UKH

Is the Arc'teryx brand any better than Mountain Equipment, Patagonia and/ or Rab?

I'm looking for a new fleece jacket and wondered whether the Arc'teryx Fortrez was really worth considerably more than the Mountain Equipment Croz Jacket or Patagonia R2 Jacket?

My next few trips are Mont Blanc, Mera Peak and hopefully Aconcagua.

In reply to 83earl:

Nope. Each brand excels over others with some items but in general I find all the top brands equal.

I don't buy Arcteryx as it doesn't fit me that well. Go off fit.

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In reply to 83earl:

Depends...


If the fit is just perfect (or better than any other brand you listed) and the product has all the bells and whistles you want.

'Ryx is certainly a good brand, and the stuff they make is excellent... But even I would claim, that not always worth the premium.


In fact, on something like a fleece jacket... look for fit and material, fit being the key as non windblocking/semisoftshell fleece is something even non-brands get right... heck if the fit is right something from Decathlon might be a smart choice...

In reply to 83earl:

Arc'teryx is excellent stuff but does command a premium. Personally I would say that you will inevitably trash what ever you buy. If you are flush with cash and like it that much more, then go for it. If cash is at a premium, Patagucci is just as good. Rab, I've had problems with zips from them in the past. The only thing which is annoying with Patagucci is they tend to put their zips on the american way round, i.e. the wrong way round so all your stuff fall out of your pockets because they zip up rather than down. That said, its not a rule and their stuff lasts very very well... I'm sat here in a snap-t fleece I've had since 2002...

In reply to 83earl:

Hi,

I brought a Fortrez when I was out in Canada so it cost me closer to £90 I think. I like the hoody, it is a roomy fit and it is really water repellant. However, the balaclava material around the hood that creates the face mask isn't the comfortable on or off. It is also too long for both my squamish and my beta lt so it pokes out the bottom of my shell and is too bulky to tuck in and doesn't have a waist drawcord. It is also has next to zero wind resistance. I am sure it is just a hard face version of power stretch and so whilst it beads water it doesn't stop any wind.

Pro's
Water repellent.

Con's
Not Wind resistant.
Face mask isn't comfortable or that practical (a buff does the same job).
Too long for the rest of the hip length shells Arc make.

I have now given up with using it out and use it as an everyday hoody and at work. I snagged it on a nail a few months back and the hole has not got any bigger so in terms of durability that's quite good too.

I'd recommend looking at a Patagonia R2 I had a look at that when I got the Fortrez but decided to go for the wind resistant one (Doh!). If you are set on wind resistance go for a rab shadow or the ME one you put up.

Good luck choosing.

In reply to 83earl:

I have a couple of light insulated jackets from Arc'teryx (Atom LT, Nuclei) and find the cut, material etc are excellent - definitely a class above the Montane Flux I had before. Having said that, I got both of them in sales and wouldn't have paid full price for them.

Depends a lot on what fits you. I can just barely get on with the whole Rab narrow shoulders, long arms gibbon style. Patagonia also generally have good materials and build quality, but so many of their things have a boxy, shapeless cut that can't possibly be thermally efficient.

In reply to Casa Alfredino:


Indeed. My 1999 R2 pullover is the best fleece I've ever had and still going strong. The zip on the chest pocket is even the right way up.

In reply to Casa Alfredino:


Pah. Johnny come lately. My snap-t was bought in 1991 and still gets worn regularly. Being black it shows no marks and I've used it as my bike and car repairing top for years, but it still looks reasonably smart!

In reply to 83earl:

Worth looking on SportPursuit for Arcteryx but only if you are a size medium. Lots of samples going half price - making them reasonable value.

b
(DOI has a 15 year old arcteryx hybrid soft shell, a 20 year old arecteryx harness (retired), and a year old giant expedition pack!)

In reply to HeMa:


http://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/t.php?t=606789

been renamed this year:
http://www.decathlon.co.uk/forclaz-400-mens-hooded-fleece-orange-id_8317449...

or

http://www.decathlon.co.uk/forclaz-600-mens-fleece-black-id_8284966.html

In reply to adman29:


This ^

When I bought my down jacket, I really wanted the Mountain Hardwear one at the time, but out of that, the North Face and Mountain Equipment, the ME one really was a perfect fit on me, so I bought that one - the other 2 weren't even close.

Personally, I think Arcteryx is overpriced with not much net gain. I love my Khamsin rucksack, but I got it in sale in Vancouver - I'd never have paid full UK price for it.

In reply to 83earl:

Oh, and I'd agree with the others that fit is paramount. And fabric. Which brings me to comment that the Fortrez/Croz are different beasts to the R2. The former are hard-faced PowerStretch (or alike), which has some wind resistance, whereas the R2 is ThermalPro, which has almost none, and really needs a shell of some sort on top in anything other than the lightest breeze, otherwise that lovely 'hi-loft' fleece has the warmth stripped out of it.

