triathlon.com/gear/bike/wheels/why-are-deep-section-aero-whee...

Post edited at 10:31
 tomsan91 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I would say it depends on what the average speeds of the rides you go on are, if you're smashing it round at 30-35 kph on group rides with rolling hills then I would go for the 60s as they will be a big benefit. If you’re riding around at more like 25 kph and lower than the aero advantages are not as great so the 60s would just be more aesthetically pleasing and the lighter weight of the 30s would bring your overall bike weight down. If the wheels you have now are cheaper alloy rims both the 30s and the 60s are going to be a nice upgrade, a windy day in the alps could be a little twitchy on a deeper sectioned wheel but you already have a set of alloy rims you can swap out .

 Jabbott 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I've read that areo wheels only offer benefit when going faster than 40km/h. For me, I'd be going with the 30s on a non-areo frame.

Cheers,
Jamie

 Dark-Cloud 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

For an all rounder pair which is what it sounds like you need from your description 30's, 60's are too deep for general riding IMHO, i think 50's would be a fair compromise and is probably what i would go for.

 Guy 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

The internal rim width is the same for both so you can fit the same tyres on both.  The 60s will be twitchier in gusty winds so could be a poor choice in the Alps, Majorca.  There's nothing scarier than being knocked off your line coming in to a fast corner.

 Yanis Nayu 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Generally speaking aero trumps weight. I prefer 50mm to 60mm, less because of weight and more because of better handling in crosswinds, especially on descents. 

In reply to Guy:

Basically, I need to buy both pairs (if only)  

Thx, I hadn't realised there was no difference in choice of tyres between the different wheels

In answer to some of the questions, the bike will only be ridden on nice days (weekends i'm only a fair weather rider) , 95% in the UK and I usually ride with one or two mates or alone, never in a big group and avg around 30kmph

All good points re wind and mountains...and can't be choosy re weather on those cycling trips as they are only a few days a pop.

Whichever I choose i will probably wish I had chosen the others ...lol

 Dark-Cloud 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Go for the 50's !!

 nniff 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Shallow profile - unless you're riding i a slammed aero position yourself it's going to make 4/5 of f-all difference, but you will notice the wind catching them and lighter going up hills is always a good thing. However, if you want to look as though you could ride with a spirit level on your back all day long if you wanted, go with aero....

 GrahamD 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Personally I wouldn't underestimate aesthetics on your enjoyment.

Personally I'm not a fan of the deeper profile wheels look and would certainly plump for shallow profile in your position.

Having said that I don't think dropped seat stays or discs look right on a road bike either 😎

In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I had a pair of Mavik Ksyriums that needed replacing at short notice so I just got a basic £200 set. I'm faster now than with the Maviks. For me it's a false economy.

In reply to GrahamD:

"Personally I wouldn't underestimate aesthetics on your enjoyment."

yep, think you're right. Can't disagree with anything said above so it really does comes down to aesthetics and how often I might crap myself on a windy alpine descent (which unfortunately won't be as often as I would like) and once I have licked my financial wounds, can always buy another pair of wheels.

Always interesting hearing others views on these type of questions.

 ianstevens 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Jabbott:

> I've read that areo wheels only offer benefit when going faster than 40km/h. For me, I'd be going with the 30s on a non-areo frame.

> Cheers,

> Jamie

You've read wrong. Aero is king, go for the 60s. Plus look cool.

2
 LastBoyScout 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I have lightweight alu wheels on one bike (Bontrager Race X lite) and 50mm aero wheels on another (Campag Bullet Ultra) - both rim brake.

It is very noticeable how much faster the X-Lites spin up than the Bullets when pulling away from a junction. They also "feel" faster, but that's possibly subjective - the tyres and tubes aren't quite the same and I've never quite got round to properly comparing times on the same roads.

I have to say I haven't really noticed much buffeting from cross winds on the bullets, but this can be down to good design of the profile - some wheels (e.g. Zipp FireCrest) are quite tolerant and some others are notoriously bad. I've been out in some pretty windy days and used both sets on mountains in the Pyrenees.

38-40mm seems to be the "sweet spot" for an all-rounder wheel - I went with the 50mm for the look of them, because I already had the alu ones and just because I could at the time.

As an all-rounder, I'd be leaning towards the 30mm.

