UKH

I'm off to the Alps at the start of August. It'll be the first time we'll have done any alpine mountaineering (around 4 years experience Scottish winter).

Spent plenty of time reading, planning and thinking, but figured you can't beat first had experience so thought I'd pose the question on here.

Doing the usual thing of heading to Chamonix with a overarching aim of climbing Mont Blanc & currently planning acclimatisation days & kit lists.

So, for those who have such experience, what would be your top tip(s)?

Thinking: useful kit, general knowledge or advice, preparations, or anything else you think would be useful...

Cheers!

In reply to peachos:

Get very fit. Very very fit. Think very heavy sacks on 20 mile hikes.

In reply to peachos:

Don't underestimate the importance of rehearsing crevasse rescue before you jump on a glacier. The instance of your mate suddenly disappearing down a dark icy hole is not the first time to put the theory into practice.

Try not to cram too many big routes into the given timeframe of your trip, chances are you'll beast yourself and end up hating it.

In chamonix, go chat to the guys in the Office de Haute Montagne (right in the middle of town). They know their stuff. The two main routes up Mont Blanc both have a significant element of objective danger (avalanche/serac fall on the Trois Monts, rockfall on the approach to the Gouter Hut) which can change significantly with the weather, glacial conditions etc. Website also posts updates on conditions in the area.

http://www.chamoniarde.com/?page_id=1863&lang=en

Also, you do sometimes see a bit of the sheep mentality in cham... make your own decision regarding the safety of a route when you see it, don't just commit because you see others doing it. People have different perceptions of the acceptable level of risk... (see again serac/avalanche/rockfall etc).

Lastly, enjoy it! It's an awesome place, back again in September...

In reply to peachos:
Don't carry too much gear,this perhaps is the most common mistake that Brits make. Don't overstretch yourselves, you need to keep plenty in the tank. Make use of the hut system. When on the route don't keep stopping to change footwear, put on/take off crampons etc., try to keep going with what you have on. The decision to wear rock boots/crampons needs to be taken early and you should try to stick with what you decide even though it may be awkward at times. Stay well hydrated. Dehydration is one of the major contributors to altitude sickness. Get the weather forecasts and if it's not good be prepared to change your plans. Start early to get to the foot of the route, this may mean midnight. Reccy the approach the night before. Get good at moving together, if you have to pitch everything, as you might in the UK, you will not make the recommended guidebook times and may get benighted. If you can achieve guide book times frequently you will be in a position to consider harder routes. Be very careful on the descent, especially when abseiling, I believe most accidents happen then.

Al

In reply to peachos:

Will echo the advice to get fit. I thought I was in pretty good shape until I hit the Alps for the first time! If you're going for Mont Blanc then try and get a 4000'er in to help with the acclimatisation, it is a long slog to the top.

Be prepared to be flexible with your plans, the first year I tried to do Mont Blanc we ended up canning it so its good to keep your options open in case the Weather turns against you! Chamonix is awesome, you'll have a great time.

In reply to Fredt:

Think 40litres bags, carrying just what you need and cover as much scrambling terrain as you can. If can't get by with a 40litres bag in the Alps, then you are all most certainly carrying too much.

Big bags wreck joints, you can get fit by going fast and far, not by carrying big weights.

Stay hydrated, at all times. Eat well, between the blasts climbing.

To cover the ground efficiently, keep admin breaks to a minimum. If you stop to get your sun glasses out at dawn, torch away, drink, suncream on, loose a layer of clothing etc.. all at the same time and crack on. If you spent all your time stopping for these individually, the early morning when snow is good and firm will disappear before you know it.

Take baby wipes for hut toilets or even to just wash hands before eating anywhere and/or antibacterial gel. Some places are pretty manky and you don't want to pick up bugs, a dose of the trotts, in a harness midway across a glacier is not most peoples idea of fun.

Spend a few hours every evening the week before you going, taking in, tying off, dropping coils etc... practice everything that is practical before you get there, then you'll be slick.

In reply to peachos:

Long, slow runs. This 1-3 hours, jogging, on trails.

Hillwalking days. Think 10 hours on the go, meandering around Munros with camping gear.

Just because you lead XYZ, don't jump on a route with a crux of around that grade. Start easy and work your way up, make sure you are hitting or beating guidebook time. A harder route in easy conditions will be a lot easier than an easy route in bad conditions.

