UKH

As it says on the tin but with a focus on UKC experiences on their first graded winter routes. I'm interested as various assertions are being made on another thread about backgrounds and how self reliance from the beginning is most common and a good thing; although I strongly suspect most people started with an experienced pal or an instructor of some sort. I came from a student club, used a guide to get started and worked with guides who were hired by such clients and with the BMC who encouraged experienced introductions, so I realise this might distort my view. A good sample would help the site and future beginner's queries.

So, I came from a winter walking and rock climbing background in a student club and independently hired a locally based Scottish guide for a focused climbing skills session and my first winter graded route (Broad Gully), then started to climb independently in the area. I also read up extensively on the skills required beforehand. I thought that the guide would help speed up learning and be good value. He exceeded my expectations; really focused my ideas for routes, movement and protection that lasted through my 'apprenticeship', gave a great insight into the peculiarities of Scottish conditions and its impact on route choice, and some fabulous money saving tips on kit purchase for winter climbing. All my first routes were enjoyable and felt pretty easy and I progressed reasonable fast to lead some III's in my first year.

In reply to Offwidth:

My story is similar to yours. I was a jobbing crag climber then a mate suggested winter climbing. We hired a guide through Alan Kimber and enjoyed a couple of days doing winter skills and an ascent of Number 2 Gulley and Golden Oldy.

I then read more and climbed my way through a batch of grade IIs in the Highlands and Cairngorms. I've not been for a couple of years but am keen to return next winter, I'll probably stick to II/III as I'm comfortable at that grade.

In reply to Offwidth:
I soloed a grade I winter route, then did another with a friend who wasn't very experienced. After that I went out with a friend who had a season or twos experience but wasn't that experienced- however he was a summer outdoor instructor (including climbing) and later trained and got his MIA.

I did however read a lot of books on the subject and I also climbed with as many experienced people as I could, some of which had MIC.

In reply to Tony the Blade:

My first route was the idwal stream. Borrowed axes and crampons from a friend (who hadn't used them in about 15 years). We didn't have any protection or ropes so soloed the lot, a very memorable experience.

Seems a bit mad now looking back, but it certainly makes me appreciate sharp tools and decent crampons.

Since then consolidated experience, read up lots and got out with better climbers.

In reply to Offwidth:
started via winter walking with more experienced members of the club I was in at the time, then climbing with someone with a little more experience than me on IIs & IIIs & worked our way up the grades, That was in the late 70s, at the time I didn't know anyone who had climbed with a guide although we knew courses existed & wondered who went on them

In reply to Offwidth:

Hi

Well not so much a how I got into it, more of a how I am getting into it. I’ve been climbing in summer for 5 years or so, I always said I would never go winter climbing, figured it was expensive and risky.

Slowly I realized that I liked getting out in the hills in winter and I got it in my head that for me winter climbing and mountaineering seemed like a natural progression from summer venues… longer, bigger and possibly more rewarding.

Jump forwards to present day and I’m preparing for my first winter trip to Glencoe. Very excited! a lot like when I first started trad (there’s as much if not more to learn all over again) Fingers crossed for good conditions.

In reply to Offwidth:
I borrowed my mums washing line and put some nails in my trainers. I then glued some bits of sharp metal onto my mittens and went looking for the white stuff. Realising my inexperience might be a problem I didn't venture too far at first but did manage to build a snowman. I progressed slowly doing some sledging on my next visit to the hills before committing myself to a solo one day hike of Everest. The rest, as they say is history!!!

In reply to Offwidth:

The short version - went walking in Winter and found the ground getting progressively steeper.

The long version - did a few skills courses with Jagged Globe who did their job so well I rapidly lost interest in being guided up things and wanted to get out on my own. I think George (III 4) was my first lead? Umbrella Fall (V 5) my first Grade V ( and a bit of a fierce one at that).

Through a series of events I got involved with the UK dry tooling scene and so ended up hanging around with some ridiculously good climbers. It pretty much reset my opinion of what I considered to be hard.

In reply to Offwidth:

Back in 2010:
Bought axes/ crampons and those horrid £10 camp ice screws with Christmas money.
Watched a few videos on yootoob...
Eyeballed facebook conditions page for Brecon. Literally minute by minute.
Found partner (pep) through UKC - no previous winter experience.
Went out and soloed the two grade III routes and one grotty little gully at Craig-y-Fro/ 'RAC corner'.

My only axe swinging experience before that was a couple of days out on Mer de Glace and a romp up the Cosmiques in the snow.

