UKH

So picture the scene. You've driven all the way round your test getting only the odd minor, you get back to the test center and the assessor says well done, you've passed (and ticks the pass box on the exam sheet). Then asks if you can just park up in one of the bays.
You drive up to park in one, just as you do he shouts, 'No! Not there. They're the examiners parking spots. Are you stupid? You must have been blonde in a past life. You'll have to reverse right back to the ones near the entrance'.
You are a bit caught aback by being shouted at while on a very stressful day, but agree and start reversing.
He then continues to badger 'Come on, keep going, keep going. It's quite far back. Keep going.'
Then you bump into a barrier.
'What are you doing you idiot?!'
You compose yourself and proceed to park in the bay, as requested. The assessor gets out. 'I'll have to check that barrier now' (a minor love tap that's done no damage to either the car or the barrier).

Right, well you've failed then. Proceeds to scribble out the already ticked pass box.

Obviously taken pretty shaken by being shouted at, being called an idiot to your face by someone who is meant to be assessing you in a professional manner, and bumping a barrier after being repeatedly instructed to reverse.

Seems like the assessor was massively in the wrong on so many fronts. So it seems logical to complain. Possibly to get a retest, but more likely just to let the center know how massively unprofessional the instructor was.

So you call the center later on in the day once you've calmed down for being failed in the fashion described above, only to have your valid complaint fall on deaf ears, with the response. 'Well Mr. Smith is such a nice chap and i've worked with him for years.'

He may very well be a nice chap, but he's massively unprofessional on quite a few counts, being nice has very little to do with it. And 'nice' people tend not to shout at people while they're being assessed under very stressful conditions.

Any suggestions with how to deal with this lovely gentleman and very professional company?

In reply to CharlieMack:

Three seconds on Google gives this https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/driver-and-vehicle-standards-ag...

In reply to CharlieMack:

I had a similar issue when I was learning to drive so I asked my instructor if he'd be happy to sit in the back of the car whilst the test was being completed (this is allowed). He sat in the car and hey presto, I passed! I'm sure in your situation, the presence of your instructor would have meant your assessor would have behaved a bit more. The impression I get about the area we live in, is that the instructors are in the test centre so many times a week, they all get to know each other pretty well.

Good luck with your next test.

RRIC

In reply to rj_townsend

Cheers for the link. Definitely worth a complaint for poor conduct, a shame they can't turnover the decision. It seems as though installing dashcams for tests would be a great idea. Would make claims much easier to chase down, and quash complaints due to people purely being annoyed at a fail and just making up rubbish. As otherwise it's just the instructors word verses the clients.

In reply to RockyRoadIceCream:

Yeah, instructor is going in the back for the next test at the end of Oct.

In reply to CharlieMack:

That's pretty shocking, no idea how to help. Citizen's advice bureau?

In reply to Alasdair Fulton:

Shockingly poor behavior, complain as strongly as you can, if the examiner develops a history of complaints he/she may be disciplined/sacked.

Nothing will be overturned however. Voice recording equipment is banned on test, dashcams are allowed, but nothing will overturn the examiners decision (like a football referee!).

In reply to CharlieMack:

Make a very formal complaint and don't let it go until your complaint is resolved. Simple case of professional misconduct at best!

In reply to CharlieMack:
In this situation do a DSAR (Data Subject Access Request) and specifically ask for a copy of the test assessment sheet - if this was ticked as you said and then later changed you should be able to use this in any appeal/complaint to evidence your side of the story

You may still not get anywhere

In reply to CharlieMack:
What balmybaldwin said, it's got to be worth a go. I'd second getting another person/your instructor to sit in as well.

In reply to abr1966:

How do you propose it be resolved? The examiner will not almost certainly not admit any liability on pain of being sacked, and the op admits to making contact.

In reply to Dan Arkle:


If the form has been scribbled over in a tantrum by the instructor after being signed off then the OP has a good case for getting a pass.

In reply to Ridge:

It would be a reasonable defense for the examiner to say he ticked the pass box just before the candidate crashed on parking, and had to alter it.

Even if the examiner was disciplined, the result would not be overturned, they just don't do it, the most they would offer is a free restest.

In reply to CharlieMack:

I know wasn't supposed to, but that really made me laugh.

In reply to Dan Arkle:



The test was over, the crash wasn't during the test. If they could revoke a pass every time someone crashed a lot of people would be back off the road by now.

In reply to Lion Bakes:

That's a good point. Definitely going to follow it up strongly. Very poor conduct at best. Interesting points saying the test was over and getting a copy of the scribbled out marks will be pretty obvious evidence.

In reply to CharlieMack:

Complain only in writing.