Practive crevasse rescue and not just rigging a 3:1 pulley, learn to turn the 3:1 into a 6:1 (it's not hard) and practice making anchors. Ice screws, ice axe, deadman...most places where you might go down a slot, screws are not that useful. Learn how to stay perpendicular to slots when walking across a glacier, where to have your coils tied off (for second person/lighter person on a rope it can be better to have the weight go through a prussik lower down rather than higher up due to centre of balance). Read and practice everything you can about crevasse rescue and staying safe on glaciers. Make your mate do the same.

Get a tibloc and a micro traxion.

Get a decent foam mat (z-lite or similar).

Don't do the Gouter...I came down it once and thought that if it were my only experience of the alps I'd have probably given up, it is a bit grim.

Stay safe and have a great time.

R

In reply to peachos:

Get a copy of this:

http://www.needlesports.com/3837/products/alpinism.aspx

Still seems pretty good advice to me.

In reply to peachos:
Bruce Goodlad's book is great.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Alpine-Mountaineering-Essential-Knowledge-Alpinist...

Also, earplugs for the huts!

And learn not to faff.

In reply to Rob Exile Ward:

BMC DVD is also good https://www.thebmc.co.uk/alpine-essentials-dvd

In reply to peachos: Be prepared to bail out if conditions change. Don't be pressurised into trying to get all your planned routes done in a short space of time if conditions aren't right. Remember the hills will be there next year. There's always plenty of fun to be had lower down in the valley or on the lesser hills.

Bivvi'ing at the boulders just near the hut on the Argentiere is awesome.

As a previous poster said don't blindly follow the crowd. Make your own decisions.

Be aware of the objective danger from large guided parties and the minority of unfriendly guides.

When carrying food and cooking kit, work out whether it is more efficient to carry unappetising dehydrated food and enough fuel to melt snow and boil water, or carry something more tasty from the deli which just needs warming through. If you are able to, eat in the huts.

Give some thought to doing less popular routes. The classics are often very crowded and that can ruin the fun and sense of acheivement.

It is no longer acceptable for british climbers to steal food from the supermarket in Cham in the name of alpinism. Have fun and find time to enjoy a few beers.

In reply to peachos:
Advice you do not want ..... go somewhere else rather than MtBlanc for your first time where you can get used to snow climbing, axe use etc in a less critical area, for instance, the easy 4000m peaks in the Valais around the Allalinhorn.

In reply to peachos:

Work out how long you think each section of a route will take to climb, and double it.

Work out what you think your pace will be on the approaches, and half it.

And most important of all...

...If in doubt, bail out.

In reply to peachos:

Everything you take with you, apart from your "team", is expendable; without a second thought, if necessary.

In reply to peachos:

Remove the marker tapes from the end of your ropes. These cause 90% of all 'stuck ropes' on abseils that I've had.

Be realistic with your plans. Be prepared to change them all the time.

Don't get "Mont Blanc" Tunnel vision. There are other mountains out there, no one will class you as a failure if you don't climb it.

Catch the lifts up if they are available. Who wants to waste good weather walking up from the valley.

Don't come back to the campsite with 0.5ltr of water left in your water bottle. That won't win you a prize or any respect. If you had drunk it all sensibly through the day then you would have been in the bar 2 hrs ago and not lying down knackered in the campsite.

Climb what you want to climb, not what you think your peers expect you to climb.

In reply to peachos:

A few thoughts on preparation:

It makes sense to get used to doing trad routes in big boots. Slanting Butress on Llewidd is good. You should be able to move together on some of the pitches and get used to changing over from moving-together to pitching sections.

Also on Llewidd is the Route II/ Red Wall/ Longlands combination - A good 1000' Severe that would get you used to the exposure & isolation of a big route - good to do it in big boots if you can. Continue to the top of Snowdon and reverse the horse-shoe for a taste of a big alpine day out.

There are much better things to do in the area than the Mont Blanc trade routes- why not postpone it until you're up to doing the Brenva Spur or similar?

Have a great trip!

In reply to Ian Parsons:


You mean like ropes, gear, axes, stoves, down jacket, sleeping bag, bivi tent etc etc?

You must be able to go really well on a smile and a reassuring hug?

In reply to peachos:

Thanks for the advice so far...keep it coming!!

Have been working on fitness - done some big days & overnighters in the hills and started running again.

