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I feel quite inexperienced in soft shell jackets market. I have few soft shell jackets bought on eBay (most of them were under 20 pounds), but I feel like I would like something better as the current jackets either do not have hoods or they don't fit too well. Apart from the fit, what's the most important in the soft shell jacket? I am planning to use it for Scottish mountaineering and possibly some ice climbing (hence, need a hood suitable for helmets, I found ME hoods to be the best so far). Seems like the jackets are made of Gore Windstopper, Polartec or manufacturer's own fabric. What's the best? I heard that Windstopper is not that breathable, but there's obviously trade off between breathability and protection. Rab Vapour Rise looks different from other soft shells, but they have Alpine Lite, Guide and Flex versions... Too much choice!
I got ME Squall which I absolutely love, but I don't think I could use it in winter. However, a possible combination of fleece, Primaloft vest and Squall would probably do the trick too.
I got ME Squall which I absolutely love, but I don't think I could use it in winter. However, a possible combination of fleece, Primaloft vest and Squall would probably do the trick too.
1
In reply to PPP:
Get a Buffalo .
http://www.needlesports.com/content/buffalo-clothing.aspx
http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/cut_the_crap1
Having said that I also have a Patagonia Levitation hoody (which I picked up dirt cheap in Toronto) which is pretty good too. Nothing you don't need.
Get a Buffalo .
http://www.needlesports.com/content/buffalo-clothing.aspx
http://andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/cut_the_crap1
Having said that I also have a Patagonia Levitation hoody (which I picked up dirt cheap in Toronto) which is pretty good too. Nothing you don't need.
1
1
In reply to PPP:
Fit is the main factor, find something that fits you well and is comfortable and you will probably use it everywhere.
Windstopper comes in several varieties (I'm not entirely convinced there are any major differences) but it is essentially a marginally more breathable waterproof without taped seams. It works best in cold, dry environments like you would find in alpine winter or higher altitude. I find in the UK it isn't breathable enough for me, however the fabric is often quite hard wearing.
Polartec Powershield is a similar concept, although it uses a perforated membrane. It's basically some light fleecy stuff glued onto a stretchy fabric, the glue creates the membrane. I like Powershield, I find it's quite breathable (sufficiently so for UK winter and alpine summer) and the fleece lining is quite nice in cooler conditions. I think it has a Hydrostatic head of 500mm, and a CFM of somewhere around 5-8, so it offers reasonable breathability, weather protection and warmth.
It also comes in Pro and High loft varieties. Pro being much more similar to Windstopper, although more breathable. It has a hydrostatic head of 5000mm, so is pretty good against rain. High loft is super fluffy on the inside, and very warm.
Stretch woven fabric like Mountain Equipment's Exolite is basically tightly woven stretchy fabric. It's more breathable, and more stretchy at the expense of some weather protection. These are a good option for active pursuits or if you get sweaty, they are also more versatile as you can combine it with insulation as required.
Dri-clime and Vapour rise are made with two floating layers, a pretext type wind resistant outer and a fleece/pile inner. The separate layers can bind up and restrict movement, and durability is questionable, but they are very breathable and wick sweat well. They can be warm though, so perhaps less versatile, and I don't think they have helmet compatible hoods.
I use a Powershield jacket in the winter in the UK (ME Astron), and for higher altitude and colder Alps trips, and a stretch woven for summer UK and warmer Alps (Arcteryx Gamma SL hybrid, and ME Squall for cragging). The SL has a great hood and is very breathable, it's expensive, but can be found at a good price online.
Montane Alpine Stretch is a good cheaper option, this is a stretch woven, with good features and good price. Montane Sabretooth is a warmer option made with Powershield, with similar features, but more expensive. In my opinion Arcteryx and Mountain Equipment make the best hoods.
Fit is the main factor, find something that fits you well and is comfortable and you will probably use it everywhere.
Windstopper comes in several varieties (I'm not entirely convinced there are any major differences) but it is essentially a marginally more breathable waterproof without taped seams. It works best in cold, dry environments like you would find in alpine winter or higher altitude. I find in the UK it isn't breathable enough for me, however the fabric is often quite hard wearing.
