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I've been looking into getting out into the mountains this winter and have been wondering what gear I do and don't need (over and above my usual gear).
I'm thinking the likes of Skiddaw, Ben Nevis and similar in the snow but in stable, high pressure conditions.
On my list are crampon compatible boots, crampons, walking ice axe, gaiters or alpine style trousers and warmer gloves.
Is that sensible?
I've plenty of warm technical clothing already.
Thanks in advance,
Matt
I'm thinking the likes of Skiddaw, Ben Nevis and similar in the snow but in stable, high pressure conditions.
On my list are crampon compatible boots, crampons, walking ice axe, gaiters or alpine style trousers and warmer gloves.
Is that sensible?
I've plenty of warm technical clothing already.
Thanks in advance,
Matt
In reply to afx22:
Knowing how to use axe and crampons is WAY more important than which model you get. If you have clothes for hill walking already you probably have enough. A warm duvet to pull on at lunch is nice as an extra too. Have a bothy bag in your pack too.
Map compass and be good with them plus invest 75p on the relevant OS map tile on your phone so you can use it as a backup gps.
Knowing how to use axe and crampons is WAY more important than which model you get. If you have clothes for hill walking already you probably have enough. A warm duvet to pull on at lunch is nice as an extra too. Have a bothy bag in your pack too.
Map compass and be good with them plus invest 75p on the relevant OS map tile on your phone so you can use it as a backup gps.
9
In reply to afx22:
Primary equipment and in order :
Boots
Gloves
Compass and map
Headtorch
Walking poles
Crampons
Ice axe
Helmet
Sexondary:
Funky alpine trousers
Primary equipment and in order :
Boots
Gloves
Compass and map
Headtorch
Walking poles
Crampons
Ice axe
Helmet
Sexondary:
Funky alpine trousers
1
12
In reply to zimpara:
What winter walking have you done if you are saying walking poles before ice axe? I would suggest that's bollocks advice but I'm sure you have a reason.
What winter walking have you done if you are saying walking poles before ice axe? I would suggest that's bollocks advice but I'm sure you have a reason.
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4
In reply to TobyA:
To be fair, although I would rarely not have both to hand, I find poles useful pretty much all the time on snow of all types, while axes tend to stay on the pack until things get technical or sketchy.
> What winter walking have you done if you are saying walking poles before ice axe? I would suggest that's bollocks advice but I'm sure you have a reason.
To be fair, although I would rarely not have both to hand, I find poles useful pretty much all the time on snow of all types, while axes tend to stay on the pack until things get technical or sketchy.
5
In reply to TobyA:
Well are we talking about walking or climbing?
I personally love poles. Of coarse there will always be haters and I used to hate them. (Because I had never used them/walked very far.)
Well are we talking about walking or climbing?
I personally love poles. Of coarse there will always be haters and I used to hate them. (Because I had never used them/walked very far.)
3
1
In reply to afx22:
A balaclava mate, and a pair of ski goggles. Lots of gloves/mitts, dachstein or buffalo mitts, spare base layer, synthetic or duvet jacket and a bothy bag.
Good torch and spare batteries.
A balaclava mate, and a pair of ski goggles. Lots of gloves/mitts, dachstein or buffalo mitts, spare base layer, synthetic or duvet jacket and a bothy bag.
Good torch and spare batteries.
4
In reply to zimpara:
The guy was asking about walking so I think that's quite clear, and he mentions specifically Ben Nevis.
I've used a pair of poles for winter approaches for over 20 years and like using them a lot but I'll also always have an axe or ice tools with me. But you said in your advice was "in order" and put poles before an axe. I've descended the tourist path on the Ben a number of times when not having an axe (and crampons), and knowing how to self arrest, would make it really dangerous. In fact I've seen the miners track on Snowdon as icy, also meaning the people without axes (and there were plenty of them) could have done nothing had they slipped.
But anyway, Offwidth I think it was the other day called you out as he thought you were giving advice on things you didn't really have experience of, so I just thought you might want to share what experience of winter walking you have. I don't know, you might have done all the Munro in winter or similar and come to your conclusions based on that.