Monumentally hooked on ice since, never really got into mixed. Did a similar thing when I moved to Norway, just found people and went out chopping routes.

In reply to Offwidth:

I did a lot of hillwalking with my Dad when I was younger and I had been rock climbing since I was 7. I don't think I really thought "I really want to start winter climbing", but I do remember looking at gully lines and thinking they looked really good fun and wanting to climb them.

My first graded winter route was Central Gully on Ben Lui and its still probably up there with one of the best winter routes I have done. I went with my brother, we had no winter climbing experience or really anything to draw on for that matter apart from our winter walking. We both had a walking axe, a pair of G12 crampons and just the usual winter walking kit. I do remember being surprised at how steep it was and I absolutely loved it from bottom to top.

After that day I went out and did more I's and II's before bumping into a 2 guys while heading down from Stob Coire nan Lochan who had been out climbing some mental grade IV (that was my thought process at the time). I gave them my number and they took me out for my first few routes in winter. I learned a lot from going out with them, although I'm not talking about rope work, how to place gear or any of that. What I learned was, ok, I actually can climb this grade IV or V. Basically they took me to a route and told me to climb, so I did (nervously).

So basically I learned what is possible and gained confidence through those guys.

Looking back on it, I remember walking up Observatory Gully with my brother on our way to Gardyloo Gully (the chosen route of the day). We passed by a massive icefall and I remember looking up and seeing 2 guys up there climbing, one of them standing on a tiny ice ledge belaying. All I could think was, "That is absolutely bonkers!! They must be mad, I'll never do that!". Turns out that icefall was Hadrian Wall, a route I did last year pretty much 2 years after that day with my brother in Observatory Gully.

Its crazy how your perspective can change.

In reply to Offwidth:

My Dad took me and my brother up to Scotland for some 'fun in the snow'. He bought us a pair of crappy in-step crampons and an ice axe. We set off up Ben Lomond in the snow. Dad couldn't hack it, so turned back. His advice was "if it gets too steep, just cut some steps with the ice axe". Me and my brother headed off, cutting steps. We summited and then decided to glicade down the back side of the mountain. My brother snapped his ankle and I smashed my head against a rock. An 8-hour epic ensued, trying to get my brother off the mountain and in the car to Glasgow A&E.

A few years later we headed out to Cairngorms with (some of) the right kit and trudged up the Goat Track, thinking we were 'proper' mountaineers. I remember seeing a group of people practicing jumarring for their upcoming trip to Everest. Mind blown. Never looked back.

In reply to Offwidth:

Unfortunately, I didn't have a great experience with a winter skills course. We had a grumpy, unhelpful tough guy of an instructor (oddly, as he was from a major centre). Memorable advice such as 'Don't take anything to drink'. He led us into a Cairngorm coire (I still couldn't tell you which one but I'd guess Sneachda) and had us walking roped up and down a 40 degree snow slope making bucket seats. Then we made igloos.

Igloos...

I was relatively experienced on rock, climbing about HVS, but there was little or nothing during our tuition that related to the more important aspects of 'getting into' winter climbing: choosing routes, assessing dangers, how to protect mixed routes and ice, getting to/from your crag, and what to wear. It's a shame as I've seen great instructors at work in the hills since.

I didn't feel confident or inspired enough to go back winter climbing until a few years after that, when I went on a West Highlands winter walking/mountaineering holiday with my dad (who was an instructor in Ireland). We went out soloing some Grade Is, then put on ropes for Ledge Route - which I found terrifying! It was great and I went back later that year with friends. As others have said, it's amazing how your quickly aspirations and perspectives can change, as that really wasn't that long ago.

D.

In reply to Offwidth:

Did a few years of winter hillwalking so probably covered easy grade I ground without realising, eg CMD Arete, south ridge of Mullach Fraoch-choire. Picked up the SMC winter climbs book last year and did some Grade II gullies on the Cobbler and Glen Coe, Ledge Route etc. Was thinking of hiring a guide or doing a course this year for an intro to grade III/IV but the weather has been crap. I don't think an experienced winter hillwalker would need a guide to do easy grade I/II routes.

In reply to Offwidth:

Walking with my parents from about the age of 4-5. Starting taking bus to the hills on our own when we were 10 years old (This is mid 70's when it was the norm to have this freedom as a kid). Heard about the Bonnington ascent of the SW Face of Everest. Decided with a mate to borrow my mothers geology hammers for a bit of winter climbing one weekend when aged 12. Survived that fine, and carried on in that style for a while.