Polartec Powershield is a similar concept, although it uses a perforated membrane. It's basically some light fleecy stuff glued onto a stretchy fabric, the glue creates the membrane. I like Powershield, I find it's quite breathable (sufficiently so for UK winter and alpine summer) and the fleece lining is quite nice in cooler conditions. I think it has a Hydrostatic head of 500mm, and a CFM of somewhere around 5-8, so it offers reasonable breathability, weather protection and warmth.
It also comes in Pro and High loft varieties. Pro being much more similar to Windstopper, although more breathable. It has a hydrostatic head of 5000mm, so is pretty good against rain. High loft is super fluffy on the inside, and very warm.
Stretch woven fabric like Mountain Equipment's Exolite is basically tightly woven stretchy fabric. It's more breathable, and more stretchy at the expense of some weather protection. These are a good option for active pursuits or if you get sweaty, they are also more versatile as you can combine it with insulation as required.
Dri-clime and Vapour rise are made with two floating layers, a pretext type wind resistant outer and a fleece/pile inner. The separate layers can bind up and restrict movement, and durability is questionable, but they are very breathable and wick sweat well. They can be warm though, so perhaps less versatile, and I don't think they have helmet compatible hoods.
I use a Powershield jacket in the winter in the UK (ME Astron), and for higher altitude and colder Alps trips, and a stretch woven for summer UK and warmer Alps (Arcteryx Gamma SL hybrid, and ME Squall for cragging). The SL has a great hood and is very breathable, it's expensive, but can be found at a good price online.
Montane Alpine Stretch is a good cheaper option, this is a stretch woven, with good features and good price. Montane Sabretooth is a warmer option made with Powershield, with similar features, but more expensive. In my opinion Arcteryx and Mountain Equipment make the best hoods.
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In reply to PPP:
your right there is a tradeoff between breathing and water proof.
Ironically the best soft shell is advertised as waterproof and it's called paramo.
I've used windbloc, decathlon, and arcteryx and rab vapourrise
windbloc was similar to windstopper sweaty.
the decathlon is a stretchy non membrane and amazingly cheap so breaths better but a cold wind will get through.
rab vapourrise I wore all the time literally from stanage to the himilaya via big routes in alps. eventually tore it to pieces.
the arcteryx I have is all non membrane it looks smart fits well I like the lightest ones and the gamma mx.
your right there is a tradeoff between breathing and water proof.
Ironically the best soft shell is advertised as waterproof and it's called paramo.
I've used windbloc, decathlon, and arcteryx and rab vapourrise
windbloc was similar to windstopper sweaty.
the decathlon is a stretchy non membrane and amazingly cheap so breaths better but a cold wind will get through.
rab vapourrise I wore all the time literally from stanage to the himilaya via big routes in alps. eventually tore it to pieces.
the arcteryx I have is all non membrane it looks smart fits well I like the lightest ones and the gamma mx.
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In reply to alasdair19:
It was only a matter of time before someone mentioned the P word
I'm a paramo convert for the last twenty years or so having moved on from Buffalo and it does really work for uk hill use. I have dabbled with soft shell on occasion recently and have a tab exodus which I really like for cragging on blustery days but I can't see a benefit in winter over paramo type stuff. In the interests of full disclosure I now use a Furtech Claw 2 jacket which is a much closer cut than my old paramo and addresses the criticism about the baggy fit of paramo gear. The Furtech weighs about the same as the Exodus, breathes as well, is fully windproof and I don't need to pack a hard shell to lob on top if the heavens open. It doesn't stretch but the cut means that this isn't an issue.
If it is really wet, I do get damp but in reality no more so than my Event-clad colleagues and I dry quicker too.
> your right there is a tradeoff between breathing and water proof.
> Ironically the best soft shell is advertised as waterproof and it's called paramo.
It was only a matter of time before someone mentioned the P word
I'm a paramo convert for the last twenty years or so having moved on from Buffalo and it does really work for uk hill use. I have dabbled with soft shell on occasion recently and have a tab exodus which I really like for cragging on blustery days but I can't see a benefit in winter over paramo type stuff. In the interests of full disclosure I now use a Furtech Claw 2 jacket which is a much closer cut than my old paramo and addresses the criticism about the baggy fit of paramo gear. The Furtech weighs about the same as the Exodus, breathes as well, is fully windproof and I don't need to pack a hard shell to lob on top if the heavens open. It doesn't stretch but the cut means that this isn't an issue.
