Waterproof shell: how much and which one?

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 Postmanpat 20 May 2016

It's decades since I bought a waterproof shell. I'm looking for something for 3 or maybe 4 season UK use, walking and climbing and possibly a little summer Alpine. I'm not one who chooses to go out for 12 hours in a downpour but need something that is reliable if it turns out that way. I assume that with optional layering of eg.a wicking layer, a fleece, softshell, down, that a waterproof shell is the way forward for an outer layer?

So how much need I pay for a decent product and has anyone got any recommendations?

2
 Andy Hardy 20 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:

Just bought one of these for summer http://www.decathlon.co.uk/forclaz-400-mens-blue-yellow-id_8355719.html (Sorry Stephen Reid). I have a paramo something for winter which is a lot heavier.
OP Postmanpat 20 May 2016
In reply to Andy Hardy:

> Just bought one of these for summer http://www.decathlon.co.uk/forclaz-400-mens-blue-yellow-id_8355719.html (Sorry Stephen Reid). I have a paramo something for winter which is a lot heavier.

When you say "heavier", what does this involve: thicker material for better waterproofing, or to be harder wearing, or insulation for warmth?
 tony 20 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:

Depending on your size, you might find something suitable on SportsPursuit:
http://www.sportpursuit.com/warehouse-sale

In particular, they have a bunch of Arcteryx stuff at prices which are bit less eye-watering than usual. I have an Arcteryx Alpha, which is probably the best waterproof jacket I've had. However, there's no way I would have paid full price - the old PlanetFear discounts at the KMFF were an excellent source of bargains!
 Trangia 20 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:

After decades of trying to find a truly long lasting breathable "waterproof" I finally discovered Paramo Analogy a couple of years ago. In terms of performance and hard wearing it beats any previous waterproof I've owned including The North Face, Berghaus, Peter Storm and Regatta, all of which performed well for about a year before failing even with regular re-proofing treatment.

Paramo also requires regular washing and reproofing, but it works, and performs like new every time.

As has been said the jackets tend to be on the "heavier" side, and wear very warm, being better suited for winter use, but you don't need to wear much under. In summer all I wear is a base layer.

Price wise you are probably looking in the region of £300, but you should be able to get that reduced with your BMC discount.
 TobyA 20 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:

If you have a decent softshell or similar which you actually wear when its not peeing down, get something light and packable for when it is. http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=8247 for instance, although of course other brands are available.

So much choice though, probably talking 150 to 300 if you go for a mainstream brand. Own fabrics tend to be much cheaper than goretex/event/neoshell, but many say as- or nearly as good. Decathlon for the cheaper option but still rather good according to plenty.

Decide what features you want, helmet compatible hood etc. how much to spend and how much you will wear it as opposed to carry it and people can probably make some specific suggestions.
 MG 20 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:

Wander round the shops in Keswick or Llanberis or somewhere and they normally have a good selection in lasts years colours much reduced. Of course we will all laugh at you in the wrong colour if you buy one.
 Roguevfr 20 May 2016
In reply to MG:

The wrong colour is almost always green. HTH.
 Andypeak 20 May 2016
In reply to Trangia:

you can pick up paramo stuff new massively reduced on ebay direct from Paramo as long as you are happy with bright colours.
 Andy Hardy 21 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:

Paramo have a double layer, the inner layer is a thin fleece the outer layer is a tightly woven water repellent. This makes the heavier in weight and warmer as a result.
They did a trade in deal recently so I got £50 off the price of a new one for my old one which they recycle
 TobyA 21 May 2016
In reply to Andy Hardy:

I've never used Paramo, but its interesting that while they have their hardcore fans (and have done for more than 20 years) they also have their real haters too! Some people just seem to find they get drenched in the stuff even when they have very carefully followed all the care instructions.
 Andy Hardy 21 May 2016
In reply to TobyA:

Weirdly this happened to me but the shop took it back and gave me another, which works fine. (Base camp in Stockport)
In reply to Postmanpat:

Something simple and light but appropriately weather proof is best if, like me and many others these days, you're likely to be in soft-shell or some other alternative unless the heavens really open.

Like another responder I recently picked up an Arcteryx Alpha jacket, the AR version, on sport pursuit.com; £230 instead of £460. It fits the criteria above perfectly and is superbly designed. Be warned though, the sizing tends to be generous.

NB - Alpha is their 'alpine' range ands AR = 'all round'. SV/ severe tend to be over-engineered, SL/ super light not intended for worst UK weather.
In reply to Postmanpat:

Have a look at Arcteryx Alpha FL (FL has Goretex Pro, it's different from the SL) . It's a great coat to keep in the rucksack when you usually wear a soft shell, packs small and actually keeps you dry.
 shaymarriott 21 May 2016
In reply to tom_in_edinburgh:

That's what I have - it's brilliant and packs down to nothing...

It's not going to keep you warm though so I tend to wear my Rab Xenon underneath if it looks like it'll get nippy.

