UKH

Hello all

I need an expert opinion on buying a new pair of ice axes (or combine with hammer) from the following list, with the suggested length (if applies):

- PETZL SUM’TEC 52 or 59cm 485g https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/Ice-axes/SUM-TEC#.VrIEZPmLRGo
- PETZL QUARK 52cm 550g https://www.petzl.com/GB/en/Sport/Ice-axes/QUARK#.VrIEW_mLRGo
- DMM APEX 50cm 687g http://dmmclimbing.com/products/apex/
- GRIVEL Air Tech Evo 48-53-58-66cm 473g http://www.grivel.com/products/ice/ice_axes/85-air_tech_evo_g-bone
^I think this is a new version of the famous Evo?
-BD COBRA 50cm 617g http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en_GB/ice-climbing-tools/cobra-ice-tool-BD...
-BD VIPER 50cm 570g http://blackdiamondequipment.com/en_GB/ice-climbing-tools/viper-BD412085_cf...

Aim:
Buy it once, buy it for life!
An all round tool that serves the purpose for next 5-6 years. Currently. I'm mainly into Scottish Winter munros and Alps in the summer. However, I've strong intentions for Greenland, Iceland, Denali/Alaska or further in next 2-3 years! I'm also going to K2 (base-camp) in next year or so.
I don't want to buy another pair for GBP 300-400 again! Most of my kit or mountaineering purchases in general are fit to be used in all above conditions. Ice axes and very few other items are a little confusing!
I've been so far hiring ice axes and I used DMM Flys - I think they are good but heavy.

What for:
Mainly safety and mixed ice/snow in Scottish Winter, Alps and hopefully bigger challenges in future. Also, traversing/glacier travel which is probably equally important. So basically, not too technical but not too basic either.

Price:
Not an issue as long as it is a one time investment!

Other info:
My hands aren't the biggest, gloves size S/M. I'm about 175 (5'8-5'9).

Required:
A suggestion -kindly- from the above list or if you think of another alternative instead?

Based on an extensive research, I'm under under the impression that the Grivel Air Tech is the answer. However, it is a little confusing to me that all other famous ice axes are in the range of 50-52cm. They mainly come in one size only. Whereas Air Tech is the only one with such various lengths. I need some light on this please.

PS. I've held a Grivel Air Tech 58cm in my hand, it doesn't touch the ground.

Finally, I do realize (as in a hard lesson I had!) that there isn't a perfect item for all conditions in mountaineering. Sometimes you might need a different tool for the same place to get the job done at a different season/conditions.
I know, trust me. But given this list and brief info - what would you pick?

In reply to Karakormian:

From your objectives, it sounds like you need a mountaineering axe, rather than a pair of climbing axes. DMM Cirque is good, and comes in a variety of sizes. But the Airtech and Sum'tec look good too.

In reply to Karakormian:

I would say Quarks. I have a pair and they are versatile axes. Vipers feel similar and would be an option (my partner has a pair). Apex are absolutely superb for steep ice (I have just bought a pair) but I think Quarks or Vipers would be slightly better for all round use. For walking and easy winter stuff I use a Camp Nanotech. Any of the technical axes are a bit of a compromise for walking or general mountaineering but the Quarks / Vipers plunge ok.

In reply to RyanOsborne:

+1 for DMM Cirque as an all-round mountaineering axe

In reply to Karakormian:

old style vipers for me, ie the bronze coloured ones

In reply to Karakormian:

What Scottish winter routes have you enjoyed the most?

In reply to Karakormian:

I'm going out on a limb here, all of your suggestions are good - just pick one.

Don't trust my opinion too much though, the first time I needed anything resembling an ice axe I ended up using a deer antler that I just happened to be carrying. (still got the antler, I think)

In reply to Mountain Llama:

Old skool vipers were grey weren't they?

In reply to galpinos:

nope...

or yes..

Completely new (this season) are black, previous model is the orange... and silver&/gray is the original.

In reply to Karakormian:

I'm a self confessed ice axe nut, so maybe not the best person to ask....but for lightweight, versatile axes for higher peaks (i use mine in the Andes), i'd go for the Sum'Tec. the pick shape is technical enough for ice, but ok for self arrest, and the shafts are clean with the moveable grip rest pushed up. great to plunge. I'm 5''5 and use a pair of 52cm. maybe with your height get a 59 adze and 52 hammer although a longer axe will always be a compromise for technical stuff. Another option would be a pair of new style DMM Raptors or Flys - you can swop the pick sets about meaning just one shaft will do you. Raptors come in 55cm and i think can be retro fitted with the lower handrest as well. Like all DMM they are a bit heavy but totally bombproof. Personally i would avoid the air tech for technical climbing as the picks arn't the right shape and for the odd time you might want them you will curse. Quarks are very very good axes but from the list of your objectives i would say they are overkill on the tech - a better axe for plunging sounds like more your thing.

In reply to Karakormian:

What about the Grivel 'Light' machine ??? an axe to progress with.... perhaps ??

http://www.grivel.com/products/ice/ice_axes/80-the_light_machine

In reply to Karakormian:

If you want technical climbing, my pick would be the new Viper (or perhaps Grivel North Machine). Not that fond of the Petzl Quark.


