A du Midi - Helbronner Cable Car Rescue

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 Ash Routen 08 Sep 2016

Couldn't see a post on this yet. Girlfriend picked this up from Italian news. Folks trapped on the A du Midi to Helbronner tele cabin. Looks like there is a heli rescue underway.

Updates available here

http://www.ledauphine.com/haute-savoie/2016/09/08/une-centaine-de-personnes...

English article here


http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/708709/rescue-cable-car-French-Alps-mou...

Now on BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-37314026?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campa...
Post edited at 20:53
 Rich W Parker 08 Sep 2016
In reply to gtwd14:

Helicopter operations now suspended until light, a cold night for 60 odd people.
 nathan79 08 Sep 2016
In reply to Rich W Parker:

Oh dear. Wouldn't fancy being stuck there for the night. Even with the lovely sunset/rise you'd get.

Glad I did that trip before this happened!
1
 Tom the tall 08 Sep 2016
In reply to gtwd14: And I thought overnighting in the midi toilets was roughing it!

 planetmarshall 08 Sep 2016
In reply to Rich W Parker:

Would be contemplating a James Bond style escape about now.
 Trangia 09 Sep 2016
In reply to gtwd14:

Seems that some folk have been trapped up there all night, and rescue operations commenced again at dawn. Must have been a cold and uncomfortable night.

Isn't his the cable car system which got hit by a French fighter jet many years go?
 James FR 09 Sep 2016
In reply to Trangia:
It is indeed, on 29th August 1961. I never realised it was the same day that Bonnington & Whillans finished the Central Pillar of Freney.

Edit: An interesting write-up (in French) and some photos here: http://www.ledauphine.com/isere-sud/2011/08/28/l-avion-sectionne-le-cable-e...
Post edited at 08:16
 drunken monkey 09 Sep 2016
In reply to gtwd14:

Hope nobody was desperate for a "Jimmy Whyte"
 Scarab9 09 Sep 2016
In reply to drunken monkey:

> Hope nobody was desperate for a "Jimmy Whyte"

glad it wasnt' just me that was thinking this....

must generally have been a very miserable night. Poor folks.
 Postmanpat 09 Sep 2016
In reply to gtwd14:

Bbc r4 reported the passengets had to leap from a cable car 20,000 ft avove Mont Blanc.
We'd better notify the map makers and engineers!!!
 andrewmc 10 Sep 2016
In reply to gtwd14:

How come the helicopters didn't work at night - do they just not have the gear or can they do it normally but not in this case (due to the nature of the rescue)? Pretty sure the new UK SAR helicopters (and possibly the Sea Kings with NVG) can do night operations...
 jon 10 Sep 2016
In reply to andrewmcleod:
I don't think it's necessarily the flying bit - certainly the modern machines that the PGHM have, have the ability - but I could imagine lowering someone on a line to a cable a hundred metres above the glacier in the dark might be a bit frought. And if in doing so stuff got tangled/broken, then they'd likely kill 60 people.
Post edited at 19:52
 John2 10 Sep 2016
In reply to jon:

According to the Express link above the operation was suspended due to fog rather than darkness. Helicopters do all right in darkness.
 Trangia 10 Sep 2016
In reply to drunken monkey:

> Hope nobody was desperate for a "Jimmy Whyte"

Your right, from a purely practical point of view it must be very unpleasant being stuck in a cabin with a load of others, probably strangers and of different sexes. I certainly couldn't last all night without at least a pee or two - a legacy of my prostate cancer.
 jcw 10 Sep 2016
In reply to jon:
It was not fog but cloud coming in. The situation as you probably can guess was a great deal more complex than initially reported. The problem arose in the afternoon but it was only after several attempts by the technicians to resolve the problems of the traction and bearing cables ( I don't know the technical terms in English) becoming entwined failed that the company called belatedly for the rescue services by which time it was too late to deal with the problem for everyone. The suggestion that the problem had been initiated by bursts of high wind is not valid.
Post edited at 22:48
 jon 10 Sep 2016
In reply to jcw:

> The suggestion that the problem had been initiated by bursts of high wind is not valid.