Already read Peter Cliff's book, will see if I can get Bruce Goodlad's on the cheap.

Really like some of the less obvious ideas, like taking baby wipes to huts, keeping well hydrated (something I probably don't do properly when I'm in the hills).

I fear that efficiency will be the biggest issue - we're a mixed team, with different levels of mountaineering & winter experience (though we all have some). I guess a we need to sort out a few more trips to dial in ropework and moving together.

Crevasse rescue is something I've been thinking a lot about. Can practice anywhere before we go, but do you think it's worthwhile getting a day with a guide/instructor when we first arrive in the valley??

As for target fixation - MB is a team goal I admit, but my personal goal is to just get out and enjoy some fine alpine mountains. If we didn't summit, for whatever reason, I wouldn't be too upset as long as we have great days elsewhere. After struggling to book huts and reading stuff about the Gouter route, I'm a little put off already, though it would be ace to stand up there.

Some great advice - meeting some of my companions this weekend to do some planning, so plenty to talk about. Much thanks!

In reply to peachos:

Guide book descriptions:

Alpine guidebooks necessarily only highlight the major features. It can be disconcerting to be searching for the 'Obvious notched gendarme', only to encounter it two pitches later.

Guidebook times can be doubled, until you get more experience.

Take a decent compact camera - you will see some amazing things that normal people can't imagine.

In reply to peachos:
You can learn crevasse rescue in the UK. You can hire an MIA Instructor (coughs...) who can teach you the methods. I know of one instructor (coughs...) who has just run an Alpine Preparation Day in the Peak District and would happliy run more

In reply to Jim Walton:

After instruction on crevasse rescue in the UK, on your first day in Chamonix take the train up to Montenvers and spend some time walking around on the Mer de Glace. Walk around 2km up the glacier and practice your crevasse rescue technique on some of the shallow ditches near the ladders to the Envers refuge. There are big boulders around to use as bomber anchors, but try building your own in the ice as well. There are steeper, deeper, more-realistic ditches the further up the glacier you go.

If you've got any time left, do a bit of slab climbing by the ladders on the way back up to Montenvers. Grades 4 to 7.

In reply to peachos:

Early start

Early start

Early start

Move fast and safely

Don't underestimate the size of the mountains - they are MUCH bigger undertakings than say a romp up Snowdon via Crib Goch

In reply to Fredt:


True.

But do NOT mistake fitness for aclimitisation, they are quite different.

Also, if those pesky continentals are all turning back, there is probably a good reason for it, so do not be afraid to do the same. In fact, never be afraid to turn back on an Alpine route, always be aware of your bale-out options. Unless it is the sort where you are committed to finish it beyond a certain point, then you HAVE to carry on, but it is best not to try that sort of route until you have established your competence.

In reply to Trangia:

one of my usual pre alps training days, would be climb or scramble on Milestone then East Face of Tryfan, same again up G. Fach, Over the Glyders & down to Pen y Pass. Then either Crib Goch or down an around to Parson Nose, up Snowdon, then onward to where ever we were finishing. Plenty of ascent and booted climbing.

In reply to Roberttaylor:

Agree with the Munros sentiment - great way to get fit.

Skye and the Great Ridges of the Ben are particularly useful.

Having a wee bit of conversational French is also very useful - I have in the past been able to ask in Guides offices about conditions. They are only willing to help fellow climbers!

M

In reply to summo:

How do you get between glyders and crib goch without having to walk up pen-y-pass from gwastadnant? never been to that area just looking at maps now is there a direct path/way down to the pen-y-pass car park? fancy doing this at the weekend

In reply to Simon4:

That basically covers it. Rule number 1, come home at the end.

In reply to tingle:

The Engineer's path goes straight down to Pen Y Pass I thought? Red dots.

In reply to blurty:

cant see anything on my electronic copy of OS will look at paper at home, im sure it will become obvious when i arrive! thanks for your reply

In reply to tingle:

Sorry, I wasn't dissing your map reading skills! What I meant is that, unusually, the Engineer's path is physically marked with red dots/ splashes of paint to mark its course.