For easier mountaineering, a 60cm axe (Petzl Summit, BD Raven Pro or similar) would be the pick (one axe is enough).


If my target would be slightly technical snow & ice, but not too technical... Sum'Tec would be the obvious choice.

But it really depends on what you want to do.

In reply to Karakormian:
If you have £300 - £400 to spend. I think the best option for both doing Scottish winter routes and snow plodding, glacier travel (likely on big mountains) is to have a pair of technical axes and a mountaineering axe, therefor you are not compromising when doing either technical routes or easy stuff.

Something like Vipers or Quarks are great for Scottish mixed and steep stuff. Then a Grivel Sum'Tec or anything similar for a mountaineering axe.

The unfortunate truth is there is no axe that truly does it all. You may need to get more than one set if you want to do varied disciplines.

In reply to galpinos:

the new 2016 vipers are black - look at the OP's link above

In reply to Karakormian:

Buy the right technical pair (for you) for technical climbs and splash an extra £60 on a DMM cirque in the sales for mountain days. Anything else means compromising.

In reply to stratandrew:

+1. The Sum'tec is a great axe for mountaineering -- really versatile, and fine on steepish ice. I've climbed Scottish III/IV with mine and wish I had had them when climbing Alpine D/TD in years gone by.

In reply to Mountain Llama:

Ah! I was thinking of the originals, the orange ones were the new ones in my eyes!

In reply to HeMa:

Ah, didn't realise they'd changed them. Not available yet though? They do look pretty flair in black.....

In reply to Karakormian:

I haven't used them, but the salewa North X looks like it might be worth a test if you can get your hands on a pair, or if anyone on here has any reviews

http://www.salewa.com/en/north-x-ice-axe.html
http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/news.php?id=7289
http://www.mountainblog.eu/product/north-x-ice-axe-salewa-winter-2015-16/

In reply to galpinos:

They are... unless they were already sold out.

A bunch of the German shops had them in stock in the fall...

The flicklock upper grip seems a good touch. And by removing the Fang, they'd be good even on moderate snow...


I want a pair...

In reply to NottsRich:

CMD Arete is my favorite. Despite having one of the scariest times ever on a mountain on it last year!

In reply to Eeyore:


Add deer antlers to the list then!

In reply to Karakormian:

Thanks a lot guys! This is my first post here and I'm truly overwhelmed!

Basically, the most reasonable idea I think is to get both. A pair for technical and a longer mountaineering axe.

Quraks with a Grivel/Sum'tec - sounds good?

In reply to Karakormian:


That sounds sensible to me. A single mountaineering axe is fairly cheap, so if you were planning on getting technical axes anyway then get some that are really suited to climbing, and then get a cheaper mountaineering axe as well.

In reply to tspoon1981:

I doubt that I will get these for a hire anywhere in Scotland. They look similar to the Sum'tec.

In reply to NottsRich:

Would you suggest something over the Quarks?

Grivel North Machine?

In reply to Karakormian:

The normal Petzl Summit is more than good enough for a walking/general axe, cheaper than the Sum'tec too, i like mine, pretty light too.

In reply to Karakormian:


Yes...


Or the BD Viper.

Since my household has mainly BD tools, I'd pick the Viper (as all the ice tool pics from BD work with all the tools).

The Carbon North Machine seems tempting though. But the carbon and scottish mixed don't mix all that well (from my feeble experience). So if the North Machine is available with normal aluminum shaft, they indeed would a contender.

For the "alpine axe", Petzl Summit or BD Raven might be the obvious choices... That said DMM Cirque might also be a good bet... Best to head out to a shop and feel around which ones feels the best.

In reply to Karakormian:


No, but that's only because I've got Quarks so I'm biased!

And a DMM Cirque as my cheap ski/mountaineering axe.

In reply to Karakormian: As all my tools are Black Diamond (or Chouinard!) I'd have a look at Venoms for mountaineering and easyish technical climbing.

But I like my friends Sumtec's more They'd be my choice for most things to IV

In reply to Karakormian:

Can anyone suggest a store in the UK with the biggest stock of ice axes to visit and feel them in my hands before buying?

Local Snow+Rock has very limited stock. From the looks of Nevisports site, Fort William, they don't have much of a variety..

Maybe London somewhere?

In reply to Karakormian:

Just to conclude:

I'm buying a technical pair (either Quarks or Vipers), Vipers got more votes! Hopefully I can find them somewhere..

A mountaineering axe Grivel Air Tech or Petzl Summit - need to feel the later in my hands. It's way lighter that the Sum'tec/Air Tech/Summit Evo.

Thanks everyone.

In reply to Karakormian:


Don't neglect BD Raven (Pro).

And remember, you'll mostly use the mountaineering axe as a cane, so remember to try it also that way...

In reply to HeMa:

Yes - thanks.

In reply to Karakormian:

If I were buying a new mountaineering axe, I think it would be the Climbing Technology Alpine Tour

http://www.climbers-shop.com/9920038/products/climbing-technology-alpin-tou...

In reply to Karakormian:

The answer to such questions is usually Needlesports in Keswick:

http://www.needlesports.com/2647/ice-axes.aspx

In reply to rif:


Thanks a lot. Very helpful!