Thanks for all the comments. I spoke to someone at Rab and they have actually recommended a breathable softshell (the Strata Hoody) rather than a fleece jacket. Is there merit in this or is it best sticking with a fleece?

In reply to 83earl:

I've switched from fleece to "softshell" eg Marmot Ether Driclime/Rab VR lite/Rab Aeon/ME Arrow, depending on venue and temperature, for on the hill as they're more windproof and are lighter and less bulky, but there's nowt like a fleece for sitting at home or in the hut/pub. I guess you need both.

In reply to TobyA:

Well if we're discussing longevity I'll have to cite my Helly Hansen Polar jackets and trousers. I bought 'em in 1970 for £4-19-6d each and wore them for everything from Kent to Kashmir for 20 years (when I got my first fleece) and then demoted them to caving apparel for another 20 years. Were it not for the fact I don't now go caving very often I'd still be wearing 'em weekly. You just can't wear that stuff out.
Incidentally I never liked my Patagonia SnapT and gave it away to a devotee of them years ago.

In reply to 83earl:

I personally don't find much use for fleece these days. Too hot to wear to wear under a windshirt going uphill, but not warm enough when you're stopped. People do seem to say think that Polartec Alpha as used in the Strata somehow magically solves these problems, but I don't have any personal experience of it.

In reply to AlanLittle:

Well, there's fleece and there's fleece...

Anything from the likes of very lightweight PowerDry (e.g. MEC T3 hoody at 185g), up to the thickest ThermalPro.

Pick a weight to suit weather, activity and physiology...

How do people find the Sherpa Adventure Gear brand products, are they a comparable product or are they inferior?

In reply to 83earl:


In a word no. Despite being a die hard fan.

Their premium used to be worth it when almost everything bar their t-shirts and casual line was Canadian made.

The quality dropped a little in 08 when they started outsourcing to China and other eastern nations but has since reached and often exceeded the old standard.

Arc'teryx's premium lies in their ability to not only produce stupidly hight quality gear, but also because they conduct some serious product R&D. Don't forget they invented most of the features seen on most technical clothing nowadays. Not to mention have clothing in their line that has not only survived in close to original concept for 20 odd years, they also produce a lot of gear that can be argued as being outright copied by many high end manufacturers.

The one thing no one has ever really managed to meet is the build quality. Marmot tried and Westcomb is just about keeping up.

In reply to GarethSL:
To the OP: It's also reasonable to point out that there isn't much rubbish gear these days. Some for sure, but not much.

Cue: "you kids don't know how lucky you have it... in my day... hairy breeches..." etc

However, there is much truth in this. Much of the time, the application of an extra 100 quid gives marginal gains in function and significant gains in fashion and/or desirability.

We often enjoy comparing, trying out, and searching for the holy grail of waterproofs / belay jackets / boots but ultimately it matters little for the vast majority of users. Because the environment has a bearing on survival in our game it's less obvious than, say, the search for the perfect hifi system in which folk spend 10 grand on some cables - but few of us are e.g. pushing it out on solo ascents in the Karakoram or Patagonia where clothing failure could be catastrophic.

So bear in mind it's fun but not massively important and certainly not something to obsess over. If you like it, the fit is right, and you can afford it great - whether it is 50 quid or 500 quid. Companies do vary in their business and ethical models though - which is where (say) Patagonia or Sherpa gain some high ground, and personally I am fine with paying a little more to them as a result; similarly Arcteryx really do lead on a number of R&D areas and I don't mind supporting them as a result. Having said which I too got my giant pack in Montreal on sale for considerably less than it would be elsewhere!

Cheers

b

In reply to 83earl:
Over the years I've used them all, though my brand of choice since the 70's has mainly been ME.

I can remember taking various down jackets - Annapurna, Cerro Torre, Snowline - back to the old factory in Glossop when Pete Huchinson still ran it, to have them altered/repaired by his wonderful team of ladies. In fact my Redline jacket is still going strong and regularly used, having been superbly made in March 1981 by Betty, who's name, signature and date is still visable (although somewhat faded) in hand written ink on the label.

However this winter in the alps, I've also been using some Arc'teryx gear, and it is excellent kit.

But as someone else mentioned, modern gear is so well designed and made these days, that unless you're really pushing it out in extremis, any of it is going to be more than adequate and probably over engineered for most people.

Performance wise, there's not much difference, and it probably comes down to what fits and feels most comfortable.

I'm a bit of a gear horder, and I've still got stuff dating back to the early 70's - including the kit for my first alpine season in 74', which most folk today probably wouldn't risk on a walk up Snowdon on August Bank Holiday, yet at the time, was cutting edge stuff

In reply to 83earl:
It's a personal choice. Two of my mates happily climbed over 6000 m in South America kitted out pretty much in fleeces and kit from Millets.