In reply to peachos:

Enjoy the process of becoming an alpine climber step by step at a pace that suits you, perhaps making successive routes focus on something new or different. For example, since you are going to Cham:
1) A multi pitch sport climbing route with easy access in the Aiguilles Rouges. Great views to familiarise yourself with the range, possible bivvy.
2) As above but linking routes together to get used to more pitches for a long day
2) A route like the Crochues Traverse to practice and develop skills in moving roped together on varying terrain
3) Moving roped together on a dry glacier plus crevasse rescue practice ( This can be done on a poor weather day and linked to exploring / ice climbing fun and trying different crampon and axe techniques up and down increasingly steep slopes )
4) Developing crevasse rescue skills on snow ( building snow anchors while someone has their weight on the rope ). Snow patches around the Aiguilles Rouges or perhaps near a hut such as the Albert Premier, so this can be at the end of a day or after a hut approach.
5) Developing crevasse rescue skills on a wet glacier, more like the real deal!
6) Link everything together by doing a route that isn't too long or too high. Eg a 3,000 metre peak with uncomplicated glacier approach, descent, some scrambling or easy or you climbing. Eg; Aiguille de Tour, Entreves traverse, Tour Ronde
7) Add extra ingredients one at a time such as harder technical grade, longer route / time, extra altitude rather than increasing all at once.


Sometimes it pays to base yourself in a hut for several days from which you can do a variety of increasingly challenging routes rather than going back to the valley every time. Albert Premier / Torino / Cosmiques.
Finally, have plans a,b,c to Z! This may include being prepared to valley or mid mountain crag when weather high up is not so good. Moving to a different side of the range or a different area. Go rock climbing in Italy if the weather really craps out. Get loads of climbing in by being flexible in route and area choice rather than sitting in the valley playing cards and drinking beer waiting for your chosen route to come into condition. This usually means lots of research and buying lots of guidebooks, maps. There is always something climbable / in condition.

Have fun, see you out there

In reply to tingle:

the obvious answer is you navigate, but there is a rough trail, straight off the back of G Fawr, almost South and you come out through the gate next to the PyP hostel. To hit gwastadnant you need to drop off G Fawr down to Llyn Cwn first then picking up the path in the cwm bottom to get through the fields, or head along to Y Garn and kind of back work a 14 peaks route down to Nant Peris.

For alps training though rocky scrambling terrain is probably better practise, so I'd stay a little higher and traverse round from PyP to Cwm Glas.

the miners track (engineers?), heads round all the glyders to the east, after first cutting through Bwlch Tryfan.

In reply to summo:

Yeah thats what i mean i hoped to avoid gwastadnant, cheers

In reply to peachos:

Practice your mornings. From hearing the alarm to on the hill in the dark.

In reply to peachos:

Get up early, eat plenty of food and most important, drink a lot of water. If you run out of water and its hot, and you have a jetboil or similar, I guarantee that you will make up any time lost through stopping and melting water just by being properly hydrated. And itll be way more enjoyable. This is one of the hardest things to accept/ learn, im still learning it. Those hydration electrolyte tablets are a pretty good addition too, wheb your sweating out all your salts

In reply to peachos:

I asked a similar question a few years ago and got a load of really useful replies

http://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/t.php?n=547496&v=1#x7319435

In reply to peachos:

"Light is Right." Look at the kit you are taking and see if you can get the weight down, not necessarily binning but taking lighter items - then consider replacing the weight saved with water When I did Mont Blanc it was carrying a thirty litre sack which contained my lunch box, water bottle and shell jacket which was a thin nylon Helly Hansen waterproof which folded into it's own pocket. That was light, but by necessity as I had no kit!

If you come across any top tips (AK's blog; suggestions here; books like "Extreme Alpinism" by Twight and other sources) then be disciplined enough to learn it and not, as I do, think it's a great idea and never revisit again.

Not sure why you have started running as your bike fitness will serve you very well. My Mont Blanc trip was during my late teens when stacking in plenty of road biking miles. Long steady rides on the bike may serve you better but break habits (efficiency) and force yourself to do long climbs out of the saddle for core strength.

Get into a good buddy system and look after each other. Check each other's rope work, it's easy to make a mistake if you are feeling tired and under pressure. Someone I knew abbed off the end of their ropes, having failed to knot them, and he was one of the last people I would have expected to do that.

As mentioned above, take plenty of photos.

In reply to Ghastlyrabbitfat:

Cheers Dave!

"Not sure why you have started running as your bike fitness will serve you very well" - I suppose your 'break habits' comment is why & to build up some more impact resistance.