Then the only way is that a passenger(s) started it swinging? Or the traction cable came off a pulley?

 jcw 10 Sep 2016
In reply to jon:

Not at all. There are other ways in which differential,cable expansion and a sudden jolting stop might occur . Doubtless the full report wil eventually determine the cause.
In reply to jcw:

My speculative worry would be that the attachment point of the cables could have shifted a bit. The whole of the top of the Aiguille du Midi appears to be held together by steel pins and cables. Considering the amount of rock fall in the Chamonix Aiguilles (especially the Petite Dru), just how stable is the top of the Aiguille du Midi reckoned to be? (BTW, I've never heard anyone else raise this concern.)
1
 walts4 11 Sep 2016
In reply to John Stainforth:

> My speculative worry would be that the attachment point of the cables could have shifted a bit. The whole of the top of the Aiguille du Midi appears to be held together by steel pins and cables. Considering the amount of rock fall in the Chamonix Aiguilles (especially the Petite Dru), just how stable is the top of the Aiguille du Midi reckoned to be? (BTW, I've never heard anyone else raise this concern.)

Maybe its just me who's paranoid, but this question pops into my head every time I take the top bin on both the Gm & the midi!!
In reply to walts4:

So I am not the only one!
 jon 11 Sep 2016
In reply to jcw:

Do you remember that bizarre and rather worrying incident that occurred not long after the top section of the Midi was reopened after a long refurbishment? Everything worked fine for a week or so then suddenly one day the descending car reached the mid station but the ascending one was quite a bit short of the top! Didn't they blame that on the cable splicing?
 jcw 11 Sep 2016
In reply to jon:
No, now you mention it I do remember it vaguely. And then of course there was the attempt to blow up the bottom station. My funniest was when I brought the top cable cr to a shuddering halt when I demonstrated to someone how I'd swung off descending to the station after climbing on the S Face and my finger hit the emergency stop button.
Post edited at 10:26
 jon 11 Sep 2016
In reply to jcw:

> And then of course there was the attempt to blow up the bottom station.

Tell more.

> My funniest was when I brought the top cable cr to a shuddering halt when I demonstrated to someone how I'd swung off descending to the station and my finger hit the emergency stop button.

I can imagine!

 Simon4 11 Sep 2016
In reply to John Stainforth:
> The whole of the top of the Aiguille du Midi appears to be held together by steel pins and cables. Considering the amount of rock fall in the Chamonix Aiguilles (especially the Petite Dru), just how stable is the top of the Aiguille du Midi reckoned to be?

Not sure exactly where the cable crossing problem was, but isn't any anchor stability problem much more likely to be due to the intermediate pylon on the nunatak, which provides mid-point stability than the Midi, which is pretty solid granite?

The Valle Blanche bubbles are a pretty old installation by now, in a very hostile environment. It is not surprising if they are showing their age. For example the cable-cars up to the Pointe Heilbronner have been completely replaced, presumably at least partly due to age and wear and tear.

Fortunately no-one seems to have been substantially damaged by this episode.
Post edited at 10:36
 jon 11 Sep 2016
In reply to Simon4:

> the intermediate pylon on the nunatak,

You were obviously brought up by Inuits and polar bears and such!
1
 walts4 11 Sep 2016
In reply to Simon4:

> Not sure exactly where the cable crossing problem was, but isn't any anchor stability problem much more likely to be due to the intermediate pylon on the nunatak, which provides mid-point stability than the Midi, which is pretty solid granite?

What!! As solid as the Dru??

Scattered all around the Midi top station are reference lines painted across various cracks & survey reference points, I dread to imagine why?
As for the actual wire ropes, rigging, engineering & as you quite rightly state, the age of the panoramic, surely it was only a matter of time before this kind of incident occurred.
Has it reopened since the forced high altitude bivi in the bubbles???
 Simon4 11 Sep 2016
In reply to jon:

> You were obviously brought up by Inuits and polar bears and such!

Well I was certainly taught not to eat the yellow snow!

Can't remember which of those surrogate parents were responsible for that vital lesson.
 Simon4 11 Sep 2016
In reply to walts4:

> What!! As solid as the Dru??

The exception that proves the rule. Or something like that. But I think the mid point rock is pretty shattered schist, so it must be pretty challenging to place the anchor in that.

> Scattered all around the Midi top station are reference lines painted across various cracks & survey reference points

A while since I have been there.

> it was only a matter of time before this kind of incident occurred.

Rather like the Mont Blanc tunnel, which was very old and certainly did not conform to modern safety standards. For decades it was considered all right, because nothing had ever gone seriously wrong there. Until it did, in a big way, and the long overdue recognition of the fact that it needed serious upgrade was clear, unfortunately after a fireball and a great many deaths.

 jon 11 Sep 2016
In reply to Simon4:

> But I think the mid point rock is pretty shattered schist

Is it?
 Simon4 11 Sep 2016
In reply to jon:
I think so, never having set foot on it, though like lots of people I have been pretty close to it.