If it is really wet, I do get damp but in reality no more so than my Event-clad colleagues and I dry quicker too.
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In reply to angry pirate:
the furteck looks good. I had a whole winter in Scotland with a daily choice between a top of the range g tex and paramo.
I wore it once on a gore sponsored day
the furteck looks good. I had a whole winter in Scotland with a daily choice between a top of the range g tex and paramo.
I wore it once on a gore sponsored day
1
In reply to angry pirate:
I couldn't agree less. The only benefit I can see in Paramo is that it relieves you of the need to choose between garments. I stay drier in goretex with the right layers under and I breathe better in stretch woven softshell or pertex.
Of course you don't always know what conditions you can expect but a windshirt + waterproof weighs less than a Paramo outer, so take both. How the hell anyone finds comfort wandering the hills in Autumn or Spring wearing a Paramo smock is beyond me. Of course some people run much colder than me and that seems to be true of many fans who've eulogised about the stuff. OP beware!!
The alternative:
As for what are normally described as softshells, I think they have a limited application outside winter climbing, when a windshirt (with waterproof in the pack) is a far more comfortable garment to wear. Hiking and 3 season climbing I take my holy trinity of waterproof, windshirt and breathable insulation layer (Polartech Alpha or, better still, Nano Air). You have wind, warmth and water covered and a combination to suit every possible variation of temperature and level of exertion.
I couldn't agree less. The only benefit I can see in Paramo is that it relieves you of the need to choose between garments. I stay drier in goretex with the right layers under and I breathe better in stretch woven softshell or pertex.
Of course you don't always know what conditions you can expect but a windshirt + waterproof weighs less than a Paramo outer, so take both. How the hell anyone finds comfort wandering the hills in Autumn or Spring wearing a Paramo smock is beyond me. Of course some people run much colder than me and that seems to be true of many fans who've eulogised about the stuff. OP beware!!
The alternative:
As for what are normally described as softshells, I think they have a limited application outside winter climbing, when a windshirt (with waterproof in the pack) is a far more comfortable garment to wear. Hiking and 3 season climbing I take my holy trinity of waterproof, windshirt and breathable insulation layer (Polartech Alpha or, better still, Nano Air). You have wind, warmth and water covered and a combination to suit every possible variation of temperature and level of exertion.
2
1
In reply to PPP:
Another thumbs up for Rab Vapour Rise and also the Arc'teryx Gamma MX which seems to be the perfect combo of warmth/breathability for me. Paramo also good for Scottish winter unless it's utterly minging (which it often is- but thats not soft shell weather either). I prefer to stay well clear of soft shell with a membrane for UK stuff. It there is a walk in its too sweaty and too heavy to have in the bag.
You answer you own question anyway- get one with a decent hood, go for something breathable- you can test this in the shop by trying to breathe through the fabric (try both sides of the fabric give you a rough indication windproofness too).
Another thumbs up for Rab Vapour Rise and also the Arc'teryx Gamma MX which seems to be the perfect combo of warmth/breathability for me. Paramo also good for Scottish winter unless it's utterly minging (which it often is- but thats not soft shell weather either). I prefer to stay well clear of soft shell with a membrane for UK stuff. It there is a walk in its too sweaty and too heavy to have in the bag.
You answer you own question anyway- get one with a decent hood, go for something breathable- you can test this in the shop by trying to breathe through the fabric (try both sides of the fabric give you a rough indication windproofness too).
In reply to BnB:
True, it does. To muddy the waters slightly I tend to live in a pertex windproof in most conditions on the hill unless it starts actively raining, then out comes the Paramo which I use as my hardshell. My Quito weighs in at 500ish grams so a wee bit heavier than a modern hard shell but not by much. My winter Claw jacket is 750ish, about the same as some softshell. In winter I'll wear the windproof for the walk in and then lob the Furtech on for the route. The extra weight of the top being lined is balanced by lighter fleece layers underneath.
I am quite cold blooded so find paramo works fine all year round. After all, if it's raining then it's usually overcast and windy enough to drop the temperature.
Like you say, it is Marmite gear. Take us converts' comments with a pinch of salt.
> Of course you don't always know what conditions you can expect but a windshirt + waterproof weighs less than a Paramo outer, so take both. How the hell anyone finds comfort wandering the hills in Autumn or Spring wearing a Paramo smock is beyond me.