> Well are we talking about walking or climbing?
The guy was asking about walking so I think that's quite clear, and he mentions specifically Ben Nevis.
I've used a pair of poles for winter approaches for over 20 years and like using them a lot but I'll also always have an axe or ice tools with me. But you said in your advice was "in order" and put poles before an axe. I've descended the tourist path on the Ben a number of times when not having an axe (and crampons), and knowing how to self arrest, would make it really dangerous. In fact I've seen the miners track on Snowdon as icy, also meaning the people without axes (and there were plenty of them) could have done nothing had they slipped.
But anyway, Offwidth I think it was the other day called you out as he thought you were giving advice on things you didn't really have experience of, so I just thought you might want to share what experience of winter walking you have. I don't know, you might have done all the Munro in winter or similar and come to your conclusions based on that.
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3
In reply to TobyA:
If you're going to take my list so critically, that means what I am saying is,
With a pair of boots only, he may go out walking, with not a glove or map insight he may summit mountains with nothing but the boots he is wearing, as he looks forward to his next walk where, following the list, he may walk with boots AND gloves.
Ffs!
If you're going to take my list so critically, that means what I am saying is,
With a pair of boots only, he may go out walking, with not a glove or map insight he may summit mountains with nothing but the boots he is wearing, as he looks forward to his next walk where, following the list, he may walk with boots AND gloves.
Ffs!
2
13
In reply to afx22:
Not a kit list but a simple check list of the six 'tions to cover for me,
Insulation, Illumination, Navigation, Communication, Nutrition & Fall prevention.
Not a kit list but a simple check list of the six 'tions to cover for me,
Insulation, Illumination, Navigation, Communication, Nutrition & Fall prevention.
2
In reply to TobyA:
I appreciate that using the the gear is critical. Using an ice axe for self arrest looks like my idea of fun
I appreciate that using the the gear is critical. Using an ice axe for self arrest looks like my idea of fun
In reply to zimpara:
So I'm reading this as though I should add walking poles to my list of things I need....
I already have a headtorch and a climbing helmet.
So I'm reading this as though I should add walking poles to my list of things I need....
I already have a headtorch and a climbing helmet.
In reply to Dave the Rave:
I have all of the above except the bothy bag. Dumb question - is why might I need this?
I have all of the above except the bothy bag. Dumb question - is why might I need this?
Post edited at 22:06
In reply to zimpara:
You haven't actually answered the question though. What experience people have isn't really anyone else's business but you seem keen on giving advice on threads like this so then asking what that advice is based on doesn't seem totally unreasonable.
You haven't actually answered the question though. What experience people have isn't really anyone else's business but you seem keen on giving advice on threads like this so then asking what that advice is based on doesn't seem totally unreasonable.
4
3
In reply to afx22:
Something well worth practising! Sounds like you have clothing covered but these are some notes wrote some time ago that might be of interest http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/a-beginner-guide-to-clothin...
Something well worth practising! Sounds like you have clothing covered but these are some notes wrote some time ago that might be of interest http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/a-beginner-guide-to-clothin...
In reply to afx22:
In an emergency much better than an old school plastic survival bag, and not in an emergency great to eat lunch in if the weather is crappy!
> I have all of the above except the bothy bag. Dumb question - is why might I need this?
In an emergency much better than an old school plastic survival bag, and not in an emergency great to eat lunch in if the weather is crappy!
5
In reply to TobyA:
Well now...
Perhaps I have never moved a foot outside in winter months before
Perhaps I lived on the Falkland Islands through the despair of winter
Either way, it isn't really anyone elses business.
> What experience people have isn't really anyone else's business
Well now...
Perhaps I have never moved a foot outside in winter months before
Perhaps I lived on the Falkland Islands through the despair of winter
Either way, it isn't really anyone elses business.
4
11
In reply to zimpara:
In which case it seems odd that you won't say on what basis you give advice but you keep giving it. Would you be willing to confirm for the sake of this thread whether you have been up either Ben Nevis or Skiddaw in winter conditions?
