Most dnf'd winter route?

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 Tricadam 02 May 2016
Happened to notice that Slingsby's Chimney on the Ben scores pretty highly on the retreatometer. (Haven't had the pleasure myself!) Any advances on that for most incompleted Scottish winter route/ultimate winter sandbag/snowbag?
 John Kelly 03 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

Slingsby's Chimney (II)

Good call, grade 4?, serious
 DaveHK 03 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

Ewen Buttress Direct sees lots of failures.
 DaveHK 03 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:
Speaking personally though, this: Ventriloquist (VII 7)

and it's not just me 40% of the entries are dog or dnf. No grumbles about the grade though.

Edit: Slingsby's has a 15% failure rate in log books.
Post edited at 07:45
 andyinglis 03 May 2016
In reply to DaveKerr: Ha ha you got there first Dave, ventriloquist was the first route that sprung to mind! Nippy VII,7 alright, and much debate about the grade depending on who who speak with!

Snoopy and its (in)famous brown groove requiring ice.....

Route 1 or 2 on Lochnagar?

 French Erick 03 May 2016
In reply to DaveHK:

boohoo...I am but weak and unworthy!
In reply to DaveHK:

Auricle when it was grade lV!
 Captain Solo 03 May 2016
In reply to John Kelly:

I think the problem with Slingsby's is it never banks out enough these days and you're left with a mixed section at the top. My experience when I did it was about III,4
 Sophie G. 03 May 2016
In reply to DaveHK:

> Ewen Buttress Direct sees lots of failures.

Funny you should mention that
 Mr. Lee 03 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

Minus Three Gully (IV 5)

I've ab'ed off after the first pitch because of lack of ice. Looks like other people also.
 Hay 03 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:
Red Gully in lean connies must see a few - all of who too beamered to log it.

Lots of crampon scarring on first two pitches of Recess Route, then lots of tat, then less scarring.

B.

In reply to Hay:

Where's there lots of tat on Recess Route??

Headhunter, Coire an Lochain?

I've also failed on Ventriloquist, around 2000 (too hard!).

Stuart
Swampi 03 May 2016
In reply to Stuart the postie:

Probably from me this winter! Having just climbed the crux on the third pitch the ropes got into an absolute cluster f**k, which my mate belaying me simply couldn't untangle! He managed to extend the belay a few more metres for me to just! reach the next belay. After fifteen minutes he still couldn't untangle them, so I had to rap down off some tat and eventually as a team we managed to sort the mess out. We decided just to rap off some more tat into the gully after that...
1
 Elsier 03 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

I had to retreat from Slingsby's Chimney, was very grumpy about it as expecting an easy approach to NEB, and wasted a great day of weather, as by the time we had retreated it was too late to go round. The top pitch looked at least grade Iv and poorly protected and serious. We had no problems with NE Buttress when we returned a few weeks later, so I would say harder than that.

Other contenders might be:

Gendarme Ridge (IV 4) Doesn't see many ascents but suspect it has a high DNF percentage

West Chimney (V 7) Before the rockfall was widely known about making pitch 2 more like tech 7

and Fingers Ridge (IV 5) probably doesn't have a high logged DNF but I wonder how many people have had to ab off (like me on my first attempt) after waiting too long for parties ahead to complete the route because it's so popular?
 Patrick Roman 03 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

SCnL tends to have fairly high rates, Unicorn and Crest Route spring to mind.
 Hay 04 May 2016
In reply to Stuart the postie:
Mostly in first proper chimney then more on belay before the crux.
 DaveHK 04 May 2016
In reply to Patrick Roman:

> SCnL tends to have fairly high rates,

Accessible crags in general have high fail rates.
 andyinglis 04 May 2016
In reply to Stuart the postie:

Headhunter, YES! I'm in that camp alright. There's a ~2m high/long blank looking slab at 20m (around where candy shop now heads straight up) which I presume requires ice. If that section is well iced then I'd imagine the route in general would be well iced in which it would be romp at barely VI.
In reply to Hay:

Interesting...... I've done Recess now about 3 or 4 times now, repeated it again earlier this season.

There used to be a hex on rope (mine from 10yrs ago) below roof blocking chimney/v groove on P2, it's been removed. Tat beneath Fold, that must be new?

Either way, a fantastic route, of which the Cobbler has several of.......