A decent packable combo IMO!
 BnB 22 May 2016
In reply to shaymarriott:

> That's what I have - it's brilliant and packs down to nothing...

> It's not going to keep you warm though so I tend to wear my Rab Xenon underneath if it looks like it'll get nippy.

> A decent packable combo IMO!

Don't you get a tad warm on the move in that? I use a Xenon as a (non-epic) Scottish winter belay jacket!!
 alasdair19 22 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:

buy a paramo for winter, cold spring and autumn they work well with just a Base layer and are usually ventable.

get a light cheap emergency shell. you then work to have to think of buying another shell for another ten years. wash carefully and reproof paramo regularly
 DaveHK 22 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:

If you're tempted by Paramo, try it before you buy if you can. It's not for everyone.
 Glyno 22 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:
After decades of trying most products (and working in outdoor retail), I've come to the conclusion that there's little difference performance-wise in a £100 shell and a £400 shell - features and fit, maybe.

In summer months I carry a run-of-the-mill, sub-£100 shell jacket (usually bought in sales) .
Autumn through to spring - it's Paramo, if it gets a bit warm then there's normally plenty of venting options.
Really cold, foul days are taken care of by Buffalo.

However, what works for one person doesn't necessarily work for another.
Post edited at 18:07
OP Postmanpat 25 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:
Thanks to all for the replies. I'd rather suspected that there is no great need to fork out £400 and will aim more for the £100 products!
Post edited at 09:10
 olliehales 25 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:

Marmot pre-clip seems well rated and affordable (think I may go for one of these next). I just use a cheap as chips regatta thing currently - does not breath well at all, however twas £20 not £400 so I can live with that.

I have merino long sleeve and merino short sleeve t-shirts to wear underneath, works for me
 r0b 25 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:

The new Alpkit shells might be worth a look: https://www.alpkit.com/clothing/mens#Outerlayers
 Fraser 25 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:

> Thanks to all for the replies. I'd rather suspected that there is no great need to fork out £400 and will aim more for the £100 products!

I got a Rab Spark on sale last year and it's proved very good in the rains I've been out in. I think I paid about £119 at the time. Cheaper here now:

http://www.joe-brown.com/5460/products/rab-spark-jacket.aspx?origin=pla&...
 Ramon Marin 25 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:

Alpkit are doing some amazing shells. I tested one and they are great for the price, all you expect from the major manufacturers, good waterproofness, decent breathability, packable and light and looks good.
 TobyA 25 May 2016
In reply to Ramon Marin:

> Alpkit are doing some amazing shells. I tested one and they are great for the price, all you expect from the major manufacturers, good waterproofness, decent breathability, packable and light and looks good.

...sponsor the coolest climbers etc.

More seriously, they do look really nice. I was very tempted to buy myself one of their new windshells as that looks very sensible and it only 25 quid.
 Ramon Marin 25 May 2016
In reply to TobyA:

I just got the new windshell, it's great. So light and really water repellent. Really nice tight fit. Shame it has no hood.
 BnB 25 May 2016
In reply to TobyA:

Their new lightweight rainshell has an excellent specification that compares favourably with the latest Montane Minimus, itself a great bit of kit.
 TobyA 25 May 2016
In reply to Ramon Marin:

I guess no hood makes it better for cyclists and runners too? Personally I like hoods on most things but they are annoying if you use that top for biking as well as climbing/walking.
 Root1 25 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:

Paramo is certainly the best waterproof I have used in over 50 yrs in the hills.
Granted its warm, but in summer I use a Rab vaporise Lite and swap over into the Paramo if the weather worsens.
Its also heavier but because its warmer than Gortex etc you can carry fewer insulating layers so it evens out, and the vaporise acts as a warm layer too.
Pandora 27 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:

I would dare recommending Paramo. It actually is as good as they say it is, I couldn't believe it at first but I tried it and it really works! Don't expect miracles, all garments will have their limitations. Try to get something that's on sale or try looking their 'seconds' page up on ebay. There are a few retailers around that would do deals. Without saying everything else is absolutely rubbish, I am very happy with Paramo after having tried other makes and membranes. They're not the cheapest but I personally think it's good value for money.
 David Coley 28 May 2016
In reply to Postmanpat:

If you are going to rock climb in it it needs to be reasonably light and reasonably tight fitting (rather than a flappy bag). And assuming you won't be climbing only super hard face routes, it needs to be tough enough to deal with corners and even the odd chimney. Something like a RAB Neo Guide strikes the right balance IMHO.

In reply to Postmanpat:

I bought a marmot precip 2014 model last year for walking (£45 at go outdoors) and its fine for that but im myself looking for a hardshell jacket for a trip to austria next year and in the last week on ebay i've seen two rab mountain dru jacket in very good condition go for around £60-70 so the best thing i think you can do is find a few jackets that you like and if you get the chance try them on instore then go on ebay and you'll find somethink for shore even if its the previous generation of the jacket with many of the same feature it will be alot cheaper.

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