True, it does. To muddy the waters slightly I tend to live in a pertex windproof in most conditions on the hill unless it starts actively raining, then out comes the Paramo which I use as my hardshell. My Quito weighs in at 500ish grams so a wee bit heavier than a modern hard shell but not by much. My winter Claw jacket is 750ish, about the same as some softshell. In winter I'll wear the windproof for the walk in and then lob the Furtech on for the route. The extra weight of the top being lined is balanced by lighter fleece layers underneath.
I am quite cold blooded so find paramo works fine all year round. After all, if it's raining then it's usually overcast and windy enough to drop the temperature.
Like you say, it is Marmite gear. Take us converts' comments with a pinch of salt.
In reply to PPP:
Not sure if anyones mentioned weight. I have a rab baltaro guide and it's the most perfect thing to clilmb in but i never take it because its heavy and bulky to pack for the walk in. A hard shell with a synthetic midlayer is much lighter, smaller to pack, warmer to wear and waterproof. Just not as nice to climb in but for the grades I climb hard shells don't really limit me!
FWIW have a vote against paramo from me but like others have said it's a marmite thing. I think the more you sweat the more you should consider paramo but I much prefer the bomb proof ness of a hardshell and not been let down yet. Paramo does seem to work, it has so many advocates, but whenever you get back from being out in the rain with someone wearing it their kit looks saturated and soggy and you do quite often see people drenched in sweat wearing one. I get the theory that it pumps it away from your skin but I'd rather stay dry to start with and for scottish winter I think 95% of the time the hard shell is perfect.
Not sure if anyones mentioned weight. I have a rab baltaro guide and it's the most perfect thing to clilmb in but i never take it because its heavy and bulky to pack for the walk in. A hard shell with a synthetic midlayer is much lighter, smaller to pack, warmer to wear and waterproof. Just not as nice to climb in but for the grades I climb hard shells don't really limit me!
FWIW have a vote against paramo from me but like others have said it's a marmite thing. I think the more you sweat the more you should consider paramo but I much prefer the bomb proof ness of a hardshell and not been let down yet. Paramo does seem to work, it has so many advocates, but whenever you get back from being out in the rain with someone wearing it their kit looks saturated and soggy and you do quite often see people drenched in sweat wearing one. I get the theory that it pumps it away from your skin but I'd rather stay dry to start with and for scottish winter I think 95% of the time the hard shell is perfect.
Post edited at 12:44
In reply to angry pirate:
Hmm, strangely similar to me, except I have an Aspira for winter, not the claw.
For BnB and his comments on wearing a smock in spring or autumn in the hills; too hot, go for a baslayer with pertex windproof over the top, if there is dampness, use the Quito (my paramo knowledge is a wee bit out of date, as I have stuff and don't need to replace it...)
Seriously though, if you want to try the softshell you go back to again, again and again, try a montane featherlite smock. It's the size of an apple and weighs less, use it over t-shirts for easy to carry layer for belaying at the top of a crag, or to keep the snow off for the walk in, use it over a light fleece for instant buffalo. It's amazing, I have 3 in various stages of wear as I use them so much. The most used bit of kit I have. And it costs £40, did I say it weighs less than everything else??
> True, it does. To muddy the waters slightly I tend to live in a pertex windproof in most conditions on the hill unless it starts actively raining, then out comes the Paramo which I use as my hardshell. My Quito weighs in at 500ish grams so a wee bit heavier than a modern hard shell but not by much. My winter Claw jacket is 750ish, about the same as some softshell. In winter I'll wear the windproof for the walk in and then lob the Furtech on for the route. The extra weight of the top being lined is balanced by lighter fleece layers underneath.
Hmm, strangely similar to me, except I have an Aspira for winter, not the claw.
For BnB and his comments on wearing a smock in spring or autumn in the hills; too hot, go for a baslayer with pertex windproof over the top, if there is dampness, use the Quito (my paramo knowledge is a wee bit out of date, as I have stuff and don't need to replace it...)
Seriously though, if you want to try the softshell you go back to again, again and again, try a montane featherlite smock. It's the size of an apple and weighs less, use it over t-shirts for easy to carry layer for belaying at the top of a crag, or to keep the snow off for the walk in, use it over a light fleece for instant buffalo. It's amazing, I have 3 in various stages of wear as I use them so much. The most used bit of kit I have. And it costs £40, did I say it weighs less than everything else??