In which case it seems odd that you won't say on what basis you give advice but you keep giving it. Would you be willing to confirm for the sake of this thread whether you have been up either Ben Nevis or Skiddaw in winter conditions?
4
3
In reply to TobyA:
Its fair to say poles will get used way more of the time than an axe will and preventing falls in crampons is never a bad starting point. But that doesn't mean no axe for the short sections of dangerous terrain where an ice axe arrest is actually going to work.
Its fair to say poles will get used way more of the time than an axe will and preventing falls in crampons is never a bad starting point. But that doesn't mean no axe for the short sections of dangerous terrain where an ice axe arrest is actually going to work.
2
In reply to afx22:
This is the kit list I send to clients who come on courses with us, it might give you some ideas,
http://www.climbingcompany.co.uk/winter-skills-kit-list/
This is the kit list I send to clients who come on courses with us, it might give you some ideas,
http://www.climbingcompany.co.uk/winter-skills-kit-list/
2
In reply to GrahamD:
Second this. Basically poles are handy a lot of the time but you can also easily do without them. Ice axe you may get away without it most of the time but when you need it, you really need it so is essential piece of kit. Same with map, compass, head torch etc. Dont skimp on the safety gear.
Clothing wise, your normal hillwalking gear will be fine for starters, but chuck in an extra warm layer, and spare gloves (ie at least 2 pairs) are a good idea.
> Its fair to say poles will get used way more of the time than an axe will and preventing falls in crampons is never a bad starting point. But that doesn't mean no axe for the short sections of dangerous terrain where an ice axe arrest is actually going to work.
Second this. Basically poles are handy a lot of the time but you can also easily do without them. Ice axe you may get away without it most of the time but when you need it, you really need it so is essential piece of kit. Same with map, compass, head torch etc. Dont skimp on the safety gear.
Clothing wise, your normal hillwalking gear will be fine for starters, but chuck in an extra warm layer, and spare gloves (ie at least 2 pairs) are a good idea.
4
In reply to TobyA:
Unless weight is a real issue I'd recommend having both (at least within the group). There are a few things you can do with a plastic survival bag to get a casualty off the floor that involve cutting it which I'd prefer not to do to my group shelter (and it wouldn't be much use as a shelter after). If you have a shelter as well you can then get everyone in that with the casualty packaged in the survival bag. I keep a packaged survival bag (they never fold back the same!) semi-permanently down the back of my bag and usually take out a 2-3 person shelter as well (I also have a 8 person one but mostly save that for paddling).
Unless weight is a real issue I'd recommend having both (at least within the group). There are a few things you can do with a plastic survival bag to get a casualty off the floor that involve cutting it which I'd prefer not to do to my group shelter (and it wouldn't be much use as a shelter after). If you have a shelter as well you can then get everyone in that with the casualty packaged in the survival bag. I keep a packaged survival bag (they never fold back the same!) semi-permanently down the back of my bag and usually take out a 2-3 person shelter as well (I also have a 8 person one but mostly save that for paddling).
In reply to Snoweider:
As someone who has long done quite a lot of winter walking (Munros, Corbetts etc) over the years but who isn't at all a climber, I very occasionally take a pole (only ever one, never two) if there might be a lot of sloggy lower/mid-level soft snow or an awkward burn to cross. However, I couldn't conceive of going up something biggish and snowy in winter without an axe (plus the crampons are almost always in the sack in such situations). A walking axe serves pretty well as a pole if need be, ie if you just basically need a stick on the kind of snow that you're not going to fall off (but might fall into). The reverse isn't true, though - as Snoweider says, if you're in a place where you need an axe, then just having a pole or two isn't going to be any use and is quite likely to be dangerous. Prime places for seeing people just with poles when they should have axe and crampons are the top 100m of the main path on the eastern Ben Vorlich (steep and north-facing) and the top section of the Ptarmigan route on to Ben Lomond; every winter you can see some worrying sights in these places on days with ice or hard snow.