Have a clear view of what you want and what is achievable. My estimate:

Apology - must have
Refund - would be nice, unlikely
Overturn test result - highly unlikely
Note on file and potential warning for examiner - perhaps, but you'll never know.

In reply to Lion Bakes:

Regardless of the test possibly being over, I'd rather that someone who drives into something (at what is arguably going to be the pinnacle of driver training for most people) didn't pass.

It doesn't bode well for their future driving standards. So what if it was a stressful time? Driving on your own can be stressful at times!

I'd agree the assessor seems unprofessional though.

In reply to Lion Bakes:

And the roads may be safer places for those who avoid crashing if those who crashed had to have a retest before being allowed to drive again.

Important note: I have both crashed (at about 5 mph in the snow, but still) and been crashed into.

In reply to CharlieMack:

Reversing into stuff at slow speed is hardly the most critical danger on the roads from people in motorised vehicles though is it? Pulling out at junctions without looking properly, aggressive tail gating, close passes, poor attitudes etc would be better fails.

In reply to CharlieMack:

Is there a sign that says you can't park there. I passed a year ago and my instructor said that when you get back you can dump it in any of the bays unless it counts as a manoeuvre. Then they might specify one.

Did you not get given the sheet at the end? Was the instructor not watching this happen?

In reply to ianstevens:
That is pure speculation. And utter rubbish.

It was a minor bump after the Examiner failed to give proper instructions, and spoke in a highly unprofessional manner making a derogatory remark, and hurried improper instructions to fluster to an inexperienced driver.

I am all for realistic training, but the assessor was just being a dick.

And I don't know why you put the last bit about crashes? We having a crash contest are we?
I have been in several crashes, crashed into, ran over and attended numerous crashes so what? What has that got to do with an examiner acting like a jumped up prick?

Make a complaint, and lay it on thick with that blonde comment.
Push for at least a free retest, and specify another examiner.
And make a complaint about how your complaint was handled by that idiot on the phone who "worked for him with years, and thought he was such a nice man".

Pretty certain the same type of excuses were used to describe Jimmy Saville. Granted it's a bit of an extreme example like.

And was it really "designated" for examiners only? Was it sign posted? Was it marked? Or was it just one of those things that they all decided, because they wanted to feel all special and important with their own spaces?

In reply to CharlieMack:

Standards in the driving school "industry" is something that has worried me for years. My worries started one fine day when I cycled along a stretch of disused tarmac road that local driving schools use and came up behind a parked school car, in which I saw that the instructor (or examiner) was sitting with his podgy middle-aged paw on the thigh of the attractive young female student who happened to be black and who was staring ahead of her with a "wish I wasn't here" look while he stared meaningfully at her. I didn't report him and have always wished I did. Then my nasty suspicious mind got me to wondering what would happen if the student didn't cooperate with the lecherous man and how she might be tempted to get around the knotty problem of passing her test, possibly by asking somebody else to stand in for her or by offering cash in lieu of a degrading act.

Like the grooming gangs scandal, I suspect there's a whole new scandal here waiting to be uncovered. But the profile of the average instructor or examiner being mostly white, middle-aged men, probably including retired Police drivers and others of a similar ilk, there would be an omerta on what happens in the privacy of the car. The driving instruction "industry" looks to me like one of the last parts of British public life that still runs mostly on trust and the outdated notion that everybody in a public role is automatically decent and trustworthy, especially if they are male, white and middle-aged.

In reply to Rigid Raider:
I can't believe you managed to turn a conversation about driving instructing into race.

1) why does it matter the female was black? Or white, or green, or tarten?

2) my driving instructor was not a "white middle aged male"

3) your post seems to imply all "white middle aged men" are "lecherous" pervert creeps.

4) I have seen more female driving instructors than male in my local area.

5) my HGV instructor was a female.

6) my HGV examiner was a black dude.


Once again the liberal left wing special snowflake brigade has turned a debate about driving instructing into a "debate" about race.

Take yourself outside and have a actual word with yourself.


We get told not to generalise, not to make stereotypes of people, we get told not to tar all Muslims with the actions of a few, and yet here we have a champion of the left wing making the very same generalisations about all white middle aged males because they saw 1 person act.
By your very logic (which obviously isn't a hobby of yours) what would you deduce from the Rotherham scandal? What generalisation about a race of people would you make from that?

In reply to CharlieMack:

I am merely reporting what I saw. I don't give a toss whether the student was male, female, black, white, brown or even green from Mars. The majority of instructors and examiners are perfectly good and honourable, I'm sure, but what does worry me is that there may be a small number of men who exercise their power over their students in the privacy of the car. I'm certainly not a hand-wringing liberal lefty and I have spent my working life travelling around Africa and the Middle East on business and I know that in some countries it's common to pay for the driving licence or send a friend or relative to sit the test. So I believe we may be making a mistake in assuming all British driving instructors and examiners are beyond reproach.