In reply to Sharp:
Hence why the paramo looks wet, the inside is dry, the outside has all the water being evaporated. I put mine over a wet fleece once and within 45 mins the fleece was dry. You do have to get the right paramo to avoid the sweat, if I didn't have the Aspira already, I don't think I'd get it again as it's too warm for all year round use.
A hardshell is just a plastic bag, save the cash and make one from rubble bags, (or bubble wrap, I've always wanted a bubble wrap belay jacket...) balancing the layers under a hardshell is too difficult to avoid sweat, especially if you are going up and down 700m, better to have something that can deal better with the sweat.
> Paramo does seem to work, it has so many advocates, but whenever you get back from being out in the rain with someone wearing it their kit looks saturated and soggy and you do quite often see people drenched in sweat wearing one. I get the theory that it pumps it away from your skin
Hence why the paramo looks wet, the inside is dry, the outside has all the water being evaporated. I put mine over a wet fleece once and within 45 mins the fleece was dry. You do have to get the right paramo to avoid the sweat, if I didn't have the Aspira already, I don't think I'd get it again as it's too warm for all year round use.
> but I'd rather stay dry to start with and for scottish winter I think 95% of the time the hard shell is perfect.
A hardshell is just a plastic bag, save the cash and make one from rubble bags, (or bubble wrap, I've always wanted a bubble wrap belay jacket...) balancing the layers under a hardshell is too difficult to avoid sweat, especially if you are going up and down 700m, better to have something that can deal better with the sweat.
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In reply to PPP:
Get a buffalo! Top salopettes and hood are bombproof. I also carry a montane pile pertex jacket as a belay jacket.
A lot of people say its too hot.
I wear a thin thermal vest on the walk in and a rab alpine lite if its windy. These come off and buffalo goes on next to the skin, toasty.
I Seldom carry a waterproof. If you need one its too wet to ice climb, and anyway buffalo is ok in the rain. Water gets in but you still stay warm.
I often come off the hill and people say how cold its been, and I have never even noticed.
Needlesports swear by them.
Get a buffalo! Top salopettes and hood are bombproof. I also carry a montane pile pertex jacket as a belay jacket.
A lot of people say its too hot.
I wear a thin thermal vest on the walk in and a rab alpine lite if its windy. These come off and buffalo goes on next to the skin, toasty.
I Seldom carry a waterproof. If you need one its too wet to ice climb, and anyway buffalo is ok in the rain. Water gets in but you still stay warm.
I often come off the hill and people say how cold its been, and I have never even noticed.
Needlesports swear by them.
1
In reply to PPP:
Thanks guys for the input! Did not expect so much information out of quite uninteresting question . From shopping session today, I realised that it's not only fit that matters... it's also a colour! I hate to admit, but I found Mountain Equipment Mission jacket to be quite nice fitting (slightly too snug hood for winter, I thought). However, the colour Tiso had was dark grey was just not so pleasing.
I just ordered Rab Raptor from Tiso (can't beat the £81 price tag). I tried Rab Exodus today, which seems to be fairly similar. Raptor should be slighty lighter (from what I could gather), but will allow layering a little bit more. I hope!
Thanks guys for the input! Did not expect so much information out of quite uninteresting question . From shopping session today, I realised that it's not only fit that matters... it's also a colour! I hate to admit, but I found Mountain Equipment Mission jacket to be quite nice fitting (slightly too snug hood for winter, I thought). However, the colour Tiso had was dark grey was just not so pleasing.
I just ordered Rab Raptor from Tiso (can't beat the £81 price tag). I tried Rab Exodus today, which seems to be fairly similar. Raptor should be slighty lighter (from what I could gather), but will allow layering a little bit more. I hope!
In reply to PPP:
Highly wind resistant (small amount of air permeability good for breathability)
Fast wicking
Fast drying
Warm when wet
Small amount of insulation to complement base and mid layers
Lightweight and compact
Neck , waist, cuffs adjustable to be sealed for bad weather and opened as it eases
Highly breathable and definitely not waterproof
Comfortable against skin or other layers.
Highly wind resistant (small amount of air permeability good for breathability)
Fast wicking
Fast drying
Warm when wet
Small amount of insulation to complement base and mid layers
Lightweight and compact
Neck , waist, cuffs adjustable to be sealed for bad weather and opened as it eases
Highly breathable and definitely not waterproof
Comfortable against skin or other layers.