One thing that often strikes me about the crampon side of things (again walking) is that it's remarkable how often these get put on at about 750m/2500ft. Hence they're essential pieces of winter kit for Munros and all but the lowest and gentlest Corbetts, whereas most of the time you can get away without them on Grahams and lower hills. On my local patch of the Ochils (highpoint 721m) I wear Mudclaws all year round apart from in exceptionally icy spells (when it's the glens lower down that are skiddy, not the tops), but if I was going to Ben Ledi say in winter conditions, then I'd definitely take the crampons and axe.
Oh, and also note that if using paths in descent it's quite common to keep the crampons on to a lower level than where you put them on in ascent, as streaks of water ice etc can be ambled down where the alternative might be very fiddly.
> Basically poles are handy a lot of the time but you can also easily do without them. Ice axe you may get away without it most of the time but when you need it, you really need it so is essential piece of kit.
As someone who has long done quite a lot of winter walking (Munros, Corbetts etc) over the years but who isn't at all a climber, I very occasionally take a pole (only ever one, never two) if there might be a lot of sloggy lower/mid-level soft snow or an awkward burn to cross. However, I couldn't conceive of going up something biggish and snowy in winter without an axe (plus the crampons are almost always in the sack in such situations). A walking axe serves pretty well as a pole if need be, ie if you just basically need a stick on the kind of snow that you're not going to fall off (but might fall into). The reverse isn't true, though - as Snoweider says, if you're in a place where you need an axe, then just having a pole or two isn't going to be any use and is quite likely to be dangerous. Prime places for seeing people just with poles when they should have axe and crampons are the top 100m of the main path on the eastern Ben Vorlich (steep and north-facing) and the top section of the Ptarmigan route on to Ben Lomond; every winter you can see some worrying sights in these places on days with ice or hard snow.
One thing that often strikes me about the crampon side of things (again walking) is that it's remarkable how often these get put on at about 750m/2500ft. Hence they're essential pieces of winter kit for Munros and all but the lowest and gentlest Corbetts, whereas most of the time you can get away without them on Grahams and lower hills. On my local patch of the Ochils (highpoint 721m) I wear Mudclaws all year round apart from in exceptionally icy spells (when it's the glens lower down that are skiddy, not the tops), but if I was going to Ben Ledi say in winter conditions, then I'd definitely take the crampons and axe.
Oh, and also note that if using paths in descent it's quite common to keep the crampons on to a lower level than where you put them on in ascent, as streaks of water ice etc can be ambled down where the alternative might be very fiddly.
Post edited at 11:03
8
In reply to afx22:
Thanks everyone for the replies. It looks like I ought to consider adding Walking Poles and a Bothy Bag to my list.
So the list now looks like;
- Crampon Compatible Boots
- Crampons
- Walking Ice Axe
- Walking Poles
- Bothy Bag
- Possibly winter Alpine type trousers
I already have headtorch, map, compass, electronic mapping, helmet and as much technical clothing as your average Cotswolds.
Thanks everyone for the replies. It looks like I ought to consider adding Walking Poles and a Bothy Bag to my list.
So the list now looks like;
- Crampon Compatible Boots
- Crampons
- Walking Ice Axe
- Walking Poles
- Bothy Bag
- Possibly winter Alpine type trousers
I already have headtorch, map, compass, electronic mapping, helmet and as much technical clothing as your average Cotswolds.
In reply to Stu McInnes:
Interesting that goggles are on the list and described as vital.
I can appreciate they'd be crucial in a white out or in a blizzard. I plan to stay away from risky weather until I'm more comfortable with walking in snow in good conditions.
I do have some old Oakley Snowboarding goggles kicking about somewhere...
Interesting that goggles are on the list and described as vital.
I can appreciate they'd be crucial in a white out or in a blizzard. I plan to stay away from risky weather until I'm more comfortable with walking in snow in good conditions.
I do have some old Oakley Snowboarding goggles kicking about somewhere...
1
In reply to afx22:
If you have got loads of money get them all. If you haven't, the first three are essential if is icy, the others are luxuries.