"Light is Right." just cost me £70 on a new jacket...

In reply to bensilvestre:

Just to clarify, having a small / lightweight stove on a multi day route is great / vital. Personally, on day routes, I make sure I am hydrated well the day before and in the morning, hydrate well post route and accept I will be thirsty during a long day and cope with a litre to two litres depending on route length, type, weather and conditions. I wouldn't normally carry a stove on a day route.
Also, drinking lots of water quickly ( especially cold water ) leads to peeing more. Think liquids rather than water. So soups as part of your meal, squashes, homemade or bought isotonic drinks / powders / tablets.
Having said all that; being thirsty and mild dehydration goes with the territory, more severe dehydration will quickly lead to a drop in performance, mood, brain function etc. so it is important to self and group monitor and find what works for you.

In reply to Ghastlyrabbitfat:


That's not the prevailing wisdom. Cycling is highly efficient, you may get a bit of a shock when you have to support both your own weight and that of your pack on your own two feet for several hours.

In reply to peachos:

When your are doing a multi day route just because smashed the guide book time one day, does not mean you will smash it the next day...even if you think you earned a lie in

In reply to planetmarshall:

I was not following "prevailing wisdom" but speaking from my own experience, having found very good cycling levels of fitness translated to moving fast on the hill, including with big loads (ex Scottish MRT). Climbing out of the saddle recruits far more muscle groups, which is why I suggested breaking the efficiency of steady seated riding to improve the effectiveness of cycling as training.

Knowing Peachos, the last thing he would do is ride steadily on a road bike, anyhow.

In reply to Ghastlyrabbitfat:


If cycling is what you enjoy, then great. But as training for Alpinism it's a less specific method than trail running and hill walking. The efficiency of the bike also means you require more time to get the same aerobic benefit, in addition to using a smaller range of motion.

In reply to planetmarshall:

Paradoxically, some of my most successful alpine trips in both enjoyment and grade terms have been when I considered myself to be unfit. Walking uphill with a heavy pack is a special kind of fitness best achieved by walking up a hill with a heavy pack and perhaps I have done so much of that, that my body and mind have just given up and learned to accept the pain.

Al

In reply to peachos:

Do as much walking uphill as you can with a heavy sack. Alpinism is mostly walking uphill with a heavy sack. Except when you are walking downhill with a heavy sack. Yes a I know "light is right" and all that, but your sack will still be quite heavy unless you are underequipped or doing trivial routes and using huts rather than biviing.

In reply to peachos:

It's obvious and although you will know all this already it's worth highlighting.

Protect yourself from the sun. Factor 50, glacier glasses, hat, lip salve etc. The euro alps are getting warmer in summer my friend - climate change is afoot!

I know it's been said before but if your doing MB you gotta start early. I could be wrong but if it's your first trip out, you're in a mixed ability group and perhaps not had time to acclimatise as much as you would have liked etc - then you will probably be moving slower than you would want.

I'm not sure what route your planning so there is no point saying what time early is, but if you say I'm sure someone will confirm. Certainly leaving the auiguil du midi area for the 3M's route by, or before 1am would be a reasonably start for a mixed group.

Lastly, you might have experienced this to a lesser extent in Scottish winter climbing (but I hope your route choice means you haven't) - the human risk factor on popular routes in the alps can be significant (starting early will help reduce this!). Wear a helmet even if your on straight forward terrain like mont blanc du tacul, keep your rope work on point, be considerate when it comes to passing by other groups, but be clear in communication - don't allow your team to be placed in danger by hot shots who want to climb all over you, clip your runners, pull on your rope etc.

In reply to peachos:

Get fit, really fit and acclimatise loads. Not a quick jaunt on the Cosmiques but a full Alpine peak, obviously less demanding than your objective but high, and one that involves an overnight stay. Use the refuges, self-catering saves a shed-load of money but find out what's available beforehand as many private refuges won't let you do this. Join the BMC or AAC.

Pack light but don't go overboard. Drink lots of water and eat regularly. Recce the start of the route the night before. Take a spare headtorch, not just batteries. Take lots of tat and slings. Practise moving together and soloing on easier rock (VD/S). Get used to using an indirect belay off fixed gear and learn how to use an Italian hitch. Practise multiple abseils. Get used to longer pitches than in the UK (40m+ is common in the Dolomites, for example) so concentrate on your ropework to prevent drag.

