This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Hi,
There is a chance I might get to try a bit of ski touring in Scotland in the next couple of weeks, but I could do with a bit of advice on what gear to take. It'll be at least one overnight in a bothy, possibly 2.
Hoping my usual mountaineering kit will be suitable, although I'll need to sort out some better trousers. I guess my usual ski trousers will be too warm?
Mainly, though, what am I going to need for the bothy, as I've never slept in one before - whether I've got a suitable sleeping bag might be a limiting factor of the overnight.
Thanks in advance.
There is a chance I might get to try a bit of ski touring in Scotland in the next couple of weeks, but I could do with a bit of advice on what gear to take. It'll be at least one overnight in a bothy, possibly 2.
Hoping my usual mountaineering kit will be suitable, although I'll need to sort out some better trousers. I guess my usual ski trousers will be too warm?
Mainly, though, what am I going to need for the bothy, as I've never slept in one before - whether I've got a suitable sleeping bag might be a limiting factor of the overnight.
Thanks in advance.
In reply to LastBoyScout:
As with all things mountain, it depends how miserable you want to be. I tour in softshell trousers, a thermal, lightweight waterproof shell and thin gloves. Even when it's been well below zero and in high winds, when touring this is plenty warm enough - it's quite a workout.
In my pack for day touring I have fairly standard winter stuff: avalanche kit, fleece, warm gloves, hat, crampons, axe, skins, helmet, headtorch, nav stuff, food and water. I take risk on not having bulky warm kit or an emergency bivvie. If doing an overnighter, add thermarest (3/4 length - the rucksack works well enough under the feet), down jacket, decent sleeping bag and a jetboil stove. I can cram all this (just) into a 42L sack.
I've gradually cut my kit down and now have what I consider to be a bare minimum. Means the pack is nice and light (good when adding skis to it), and I have enough stuff to survive.
As with all things mountain, it depends how miserable you want to be. I tour in softshell trousers, a thermal, lightweight waterproof shell and thin gloves. Even when it's been well below zero and in high winds, when touring this is plenty warm enough - it's quite a workout.
In my pack for day touring I have fairly standard winter stuff: avalanche kit, fleece, warm gloves, hat, crampons, axe, skins, helmet, headtorch, nav stuff, food and water. I take risk on not having bulky warm kit or an emergency bivvie. If doing an overnighter, add thermarest (3/4 length - the rucksack works well enough under the feet), down jacket, decent sleeping bag and a jetboil stove. I can cram all this (just) into a 42L sack.
I've gradually cut my kit down and now have what I consider to be a bare minimum. Means the pack is nice and light (good when adding skis to it), and I have enough stuff to survive.
1
In reply to James Jackson:
Thanks.
I think I need to get a pair of softshell trousers and that should do me for clothes.
What rating of sleeping bag do you suggest? Trying to decide if an ME Helium 250 in a bivvy bag will be warm enough for one night or if I should take my bulkier Snowline.
Thanks.
I think I need to get a pair of softshell trousers and that should do me for clothes.
What rating of sleeping bag do you suggest? Trying to decide if an ME Helium 250 in a bivvy bag will be warm enough for one night or if I should take my bulkier Snowline.
In reply to LastBoyScout:
That's kind of an unanswerable question - depends on the weather forecast and your desired comfort level! I've done both a lightweight bag, relying on thermals and a down jacket (fairly miserable) to my full-on down bag (great, but bulky)...
That's kind of an unanswerable question - depends on the weather forecast and your desired comfort level! I've done both a lightweight bag, relying on thermals and a down jacket (fairly miserable) to my full-on down bag (great, but bulky)...
In reply to James Jackson:
Horses for courses and all that but my bare minimum includes a tiny survival bag at 100g and a light synthetic jacket which is good at stops anyway. In an emergency you'd be in for a grim and possibly fatal night out in just a base layer,fleece and shell.
> I take risk on not having bulky warm kit or an emergency bivvie. .
> I've gradually cut my kit down and now have what I consider to be a bare minimum.