Stuart
 stratandrew 04 May 2016
In reply to Patrick Roman:

Yep. I would certainly agree with Crest route on scnl. Slingsbys was definitely tough on the top pitch when we used it as an approach to NEB, at least a III.
Although im not convinced the conventional guidebook approach is that easy to NEB - I downclimbed and abbed it from the top of minus three, and I reckon I would take Slingsbys as the approach every time!
 David Staples 04 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

Does this technically count - No match for climb id:349250

57 people did not finish what they set out to do!
 rossn 04 May 2016
In reply to Elsier:

I agree with Fingers Ridge. Didn't fail on it but made the mistake of being polite and letting another pair on the direct start climb through while we were at the first stance on the traditional start. We then waited 90 minutes for them to clear the second stance!! Very slow but immeasurably better than the route is in summer since it is literally falling apart when not ice glued together.

RN
 Michael Gordon 04 May 2016
In reply to stratandrew:

I can definitely imagine quite a few failing on Crest Route. Pretty hard for V, though I guess some of those escaping into Financial Times may still decide to take the tick.
 Patrick Roman 04 May 2016
In reply to DaveHK:

> Accessible crags in general have high fail rates.

Sure, but you don't get crowds flocking to the harder thin face routes on the Ben to "have a go". Well-protected mixed, however, suits that mindset.
 Patrick Roman 04 May 2016
In reply to stratandrew:

> Although im not convinced the conventional guidebook approach is that easy to NEB - I downclimbed and abbed it from the top of minus three, and I reckon I would take Slingsbys as the approach every time!

Agreed, one early January about 13 years ago I tried Slingsby's and made little progress, it was just powder on slabs. I downclimbed and headed round to the normal start of NEB, where the exposed traverse was steeply banked out on bullet-hard ice. It felt pretty serious soloing across it in walking crampons.
 goatee 04 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

I took a bit of a tumble on the top pitch of Slingsby's last March. Was mostly rock and some icy snow. The problem was I tried to take the direct exit which is quite hard. I exited on the left side rather easily and that side would be Grade111 I would say. The bottom two thirds are a steep grade 2.
OP Tricadam 04 May 2016
In reply to stratandrew:

> Yep. I would certainly agree with Crest route on scnl. Slingsbys was definitely tough on the top pitch when we used it as an approach to NEB, at least a III.

Ah yes, Crest Route! Retreated from first belay earlier this season due to the team in front having a total mare. My pal whom I was climbing with that day has been back for it twice and abbed off both times, though not before reaching the second belay on the second attempt. Then thaw put paid to our plan to revisit it together. Next season...

> Although im not convinced the conventional guidebook approach is that easy to NEB - I downclimbed and abbed it from the top of minus three, and I reckon I would take Slingsbys as the approach every time!

Yes: an interminable headtorch downclimb last Feb having abbed down from Second to First Platform after Minus 2. Not to be repeated!
OP Tricadam 04 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

And how about Waterfall Gully on the Ben? Most just climb the first pitch on bad weather days then ab (myself included). I bet few are honest enough to log it as dnf though
 Just Will 04 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:
I hear Gardah Gully (I/II) is a particularly elusive climb... I went on a university mountaineering trip to the CIC in March 2014 and there were 5 attempts on Garadh Gully and 5 failures (I hasten to add that I was not directly involved)... It was slightly surreal especially because by that stage the route was in such soft condition and had banked out as a uniform snow slope with no short ice steps.

On the first day of the trip, two teams set out to claim an afternoon ascent and were turned around after they found (3 hours later) that they had spent too much time pitching the approach slopes.

On the third day of the trip, one team set out in the morning to climb the gully followed by Raeburn's easy route... We found them waiting in the hut when we returned that afternoon. They had such a toxic partnership and argued to such a great extent (over a couple of hours) before even entering the gully that they aborted on the approach slopes again.

Finally, on the fifth day of the trip, two more teams set out to claim an 'elusive' and 'highly prized' ascent. I went off with my partner to climb Psychedelic Wall that day and as we finished off the top pitch we saw a helicopter rescuing someone off the other side of Tower Ridge (in the vicinity of Garadh Gully). We topped out and rushed over to Garadh gully to see if they were ok. We bumped into the two teams as they were descending back to the CIC hut (thankfully unharmed). They had again climbed the approach slopes, this time beneath another team. The leader of the pair above fell off the snow slope within meters of entering the gully and fell about 20m breaking his ankle. The two teams from my uni waited for the helicopter to arrive and then subsequently backed off telling tales of the gnarliness of the route.