As a teenager scared myself a little on the Old Man of Coniston. Immediately went into shop in Coniston and bought axe and crampons with paper round money. I think the crampons were 10 point flexi from memory. Continued to mess around in Grade 1 / 2 gullies and easy buttresses and ridges.

Discovered Scotland in the mid to late 80's, got some 12 point crampons, got a second axe. Kept on at it. A friend at University was a climber and so discovered ropes and summer climbing. Took those principles and applied them to my winter climbing. In the 90's I joined a mountaineering club and kept going from there.

In reply to Offwidth:

OK, let me extend the age range. I started as a sixthformer in the 1960s when there were only a handful of British guides, no formal qualifications for instructors, no internet, no awareness of avalanches, belaying was round your waist, and ice axes were wooden. Gradually advanced from family hillwalking in winter to easy snow gullies and snowed-up ridges. Went on SYHA climbing course in Glencoe (Hamish McInnes et al, minimal instruction) and AAC alpine course in Zillertal (Peter Habeler et al, some instruction). Once went to university climbed with fellow students (one of them now a guide), gradually moving up the grades in Scotland and Alps.

In reply to Offwidth:

I started with solid walking boots, one wooden shafted axe, a hawser laid rope, two Salewa screws and a deadman. Plus someone who knew, sort of, which way was up. Survived that (just), mostly thanks to a week of perfect neve and the odd big snow-drift right where it mattered. Got as far as II/III. Army surplus green anorak and corduroy trousers with women's tights underneath - the latter were the result of an administrative error and were warm but had one major shortcoming - it's well-nigh impossible to have a pee when wearing an undergarment without a fly and a waist that comes up to your ribs.

Then graduated to 'student' and acquired proper boots, two axes and some warthogs, a Chouinard screw and some Snargs. Survived that too.

Did some more with axes that worked, plastic boots and footfangs. It became a whole lot easier

Stopped for ten years when the kids were young (and I was skint as a result and had 'responsibilities')

Started again, to discover that ice screws now worked. It became easier again
Acquired axes with handles. Belay jackets became the vogue. It became easier and warmer.
There's even a nice path up Ben Nevis now, instead of a bog


In terms of money saving tips - Decathlon. I bought a new softshell jacket a month ago. Not cheap, big brand, and not that good either as it turned out. In Decathlon yesterday, I paid £30 for a softshell jacket that is superior in every way except that the colour isn't as nice.

In reply to Offwidth:

went up to Ben nevis , both just 18 , got on a cool looking gully route with just wooly hats and gloves ( and some clothes !) anyway halfway way up there was a traffic jam of 3 teams just as the route steepened towards the top , we quickly noticed that everyone else had ropes axes helmets e,c,t - unfazed we pigeon holed are way up until it was that steep we had no choice but do or die ! years later after getting all the gear and the book the route description was "a good route to try once familiar with crampons and ice axes grade III ! the arrogance of youth got us up it (just!)

In reply to Offwidth:

Plenty of winter walking and some rock-climbing experience. Camped with a mate below the CIC hut, climbed Tower Ridge.

In reply to Offwidth:

Walking and scrambling aged around 16, started rock climbing with mates at 17, the walking and scrambling became more adventurous and moved in to winter. By 18 we had sufficient kit and had move on to grade I and II winter terrain. This slowly developed over a few years, by which time those of us that had retained our interest were climbing IV-V.

In reply to Offwidth:
A bit different to the modern approach but mine was.. Hitched to Afghanistan in the 70s then on through Karakorum and Indian Himalaya. Liked the hills so thought I should maybe do something about it. Eventually I came back to the UK and did a Night School class in Mountaineering in Swiss Cottage (Yes Really, and hello to Simon4 :- ) Went back to Nepal and somehow climbed a 6000m peak Came back and went on a 'proper course' with Cubby to find out what I should have been doing (I must have been obnoxious because my punishment was that after one grade 1 my second winter route was Smiths on the Ben)

In reply to Offwidth:

Few years of hillwalking (winter and summer scrambling). Soloed Ben Lui central gully with partner as first winter route. Only done a few 1 and II's since then- prefer ski touring in winter. I've only hired a guide once in the alps for a 300m ice fall - which to be honest took a lot of the satisfaction out if it.
Did a winter skills course in the army but it didn't involve winter climbing

In reply to Offwidth:
Hillwalking > scrambling > winter hillwalking > winter climbing > summer alpine

No guides or courses, easy grades, done solo, 4 years from first Welsh 3000er walk to first Swiss 4000er PD, not looking to progress grades.

