UKH

An enjoyable evening with the hang scales puts mine somewhere in between 11kg and 15kg but it's difficult as what to take varies so much. 15kg includes the below (everything), splitting the gear with someone else takes it to about 12/13kg and then a rack specific to ice or mixed with the weight shared between two is about 11/12kg.

fullish rock rack - 3 crabs worth of nuts (bout 1.5 sets plus micros and a few randoms), few hexes, few cams, 10 extenders, belay plate, slings ,few spare crabs etc.
Winter specific - 10 screws, two warthogs, two bull dogs, few pegs
60m skinny half, helmet, harness, crampons, axes
wproof jacket, midlayer and belay jacket
small first aid kit, survival bag, head torch
sandwiches, small bottle of water and mars bar
guidebook

What's yours weigh?

In reply to Sharp:

I don't know what mine weighs but that's a hell of a rack you carry.
What winter routes need three krabs worth of nuts AND ten screws, two warthogs etc.
I don't think I've ever placed 10 screws on a route in the UK and if I did it wouldn't need a fraction of that rock gear.
Likewise 10 extenders AND spare krabs? I've never heard of anyone carrying micros in winter either but at least they don't weigh much.

A typical rack for me would be 1 set of wires (size 1 to 10),
3 hexes (in the next sizes up from a rock 10) OR three cams (depending upon which rock type I'm climbing on or how iced up cracks are likely to be) but never both
2 wart hogs (unless its a pure ice route in which case non)
8 extenders
Possibly 2 or 3 pegs depending on the rock or how hard the route is (for me)
4 slings
Anything from 0 to 8 screws depending on the route but as the number of screws goes up the amount of other stuff goes down.

In reply to Sharp:

Well it's usually got a sleeping bag, whisky, coal or tent, sleeping mat, stove, fuel and food in it, so quite a lot!

In reply to pec:

I've never taken all that on a winter route, perhaps I wasn't clear that's the weight of everything but it changes depending on the route and conditions - hence the 11-15kg weight variation.

A couple of spare snap links and a screw gate for the belay isn't too bad no? Saves you wasting all your extenders on attaching yourself to the belay and gives you something to clip stray gear or your rucksack onto the belay. 1.5 set of nuts plus micros isn't excessive imo, 1.5 sets over two crabs then a set of micros and small offsets on the other. Like you say they dont weigh much and I've placed micros a couple of times.

In reply to Sharp:

too much!

In reply to Sharp:

About the same as two plums and an elephant's elbow? Pretty similar all year round.

In reply to Sharp:


Ok, fair enough, I've re read your OP and see what you mean.


Yes of course.


The total amount of rock gear still seems a lot, nuts, cams, hexes and pegs but perhaps you always just select some from that as I alluded to in my post?
Regarding the micros, the weight is tiny but given the length of fall you're likely to take in winter I can't see them being of any use even if placed perfectly. I think you'd be better saving your energy and pressing on.

In reply to Sharp:

no idea how much it weighs, but it weighs over 2kg less at the end of the day than the start, on account of the water i drink!

standard rack:

medium and large nuts plus corresponding offsets (3-11 in dmm walnut sizes)
DMM torque nuts 1-4 (probably the best pieces of winter gear!)
Bulldog and terrier
about 10 QDs range of sizes inc extenders
3-5 120/240mm slings
belay plate
2 phanton screwgates with prussics

i only carry screws if i intend to use them, and the number depends on the route

In reply to pec:

A great deal depends on your route choice but my typical gear for "let's go and see what's in nick" would be;

1/2 a set of nuts
1 largish hex
1 medium to large tri cam
4 sling draws
3 1.2m slings with snap link
1 2.4m sling with snap link
3 small to medium ice screws
1 warthog or bulldog
2 or 3 pegs

this season I am not going to take the pegs as in 8 or so years I have never used one in anger.

Davey

small bottle of water and mars bar guidebook

Ditch the Mars bar guidebook, they are all much the same.

In reply to Sharp:

Might want to check your scales, surprised that lot only came to 15kg! I say that because I've just got back into training carrying the same but only 3 screws, no warthogs and a 50m, 9mm half, and it still came to 15kg, with a light sack!
No way would I think of humping all that shit on a climb myself so would expect to offload 3kg at any rate, if I'm carrying the hardware I expect partner to carry ropes. Plus sacks don't get lighter as the day goes on, think of all that moisture your kits absorbed, bet it out ways the water you've drank!

