Swapping hands axe leash

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 Pbob 23 Jan 2016
Ok. So I know in theory that if you are on a reasonable slope you should hold the head of your axe with your uphill hand. Fine. When you change direction, you should swap hands holding the axe. OK. But it's a total faff swapping over the leash. For the leash to be useful it needs to be no longer than the shaft of the axe. That means that you can't hold the axe in one hand while it's leashed to the other. Anyone out there got any cunning leash arrangement that gets around the problem? Cheers.
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 kwoods 23 Jan 2016
In reply to Pbob:

I have a leash attached to my walking axe, but I don't really use it. At most I have the leash in the palm of my hand (with fingers through the leash) so it doesn't get in the way, and it's easy to transfer. I have to say I don't especially feel the need for them, and it's easier to do without.
In reply to Pbob:

Have a detachable leash.

Don't use it when walking, you don't need it.

If you get on to graded ground it (the leash) may become useful.
If so put it back on the axe.
OP Pbob 24 Jan 2016
In reply to Pbob:

I always use a lease now after an incident many years ago when I took a fast slide on a fairly big steep slope. I managed to break but the axe shaft slid out of my hand. I was left literally dangling from the leash with no hands on the axe. Sorry, imho its essential.
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 kwoods 24 Jan 2016
In reply to Pbob:

Seems untasteful that anyone gave your comment dislikes without offering feedback. So...

Did the leash truly help you in that last situation? Whether you'd used it or not, you still let go of the axe. Was one hand over the head of the ice axe as per self arrest position, were two hands on the shaft allowing you to 'slip' off the bottom? A leash shouldn't help you grab hold of the axe any better. If you lose grip, then you are out of control. The thing to take away is perhaps not to let go of the axe under any circumstances.

Kevin
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 3leggeddog 24 Jan 2016
In reply to Pbob:

Don't use the leashes whilst plodding up slopes, wrap it around the head of the axe and tie loosely, this keeps it out of the way and helps insulate your hand from the head of the axe
In reply to Pbob:

There are three circumstances when generally it's more effective to use the axe with a leash fitted:

1. Weighting an overhead placed axe to assist in progress (pick or adze in snow/ice or hooked).

2. Step cutting.

3. Working snow such as when digging bucket seat or excavating emergency shelter.

The first is pretty obvious. The second becomes very obvious when you cut steps all the way up a classic gully....
Best compromise is having leash which can simply be lark's footed to the axe when required, as already mentioned. In all other circumstances leave it in a handy pocket
 Brass Nipples 24 Jan 2016
In reply to Pbob:

It really shouldn't take that long to swap over with a leash. You don't need the loop tight, just enough to catch the axe if you fumble it. Plus do longer zig zags if you find it a faff.

OP Pbob 24 Jan 2016
In reply to kwoods:

Thanks Kevin. I never bother taking any notice of likes and dislikes.

I was self arresting after slipping on the Balahulish (sorry about spelling) horseshoe. The type of accidental slip anyone could make. Conditions where deep snow with a good layer of ice on top. I got up a reasonable speed very quickly then self arrested in textbook style. When the axe 'bit' into the ice the force pulled my hand off the head, and my hand on the shaft slip off immediately afterwards. When I stopped, the axe head was firmly in the ice and all my weight was going through the leash to my wrist (my hand being empty). Now its true that I was wearing a pair of Dachstein mitts and the axe was an old club one with a wooden handle, so we aren't talking about an ideal situation for friction. Afterwards I invested in a better axe with a rubber grip and some mitts with more grip. I also always now tie the leash so that it comes tight before the end of the axe. But I wasn't going that fast and I've got pretty good hand/arm strength. I'm convinced that the leash is an essential for safety.

Of course having said that I was out another time on Ben Alligen (sorry spelling again) when someone in the party took a big slide. The axe didn't help and the slide turned into a tumble. He came to rest eventually and the worst injury he sustained was from landing on the axe which had flailed around on the end of the leash the whole time.
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 JayPee630 24 Jan 2016
In reply to Pbob:

Never use a leash unless cutting steps, or going straight up a steep gully/slope. Agree, it's more of a faf and probably danger to keep swapping it from hand to hand. I don't even have mine attached, have it in a pocket in case.
 Mountain Llama 24 Jan 2016
In reply to Pbob:

on long snow plods where you change direction frequently and dropping the axe would not be an option, then I use 5mm cord to make a leash that I clip to my harness and the axe head or just use one side of the spring leash. This makes it easy to swap hands and stay connected to the axe and arrest etc if required.