> - Crampon Compatible Boots
> - Crampons
> - Walking Ice Axe
> - Walking Poles
> - Bothy Bag
> - Possibly winter Alpine type trousers
> - Crampons
> - Walking Ice Axe
> - Walking Poles
> - Bothy Bag
> - Possibly winter Alpine type trousers
If you have got loads of money get them all. If you haven't, the first three are essential if is icy, the others are luxuries.
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In reply to afx22:
Yep, if the weather is bad or even just windy (with the snow being blown around) you'll find goggles are vital... Without them you'll essentially be blind! Sunglasses will keep a little wind blown snow out but certainly shouldn't be replied upon.
Yep, if the weather is bad or even just windy (with the snow being blown around) you'll find goggles are vital... Without them you'll essentially be blind! Sunglasses will keep a little wind blown snow out but certainly shouldn't be replied upon.
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In reply to afx22:
Goggles can also be very handy in windy conditions or hail / driving rain. The ones you have from snowboarding will be just fine. Mine just stay in my rucksack from late October through April.
Years ago when I did my winter skills course I remember thinking along the same lines of you, basically, that I would only ever go out in good weather and why the hell did I need to be able to navigate in a whiteout or whatever as I'd no intention of being out in such weather....
However, sometimes the good weather doesn't last or it's not quite as good as you expect or you get a nasty squall whatever. Discovering you've not got the right kit, be it googles, axe, crampons or whatever when the weather goes south really isn't much fun.
Goggles can also be very handy in windy conditions or hail / driving rain. The ones you have from snowboarding will be just fine. Mine just stay in my rucksack from late October through April.
Years ago when I did my winter skills course I remember thinking along the same lines of you, basically, that I would only ever go out in good weather and why the hell did I need to be able to navigate in a whiteout or whatever as I'd no intention of being out in such weather....
However, sometimes the good weather doesn't last or it's not quite as good as you expect or you get a nasty squall whatever. Discovering you've not got the right kit, be it googles, axe, crampons or whatever when the weather goes south really isn't much fun.
2
In reply to afx22:
I would change the 'Alpine Trousers' for -
-----your standard hillwalking trousers (slightly thicker pair if you have several)
-----cheap base layer leggings if insulation required
-----good quality pair of Gore-tex waterproof trousers.
----- gaiters
In the winter it's all about temperature regulation so you want lots of zips to open when it's hot and lots of layers that can be removed/put on. Having several items that are interchangeable and work in combinations normally covers a larger range of conditions, and will cost you less money in the long run. It's better than having one pair of expensive luminous trousers that won't do you if it's 1 degree too hot or too cold.
> On my list are crampon compatible boots, crampons, walking ice axe, gaiters or alpine style trousers and warmer gloves.
I would change the 'Alpine Trousers' for -
-----your standard hillwalking trousers (slightly thicker pair if you have several)
-----cheap base layer leggings if insulation required
-----good quality pair of Gore-tex waterproof trousers.
----- gaiters
In the winter it's all about temperature regulation so you want lots of zips to open when it's hot and lots of layers that can be removed/put on. Having several items that are interchangeable and work in combinations normally covers a larger range of conditions, and will cost you less money in the long run. It's better than having one pair of expensive luminous trousers that won't do you if it's 1 degree too hot or too cold.
2
In reply to afx22:
Last tme I went winter walking it was on a UKC weekend trip years ago!
We went up Snowdon and this is what I wore/carried.
Scarpa Triolet B2 boots with Grivel G12's
Thin socks and slightly thicker socks
long johns
Mammut Base jump pants and a pair of gaiters (if I know it is going to be deep snow) tend to wear them then take them off as and when
Helly Hansen base layer and a RAB Vr smock
thin, warm gloves
buff and a hat
Carry map and compass and snacks :0)
When it was a lot colder higher up, I put on a pair of primaloft mitts (prefer mitts as I run cold in my hands), a long sleeved cotton t shirt under my VR smock and a waterproof jacket for wind resistance. Each person is different but this is what I've always worn and works for me.
