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Looking to invest in a decent down sleeping bag for this winter which will cope with a cold Scotish winter at high levels. Would be interested to hear from anyone who uses Mountain Equipment or Rab down sleeping bags. My budget will be around £300.
In reply to Gazza111:
Based on my experience with Rab bags and talking to friends who have them, I wish I'd bought the Pertex Endurance version.
I find my neutrino bag is excellent, but on longer trips and bivvying it gets damp quite easily. I believe the endurance ones might be better in this respect.
Based on my experience with Rab bags and talking to friends who have them, I wish I'd bought the Pertex Endurance version.
I find my neutrino bag is excellent, but on longer trips and bivvying it gets damp quite easily. I believe the endurance ones might be better in this respect.
In reply to Gazza111:
I've a Mint M.E iceline in Red good to -25 last years model
Barely seen any use these are £600 ,£200 it'll be on a premier post
With a set of Quarks end of the week
I've a Mint M.E iceline in Red good to -25 last years model
Barely seen any use these are £600 ,£200 it'll be on a premier post
With a set of Quarks end of the week
In reply to Gazza111:
Alpkit are currently offering pre-order on their new range of Alpine Dreams, the middle of which is the 900:
https://www.alpkit.com/products/alpinedream-900
Limit of -18, weighs under 1500g and under-budget at 240. Next model up is only 270
Alpkit are currently offering pre-order on their new range of Alpine Dreams, the middle of which is the 900:
https://www.alpkit.com/products/alpinedream-900
Limit of -18, weighs under 1500g and under-budget at 240. Next model up is only 270
In reply to Gazza111: My RAB Quantum 400 is now 14 years old and still going strong (slept out in it last night).
Used loads worldwide over the years, but following on from psaunders comment, I have always used both a silk liner and a lightweight RAB bivvy bag with it whenever I've used it in Winter in Scotland.
Not sure whether I would replace like for like or if I would go with a slightly warmer bag with a more water resistant cover...
Used loads worldwide over the years, but following on from psaunders comment, I have always used both a silk liner and a lightweight RAB bivvy bag with it whenever I've used it in Winter in Scotland.
Not sure whether I would replace like for like or if I would go with a slightly warmer bag with a more water resistant cover...
In reply to Gazza111:
Got a mail shot advertising this t other day, looks like a very good deal
http://www.rockrun.com/mammut-sphere-ul-winter?___SID=U
Got a mail shot advertising this t other day, looks like a very good deal
http://www.rockrun.com/mammut-sphere-ul-winter?___SID=U
In reply to Gazza111:
I think you'd have to go second hand to get a "decent" 4 season bag for that price. I'd define "decent" as using high fill power down of at least a 90/10 ratio and with down proof material in an efficient baffle design. Something like the ME Glacier 750 is £420 http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/glacier-750 The equivalent Rab sleeping bag is £520
Have you looked at Cumulus bags? http://sleepingbags-cumulus.eu/uk/categories/sleeping-bags/teneqa-850-10495... is 360 Euros so about £270 I've one of their quilts that I use to augment my summer bag and it's pretty decent quality.
I think you'd have to go second hand to get a "decent" 4 season bag for that price. I'd define "decent" as using high fill power down of at least a 90/10 ratio and with down proof material in an efficient baffle design. Something like the ME Glacier 750 is £420 http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/glacier-750 The equivalent Rab sleeping bag is £520
Have you looked at Cumulus bags? http://sleepingbags-cumulus.eu/uk/categories/sleeping-bags/teneqa-850-10495... is 360 Euros so about £270 I've one of their quilts that I use to augment my summer bag and it's pretty decent quality.
In reply to Gazza111:
Maybe go for a two bag system? Something like a ME Starlight 1 XL over a 3 season down bag?
Maybe go for a two bag system? Something like a ME Starlight 1 XL over a 3 season down bag?
In reply to Gazza111:
TBH I haven't got a clue why people are recommending 900g or even 750g down bags for Scotland.
Especially with a modern 4 season mat (R>5, e.g. XTherm or Downmat UL7) they are likely to be overkill for all but the very coldest of sleepers and it would be stupidly shortsighted to spend £300+ on a top sleeping bag and then skimp and not pair it with one of the latest generation mats.