In reply to Offwidth:

Hamish MacInnes winter mountaineering course, March 1969.

In reply to Offwidth: first ever "proper" trip out in winter......... having feck all clue, no rope or rack and never having been in crampons or used an axe..............

I went winter hill walking and found myself soloing a gully in Coire Fee with a single walking axe and thankfully B2 boots and crampons. I recall the moment when I thought "Christ this isn't a bloody normal thing to be doing", I looked down past the now obviously equally inexperienced "mate" who I thought knew his stuff (utter bullshit merchant, as it turned out) and realising that I must climb on...... because as sure as f*ck, I could not go back down the way I had come!

He helped my morale no end with continued utterances of "I don't like this at all...." whilst bringing up the rear, since his manhood had shrunken considerably once the nature of our predicament dawned and I had to take the lead, as it were, picking a likely line here, selecting a probable traverse there.............

I recall the moment I topped out, thanked the gods for the gift of life, drank the entire contents of my hip flask and lit the tastiest cigarette I have ever had, with shaking hands whilst laughing manically with the sheer joy of survival.

I bloody love winter climbing! :-D

In reply to Offwidth:
I didn't really know any climbers, but hill walked, went into Nevisport one day in Glasgow, looking for an ice axe, this was 1984, the gnarly looking dude behind the counter, pulled out a second hand well used Choiunard curver from behind the till, after a few forays cutting steps on the grade ll gully's of the Cobbler solo, i was ready for the Ben.. fast forward to feb 1985, after the purchase of a hammer, it was time for some front pointing, i spent a week in a tent below the cic hut soloing a number of easy routes, Bob run, the moat, culminating in my first grade 3, the Good friday climb, one thing i new, the winter wonderland i had experienced was nothing like down in the valley below, i was hooked and went on to meet other climbers and progress from there.

In reply to Offwidth:

First winter route I guess was Easy Gully on Creag Meagaidh, done with 6 point in-step crampons and felt I recall quite 'hairy'. Progressed (with better crampons) onto things like Liathath traverse and Raeburn's Easy Route on the Ben.

I'd say in student clubs individuals hiring guides to go climbing is quite uncommon - usually you just pick a route and go out with a mate. Subsidised winter skills courses are more common and I think a really good way of starting novices off.

In reply to Offwidth:

Went from winter walking to playing in gullies and ridges up in the lakes. Decided I wanted to winter climb and some climbing mates told me I needed to summer trad climb first to understand the gear. Learnt from them and winged a lot of it on Youtube for 2 years.
I sit here now in one of the rooms in Glenmore Lodge after 3 days mixed climbing in the Cairngorms and the instruction has been fantastic, especially the stuff on avalanche and safety. 2 days left to go.
The big question now is, how do I find partners to train with to get fully lead proficient? Non of my friends have any interest in winter. Getting contacts willing to share the skills without having to pay a pile of money isn't easy.

In reply to Offwidth:

Whilst it was never my main thing, what first got me interested was very similar to what got me into rock climbing.

Last Saturday in February, 1986; brass-monkey cold, a night-time forecast of -15. I was camping for ther weekend by the Wasdale Head Inn for a mate's mates piss-up on the Saturday night. Saturday morning I set off for the Mosedale round, starting by cutting up to Red Pike. It was icy rather than snowy, the sort of cold where the snow had all but gone leaving a veneer of verglas almost everywhere, the sort of cold where bootprints of compacted snow remained when the snow that originally surrounded them had gone to ice.

I didn't have an ice axe or crampons so the way up to Red Pike I picked up a branch for balance. Suffice to say that without that, I'd probably not be here. Getting down the small, but very icy, slope to Steeple was errant verging on foolishness. But I did it, and carried on over Pillar and Kirk Fell before hauling my cold but satisfied body down to a frigid tent and then the pub.

After that, I vowed to buy an axe and crampons when I had the cash and then one thing followed on from another. But that was how it started on a very cold day at the top of Wasdale.

T.

In reply to Offwidth:
A few hours of instruction on a glacier in Greenland while on a "yoof" expedition, although mainly "alpine skills" rather than "winter", then went to Glasgow to uni, joined the GUM club and just went out climbing with borrowed/second hand bits of gear until I bought my own. I had done very little lead rock climbing at that time either, so through the first winter at uni I did more winter stuff than rock. First route was a grade II buttress on Meall Buidhe. I remember it being quite good fun!