In my rucksack, 2 spare pairs of gloves and 2 hats, first aid kit, GPS (never use it), headtorch and emergency Petzl elite torch, antifog ski goggles, primaloft hoody, lunch, 3 litre camelbak, flask, sunglasses, emergency blizzard type bag x 2 (1 to waterproof my kit and one to use) cheap waterproof trousers and my phone. As overkill as this seems, I have a Spot messenger which I use to send a text when I get to the top and another when I'm setting off. I didn't buy this, I won it as a prize with a years subscription and some may think overkill but I liked it and if I was out all the time in winter, I'd use it.
On the outside of my sack, I have my axe (basic t rated) and I always use walking poles in my case Black Diamond ones. If needs be, then I use my axe but you'll need to gain experience on when and how to use that same goes with crampons.
Think thats probably about it. I never carry a helmet when winter walking or extra leg insulation and obviously all this wil change if I'm going out overnight or climbing.
Without teaching you to suck eggs and I don't mean to sound condescending.............. always tell someone where you're going, which route etc and stick to it. Even if you're an experienced summer map reader, make sure you can use a map and compass in full on winter conditions as it is hellish! And definately try to get on a winter skills course. It's not only about axe arrest and how to use crampons, you learn much more and it gives you the confidence in your kit and yourself to go out in winter. Me personally, I also like into the hills to go out with someone else for company.
Anyway, I've clearly rambled on but this is perfect for me and has been for years, each to their own. Hope this helps and enjoy yourself.
Den
Last tme I went winter walking it was on a UKC weekend trip years ago!
We went up Snowdon and this is what I wore/carried.
Scarpa Triolet B2 boots with Grivel G12's
Thin socks and slightly thicker socks
long johns
Mammut Base jump pants and a pair of gaiters (if I know it is going to be deep snow) tend to wear them then take them off as and when
Helly Hansen base layer and a RAB Vr smock
thin, warm gloves
buff and a hat
Carry map and compass and snacks :0)
When it was a lot colder higher up, I put on a pair of primaloft mitts (prefer mitts as I run cold in my hands), a long sleeved cotton t shirt under my VR smock and a waterproof jacket for wind resistance. Each person is different but this is what I've always worn and works for me.
In my rucksack, 2 spare pairs of gloves and 2 hats, first aid kit, GPS (never use it), headtorch and emergency Petzl elite torch, antifog ski goggles, primaloft hoody, lunch, 3 litre camelbak, flask, sunglasses, emergency blizzard type bag x 2 (1 to waterproof my kit and one to use) cheap waterproof trousers and my phone. As overkill as this seems, I have a Spot messenger which I use to send a text when I get to the top and another when I'm setting off. I didn't buy this, I won it as a prize with a years subscription and some may think overkill but I liked it and if I was out all the time in winter, I'd use it.
On the outside of my sack, I have my axe (basic t rated) and I always use walking poles in my case Black Diamond ones. If needs be, then I use my axe but you'll need to gain experience on when and how to use that same goes with crampons.
Think thats probably about it. I never carry a helmet when winter walking or extra leg insulation and obviously all this wil change if I'm going out overnight or climbing.
Without teaching you to suck eggs and I don't mean to sound condescending.............. always tell someone where you're going, which route etc and stick to it. Even if you're an experienced summer map reader, make sure you can use a map and compass in full on winter conditions as it is hellish! And definately try to get on a winter skills course. It's not only about axe arrest and how to use crampons, you learn much more and it gives you the confidence in your kit and yourself to go out in winter. Me personally, I also like into the hills to go out with someone else for company.
Anyway, I've clearly rambled on but this is perfect for me and has been for years, each to their own. Hope this helps and enjoy yourself.
Den
Post edited at 14:47
1
In reply to afx22:
I've done a fair amount of winter Munros in Glencoe, Kintail, Cairngorms etc. The first time I was on a snowy hill I just had boots & walking poles, I made it to the top but got gaiters, crampons and a walking axe soon after and left the poles at home till Spring. It's common to see climbers use poles to approach routes then swap them for axes but they trust their footwork to avoid falls, plus technical axes aren't great for walking. I always felt safer with an axe anyway.