As previously mentioned, I've used a 400g bag for years although I can see why a some might prefer a 500-600g version.
TBH I haven't got a clue why people are recommending 900g or even 750g down bags for Scotland.
Especially with a modern 4 season mat (R>5, e.g. XTherm or Downmat UL7) they are likely to be overkill for all but the very coldest of sleepers and it would be stupidly shortsighted to spend £300+ on a top sleeping bag and then skimp and not pair it with one of the latest generation mats.
As previously mentioned, I've used a 400g bag for years although I can see why a some might prefer a 500-600g version.
Post edited at 14:54
In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Re-reading my last post it appears that I'm recommending the Rab/ME/Cumulus whereas I meant to indicate that those bags met the OP's original criteria (apart from price).
Part of the problem is that "Scottish Winter" covers a wide variety of conditions: I've been in a bothy and been comfortable with a 400g fill sleeping bag but I've also been in one when a 1000g fill bag was only just enough. If I was camping/bivvying out high then I'd be looking towards the higher end of that range. YMMV of course.
Re-reading my last post it appears that I'm recommending the Rab/ME/Cumulus whereas I meant to indicate that those bags met the OP's original criteria (apart from price).
Part of the problem is that "Scottish Winter" covers a wide variety of conditions: I've been in a bothy and been comfortable with a 400g fill sleeping bag but I've also been in one when a 1000g fill bag was only just enough. If I was camping/bivvying out high then I'd be looking towards the higher end of that range. YMMV of course.
In reply to Bob:
Likewise, it's a long old night if you re cold or even just not that warm , when it gets dark about half four . I know some people like discomfort , but not me , warm and cosy all the way .
Likewise, it's a long old night if you re cold or even just not that warm , when it gets dark about half four . I know some people like discomfort , but not me , warm and cosy all the way .
In reply to Gazza111:
u have a summit 900 from rab and it's very good as was the mountain equipment ice line I used previously. I also have a mac pack one which is warmer but has a bit more restricted . feet probably not a coincidence.
look for a deal
u have a summit 900 from rab and it's very good as was the mountain equipment ice line I used previously. I also have a mac pack one which is warmer but has a bit more restricted . feet probably not a coincidence.
look for a deal
In reply to Gazza111:
Id seriously consider a double bag system - and echo the comments on matts.
A good quality synthetic one season bag coupled with a three season down job gives a versatile, robust and reasonably costed system. My PhD minim 300 and ajunijak kompakt set up cost about 300 quid, weights in at about 1500g, and is very warm.
Id seriously consider a double bag system - and echo the comments on matts.
A good quality synthetic one season bag coupled with a three season down job gives a versatile, robust and reasonably costed system. My PhD minim 300 and ajunijak kompakt set up cost about 300 quid, weights in at about 1500g, and is very warm.
2
In reply to Gazza111:
Ex-Engineer is right in that a good bag should be paired with a good mat for optimum warmth. Also for a long scottish night a bit of extra width and a shoulder baffle make a big difference to comfort, rather than a narrow alpine bag where you will just have to lie striaght all night.
I have a Rab Ladahka 1000 which is at least fifteen years old (Sheffield made), and is overkill for 99% of the time in scotland in winter (though my partner regularly uses hers if bivvying or camping), and the workmanship is spot on. I also have a Rab summit 300 (not really warm enough in winter and too narrow for a long winters night) which is five to ten years old (over-seas made) and the workmanship is absolutely crap, half the baffles aren't fully stitched in, and weren't from new. So if going for a new Rab (or any bag for that matter)check it over throughly in the shop.
Most of the time in Scottish winter I use a PhD with a 500g fill, and am absolutely fine, the bag itself and the feel of the down is top notch. I'll admit if its going to be below -8 degC I'll take the ladahka.
Remember that buying second hand is perfectly good option if the bag looks in good nick, just factor in it costs about £45 to get one professionally cleaned. There are a few good bags on ebay at the moment, though you have to take the risk on the fit. there is a Terra Nova Zeus a -30 DegC beast if you really sleep cold, and can stand carrying the weight. If thats what you're after most people will be searching/bidding on Rab, ME and the like as they won't associate Terra Nova with quality bags, but the specs look high quality. So you may not face any bidding competition. Note I have no connection to any of the bags for sale.