I had basically memorised the Handbook of Climbing by Fyffe and Peters though by this time - I had it on perma-loan from my local library during my sixth form years in the midlands. I really wanted to go winter climbing!

In reply to Offwidth:

An interesting aspect of this thread is the number of winter climbers who went out with parents etc into the winter hills as youngsters. I believe couple of the top winter activists, Greg Boswell and Blair Fyffe were climbing pretty difficult routes with their dads in their early teens.
I think that in Scotland, a progression to winter climbing from hill walking was always seen as the norm- there was always a feeling that winter ridge walking was "winter mountaineering". The idea of hiring a guide seemed both financially and culturally improbable, although "going on a course" at Glenmore Lodge was on the radar.

In reply to Offwidth:
Lots of family hillwalking and increasingly bits of summer rock climbs before age 16. My brother came home at Christmas when I was 16, we went for a walk up Helvellyn, hoping to do the edges but he suggested the head wall between inch looked boring. However the snow bowl turned out to be great, thankfully with prints kicked into what I now know as neve and the80cm yardstick/ walking axe being very nicely.

An adventure which encouraged me to by crampons and then two years later decent ones and technical axes.

In reply to Offwidth:

Old school approach for me....rock climbing from 14/15, lots of hill walking and backpacking and aged 18 went to Glencoe in winter. Developed the skills by going out with anyone who'd let me tag on and bit by bit got stronger. Joined the forces at 19 and got in to cold weather stuff and was lucky to get a few jobs involving winter climbing/ skiing. I've always thought of 'real' climbing being in winter conditions, real mountaineering!

In reply to Offwidth:

I too got into winter climbing as a progression from winter hillwalking.
Myself and my friend Whisky Dave decided to go to Ogwen, where we ascended Y Garn with our axes, 1 each, in a fresh covering of snow. We were a bit lost , so followed these climber types with rucksacks full of rope and hardwear. They stopped at the bottom of a steep bit, and began to 'rack up'. We had a wee drammy, hairy doggy, and watched them ascent something called ? Banana. We had no bananas but plenty of kahunas after our dram. We soon caught them up, and had a chat. 'Dont you know that this is a climbing route, and that you need a rope and proper gear' chirped the cockney, 'and that it's rude to overtake'.
Being new we didn't and told him to have a cough.
Gaining confidence in our single axe technique, we caught another climber being top roped near the summit. ' You're pissing me off' he uttered. Whisky said that 'he could have the fat end of his axe in his puss anytime he liked'. After that, the game was ours.

In reply to Offwidth:

I decided to take my rock climbing to ice so that I could learn the basics of ice to go and climb unclimbed peaks. Taught myself by learning all I could before going and teaching a friend who was a single pitch climber, a safe one. We did easy routes, had epics on bad weather days.

I am a firm believer in learning on the job. And have avoided and instructors or guides even in the alps. When you get a nagging feeling that things are too dangerous to be reasoned then turn back just make sure your partner is someone you can trust

In reply to Offwidth:

After a few years walking and climbing at school and early university, I found myself at the bottom of Eastern Gully on the Ladders, with the icefall start in spanking condition. Had a fine pair of stiff leathers (Dolomite Super Eggers) but had never stepped crampons to them in anger until the Salewa bent tins went on that Easter morning. Coupled with 2 wooden shafted axes, one a camp zero copy, one with a bootlace for a leash I led my first pitch of (grade 3) ice. A galvanised Salewa screw may have gone in at under half height. Easter 1981, the day I learned about self reliance and how scary climbing could be.

In reply to Tim Sparrow:

I remember that day! Charles and I did a 'traditional' version with waist ties, firm stances and him with his pipe. There was the odd token useless Salewa screw and a runner here and there, but not a lot to speak of. Hand shakes at the top and off for the club dinner I think.

In reply to Offwidth:

Via the uni club. Started winter walking which led to easy gullies and ridges. Which led to the Alps. Never been any good but always enjoyed getting out winter climbing. I like to think my natural cowardice has helped keep me safe over the years.

In reply to Offwidth:
Making a rough count of the above 30+ replies, rather more than half taught themselves, and the rest took instruction formally or informally. There's a grey area with 'slightly more experienced friends'. A worthwhile survey from which we can conclude that both methods are well trodden.

(I bumbled into winter climbing from winter walking, with similarly inexperienced friends. But my first winter walking and axe/crampon use, many years earlier, was with an experienced school teacher to whom I am everlastingly grateful.)