From experience: GPS is handy for navigating a plateau in a whiteout, gloves are easy to lose so have a spare warm pair or 2) in your pack, practise putting crampons on with gloves, put crampons on & get the axe out the pack when you're on nice flat ground and not halfway up a steep icy slope. And a slightly curved alpine axe might give you more mileage than a walking axe if you think you might get into climbing.
I've done a fair amount of winter Munros in Glencoe, Kintail, Cairngorms etc. The first time I was on a snowy hill I just had boots & walking poles, I made it to the top but got gaiters, crampons and a walking axe soon after and left the poles at home till Spring. It's common to see climbers use poles to approach routes then swap them for axes but they trust their footwork to avoid falls, plus technical axes aren't great for walking. I always felt safer with an axe anyway.
From experience: GPS is handy for navigating a plateau in a whiteout, gloves are easy to lose so have a spare warm pair or 2) in your pack, practise putting crampons on with gloves, put crampons on & get the axe out the pack when you're on nice flat ground and not halfway up a steep icy slope. And a slightly curved alpine axe might give you more mileage than a walking axe if you think you might get into climbing.
In reply to afx22:
Gaiters I'd advocate the cheaper the better for two reasons: 1) You WILL stick your crampons through them 2) when you do, if they rip a bit they will stop you tripping over.
The added bonus is if they are cheap you won't mind as much. Gaffer tape will repair them if need be.
Gaiters I'd advocate the cheaper the better for two reasons: 1) You WILL stick your crampons through them 2) when you do, if they rip a bit they will stop you tripping over.
The added bonus is if they are cheap you won't mind as much. Gaffer tape will repair them if need be.
In reply to GrahamD:
For sure. My (old and fairly cheap) gaiters have a couple of big bits of duct tape on them, with more to come in due course most likely. I've never yet done the classic and potentially quite dangerous thing of tripping over one's own crampons (although I have seen it done), but I have done a less common variant on this: I once managed to snag a side-point of a crampon into the rubberised grip on the shaft of the axe. It wedged in, leaving me briefly hopping about semi off-balance and momentarily puzzled as to what on earth had happened. Thankfully it was on flattish ground (it's much less likely to happen on a slope as the axe would be in a different position) and nowhere narrow, but it was definitely one of those things that you quietly file away in the "Make sure not to do that again" box. More duct tape was later applied to the axe to repair the flap in the grip.
> Gaiters I'd advocate the cheaper the better for two reasons: 1) You WILL stick your crampons through them 2) when you do, if they rip a bit they will stop you tripping over.
For sure. My (old and fairly cheap) gaiters have a couple of big bits of duct tape on them, with more to come in due course most likely. I've never yet done the classic and potentially quite dangerous thing of tripping over one's own crampons (although I have seen it done), but I have done a less common variant on this: I once managed to snag a side-point of a crampon into the rubberised grip on the shaft of the axe. It wedged in, leaving me briefly hopping about semi off-balance and momentarily puzzled as to what on earth had happened. Thankfully it was on flattish ground (it's much less likely to happen on a slope as the axe would be in a different position) and nowhere narrow, but it was definitely one of those things that you quietly file away in the "Make sure not to do that again" box. More duct tape was later applied to the axe to repair the flap in the grip.
In reply to afx22:
To reiterate what a few others have said:
* I wouldn't worry about taking walking poles unless you use them in summer as well, whereas an axe, crampons and suitable boots are basically non-negotiable for starting out in proper winter conditions.
* Gaiters, thermals and overtrousers are probably a better bet than alpine trousers - cheaper and more adaptable.
* Goggles can be extremely useful any time the wind is up and there's snow around.
I've never bothered with a helmet for winter walking, and I don't think many other people do either.