In reply to Rigid Raider:


No one is saying they are beyond reproach. The instructors arent untouchable. It's just incredibly hard to overturn a failed test, otherwise everyone would be doing it.

The least they can do is get a mark against the instructor for being unprofessional.

>I'm sure, but what does worry me is that there may be a small number of men who exercise their power over their students in the privacy of the car.

There's also a small number of women who do so as well.

There's also a small number of teachers/instructors/insert any industry here that do so as well.
And they aren't always white, middle aged, Christians either.

In reply to Bootrock:

Examiners - work for the DVSA conducting tests.

Instructors - teach people to drive.

Examiners cannot be instructors, but most/many are ex-instructors.

In reply to Dan Arkle:

Interesting. Didn't know that. Cheers.

Is it see. As a promotion for instructors or do they just put in for it when they fancy it?

In reply to Bootrock:


How many times has that happened to you before?

In reply to Bootrock:

Indeed. I missed the meeting last night, but looking at the minutes can confirm that RR was duly nominated to speak for us on this issue.

Is your post an official response on behalf of the blinkered right wing hang 'em flog 'em its political correctness gone mad brigade, or are you freelancing a bit here?

In reply to deepsoup:


Freelance. Poke around a bit. Troll a bit here, troll a bit there.

Wherever the bait takes me. Whereever there is a liberal knee jerk, I am there to catch those tears and use them as lube.


That's an absolute belter of a post, have a like.

The test is never over till the car is parked & the engine off.

In reply to Richard Wilson:


In which case the instructor should have never said congratulations you've passed and ticked the form.

In reply to Lion Bakes:

The instructor never did.

The examiner might have.

Was it actually you in the car or an offspring?

In reply to Bootrock:

While I'm not too sure about his post, I've no idea who the liberal left wing special snow flake brigade are, making it hard to know who you're on about.

What group are you a part of - the 'realist - chicken suit wearing brigade'?

You could mean anybody dude...

In reply to CharlieMack:

Hi Charlie, I know you were/are based around manchester, I had a similar experience with one particular examiner who I ended up getting on my retest as a result (shoudl have booked at a different centre) although I dont think mine was quite as bad as yours, just out of curiosity where did you take yours?

In reply to eschaton:

Was in the Bredbury area near Stockport.

Complaints have been made, including the non acceptance of a serious complaint by their staff.

It was the examiner who ticked the box when driving into the centre, and said 'well done' while pointing out that they had ticked the box. He never actually said 'you've passed' but massively insinuated so.

Massively disappointed with their overall service.

In reply to CharlieMack:
Mine was at bredbury as well, rather portly chap?

In reply to CharlieMack:

Trust you have requested that the same examiner is not allocated to any further test, and it might be better to request another test centre.
What about Wick ?

In reply to itsThere:



They are not allowed to specify which bay you park in.

In reply to Rigid Raider:

OMG,

What a load of bollocks.

It is a highly regulated industry.

In reply to Bootrock:



Anyone can apply to be an examiner.

Most ADI's do not see it as a promotion more a move to stability of 8-4 M-F pension ect.
Lots would never do it, some would like to do it but no openings in their area.
Once you become one you have to stop giving lessons.
The pay is not that good but you do get sick pay, holiday pay, pension ect ect.

In reply to CharlieMack:

At the end of my test I was told to park up and then once the examiner had told me I'd passed and filled in the paperwork I was told to get out of the vehicle because I was no longer insured.
So if the paperwork was signed and then the examiner asked the candidate to move the car there's something wrong there.

In reply to CharlieMack:

End of my test (c. 20 years ago, kerist time flies).

Tester: "Well done Bobling, you've passed but can you tell me what was up with your clutch?"
Me: "Stressful situation and nerves made my clutch foot shake a bit"
Tester: "Stressful? STRESSFUL?! Stressful is when you've got someone firing a machine gun at you!"

Legend is he was ex SAS. Even now I fondly imagine the driving test he would have liked to give!

In reply to Lion Bakes:

That's a good point but what kind of examiner would let hitting a barrier go ? That could have been a person. I'm not saying it's right, but I think his job would be at greater risk for passing someone after an accident than failing them.

In reply to Lion Bakes:


No,but you aren't gonna pass if it happens on your driving test are you ?

In reply to CharlieMack:

As described, that's isn't just unprofessional, it's practically illegal - rightly so. Way out of order anyway. Obviously he was having a bad day/week/life, - that's his problem, not yours.

If he told you you had passed, and ticked the box, you passed - end of. He's not allowed to change his mind later.