Have a look here for ideas - there are some other buyers guides to wheels, but it's a faff to find them:

https://road.cc/content/buyers-guide/217881-44-best-road-bike-wheels-reduce...

 Jimbo C 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I would second the comments about average speed. If you'll be spending the majority of the time riding up hill and you're averaging below 30kph the benefit of the lower weight 'might' outweigh the aero advantage.

edit: Nice wheels though, whichever one you go with.

Post edited at 13:46
In reply to ianstevens:

Alex Dowsett describes them as "baller" (whatever that means) in this video at 4m 42 seconds in... I have to say I love the look of them

https://road.cc/content/tech-news/271195-pro-bikes-alex-dowsetts-factor-vam...

 tomsan91 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Hunt wheels are doing mix and match wheelsets where you could get a 52 on the front and a 62 one the rear. They have ceramic speed bearings in the new sets and come in at around the same weight as the wheel set you are looking at, they also seem to be about 40% cheaper so the two sets of wheels is more of an option if you have the cash :p

Post edited at 15:42
 nniff 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Alternatively, at that money, get some Chris King hubs with some DT Swiss rims made up.....

 Enty 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

If you're thinking of spending that much on some carbon wheels I have a 4 letter word for you........                                                                                                                                                                                                       

Bora,

E

Post edited at 16:12
 Schmiken 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Aero always triumphs lightweight until you hit grades of 12% or greater. 

I would go with the deeper wheels unless you are going out in very strong winds (although modern wheels are nowhere near as bad carbon deep section used to be). If you've boiled down to 30 Vs 60 I would go with 60s, especially for the use description you've given.

Lower profile wheels often 'feel' faster, but empirical evidence will normally show that they really aren't! To show this, try riding with 19c tyres at 130 psi and then 25cs at 90psi. The 25s will feel slower but be noticeably faster!

In reply to Enty:

I'm basically buying same bike that's in the video and they come with those branded wheels (it's actually all the same company)...i'm not actually buying them as a separate item but was given the choice of choosing rim depths....hence the quandary.

 Dark-Cloud 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Enty:

Thought you were going to say Enve, Bora are cheap by comparison

 Dark-Cloud 11 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Alex Dowsett is a wattage machine who will probably notice the difference between 30 and 60mm rims, i doubt us mere mortals will.

 neuromancer 12 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Unless you're racing or competing, get the easier to manage ones. Aero is irrelevant otherwise.

 Jim Lancs 12 Mar 2020

Unless you average more than 20mph on your ride, then go for lighter rather than deeper everytime.  Light wheels and tyres make the whole bike feel more lively.

Also if you ride all 'summer' long you will encounter strong cross winds, and deep rims make the bike more difficult to steer with it constantly twitching about.

And then there's the noise - some deep section wheels are so loud they scare the wildlife . . .

Post edited at 09:34
 Lord_ash2000 12 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

From what I've heard aero wheels will outdo climbing wheels on most rides unless you're only bothered about your time on a sustained steep climb where the top speed is minimal and the aero advantage is lost to extra weight. The only issue I'd have with 60mm rims is the wind, personally I'd be unlikely to go over 40mm for what I don't enjoy crosswinds at the best of times. 

1
 Enty 12 Mar 2020
In reply to Dark-Cloud:

> Thought you were going to say Enve, Bora are cheap by comparison


I have a pair of Enve - I could never recommend them. Probably the worst major purchase I've ever made. They're absolute shite. I would even go as far as questioning the Chris King hubs which need fairly regular maintenance.

They're so bad that at one point I thought they could be fake but I had them checked at the shop and they're legit.

I also have a pair of original Boras purchased in 2003. I think I once did the bearings about 10 years ago - they're still going strong and straight as anything. They're de-badged with a shimano freehub fitted.

I still curse when I think I could've had another pair of Boras and plenty of change for beer.

Don't believe the hype folks!

E

Post edited at 09:56
 tomsan91 12 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Another point to consider is the second hand value of your wheels once you buy the bike, if you look at facebook sale groups and the TT forum at whats on offer aero wheelsets hold their value far better than any low profile climbing rim does. So if you do go for the 60s and hate them I'm sure you could still get £1k back for that wheelset.