Also, if you're going to wait for stable, high pressure conditions then you might not get much done! A better idea might be to just make sure you pick routes where the route is easy to follow or where you know you're going to have a safe escape option, or both. Ben Nevis requires careful compass work in bad weather and can be pretty dodgy if you don't know exactly where you are, whereas there are plenty of other peaks from which you can be pretty confident that wherever you've ended up, you can walk in one direction and end up back in the valley without falling off anything steep.
To reiterate what a few others have said:
* I wouldn't worry about taking walking poles unless you use them in summer as well, whereas an axe, crampons and suitable boots are basically non-negotiable for starting out in proper winter conditions.
* Gaiters, thermals and overtrousers are probably a better bet than alpine trousers - cheaper and more adaptable.
* Goggles can be extremely useful any time the wind is up and there's snow around.
I've never bothered with a helmet for winter walking, and I don't think many other people do either.
Also, if you're going to wait for stable, high pressure conditions then you might not get much done! A better idea might be to just make sure you pick routes where the route is easy to follow or where you know you're going to have a safe escape option, or both. Ben Nevis requires careful compass work in bad weather and can be pretty dodgy if you don't know exactly where you are, whereas there are plenty of other peaks from which you can be pretty confident that wherever you've ended up, you can walk in one direction and end up back in the valley without falling off anything steep.
2
In reply to afx22:
+1 for the anti pole diatribe. More accurately, I like my poles and I use them a lot, summer and winter, but I see lots of people still leaning on their poles in snowy conditions where a slip would result in going a long way, with injury potential. If you're on ground where you think you won't just stop spontaneously if you fall over, you really ought to have an axe deployed. A pole will be of no use to stop a slide.
+1 for the anti pole diatribe. More accurately, I like my poles and I use them a lot, summer and winter, but I see lots of people still leaning on their poles in snowy conditions where a slip would result in going a long way, with injury potential. If you're on ground where you think you won't just stop spontaneously if you fall over, you really ought to have an axe deployed. A pole will be of no use to stop a slide.
1
In reply to colinakmc:
another vote for poles being an optional extra. i always take them, unless i forget. but if i forget its an inconvenience rather than in all probability abandoning the day's plans, which it would be if you left the boots, crampons, axe, map, compass, and appropriate clothing at home by mistake (like i did when i got out of the car in glenridding car park and realised my boots were in the lobby of honister youth hostel....)
another vote for poles being an optional extra. i always take them, unless i forget. but if i forget its an inconvenience rather than in all probability abandoning the day's plans, which it would be if you left the boots, crampons, axe, map, compass, and appropriate clothing at home by mistake (like i did when i got out of the car in glenridding car park and realised my boots were in the lobby of honister youth hostel....)
2
In reply to afx22:
For their weight they are great for stops when the weathers bad and in the event of misfortune/benightment. They really make the difference between being able to have 5 and eat/drink as opposed to bumbling on and risking hypothermia.
> I have all of the above except the bothy bag. Dumb question - is why might I need this?
For their weight they are great for stops when the weathers bad and in the event of misfortune/benightment. They really make the difference between being able to have 5 and eat/drink as opposed to bumbling on and risking hypothermia.
1
In reply to afx22:
I believe I can single handedly and incontrevertibly solve the ice axe/walking pole debate.
Introducing the Grivel Condor:
http://www.grivel.com/products/ice/poles/8-condor_1816
Best of both worlds, maybe. A walking axe can be had very cheaply (look at the Grivel Helix, £55 or £46 on eBay atm) and is essential for safety a lot of situations you're likely to find yourself in winter walking.
I believe I can single handedly and incontrevertibly solve the ice axe/walking pole debate.
Introducing the Grivel Condor:
http://www.grivel.com/products/ice/poles/8-condor_1816
Best of both worlds, maybe. A walking axe can be had very cheaply (look at the Grivel Helix, £55 or £46 on eBay atm) and is essential for safety a lot of situations you're likely to find yourself in winter walking.
In reply to afx22:
You might not get much done if you only want to get out in stable high pressure conditions. Some winters you get this others barely at all at weekends!
You might not get much done if you only want to get out in stable high pressure conditions. Some winters you get this others barely at all at weekends!
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