1
In reply to PPP:
Classic UKC gear thread.
OP asks genuine question about gear. Regulars offer highly technical but deeply personal and opposing viewpoints. OP says thank you and buys the one on special offer.
I guess we should be thankful no one mentioned Decathlon.
Classic UKC gear thread.
OP asks genuine question about gear. Regulars offer highly technical but deeply personal and opposing viewpoints. OP says thank you and buys the one on special offer.
I guess we should be thankful no one mentioned Decathlon.
5
In reply to Root1:
Im seriously tempted (again) to try a Buffalo for winter! Had a try on in a shop, and was a bit peeved at the lack of mobility at the shoulders (Spec 6) , with hands up high? The Montane seemed better articulated/tailored, but really really Hot indoors! Do you find you cool down rapidly when you stop? They both seem really 'cheap' if you compare to the overpriced. designer, layering system? ;~)
Im seriously tempted (again) to try a Buffalo for winter! Had a try on in a shop, and was a bit peeved at the lack of mobility at the shoulders (Spec 6) , with hands up high? The Montane seemed better articulated/tailored, but really really Hot indoors! Do you find you cool down rapidly when you stop? They both seem really 'cheap' if you compare to the overpriced. designer, layering system? ;~)
In reply to BnB:
I see where you are coming from. However, I did some of my own research, but I wasn't sure I was not missing something.
Rab Raptor seemed like a jacket for good value. If you pay 50% more (given on RRP prices, checked deals on other websites too), you would remotely get anything better. ME Vulcan seemed quite nice in the shop, but I assumed it wouldn't be worth paying twice more. My mate had Rab Exodus last winter and seemed pretty happy about it.
Sadly, as a self sufficient student, I cannot afford Patagucci or Arc'teryx jackets just now. Raptor is definitely going to be an improvement than the current jacket with broken bungee cord, slightly too short sleeves and terrible hood design, as well as outdated fabric with a membrane.
I see where you are coming from. However, I did some of my own research, but I wasn't sure I was not missing something.
Rab Raptor seemed like a jacket for good value. If you pay 50% more (given on RRP prices, checked deals on other websites too), you would remotely get anything better. ME Vulcan seemed quite nice in the shop, but I assumed it wouldn't be worth paying twice more. My mate had Rab Exodus last winter and seemed pretty happy about it.
Sadly, as a self sufficient student, I cannot afford Patagucci or Arc'teryx jackets just now. Raptor is definitely going to be an improvement than the current jacket with broken bungee cord, slightly too short sleeves and terrible hood design, as well as outdated fabric with a membrane.
1
In reply to PPP:
The last few years I've been using a Quechua softshell from Decathlon which has been great although not overly warm. Last season in Scotland I seemed to spend a few too many days climbing in my belay jacket but for more pleasant days and Alpine mountaineering it is excellent.
In the spring I bought a RAB Exodus and although it fits great and looks really good, I found it not any warmer than the Quechua. Last month I therefore decided to spend a bit more money and bought a RAB Baltoro Guide and so far wearing it in out and about including walking in the Brecon Beacons in typical November weather I have been really, really impressed.
My current thoughts are that it should be excellent for Scottish Winter. I'd say it was bulky rather than heavy and don't see that as a particular issue.
PS If any wants to buy a RAB Exodus, size Small in bright Blue, in VG condition for £65 posted, drop me an email.
The last few years I've been using a Quechua softshell from Decathlon which has been great although not overly warm. Last season in Scotland I seemed to spend a few too many days climbing in my belay jacket but for more pleasant days and Alpine mountaineering it is excellent.
In the spring I bought a RAB Exodus and although it fits great and looks really good, I found it not any warmer than the Quechua. Last month I therefore decided to spend a bit more money and bought a RAB Baltoro Guide and so far wearing it in out and about including walking in the Brecon Beacons in typical November weather I have been really, really impressed.
My current thoughts are that it should be excellent for Scottish Winter. I'd say it was bulky rather than heavy and don't see that as a particular issue.
PS If any wants to buy a RAB Exodus, size Small in bright Blue, in VG condition for £65 posted, drop me an email.
