UKH

Off to the Dolomites shortly for a climbing trip and whilst we're there we plan on spending some time on via ferrata, we are a mixed ability group with some people who have not tried via ferrata before. Everyone will have the correct laynards but would be interested in people thoughts on ropes.

I envisage one primarily being used as a confidance rope on some sections but spending much or all of the time in a pack. We will have our full length climbing ropes with us but to me these seam overkill for this purpouse, we also have a 30m 8mm twin walking rope - do people think would this be a suitable in this situation or should we stick to using 1 end of a 60m single/half?

2 specific questions:

As a single strand would it be sufficent to second a nervious climber?

Or if doubled up be long enough to do the same?

In reply to R Green:

In reply to R Green: You 30m walking rope will be perfect. Store it in the top of your pack pre flaked in a stuff sack, end poking out with a karabiner preattached so you can just pull it out, and take a large HMS like a DMM boa so you can belay directly from stakes using an Italian friction hitch.

In reply to R Green:

I would say that if a single strand safety or comfort rope is going to worry your party you need to review your objectives. If you can't get off the mountain PDQ when a thunderstorm comes in the choice of rope is the least of your worries

In reply to GrahamD:

I rather tend to agree with that. Also if you have more than one nervous person you will need extra ropes because trying to throw the rope end down again for the next one may prove problematical unless they are directly below you. It will make you awfully slow and probably piss off parties behind you.

The whole concept of via ferrata is to enjoy climbing without ropes and normal gear, so chose routes within the party's capability. If someone needs a confidence rope on an easy VF it begs the question as to whether they really should be there at all?

In reply to R Green:

I used to carry rope on via ferratas when my kids were younger. I used it on a few occasions more for my piece of mind on very steep sections than anything to do with my kids abilities. I used my 'wall rope' 35 metres of 10mm and did a direct belay with a reverso.

If you are on climbing trip I would guess that all people are climbers. In such scenario rope for via ferrata is like putting crampons to cross a Hyde Park in fresh snow. I had a companion who climbs 5.8 with me on hardest Dolomites ferratas and he found it easy.

Your 30m 8mm walking rope will be absolutely fine for bringing second and rapeling.

In reply to R Green:

Thanks for the responses, decision made. chances are that we won't require it but it will be making its way into my pack stored like Casa Alfredino suggests.

In reply to R Green:
Definitely worth taking the short rope. I've found it useful to safeguard kids and those really nervous in the past. Look out for the pigs tail clips, a couple of draws are helpful too. I've seen plenty of French / Italian couples with their 2 offspring roped between them.

In 20 years, our party have only used a rope twice in anger on a via ferrata, once to rescue a kayaker from the gorge below and once to aid an elderly gent who had been a bit too optimistic and needed a counterbalance to ascend the final top out.

Comments about thunderstorms were pretty to the point, if a little harsh but do watch the early afternoon storms out there.

Regarding doubling it up, I would only do so if there's particularly sharp rock, otherwise it'll slow you down further.

In reply to R Green:

I would say a single strand of half rope should be sufficient, and no need to double up. As for length, depends on how many will be roped together at any one time, but 30m should be plenty. If there are a lot of you needing roped up, I'd think it would make sense to split into parties. You wouldn't want to have too many people roped together on a ferrata (max. 3?). You may also have to cross bits of glacier or snow field to get to/from the ferrata, in which case a rope can be handy. I second the idea of quick draws. If you have a couple of quickdraws each, you can hang on them to rest your arms on the difficult bits.

In reply to Trangia:

This is an unhelpful response. Saying you should not be on a via Ferrata if you are contemplating belaying one of your party is simply false. You should take whatever precautions you deem suitable for your party. Most guides carry a rope to make sure that if a member of their party is worried about a section, they can make sure nothing goes seriously wrong. Via Ferrata falls are particularly nasty and should not be underestimated, especially by climbers who are used to exposure and the type of terrain usually covered by VF when taking less experienced mountaineers who may become stressed by thing most climbers should not bat an eyelid about. Whether someone behind you is pissed off or not is frankly irrelevant. I suspect their day would be significantly more ruined by witnessing an inexperienced climber falling and hurting themselves. Besides which you can belay steep sections pretty effectively and quickly with practice. All it requires is a friction hitch attached to a staple. In addition to which smaller adults and especially children should be belayed on anything on which they may fall owing to the very high and potentially fatal forces they will experience if using a standard lanyard during a fall.

In reply to Casa Alfredino:


You might not agree with it but IMO it is helpful in the context of the OP, where they were talking about people being nervous of only one starnd of safety rope.

If you are a strong leader who can lead a group and you know your group well enough, then fine plan on pitching some of it. If you just don't know then I suggest the whole party might be out of its depth.

In reply to R Green:

I'm about to do a similar thing to the OP (via ferrata with slightly nervous climber). I bought a 20m 7.5mm Simond rope.

MY question is how long should a rope be for via ferrata? I'm thinking the "nervous" parts of a grade 2 via ferrata are only likely to be small...could I cut the rope to 12 or 15m to save weight and faff?

Thanks

In reply to Casa Alfredino:

Some stakes can be too thick or in bad position to clip the HMS carbiner directly, at least for its narrower end. I use to carry a 60cm sling to loop the stakes.

A daisychain or other methods to adjust the length of your third, resting laynard makes the VF belaying much easier.

In reply to phja:


I did a bunch of Via Ferratas with my kids just a few weeks ago. Following Mike's (Casa Alfredino) very sensible advice I made sure my sub-50kg kid (all the VF sets seem to be rated for people 50 kgs up) was roped to me all the time. I originally took about 28 mtrs of 8.6 triple rope, but after noticing some damage to the sheath (it was this rope!
http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=6738n ) I cut it down to about 24 metres. That was still far more than I really needed; we moved together mainly with two of the pigs tail bolts between us normally and 4 or 5 metres seemed plenty for that on the French VFs we did. The extra rope was handy at times like doing the monkey bridges one at a time and I direct belayed him up some of the steepest ladders, but in those case 15 mtrs would probably be fine and mean you having less coils round you.

We actually left the rope behind at one of the VF sites - all the wife's fault obviously, nothing to do with my stupidity! - so for the last one we used the 4 metres or so cut off (the kids had been using this round the campsites for things like skipping, hitting each other with, falling out of trees etc.). This actually worked fine and meant that there was at least one bolt between us on the that last route.