Horses for courses and all that but my bare minimum includes a tiny survival bag at 100g and a light synthetic jacket which is good at stops anyway. In an emergency you'd be in for a grim and possibly fatal night out in just a base layer,fleece and shell.
In reply to LastBoyScout:
Hi there LBS. This is a hard question to answer as the Cairngorms in February can be beautiful blue skies and powder or they can be wild horizontal snow blasting into every bit of exposed skin and turn your clothing into sheets of ice. You could be doing 6 miles an hour or one. And as for the bothies, there could be a fireplace set with 20kg of coal to burn with four people to keep you company or they could be empty and cold. Either way, you'll want to know your gear will cope and it's the age old conundrum of weight and comfort vs light and uncomfortable. You should already know your limits and if you don't, go somewhere else and learn them, or just go out for day trips this year. As for your sleeping bag, and whether you're taking a decent sleeping mat is also important, I'd hope you're taking something rated to -5 for a decent sleep, and -10 if you want to sleep well. FWIW, I have never toured in the Cairngorms in winter but I have spent many trips overnighting at the bothies and crossing the plateau. I'd go to Corrour and the Hutchinson hut for small well insulated bothies, which need only a little coal to warm up. Glen Feshie and Bob Scott's are great but can be busy and, sorry Kev, Ryvoan can be a bit cold. All the best and let us know how you get on.
Tom
Hi there LBS. This is a hard question to answer as the Cairngorms in February can be beautiful blue skies and powder or they can be wild horizontal snow blasting into every bit of exposed skin and turn your clothing into sheets of ice. You could be doing 6 miles an hour or one. And as for the bothies, there could be a fireplace set with 20kg of coal to burn with four people to keep you company or they could be empty and cold. Either way, you'll want to know your gear will cope and it's the age old conundrum of weight and comfort vs light and uncomfortable. You should already know your limits and if you don't, go somewhere else and learn them, or just go out for day trips this year. As for your sleeping bag, and whether you're taking a decent sleeping mat is also important, I'd hope you're taking something rated to -5 for a decent sleep, and -10 if you want to sleep well. FWIW, I have never toured in the Cairngorms in winter but I have spent many trips overnighting at the bothies and crossing the plateau. I'd go to Corrour and the Hutchinson hut for small well insulated bothies, which need only a little coal to warm up. Glen Feshie and Bob Scott's are great but can be busy and, sorry Kev, Ryvoan can be a bit cold. All the best and let us know how you get on.
Tom
Post edited at 07:39
1
In reply to the abmmc:
Yes, indeed - and I'm probably over-thinking it, as usual
The Helium is rated 0 to -5 for a good night's sleep - I reckon with thermals, fleece, bivvy bag and hat, I should be ok for 1 night. There will be at least 3 of us going.
Thanks for the detail on which bothies.
> you'll want to know your gear will cope and it's the age old conundrum of weight and comfort vs light and uncomfortable... As for your sleeping bag, and whether you're taking a decent sleeping mat is also important, I'd hope you're taking something rated to -5 for a decent sleep, and -10 if you want to sleep well.
Yes, indeed - and I'm probably over-thinking it, as usual
The Helium is rated 0 to -5 for a good night's sleep - I reckon with thermals, fleece, bivvy bag and hat, I should be ok for 1 night. There will be at least 3 of us going.
Thanks for the detail on which bothies.
In reply to LastBoyScout:
JamesJackson's list is good in my opinion. I would probably add a light bivy bag.
Like its been said before its hard to answer the sleeping bag question, but unless you are a very hot sleeper I'd go for something with more insulation than 250g for winter. I know some people might (suffer) use a bag like this, and its very much dependant on current weather/temp. I got a similar bag and it just wasn't enough. Do do have to take manufacturers guides with a pinch of salt. I swapped it for a Rab 400g fill bag, which I would take on a a bothy trip if the weather was around 0 to -5.
Hope you have a good trip.
JamesJackson's list is good in my opinion. I would probably add a light bivy bag.