 Dark-Cloud 12 Mar 2020
In reply to Enty:

Good info, especially the CK hubs, i always thought they were the best of the best, i have had good mileage out of DT Swiss hubs before so would probably go for those over CK anyway.

I fancy a pair of 45's or 50's as a second pair of wheels but Enve are far too much money, probably get something built by these guys https://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/

In reply to tomsan91:

Thx for all the replies guys....none the wiser haha!

Decided to plump for the 60's. Give them a go. they look great if nothing else and if I really don't get on with them I will replace them with a shallower rim and keep the 60-'s for those really still days that we never seem to have

In reply to Enty:

Purely anecdotal...

I was in Strype Street Cycles a few weeks ago, they build custom bikes for customers using a wide range of brands. I was chatting to them about various possible builds and they said they recommend the black inc wheels on most if not all of their builds now, they have been that impressed with them. Either way, I will never do them justice..but nice to own a bit of bling once in a while 

https://www.strypestreetcycles.co.uk/

 Enty 12 Mar 2020
In reply to Dark-Cloud:

I have a set of  Enve SES 4.5. on CK hubs.

The rear wheel flexes so much when I'm sprinting that the rim touches the brake pad - so I now have to have the caliper open more than I want.
Braking surface squeals like a pig - I've tried every possible type of carbon pad combination (at considerable expense) and toed in at every possible angle.
Rear hub needs tightening every 1000km or so.

I'd be interested to see if Dimension data get the actual wheels from Enve or just the decals

E

 Yanis Nayu 12 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Good choice I reckon. 

 Toby_W 12 Mar 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Firstly where do you live?  What I mean is choose based on your local topography.

Secondly:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH9263dSaOHFe25dkyGAu3Q

Hambini uses colourful language and has a very low opinion of the level of engineering in the bike industry and their marketing departments.

Cheers

Toby

Post edited at 11:31
 Martin Wood 28 Apr 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I use the Black inc Thirty tubulars with 25mm tyres on my summer bike all the time.  My riding is hilly rather than rolling. As others have said, slightly deeper might be a better overall choice but I wouldn't be taking 60s to the Alps or Majorca. My wheels weigh 1215g and are actually 35mm deep. 

In terms of longevity, I'd give my wheels 8/10. They have done ca. 6k miles over the last 2 years. Both spin perfectly and have stayed perfectly true. Neither have had any braking surface issues. I snapped a spoke on the rear (drive side) last year, which meant re-lacing the whole wheel (they are very taut).

 Dan Arkle 28 Apr 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I got some 52.75 custom made. Its the perfect trade off.

 bigbobbyking 28 Apr 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

As an aside, a lot of comments here were to the point "only choose deep rims if you're already going fast". Interestingly the guy from Wheelsmith says that if you are going faster you will see an aero benefit from a shallower rim. If you are going slower you need a deeper rim to see an aero benefit. https://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/aero-in-plain-english

"If you aren't that fast (below 17mph average), a 38mm rim won't be much use to you aerodynamically. A 45mm might help, a 50mm or 60mm rim will definitely help."

I don't have a strong intuitions here... But does it make sense that if you're travelling faster your air resistance if a larger fraction of total resistance and so you can make smaller improvements to your aerodynamics to see results? Where as at lower speeds you need to dramatically improve you aerodynamics to notice a benefit as the air resistance is a lower fraction of your total resistance.

 kevin stephens 28 Apr 2020
In reply to bigbobbyking:

Cosswinds?

Rigid Raider 28 Apr 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I've just bought some Hunt alloy wheels for my Roubaix and think they are excellent value. The rim is 28mm deep, so they are a tiny bit affected by crosswinds though I have quickly become accustomed to the sensation and I'm not noticing it now. They look fantastic and the freehub is loud, which is good for when approaching pedestrians.

These: https://www.huntbikewheels.com/collections/road-cx-disc-brake-wheels/produc...

 gazhbo 29 Apr 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

Aero

 Frank4short 30 Apr 2020
In reply to Bjartur i Sumarhus:

I've not trawled the entire thread so forgive me if this has already been mentioned (or similar).

Industry nine make their carbon road wheels in straight combos and with different depth front and rear section combos. Definitely something worth considering. Also they are amongst the best wheel manufacturers out there, and their hubs are literally second to none. Oh and the colour choices!

https://industrynine.com/wheels/road


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