I recall reading some notice board about the Vall£e Blanche cable cars saying that it would have been impossible for a horizontal, or nearly horizontal, cable car without the intermediate bracing from the rock outcrop. Something like 5.2 km, cannot be done without the intermediate anchor, though the Midi cablecar 2nd stage is itself a vertical mile, with a substantial horizontal distance. But seemingly the Vall£e Blanche is right on the limit of engineering for a cable car, especially a mostly horizontal one, quite apart from the point about how old and in need of maintenance it may be.

That may of course have be only the engineering limit at the time, but I would think that replacing it would still be a pretty monumental challenge.
Post edited at 14:55
 jon 11 Sep 2016
In reply to Simon4:

I really meant geologically, not engineering wise.
 jcw 11 Sep 2016
In reply to jon:

Can't really remember, but I think it was just after the old station had been rebuilt ( I think after the cable had been replaced) and someone, almost certainly local (grudge? Ecologist? ), did try and blow it up. No one was ever arrested.
 jcw 11 Sep 2016
In reply to Simon4:
The gros rognon (your nunataks) is solid granite. The whole cable system was redone when the new cable cars and Helbronner station were established.
The tunnel was a quite different matter when the administration became complacent and neglected proper precautions as the money rolled in for the then two operating companie, one Itslian and one French. The latter, the ATMB was owned 90% by the state and public interests and presided over by M Balladur! (Politicians however always get away with it and the blame passed elsewhere). Modern tunnel safety standards largely arose after this disaster and a fire in another tunnel shortly after.
Post edited at 17:12
 Simon4 11 Sep 2016
In reply to jcw:
> The whole cable system was redone when the new cable cars and Helbronner station were established.

Does that include the VB bubbles? Which are the ones affected of course.

From the media pictures, it looks very much like the old arrangements. (It is obvious that the Heilbronner lift system is completely new, starting from a quite different place on the Italian side, also they are quite different in appearance and in fact were building the new upper terminus the last time I was there, 2-3 years ago).
Post edited at 17:21
 summo 11 Sep 2016
In reply to Simon4:

> I recall reading some notice board about the Vall£e Blanche cable cars saying that it would have been impossible for a horizontal, or nearly horizontal, cable car without the intermediate bracing from the rock outcrop. Something like 5.2 km, cannot be done without the intermediate anchor, though the Midi cablecar 2nd stage is itself a vertical mile, with a substantial horizontal distance. But seemingly the Vall£e Blanche is right on the limit of engineering for a cable car, especially a mostly horizontal one, quite apart from the point about how old and in need of maintenance it may be.

There is a mid station on a mini peak about 1km out from Cosmiques, it is manned but the cabin doesn't stop there they roll on through. I think there is some cabling off the peaks just after exiting the torino, which gives it a little more lift, after which it is long swoop down and up again, a few hundred metres of height loss.

The engineering limits are the weight of the cable, cabin and passengers across a tensioned wire. It exerts far more force on the anchors at each end than their individual mass alone. Tighter the line, ie nearer pure horizontal it goes, the forces increase massively. I think just to get to 120 degrees, you have double the force on either end.
 jcw 11 Sep 2016
In reply to Simon4:

Don't know details I'm afraid. But the new bubble cars would almost certainly have required the whole wiring, excuse the term, being revised. I did the crossing on my abomnement last year, superb and was planning to do it again this September, but...!
Best wishes
John
 jon 11 Sep 2016
In reply to summo:

> There is a mid station on a mini peak about 1km out from Cosmiques

Yep, that's EskimoNell4's nunatak

 John2 11 Sep 2016
In reply to jcw:

As for the tunnel, there was also a huge avalanche in the 80s which blocked the entrance. It was suggested at the time that there had been a previous avalanche in the same area within living memory and the tunnel should have been built somewhere else.
 Simon4 11 Sep 2016
In reply to summo:
Yes, I think that is the gist of the panneau that I read, that it would not be possible without the nunatak (yes, I will use that word again, as it is correct in the context! Now to find an excuse to use the word "oriflamme", which I came across for the first time today. For preference in tandem with "dystopian"). But mini peak or rock island/gross rognon if you really must.

I think it is correct to say that this is the longest horizontal cable car in the world, of course the altitude makes it a very severe environment to work in.
Post edited at 19:17
 Simon4 11 Sep 2016
In reply to jcw:
> The tunnel was a quite different matter when the administration became complacent and neglected proper precautions as the money rolled in

I read up a bit about the tunnel disaster out of interest, as you say it was a pretty shocking episode, as well as horrifying what happened. I had forgotten that it was quite so long ago.
Post edited at 19:16

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