If I need to cut steps etc and want to use the leash then I would stop and unclip the leash, alter the length and cut steps, reverse and walk off.

If you,ve not got a harness on then use your rucksack hip belt or a sling or cord over your shoulder like a bandolier.

Davey
OP Pbob 24 Jan 2016
In reply to Mountain Llama:

Cheers for that. Sounds promising. I'll have to have a play tomorrow. Thanks
 wbo 25 Jan 2016
In reply to Pbob: i use a very simple leash on my walking axe made from tape with a larks foot loop so swapping over is easy.

My technical tools are leash less ( or rather have a clipper) but a walking axe needs a leash. When you take a big, fast slide not dropping the axe is easier said than done

 Billhook 25 Jan 2016
In reply to Pbob:

Don't bother with the leash. In theory at least, if you brake gently your axe shouldn't get pulled out of your hand anyway.

If you feel you need to keep the leash on then on big slopes take longer diagonal uphills so there's less changing hands.

Don't forget leashes are relatively modern concept and before the 70/80's most mountaineers didn't use them.
 Simon Caldwell 25 Jan 2016
In reply to Pbob:

On my walking axe, the leash is longer than the shaft to allow easy swapping between hands. If I ever need the leash to be shorter (eg extra support when step cutting) then I wrap a few coils round the head/shaft.
 Sharp 26 Jan 2016
In reply to Pbob:

> ... I'm convinced that the leash is an essential for safety.

Of course each to their own but I'm not sure that's a particularly logical conclusion, one time you slipped and lady luck shined on you because you had a leash on and the axe managed to stick in something, the other time your friend slipped and the dangling axe stabbed them. It's just a question of which you think the most likely scenario is in most conditions.

I remember reading about an instuctor who took a very long fall down a steep slope (many years ago) and managed to regain a grasp of their axe because they had their leash on but I've also heard of other people being cut up because they've had a heavy piece of metal swinging around on their wrists. I think if you fall on an icy slope, a very steep slope or you have a technical tool then your chances of self arrest aren't great. Hindsights a wonderful thing but not falling is your first line of defence, the leash is pretty irrelevant.
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 99ster 26 Jan 2016
In reply to Sharp:
> Of course each to their own but I'm not sure that's a particularly logical conclusion, one time you slipped and lady luck shined on you because you had a leash on and the axe managed to stick in something, the other time your friend slipped and the dangling axe stabbed them. It's just a question of which you think the most likely scenario is in most conditions.

> I remember reading about an instuctor who took a very long fall down a steep slope (many years ago) and managed to regain a grasp of their axe because they had their leash on but I've also heard of other people being cut up because they've had a heavy piece of metal swinging around on their wrists. I think if you fall on an icy slope, a very steep slope or you have a technical tool then your chances of self arrest aren't great. Hindsights a wonderful thing but not falling is your first line of defence, the leash is pretty irrelevant.

Exactly.

The problem with using a leash, especially when swapping hands, is that this is when you should be concentrating on what your feet are doing - not on faffing about with a leash! Instead of worrying about a leash you should develop the skills & awareness not to fall in the first place, together with the correct use of an ice axe for an ice axe arrest.

Worried about letting go and your axe flying off when cutting steps? Learn how to do it properly so you don't have to rely on a leash.

Another classic that I've witnessed recently is the 2ft long leash hanging down from an ice axe, and trailing along the ground whilst the owner is walking along some pretty sketchy ground. What could possibly go wrong?

You'll never see a professional a professional mountain guide use an ice axe leash on their general walking axe - there are a number of reasons for that. Including on more technical ground you'll often want to stash your ice axe down the back of your pack - to free both hands. If you're tied to the axe by a leash...yet more faffing - so it's just not practical .
Post edited at 09:29
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