In reply to Sharp:

Too much. Always... and it seems to get heavier throughout the day

About 1.5 - 2 sets of wires, 3/4 set of tri-cams (in pace of cams and hexes), 8-10 draws (1/2 of which are sling draws, guide plate, slings ,few spare crabs, prussiks etc.
Winter specific - upto 8 screws, cord and threader, two warthogs,s, few pegs (and/or a dead boy and shovel if I think a snow belay is needed).
1-2 60m half or triple ropes (route dependant), helmet, harness, crampons, axes
Hardshell, softshell and belay jacket
small first aid kit, survival bag or shelter, head torch, spare batteries
sandwiches, 1.5L camelback of water and lots of sugary snacks

Split between 2, probably comes in at ~15kg, between 3 it's closer to 10.

In reply to Sharp:

This thread is designed to get me to admit to having a spreadsheet with all my and my partners' gear and weights embedded within. Well I'm not going to admit it.

In reply to drmarten:

Not only should you admit it, you should share it with your weight obsessed fellow climbing geeks, at least we'll understand....... Assuming you've weighed everything and not just taken manufactures claimed weights otherwise your integrity in this hour able endeavour will be undermined.

In reply to drmarten:

I have a spreadsheet somewhere with the weight of all my kit for mountain marathons. It can make a huge difference shaving off a few grams, so I wanted to work out if i was carrying anything unnecessary or that I could find a lighter version of each item to take instead.

I haven't applied the same approach to winter climbing though. Instead I tend to go with the approach of this might be useful, I'll take it.

In reply to drmarten:


You weigh your partners before a climb?

In reply to Removed Userthread:

I can see what you're trying to do, I'm not admitting to anything.

In reply to Sharp:

axes
harness
belay device
2 ropes OR the below rack:
1/2 set of offset wires
2 tricams
3 torque nuts OR 3 cams
1 bulldog or warthog
8 slingdraws
2 long slings
0 - 8 screws (plus knife and tat if mostly ice)
small flask (drink 1.5-2 litres in the car first)
2 small "munch" lunch bags - 1 savoury: cheese & salami bits; 1 sweet: halva, marzipan, nuts, sweets
SOL survival bag
headtorch (carry in jacket to keep batteries warm, don't bother with spares)
belay bodywarmer or jacket (depending on cold)
shell mitts
lightweight waterproof

about 10-12kg

In reply to drmarten:

The most dense items appear to be those I use least (in a couple of cases never), dead men, pegs and turf pro. I groan inwardly every time those items make it on to the rack.

Wires, I seem to get by with a single standard rack 1-10 with some torque nuts to top the job up. Tricams are a great weight-saving alternative to standard cams.

Climbing as a three appears to be the best weight saver of all

In reply to Sharp:

This is what I'm pretty sure me and my partner took out with us this year. The caveat being we are punters that go by the moto " If you have the energy to hang around and place it, then just go ahead and lace it" so it's way to much gear for what we do......

Rack.
2x sets of nuts (think we may have had offsets with us too Eeek)
Large sizes of wired hexes.
3x Cams mid sized
3/4x Wartogs
4 x Pegs
10-12x extenders
120x4 slings
240x2 slings
4-6 x screws
4 x screw gates
Bulldog
Terrier
3-4 x crabs
BOA x2
2x50m half ropes

Other.
Emergency shelter
first aid kit

Personal stuff.
Hardshell, midlayer, belay jacket, 2x head-torches +batteries, helmet, harness, food, 1L water, axes, crampons.

14-15KG maybe each.

In reply to Sharp:

If anyone is feeling particularly smug about the weight of their Scottish Winter pack, it's worth reading "Beyond The Mountain" by Steve House. His pack for his first attempt on the Rupal Face of Nanga Parbat contained gear and enough food and fuel for three days, split between 2. It weighed less than 11.5kg. When he soloed K7, his pack weighed less than 4kg.

Something for lightweight obsessives to aim for.

In reply

If you don't use something, you've carried, on three trips ditch it!
Ditch bulldog etc and pegs asap also large hex's
Prepare to be very cold

In reply to Sharp:

ditch guidebook by photocopying relevant pages and recce beforehand.

In reply to Sharp:

Get fitter.

In reply to Sharp:

I've kept a note book of what I've used on most winter climbing. On average it goes something like:-

3 or 4 slings + crabs
4 or 5 med/large hexes on medium loops + crabs - (I couldn't every imagine being able to find a crack not iced/snowed up to place any micros)
A few pegs
a prussik loop or two. +crabs
fig 8 = belay plate
If open snow slopes a deadman - useful for topping out anyway.