In reply to Offwidth:
A mate took me up a couple of III and a II including one off the central lines in Sneachda, Alladin direct and Staghorn gully C.Meagaidh, up and down a couple of grade I then a days abseiling instructions on the Cuillin. After which its been mainly solo stuff or intermittent occasional climbing partners. What I have to do is try to climb with people when I can or really think carefully as to what solo stuff I'm prepared to have a go at.

In reply to Offwidth:

Did a bit of winter walking at school (including a memorable ascent and descent of Lords Rake with only a single ice axe, and the same on a gully on pendle using my just hands on the way up, and taking a long slide coming down)

A few years back I decided to do a weekend in Scotland with an instructor, led grade 3, seconded grade 4 and decided there were better things to do in winter than spend 16 hours on the roads just to queue up in the Northern Corries. If I lived closer I'm sure I'd get into it, but more to do ridges than gullies

In reply to Offwidth:

Borrowed an axe and set off.
Bought Bill March's Modern Rope Techniques at some point.
Looked for the perfect slopes to try ice axe braking on the way down and 'piolet a plat' on the way up. Had fun.

In reply to The New NickB:

One thing I haven't mentioned, but was actually really important, was the local library. The climbing and mountaineering section probably extended to a 100 books, I think I borrowed all of them, some of them several times, between the ages of 16 and 18. That included quite a few instructional books.

In reply to Offwidth:

Hi Offwidth,

Aged 14, borrowed a single axe and crampons from my Biology Teacher, one John Hammond, (Pete Livesey's partner on a number of occasions), and went and climbed Little Gully LH on Pavey Arc, III, as our first route, with a mate of mine Ian Harrison....happy days, and can remember it like yesterday.....

ANdy

In reply to all

Keep them coming.... no women??

In reply to Offwidth:
I did years of summer hillwalking. That got boring, so I went out in bad weather - rain, wind, and at night, and easy scrambling up to grade 1. Winter scrambling was my next goal, I climbed an easy gully (grade 0) without crampons or an ice axe last snowfall, now I have such gear, and I am waiting for it to snow again. I learn the skills from books. Grade 1 is satisfying enough for me, I like general mountaneering/survivalism/wildcamping rather than hard climbing. After grade 1 I would need climbing skills and a guide.

In reply to Offwidth:

Winter climbing was a natural progression combining experience gained from winter walking and summer climbing. First graded route was with a summer climbing partner: Blea Water Beck using a couple of walking axes and leather boots with strap-on crampons.

Newcomers to winter climbing often seem to place a lot emphasis on its technical aspects. I'd say that if you are a competent summer climber and winter mountaineer then you already have the skills necessary to climb graded routes in winter. Knowing how to ice axe arrest is probably useful, but being able to navigate off a route in a blizzard, keep yourself warm and well-fed and spot a dangerous slope are probably more important, IMO.

Peter
--

In reply to Offwidth:

Snowboarding in the Chamonix backcountry opened my eyes to easy grade winter mountaineering and I was hooked. After a season of grade I gully plodding I sought to involve my son, but realised he wouldn't listen to his old dad. So I hired a guide for a couple of outings in the Cuillin, which happily coincided with perfect conditions. We had the most incredible day traversing Sgurr Mhic Choinnich and that remains a treasured memory. The guide suggested that if I really wanted to get into ice climbing then I should learn to rock climb. And that is how I started on rock, in a mirror of how most people take to ice.

Since then it's been mostly self taught. I used a guide one other time and learnt from them too, but less than I'd hoped. And I enjoy the self-driven accumulation of experience.

In reply to Offwidth:

Thats an interesting point, I've only seen a woman once on Great end winter climbing. My mate said she's probably a lesbian but thats rather narrow minded, I'm sure he was having a joke. All 6 people on the winter climbing courses in Glenmore this week were blokes.

In reply to Offwidth:

I was strictly a crag rat when I got taken to the Ben by some older members of the NCC at the age of 16. We had the CIC booked apparently. I walked in on my own and finished up camping on the approach. Had to be 'rescued' by my mates
A few days of bliss followed, not a lot of climbing but adventures on the easier parts of the Ben and the CMD arete. This was in the '60's. The club scene then was invaluable.
Got seriously back into all that cold stuff in the '80's. I was then strictly self taught but it was enough to eventually pass MIC assessment.

In reply to Offwidth:

Someone was so desperate for a partner ( any partner) to take advantage of good conditions that he was prepared to risk his life to me.
( He is still alive by the way)