Post edited at 22:46
In reply to PPP:
Don't worry. The comment wasn't aimed at you. More in recognition of the minutiae that get us gear freaks excited. Your jacket looks good. And excellent value as you say.
Don't worry. The comment wasn't aimed at you. More in recognition of the minutiae that get us gear freaks excited. Your jacket looks good. And excellent value as you say.
In reply to jonnie3430:
Like I said, it's a marmite thing and I understand some people like it but you're being a bit disingenuous to GTX. I worked in a shop that sold paramo for 4 years so I do know how it works. The point I was trying to make is it gets wet, albeit the pump liner keeps it away from your skin but if you get back to the car with a sopping wet paramo you'll set off in the morning with it just as wet. Also you do sweat more in one because essentially you're wearing too many layers half the time, again I understand the liner pulls it out but my preference is to minimise sweating to start with. As I mentioned in my post if you sweat a lot consider paramo, if you generally dont' sweat much then do you have much to gain by wearing one?
A few years ago I was walking down from SCnL in really heavy rain, I was lazy and kept all my mid layers on and by the time I got back to the car I was roasting hot and felt like I was trapped inside a big wet bag of sweat. When I took my gtx off in the car expecting to be drenched all my mid layers were bone dry and there was just the usual ingress at the cuffs and neck. GTX is amaing technology, anyone whose spent 10 minutes in oil skins will tell you gtx isn't just rubble bags.
The other week working with a group climbing in the rain my colleague had a paramo on and I had my 5 year old unwashed, unloved gtx. The paramo had been keeping him dry all week so it didn't occur that it needed reproofing but that day the rain was heavier and it just poured through. granted once reproofed they work like new and will continue to do so until it's torn to shreds but they do need extra work and he's not the first person I've known to be caught out thinking it was proofed enough but actually for severe conditions it wasn't. Needless to stay the plastic bag kept me dry despite having spent quite a while in the foot well of my car and not being washed in over a year.
As I said paramo is great kit and lots of people like it but I prefer GTX hands down. If you sweat a lot consider paramo but there are limitations, if you work outside you'll need to proof it surprisingly regularly, it doesn't 100% cut out the wind, you'll sweat more than you need to and you will have to embrace that wet dog look (even if you're dry inside!).
Like I said, it's a marmite thing and I understand some people like it but you're being a bit disingenuous to GTX. I worked in a shop that sold paramo for 4 years so I do know how it works. The point I was trying to make is it gets wet, albeit the pump liner keeps it away from your skin but if you get back to the car with a sopping wet paramo you'll set off in the morning with it just as wet. Also you do sweat more in one because essentially you're wearing too many layers half the time, again I understand the liner pulls it out but my preference is to minimise sweating to start with. As I mentioned in my post if you sweat a lot consider paramo, if you generally dont' sweat much then do you have much to gain by wearing one?
A few years ago I was walking down from SCnL in really heavy rain, I was lazy and kept all my mid layers on and by the time I got back to the car I was roasting hot and felt like I was trapped inside a big wet bag of sweat. When I took my gtx off in the car expecting to be drenched all my mid layers were bone dry and there was just the usual ingress at the cuffs and neck. GTX is amaing technology, anyone whose spent 10 minutes in oil skins will tell you gtx isn't just rubble bags.
The other week working with a group climbing in the rain my colleague had a paramo on and I had my 5 year old unwashed, unloved gtx. The paramo had been keeping him dry all week so it didn't occur that it needed reproofing but that day the rain was heavier and it just poured through. granted once reproofed they work like new and will continue to do so until it's torn to shreds but they do need extra work and he's not the first person I've known to be caught out thinking it was proofed enough but actually for severe conditions it wasn't. Needless to stay the plastic bag kept me dry despite having spent quite a while in the foot well of my car and not being washed in over a year.
As I said paramo is great kit and lots of people like it but I prefer GTX hands down. If you sweat a lot consider paramo but there are limitations, if you work outside you'll need to proof it surprisingly regularly, it doesn't 100% cut out the wind, you'll sweat more than you need to and you will have to embrace that wet dog look (even if you're dry inside!).
In reply to PPP:
Well, back to square one. Tiso managed to mess up and cancelled the order 12 days after the purchase (the money will be refunded within 5 working days... not happy!). They promised a 20 pound voucher for customers whose orders were cancelled (seems like I wasn't the only one!) and the same discount as it was during the Black Friday. Except that I need the jacket before that.