Like its been said before its hard to answer the sleeping bag question, but unless you are a very hot sleeper I'd go for something with more insulation than 250g for winter. I know some people might (suffer) use a bag like this, and its very much dependant on current weather/temp. I got a similar bag and it just wasn't enough. Do do have to take manufacturers guides with a pinch of salt. I swapped it for a Rab 400g fill bag, which I would take on a a bothy trip if the weather was around 0 to -5.
Hope you have a good trip.
In reply to LastBoyScout:
A hot water bottle makes a massive difference.
> The Helium is rated 0 to -5 for a good night's sleep - I reckon with thermals, fleece, bivvy bag and hat, I should be ok for 1 night. There will be at least 3 of us going.
A hot water bottle makes a massive difference.
In reply to LastBoyScout:
It also has a "Comfort" Rating of 6 degC and a "Comfort Limit" of 2 degC. I have a 300g down bag that I've used around 0 and I wasn't comfy! You'll survive but won't sleep that well. Remember, bothies can get quite cold, especially compared to some tents and as said by a previous poster, your mat (Neo air or downmat?) and a hot water bottle make a difference.
> Yes, indeed - and I'm probably over-thinking it, as usual
> The Helium is rated 0 to -5 for a good night's sleep
It also has a "Comfort" Rating of 6 degC and a "Comfort Limit" of 2 degC. I have a 300g down bag that I've used around 0 and I wasn't comfy! You'll survive but won't sleep that well. Remember, bothies can get quite cold, especially compared to some tents and as said by a previous poster, your mat (Neo air or downmat?) and a hot water bottle make a difference.
In reply to LastBoyScout:
way too little for me;
last time I kiped in the Hutchison in winter I had my ME Titan 750..... nice and toasty.....
it'll make all the diference between waking up and being keen to get out skiing / and just wishing you'd brought a teleportation mashine to get you home......
check out the cairngorm & Braemar weatherstations for a feel for expected temperatures.
we had 5 in the bothy, and that doesn't really heat the place up that much.....
> .... ME Helium 250 in a bivvy bag....
way too little for me;
last time I kiped in the Hutchison in winter I had my ME Titan 750..... nice and toasty.....
it'll make all the diference between waking up and being keen to get out skiing / and just wishing you'd brought a teleportation mashine to get you home......
check out the cairngorm & Braemar weatherstations for a feel for expected temperatures.
we had 5 in the bothy, and that doesn't really heat the place up that much.....
In reply to daWalt:
Thanks, all. I think I'll end up taking the Snowline - considering the Helium sounds a bit too keen on keeping the weight and bulk down.
Thanks, all. I think I'll end up taking the Snowline - considering the Helium sounds a bit too keen on keeping the weight and bulk down.
1
In reply to LastBoyScout:
A good rule of thumb for coal is 1kg per person per night. Try that first, if you have some left over then reduce next time.
I've never had any left over...
A good rule of thumb for coal is 1kg per person per night. Try that first, if you have some left over then reduce next time.
I've never had any left over...
1
1
In reply to Jim Walton:
Yeah you're right about the amount of coal. 1kg of coal each for three people means bringing the room temperature above freezing in either Corrour or the Hutchie. You'll enjoy your night better if you're not wearing your gloves all evening.
the snowline is a good bag for the bothies in the Cairngorms in February.
Tom
Yeah you're right about the amount of coal. 1kg of coal each for three people means bringing the room temperature above freezing in either Corrour or the Hutchie. You'll enjoy your night better if you're not wearing your gloves all evening.
the snowline is a good bag for the bothies in the Cairngorms in February.
Tom
In reply to the abmmc:
Actually Hutchies is pretty warm since the refurbishment. With 6 people and plenty of fuel it was 23degrees in there, this was on a pretty cold night in Feb. Too hot to sleep, not that we could anyway with that massive brummie snoring!
Actually Hutchies is pretty warm since the refurbishment. With 6 people and plenty of fuel it was 23degrees in there, this was on a pretty cold night in Feb. Too hot to sleep, not that we could anyway with that massive brummie snoring!
In reply to thegoatstroker:
Earplugs - Check
> , not that we could anyway with that massive brummie snoring!