Five team failures in five days, and not a single one made it further than a couple of meters into the climb. That week I also lead some guys up Slingsbys and we were forced to retreat when the two guys I was leading didn't think they could second the top pitch. There was also a pair that didn't get up Ledge Route. Not the most successful week for most of the people on the trip... How I love university mountaineering!
Post edited at 21:18
OP Tricadam 04 May 2016
In reply to Will Kernick:

You've 100% convinced me I've missed out by waiting till middle age to get into mountaineering. The only climbing I did in my student days was drunken scaffolding ascents in the post-party small hours. Having said that, the fact that this was Edinburgh meant it was probably good prep for winter climbing: yarding in the dark with freezing hands, an evolving hangover and a distinct paucity of gear.
 Misha 04 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:
I thought Crest Route taken direct all the way on the second pitch was a tough VI in rimed up conditions but with no decent neve on the ledges. If there's neve, it would be easier but even then there are some hard moves in the cracks. Good gear though. Got to love a sandbag though.
 Just Will 04 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

You have clearly missed out on the embarrassing incompetence of university climbing clubs, I feel very sorry for you
 Simon Caldwell 05 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

> And how about Waterfall Gully on the Ben? Most just climb the first pitch on bad weather days then ab

I was thinking of suggesting Italian Route Right Hand for the same reason. But we topped out on that one
OP Tricadam 05 May 2016
In reply to Simon Caldwell:

Or - more controversially, as the guidebook recommends an abseil descent from the top of the difficulties - Scabbard Chimney. (Guilty as charged!)
Removed User 05 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

`Crest Route`is a good punt.
We first tried it on16/1/94 , finally did it at the fourth (and last!) attempt on 17/1/14.
OP Tricadam 05 May 2016
In reply to Removed Usernileferd:

> `Crest Route`is a good punt.

> We first tried it on16/1/94 , finally did it at the fourth (and last!) attempt on 17/1/14.

Good effort! What was your best CR retreat story?
Removed User 06 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

1st- Stuck behind Dave Ritchie and partner who broke his pick and took forever-abbed off.

2nd- Bailed due to fear factor.

3rd- In bad weather, could`nt see crag and climbed what we thought was Crest Route but was`nt.

4th- Success! but on third tricky pitch I had just completed crux moves looked up at my partner who said, `Well done`when both axes ripped and I disappeared back down climb just like Gandalf in the Mines of Moria.
> Happened to notice that Slingsby's Chimney on the Ben scores pretty highly on the retreatometer. (Haven't had the pleasure myself!) Any advances on that for most incompleted Scottish winter route/ultimate winter sandbag/snowbag?

 DaveHK 06 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

Is there any advance on 40% of logbook entries as dog or DNF? If not, I win. Some ab tat and a maillon would seem to be an appropriate prize.
 Lone Rider 08 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:
I would suggest Compression Chimney as the most claimed ascent that people haven't actually finished with them usually finishing by abseiling off before the crux! Obviously I don't have bitterness!

Maybe a new topic thread!
Post edited at 14:59
 Lone Rider 08 May 2016
In reply to DaveHK:

> Ewen Buttress Direct sees lots of failures.

Oops I have failed on that!
 JackM92 08 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

How about Compression Crack on the Ben? Have noticed a lot of teams climbing the first steep ice pitch then not bothering to slog up to the second, and did the same myself in 2015.
 rogerwebb 10 May 2016
In reply to Lone Rider:

Are you about?

Been trying to get hold of you for cragging.
 Gawyllie 18 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

After climbing the long climb in summer and seeing the debris of apparent epics strewn up the orion face, I would guess that Orion Direct has seen its share of failures.

The Crux on Lochnagar's Shadow A is pretty ludicrous compared to the rest of the route. I've failed on it myself but have since been back. reckon a fair few have failed after giving it a crack as its convenient to get back into the coire
 Gawyllie 18 May 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

After climbing the long climb in summer and seeing the debris of apparent epics strewn up the orion face, I would guess that Orion Direct has seen its share of failures.

The Crux on Lochnagar's Shadow A is pretty ludicrous compared to the rest of the route. I've failed on it myself but have since been back. reckon a fair few have failed after giving it a crack as its convenient to get back into the coire
 Steve Perry 18 May 2016
In reply to DaveHK:

> Speaking personally though, this: Ventriloquist (VII 7)

Andy Nisbet was describing to me how pumped he was when getting to the top of this route (I'm sure it was the FWA but may be wrong) and I can't decide whether it makes me want to try it more or avoid it completely. At the end of the day you've got to find out for yourself so probably the former. Sounds hard for the grade but the right grade.

 French Erick 19 May 2016
In reply to Steve Perry:

Let's go together...Dave said he wasn't for trying a 3rd time! We can even take turns and both lead that crack if you want!
 Steve Perry 19 May 2016
In reply to French Erick:

Sounds like a plan Erick.
 Jasonic 02 Jun 2016
In reply to Elsier:

Have retreated from Gendarme Ridge.. felt very sketchy!
 Mr. Lee 03 Jun 2016
In reply to Tricadam:

Compression Crack (V 5) must be on the short list as a lot of people seem to skip the final crux pitch.

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