UKH

Hallo i brought a pivot at x-mas when i was in wales.
I am having a problem with belaying my second.
When i place the pivot in the anker , it is to the right or to the left.
I tested it last week with a fall of the second climber.
And it twisted in the the carabinier so much that i feel unsafe belaying my second.

Can someone please tell me if this has been tested?

(When in a anker made up of slings (trad) this is no problem)

In reply to resqueman:

Do you mean that the orientation of the pivot when in guide mode means that it twists under loading? Not sure how you would get a surprise twist in the system as you should know the orientation when you set it up, but I avoided the Pivot due to the actual pivot part being 90° opposite to the ATC Guide. When I set up the ATC, because it has a hole, not a horizontal pivot, it sits flush with the rock facing right or left as you say and doesn't twist. But the Pivot would need to be facing to/facing away from the rock which wouldn't work well on slabby sport routes.

Obviously slings counteract this, but it made me stick with my ATC instead.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:

Yes, (Do you mean that the orientation of the pivot when in guide mode means that it twists under loading?)
Where i climb in Belgium, there are alot of ankers made up of Petzl Coeur Bolts or bolts with chains and rings.
When i belay straight off the chains, ( as a beginner would do).
There is a twist in the system where there is a sideways force on the pivot.

I just would like to know if this is safe?
I have used the BD ATC Guide and the petzl reverso in the past. Both do a great job.

In reply to resqueman:

If you don't like the orientation of your belay plate when clipped direct to short chains then don't clip it to short chains, either belay in a way you're more comfortable with or introduce a short sling so it all sits how you'd like it to.
jk

In reply to resqueman:

I hate hearing the word 'twist' in your belay system. You should be setting up your anchors/belays with the directions of loading being anticipated. The only way I can imagine there being a twist is if you are twisting the belay device when setting up your belay and it is reverse twisting when loaded.

I have made a crudely drawn diagram of how an ATC and Pivot compare when connecting directly to a ring anchor: http://oi66.tinypic.com/ztw0hj.jpg - As jkarran suggests you can use a sling to correct this but I feel this is just another link in the chain and a fix for something that shouldn't necessarily need fixing.

As stated I avoided the Pivot as I anticipated it facing the rock at every sub/vertical sport anchor.

In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
Or use a second screwgate? (or clip into a link of the chain if you can).

In reply to resqueman:


Which version of the reverso have you used? all but the first version have the hanger hole for guide mode belaying in the same orientation as the pivot so if it works fine with the reverso then I can't see any reason why it wouldn't with the pivot.

In reply to gethin_allen:

Sorry for not getting back sooner, I have been out climbing alot. (nice weather in spain and south france).
To explain in more detail?
The problem is NOT when using a sling in the anchor, it is when belaying over the ring of a anchor (as a beginner would do).
purplemonkeyelephant: love the drawing, it shows what i am trying to say.

When loaded, the pivot will go to the right or left in a fall, this will move the pivot about 45 to 60 degrees.
The sideways force just under axle is ( i think) to much for that fin bit of material?

I will try and make a photo, next time i am in the same situation.