Looking towards (again) Mountain Equipment Mission jacket. Argh!
Well, back to square one. Tiso managed to mess up and cancelled the order 12 days after the purchase (the money will be refunded within 5 working days... not happy!). They promised a 20 pound voucher for customers whose orders were cancelled (seems like I wasn't the only one!) and the same discount as it was during the Black Friday. Except that I need the jacket before that.
Looking towards (again) Mountain Equipment Mission jacket. Argh!
In reply to PPP:
Bergfreunde is selling the Vulcan for £110 in a nice colour, sell your Tiso voucher and get that instead! I presume its last seasons version or something but to be honest I can't tell the difference.
Out of curiosity how was the fit of the Vulcan? Im usually a size Small in ME stuff but is it sized to get a few layers underneath, say a baselayer and fleece? Main thing I wonder is if the cut is nice and long (so it wont pull out from my harness when climbing) and are the arms articulated (so it wont pull out from my harness when reaching up)?
I'm tempted to get one myself to replace both my knackered soft and hard shell.
Bergfreunde is selling the Vulcan for £110 in a nice colour, sell your Tiso voucher and get that instead! I presume its last seasons version or something but to be honest I can't tell the difference.
Out of curiosity how was the fit of the Vulcan? Im usually a size Small in ME stuff but is it sized to get a few layers underneath, say a baselayer and fleece? Main thing I wonder is if the cut is nice and long (so it wont pull out from my harness when climbing) and are the arms articulated (so it wont pull out from my harness when reaching up)?
I'm tempted to get one myself to replace both my knackered soft and hard shell.
1
In reply to CMcBain:
Thanks, that's a good shout. I dismissed Vulcan as it was a lot more than my budget (200 quid in Tiso). ME Mission is quite snug, I am usually medium and found it being quite close to the skin. However, I spent last 3 weeks eating and watching Netflix due to a rib fracture, so I might be a little bit on a bulkier side than usual .
However, ME Morpheus in Medium (for me) is a lot roomier and could fit at least a few bulkier layers and there is still plenty of space.
Thanks, that's a good shout. I dismissed Vulcan as it was a lot more than my budget (200 quid in Tiso). ME Mission is quite snug, I am usually medium and found it being quite close to the skin. However, I spent last 3 weeks eating and watching Netflix due to a rib fracture, so I might be a little bit on a bulkier side than usual .
However, ME Morpheus in Medium (for me) is a lot roomier and could fit at least a few bulkier layers and there is still plenty of space.
In reply to PPP:
Try googling "OutdoorGearLab best softshell jacket for men review". I'd include the link but my phone won't let me. Side by side comparison of 11 different and popular jackets for a range of features. Interesting stuff for gearheads. But note our climate is not the same!!
Try googling "OutdoorGearLab best softshell jacket for men review". I'd include the link but my phone won't let me. Side by side comparison of 11 different and popular jackets for a range of features. Interesting stuff for gearheads. But note our climate is not the same!!
1
In reply to CMcBain:
Thanks again. Received the Vulcan this morning. I can now see why it differs from my cheap soft shells. Proper hood (well, it's Mountain Equipment!) that works even with bigger Sirocco, plenty of pockets, good fit, durable zips (including 2-way front zip), etc, etc.. The lining material looks solid as well. Gore Windstopper, I hope, will perform no worse.
Fit wise, I can still fit a baselayer and two fleeces underneath at a push. Patagonia Nano Puff Vest and a fleece works better, but I am not expecting to wear that much as I have few thicker merino baselayers. I am usually medium by most manufacturers (Vulcan is medium, too). 40/42" chest.
Thanks again. Received the Vulcan this morning. I can now see why it differs from my cheap soft shells. Proper hood (well, it's Mountain Equipment!) that works even with bigger Sirocco, plenty of pockets, good fit, durable zips (including 2-way front zip), etc, etc.. The lining material looks solid as well. Gore Windstopper, I hope, will perform no worse.
Fit wise, I can still fit a baselayer and two fleeces underneath at a push. Patagonia Nano Puff Vest and a fleece works better, but I am not expecting to wear that much as I have few thicker merino baselayers. I am usually medium by most manufacturers (Vulcan is medium, too). 40/42" chest.
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