Write to his boss, formally and politely, and when that doesn't get anywhere take it up with your MP. That's one of the things they're there for.

(As an example, my son was stopped supposedly evading paying the correct train fare, and was fined as a result. The company were totally intransigent about waiving the fine, although in my view they were clearly in the wrong. We got our local MP involved and you know what? They conceded.)

In reply to Wsdconst:

I think the main reason that the bump seems unfair was his repeated comments of "keep reversing" and "keep going". So he basically instructed the collision.

In reply to CharlieMack:

Centre, NOT center unless you were in Yanksville! A deserved fail for incorrect spelling.

In reply to Dave the Rave:

He'd already failed for starting his spiel with "so".

In reply to CharlieMack:


If I told you to put you hand in a fire would you do it?
jk

In reply to CharlieMack:

I don't know about that. It sounds like you did actually reverse into a solid object and so the fail was probably necessary. Ultimately, if you hit solid objects because you're "stressed", you shouldn't be on the road. Roads are probably the most stressful things in this world.

I can still empathise, however. I have been there. I failed my driver's test in South Africa because the examiner didn't find his beer-tip in the glove box. He checked. After not finding anything inside, he directed me to drive through a proudly South African taxi rank in a nearby high-density housing area. Anyone who has ever been in that situation knows that academically following the "rules" is a recipe for manslaughter and that a little interpretation is required just because of the sheer number of pedestrians running across the road in every direction, standing about, trying to sell wire chickens, fruit and vegetables in the middle of the road and generally ignoring cars. Needless to say, he took exception to my "interpretation". I didn't hit anything or anyone, however, and, now that I have my license, I would still choose interpretation in that situation.

In reply to gethin_allen:

You were still insured as you were still accompanied by a professional ADI or examiner.

Its is a ploy used by lots of ADI's so that you dont drive after the test pass or fail.

In reply to CharlieMack:


Yeah,it does seem abit unfair but if your in control of the car then technically your the one in charge of the vehicle and also the one who's liable if anything should happen.

In reply to Richard Wilson:



Not driving after the test is a good idea I guess (as experienced by the op) new drivers are dangerous enough when calm and collected* so a new driver in a bit of an emotional state is not ideal.

*not saying I was any different, I just realise with hindsight how "learning to drive" didn't prepare me at all for real driving.

In reply to jkarran:


People often switch of their higher judgement when driving a car and following orders. One of the reasons I dislike SatNav units with spoken / barked orders.

In reply to gethin_allen:

As a driving instructor I would never let anyone drive back from test. Pass or fail, they are not in the right frame of mind. I've never felt the need to lie about the reason however, they would be insured.

The better instructors teach people how to drive so they would be confident and competent in real-life, after that, passing the test is easy.

Two factors make this difficult;
a) Its hard to instruct to a high level, many instructors find it easier to just teach test routes.
b) Many of the clients just want to get through as cheaply as possible.

A top tip for all candidates is just do what you think is sensible and feel free to ignore anything that sounds dangerous or unreasonable.

I had a lovely client recently who was told to "take the next road on the right".
She thought this looked complicated and busy so instead took the next left, and passed.

You cannot fail for not following direction. Only if your driving is deficient.

In reply to Wsdconst:


And that's the question. At what point did the test finish? At the point where the OP is told congrats you've passed and the box on the form ticked, or after the car is parked?

In reply to Dan Arkle:
I remember my driving instructor stressing this point repeatedly.

In reply to Bootrock:

Seeing as we're making sweeping generalisations.. did you go to the School of Hard Knocks and graduate from the University of Life ?

In reply to wintertree:


I appreciate that and I have a little sympathy but it's a driving test: 'following orders' to back into a fence does not demonstrate an adequate standard of driving/judgement.

I'm not defending the assessor, he sounds like a prat if the OP is taken at face value.
jk

In reply to Dan Arkle:




Yeah, for my LGV I had two days instead of the usual four and it was the test route to the exclusion of everything else. To the extent of 'brake at this lampost, shift down at the bus stop.' Didn't go well. Big contrast to when I learned to drive a car.

In reply to Lion Bakes:


I suppose it's a weird situation where either answer could be seen as both right and wrong.

In reply to Wsdconst:

I believe the test finishes when the engine stops. Starting the debrief in advance of this is a bit naughty.

In reply to Gone:

The test is over when the examiner says.

That is the end of the test.

In reply to Dan Arkle:

On the morning of my driving test my instructor directed me to head for the test centre via a rather tricky junction that we had never done during my lessons. Not quite panicking, I questioned him on this. His response (which made perfect sense to me) was that I was ready for my test so I should be able to handle it. Passed my test with 3 minors and to this day I wonder what effect that junction had on my mindset/confidence.