I'd only take 10 ice screws if I was doing a 200ft ice fall.

+ helmet/harness etc.,

Spare gear? down gillet, wear windproof + goretex in bag. Sandwich/flask a few miniture cigars. plastic survival bag. - and spare gloves being the essential spare.

Oh and don';t forget the rope.

In reply to Sharp:

Apart from the ice screws and the warthogs that's a light rack compared to some people I know!

In reply to petegunn:

Mountain tuck shop?

In reply to John Kelly:

Daft advice. If you didn't happen to use your headtorch on 3 trips would you ditch it? Compass? Map? If you considered it prudent to carry a bothy bag but failed to get benighted or have an accident in only three trips would you ditch it? Rock 7?


The greatest satisfaction in winter climbing is to welly a large hex deep into a crack when you are scared.

In reply to Sharp:

Always exactly the same. Too much.

In reply to Robert Durran:
You have point but the 3 trips rule is great starting point for sorting out what you actually need, maybe I should have called it a filter not a rule
Edit - I don't go downstairs without a rock 7

In reply to John Kelly:


I dusagree. It is too blunt an instrument. Each item should be considered on its merits. I think. I demonstrated that.

In reply to John Kelly:




I don't carry them as a matter of course but they're essential on some routes.

In reply to Robert Durran:

Empty rucksack, two piles of gear, first pile used on trips second pile not used on trips, rub chin, consider, choose, it's a useful decision making process, I was wrong to call it a rule

In reply to Sharp:

About 1.5 sets of nuts for typically for mixed (1 set in the smaller sizes)

All but the smallest hex, which never got used.

Cams and/or tricams, depending on conditions. Tend to leave the cams altogether if there's a decent hoar frost

Warthogs, bulldogs and pegs currently aren't a lot of good without a decent hammer on my axes. Last time a partner placed a peg I couldn't remove it! At Dover I carry 12 warthogs for what it's worth :-P

Around 12 runners of different lengths.

I personally preferred a slightly larger rack and more runners as the extra weight didn't bother me. Rope work and finding gear placements efficiently feel more critical in Scotland to me than how many runners I am carrying. I personally go quicker on difficult pitches with more runners in place but then it probably depends on how much headroom With respect to the difficulty of the route. For easier grades I could easily manage with less. Particularly if there was a lot of neve bashing.

In reply to French Erick:


Totally agree. Or take pics of the pages on your phone/camera. Can't understand why anyone carries a guidebook up and down a mountain!

In reply to Sharp:

Taking a set of tricams instead of cams and hexes is a huge weight saver, never mind the fact that they work in icy and/or slimy cracks. Also the most simple and elegant bits of pro ever designed. Oh, and they're cheap. Granted, a tad more skill required to place and remove though.

Down bags are great for backpacking. I used to use a synthetic bag and it would take up the entire sleeping bag compartment. A down bag in a compression sack will leave me room to put my bag, liner, pad, and pillow with room to spare. Switching to a down bag is the best decision you will make.

In reply to adamarchie:


Photocopy yes, but I've found the above to be a massive faff, and screens can be difficult to read in daylight

In reply to planetmarshall:

I quite like to laminate the photocopy for winter

In reply to adamarchie:


So that when you get to your route and find someone on it you can choose another, or when you find the buttress you intended to climb on is black but others aren't you have the option to follow the best conditions.

In reply to planetmarshall:


I've found my camera screen's pretty bright. Worked well for me even on the bright days last winter.

In reply to Sharp:


That's why I photograph the adjacent pages too

In reply to French Erick:


There is of course the another option for some areas

Many climbers aren't aware of it, but an amazing, ultralight selected climbs guidebook exists for Ben Nevis and Glencoe that only weighs 77g compared with 403g or 427g for the current SMC guides.

There is also one covering the Cairngorms and Creag Meaghaidh weighing only 52g.

For some reason they are now considered out of favour, but pretty much everyone was using them in the early 1970s...

In reply to iksander:

You're goosed mate, you've forgotten your crampons!!

In reply to Sharp:

Weighs about 5kg, fast and light not heavy and lumbering

In reply to Sharp:

15kilos before breakfast.....5 after

In reply to Sharp:

>How much does your winter sack weigh?

I wonder what Santa would answer.....

In reply to ChrisBrooke:

"My sack is heavy." - Borat