Earplugs - Check
1
In reply to LastBoyScout:
If you're going to a bothy you're gojng to need something off this list....
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/t.php?n=633490
Can't believe no-one else has mentioned it!
If you're going to a bothy you're gojng to need something off this list....
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/t.php?n=633490
Can't believe no-one else has mentioned it!
In reply to DaveHK:
Sorry, I do have a lightweight survival bag in the first-aid kit, just not a full-on bivvie. As you say, horses for courses.
Sorry, I do have a lightweight survival bag in the first-aid kit, just not a full-on bivvie. As you say, horses for courses.
In reply to Father Noel Furlong:
Perhaps everyone has taken it as read? I'm pretty certain some Highland Park will be tucked in somewhere
Perhaps everyone has taken it as read? I'm pretty certain some Highland Park will be tucked in somewhere
In reply to LastBoyScout:
What bothys are you planning on visiting? For instance the Hutchison hut has a stove, so for a bit of extra weight and comfort you could take one of those ready to go fire logs. A bit of heat would mean a warmer night and dryer kit for the next day too... Having said that two of us stayed there in December with no fire at all and it was still + 5c in the hut in the morning.
With clothing in mind, I too usually go for soft-shell trousers and a hardshell jacket. But! For overnight stuff I would wear some powerstretch tights under some hardshell trousers, staying dryer overall and allowing for a night in your bag in warm underwear. When staying in bothys take some candles, you'd be surprised at the heat they create!
Light is right but I wouldn't be leaving the car without a bivy bag. Ever. Even a orange survival bag will increase your chances.
What bothys are you planning on visiting? For instance the Hutchison hut has a stove, so for a bit of extra weight and comfort you could take one of those ready to go fire logs. A bit of heat would mean a warmer night and dryer kit for the next day too... Having said that two of us stayed there in December with no fire at all and it was still + 5c in the hut in the morning.
With clothing in mind, I too usually go for soft-shell trousers and a hardshell jacket. But! For overnight stuff I would wear some powerstretch tights under some hardshell trousers, staying dryer overall and allowing for a night in your bag in warm underwear. When staying in bothys take some candles, you'd be surprised at the heat they create!
Light is right but I wouldn't be leaving the car without a bivy bag. Ever. Even a orange survival bag will increase your chances.
In reply to connor:
Aye but given this winter it was probably +10c outside!
> Having said that two of us stayed there in December with no fire at all and it was still + 5c in the hut in the morning.
Aye but given this winter it was probably +10c outside!
In reply to connor:
No idea as yet which bothy we might end up at - depend a bit on where we start from and so on. Mate in Scotland is looking into that side of the plan.
Bought a pair of softshell trousers at the weekend - should be ok with thermals under those, as I tend to walk hot.
Bivvy bag packed.
No idea as yet which bothy we might end up at - depend a bit on where we start from and so on. Mate in Scotland is looking into that side of the plan.
Bought a pair of softshell trousers at the weekend - should be ok with thermals under those, as I tend to walk hot.
Bivvy bag packed.
In reply to DaveHK:
Definitely colder than +10c, there was snow down to sea level, my beard looked like a giant icicle after we got off the hill the next day.
Definitely colder than +10c, there was snow down to sea level, my beard looked like a giant icicle after we got off the hill the next day.
In reply to LastBoyScout:
Good call I reckon. I've got an old snowline and a helium 250. I'd only use the 250 for summer or warm spring. Camping at just below zero in it was not a pleasant experience and I ended up lobbing on all my layers, shivering and deploying the hot nalgene bottle. The fact that you can see daylight through it when held up doesn't inspire confidence!
The snowline is toasty and you'll really appreciate the warmth when you sleep.
Good call I reckon. I've got an old snowline and a helium 250. I'd only use the 250 for summer or warm spring. Camping at just below zero in it was not a pleasant experience and I ended up lobbing on all my layers, shivering and deploying the hot nalgene bottle. The fact that you can see daylight through it when held up doesn't inspire confidence!
The snowline is toasty and you'll really appreciate the warmth when you sleep.
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Elsewhere on the site
Loading Notifications...