Check the meteo and don't even consider a harder route if the weather looks dodgy. Ask at the guides' office for advice on the approaches to routes and refuges. Learn a bit of French, Italian or German as many of the better guidebooks are not available in English. Leave your Alpine Club guidebook at home - they are worse than useless.

That was a longer list than expected. Of course last year on Piz Badille I completely failed to take my own advice on acclimatisation!

Peter
--

In reply to peachos:

It won't be winter and so don't wear stuff as though it is. The pre dawn starts can be a little cool though not always. A wicking tshirt and a light windproof top plus lightweight stretch soft shell trousers are usually enough.
Don't leave the hut in bad weather
Take a book, if all goes well you'll be back at a hut by early afternoon latest. Plenty of time to relax.
Prepare your kit, including basics like your water before you eat at night so you can just pick it up and go in the morning.
An altimeter watch is invaluable for nav especially if the weather closes in unexpectedly.
Good pair of glacier glasses / goggles.
Sun cream, double the factor of what you normally use. Once the sun hits that glacier you get fried.
Don't linger if the snow is getting soft, you need to get down as quickly and safely as you can. Soft snow above heavily crevassed slopes is not a nice place to find yourself.

In reply to Lion Bakes:

I would add that sun cream placement is important too - don't forget to put it on the underside of your face! I had never experienced sunburn inside my nostrils until I went to the alps.

In reply to Lion Bakes:

Most of what you say is pretty sound, but can't agree with that.

It is true that novices tend to overdress, but it can get bitterly cold at altitude when the wind strikes, also you can get caught out by darkness and forced to bivi, when it will be bitterly cold. Spare gloves, spare hats and at least one substantial warm jacket are essential, also long underwear can be very useful indeed, as it is light for the massive improvement in warmth it gives. True, it is not Winter, nor normally as cold in routine conditions, but if a storm comes in by surprise, or if you have to wait for some reason, it can be bitter.

You need the backup.

In reply to Simon4:

True but there are lighter warmth to weight and bulk options than you suggest, especially for a first summer alpine peak where you won't venture out in all but the best conditions and forecasts.

In reply to Lion Bakes:

Having been caught out in various un forecast alpine storms.. would suggest these are considered!
Bruce Goodlad's book recommended above covers all this..

In reply to Mark Haward:

Obviously not gonna stay hydrated 100% but on a decent sized push id argue that its worth being able to get more than a couple of litres in you. Especially in the sun. Any time lost through brewing up is gained by increased performance, not to mention increased safety and enjoyment. Obviously it just doesnt apply to some routes, say short rock routes at the envers, but just carrying a straw or similar can be very useful at no extra weight gain. For the OPs sake i'll emphasise what you said - don't drink loads at once, drink little and often, certain everytime you eat.

Training wise load bearing exercise such as running and walking are far more applicable than cycling. Most important is don't beast yourself, spend a lot of time at a pace you can sustain. You'll gain a lot more from a 6 hour walk than a 1 hour run

In reply to peachos:

ALPINE STARTS!

No time to read the full thread, but this is my main advice. Get up early, any beginner will be slower than guidebook times, and getting off the summits by lunchtime is essential. Snow conditions usually crap out during the day, stable firn in the morning will degenerate to slush, making steep slopes dangerous, snow bridges you safely crossed in the morning will become unstable, etc. Most of of all, 2pm is thunderstorm time!

CB

In reply to peachos:

You my find it too warm by August for many snow routes, it's even possible rock routes accessed by glacier could be dangerous due to weakened snow bridges. For snow or ice routes it's often better to go earlier,

In reply to peachos:

Take loads of ab tat.

Personally I favour 10mm tape as it goes in thin cracks more easily than cord, though you need to check for sharp edges and if necessary modify them with your hammer. Take lots to Cham and then take quite a bit of it on each route rather than have to waste half a day going shopping when you run out. Actually, the same goes for the rest of your rack - take lots to base camp, then just take a bit of it on the route, then if you have to abandon anything you'll have spare stuff in your tent for the next route.

Apart from that, as per what everyone else has said above.

In reply to Stephen Reid - Needle Sports:

I've found quite often on rock routes in the alps the abseil anchors weren't connected and you occasionally needed to replace the tat joining them together as there was only a mallion in place to ab off one of the anchors.