Running a marathon at WR pace with periodic 10min. Rests

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 JLS 22 Jul 2016
A comment on another thread got me wondering how fit you'd need to be to run a marathon at WR pace with as many 10min breaks as you like. Even if you were going to do 1/4mile efforts at the required pace, 108 of them are going to take their toll. So the question I'm left with... What's the slowest marathon time that could be converted to WR pace by adding in "some" (as few or as many as required) 10min. rest periods.

Anyone care to speculate?
 humptydumpty 22 Jul 2016
In reply to JLS:

If I've understood the question correctly, as the length of distance between rests tends to zero, the time tends to inifinity.
XXXX 22 Jul 2016
In reply to JLS:

I can provide a marker? I am a sub39 10k runner, sub19 5k runner. My 400m intervals used to be at about 1:20 which is 10 seconds too slow for 1/4 mile efforts. (WR marathon is about 1:10)

You have to drop to 100m efforts at around 17 seconds for my abilities to match WR marathon pace. Admittedly I've never trained for 100m efforts and with a few months of focused training I might be able to match it over 200m.

At 100m, that's 420 efforts of 10:17 which is about 3 days


 The New NickB 22 Jul 2016
In reply to JLS:
95% of the population couldn't manage the first 400m rep.

Of the 5%, 90% would not find that 70s 400m super comfortable and you would have to find them super comfortable to do 100+, even over 12 hours.

I think realistically you are looking at sub 31 minute 10k runners.
Post edited at 13:56
OP JLS 22 Jul 2016
In reply to humptydumpty:

Well yes, but realistically I think the challenge will only be possible by an elite runner with relatively few 10 minutes rest. Say maybe some already able to do a 2:10 marathon having say 4 x 10min rests.

OP JLS 22 Jul 2016
In reply to XXXX:

I managed just under 1:30 for the half (long time ago). As you point out that sort of Joe Average ability just wouldn't be convertible into WR pace without it ending in an unfeasible large number of intervals.
 The New NickB 22 Jul 2016
In reply to JLS:

> Well yes, but realistically I think the challenge will only be possible by an elite runner with relatively few 10 minutes rest. Say maybe some already able to do a 2:10 marathon having say 4 x 10min rests.

I think the efforts would be too long for the rests available.
OP JLS 22 Jul 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

So what do you reckon would be the optimum schedule of efforts/10 min rests?

 Angrypenguin 22 Jul 2016
In reply to JLS:

What an interesting question, consensus seems to be that even with rests you have to be very very good to be world class.

A similar question could be asked of climbing - in a very hand wavey sense, I propose that if a climber can redpoint 6a then perhaps they could go clip to clip on a 6b and not complete a 6c. This seems to me like a climber can access a greater range of difficulties (speeds if you are running) than a runner. The difference I guess is that climbing is less intensely focussed discipline that requires a wider range of physiological and mental skills. This is probably why I enjoy climbing more than running - while I will never climb 8a, I feel I have more to work on and more progress to make compared to running.
 The New NickB 22 Jul 2016
In reply to JLS:

I think if you could run 1 mile comfortably in 4:40, 10 minutes recovery between each mile might be sufficient.
 tony 22 Jul 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

> I think if you could run 1 mile comfortably in 4:40, 10 minutes recovery between each mile might be sufficient.

And as a follow-up, if 4.40 is comfortable, how fast is your best mile? In other words, what's the gap between your race pace and comfortable 4.40 pace?
OP JLS 22 Jul 2016
In reply to Angrypenguin:

I think I disagree. As pointed out above WR marathon pace approximates to 17 sec 100m so in a sense that "speed" is open to a lot of people even if they have no hope of maintaining it. Rock climbing is, in my view, in more binary. A 6a climber would more than likely not be able to find the starting holds on an 9b+ let alone pull on. I do agree climbing is more intresting than running.

 wintertree 22 Jul 2016
In reply to JLS:

Assuming you only count time spend running even a lard arse like me could do it.

I'd just sprint as far as I could at 13 mph then chain 144 10-minute rests together and then go again. Give me half a year and I'll have done it.

Perhaps you need to specific that no two or more breaks may be contiguous in time, and speculate both on time running and total time.
 The New NickB 22 Jul 2016
In reply to tony:
> And as a follow-up, if 4.40 is comfortable, how fast is your best mile? In other words, what's the gap between your race pace and comfortable 4.40 pace?

You are probably talking about someone capable of close to 4 minutes, so very good, but maybe 15-20 seconds off WR pace.
Post edited at 14:41
 SouthernSteve 22 Jul 2016
In reply to The New NickB:

> I think if you could run 1 mile comfortably in 4:40, 10 minutes recovery between each mile might be sufficient.

That's
if my maths is correct - await flaming and correction

6.18 hours for complete rests
4.15 hours walking rests for 10 mins at 18 min miles.

I can't imagine doing it though.
If you need to do a 2 hour marathon you need to run at 13 miles / hour which is 4:35 with no rests

I have been doing quite a lot of these calculations recently to decide how best to get round an ultra with not quite enough training!
OP JLS 22 Jul 2016
In reply to wintertree:

No, no it's quite clear, only 10 min rests are allow. At the very least you'd need to take one stride every 10 minutes. I think that's your lard arse ruled out.

malcolmx 22 Jul 2016
In reply to JLS:

I'll throw my hat in:
My 10km personal best is 32 min (long time ago ) and would have been able to do around 8-10 1km reps at wr pace (2:55 /km). If i would break it into 400m intervals, i suppose i could got to 20km (which would take more than 15 hours), but there is no way i could have gone past 30km, no matter how short the intervals, because you are just spent after doing this for a couple hours.

So i think you need be able to do it in 1km or longer intervals. To do 42 1km intervals at that pace, i am pretty sure that you need to be a sub 30 min@10km runner, which translates into a sub 2:20 marathon.
 bouldery bits 22 Jul 2016
In reply to JLS:

17 days.
 wbo 23 Jul 2016
In reply to Malcolmx - are you sure you could run 8 - 10 times a km at that pace. If so your 32 mins is a poor time as at my best that would have been a struggle, and I've run a bunch of 0 races.

What's suggested is hard - to get to halfway is hard work and most people can't do it., and most good club runners would struggle with 10x a km. Breaking it down to 400's for the man on the street wouldn't work as you'll simply be out there so long most folk will fall to pieces long, long before the finish.

For those familiar with things like the national 12 stage world rec. marathon pace will comfortably win that I think.

 Big Ger 23 Jul 2016
In reply to JLS:

I did 1.30 for the half, back in 1982, I did 3.30 for the full the next year.

I packed it all in after that as the toll on my knees and ankles was phenomenal
malcolmx 23 Jul 2016
In reply to wbo:

I am not sure, but if i remember it correctly i once did 5x1km around that pace with a 5 min rest in training. So if i had increased the rest to 10 min and treat it as a competition i guess a few more reps would have possible. On a side note, my 1500m best is 4:02, so 2:55/km is relavitely comfortable and 10 min break is enough get rid of a lot of lactate acid.

But don't get my wrong, 8 reps would have been a huge struggle and getting to 10 km would have been brutal.
 adamkitson 23 Jul 2016
In reply to JLS:

I really only said it to make a point, didn't mean it literally!

Good topic though! My marathon time is about 4 hrs. Realistically I think I could only probably cut about 20 mins off that with a few 10 min rests. I think I could cut it a lot more with a few months dedicated training and less dietary "slip ups".

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