Ex-Engineer is right in that a good bag should be paired with a good mat for optimum warmth. Also for a long scottish night a bit of extra width and a shoulder baffle make a big difference to comfort, rather than a narrow alpine bag where you will just have to lie striaght all night.
I have a Rab Ladahka 1000 which is at least fifteen years old (Sheffield made), and is overkill for 99% of the time in scotland in winter (though my partner regularly uses hers if bivvying or camping), and the workmanship is spot on. I also have a Rab summit 300 (not really warm enough in winter and too narrow for a long winters night) which is five to ten years old (over-seas made) and the workmanship is absolutely crap, half the baffles aren't fully stitched in, and weren't from new. So if going for a new Rab (or any bag for that matter)check it over throughly in the shop.
Most of the time in Scottish winter I use a PhD with a 500g fill, and am absolutely fine, the bag itself and the feel of the down is top notch. I'll admit if its going to be below -8 degC I'll take the ladahka.
Remember that buying second hand is perfectly good option if the bag looks in good nick, just factor in it costs about £45 to get one professionally cleaned. There are a few good bags on ebay at the moment, though you have to take the risk on the fit. there is a Terra Nova Zeus a -30 DegC beast if you really sleep cold, and can stand carrying the weight. If thats what you're after most people will be searching/bidding on Rab, ME and the like as they won't associate Terra Nova with quality bags, but the specs look high quality. So you may not face any bidding competition. Note I have no connection to any of the bags for sale.
Post edited at 21:41
In reply to iksander:
You know, stupid of me, I have both my traveller light bag for summer cycle touring, and a down bag that sometimes is not as warm as I would like on a winter outing. I have of course a insulating Mat to lie on, but I have never tried the 2 bags together, I usually just pug on more clothes.
I will give the 2 bags a go this winter.
> Maybe go for a two bag system? Something like a ME Starlight 1 XL over a 3 season down bag?
You know, stupid of me, I have both my traveller light bag for summer cycle touring, and a down bag that sometimes is not as warm as I would like on a winter outing. I have of course a insulating Mat to lie on, but I have never tried the 2 bags together, I usually just pug on more clothes.
I will give the 2 bags a go this winter.
In reply to Jim C:
If you do that then make sure that the bags are suitably sized so one doesn't get compressed by the other thus negating its insulating benefits. One needs to be a "snug" fit and the other loose. In your case I'd consider having the summer bag inside the down one as the down bag is likely to be larger volume when you are in it.
If you do that then make sure that the bags are suitably sized so one doesn't get compressed by the other thus negating its insulating benefits. One needs to be a "snug" fit and the other loose. In your case I'd consider having the summer bag inside the down one as the down bag is likely to be larger volume when you are in it.
In reply to Bob:
Part of the reason for suggesting a thin large fitting synthetic bag over your down bag is to provide a moisture buffer to keep the down bag dry, doesn't work the other way around...
Part of the reason for suggesting a thin large fitting synthetic bag over your down bag is to provide a moisture buffer to keep the down bag dry, doesn't work the other way around...
In reply to iksander:
Many thanks for all your advice I'm thinking at buying a Mountain Equipment Xero 550 Down Sleeping Bag. I have just missed out, this was on offer for £200 in Cotswold Outdoors.
I looking at sleeping on the summit of Ben Nevis making my way via the Carn Mor Dearg Arete. So this is my reason for wanting to invest in decent down sleeping bag. I like this idea of a using a double system. But the only down side of this is weight a bulk. Fine if your static in a camp site next to the car and don't need to carry everything on your back.
I have been watching some of the down bags on Ebay second hand. Mountain Equipment and Rab, but people suffer from bidding madness and they go for a crazy prices. Seems the better option is to look for a deal for end of line model?
Cheers
Many thanks for all your advice I'm thinking at buying a Mountain Equipment Xero 550 Down Sleeping Bag. I have just missed out, this was on offer for £200 in Cotswold Outdoors.
I looking at sleeping on the summit of Ben Nevis making my way via the Carn Mor Dearg Arete. So this is my reason for wanting to invest in decent down sleeping bag. I like this idea of a using a double system. But the only down side of this is weight a bulk. Fine if your static in a camp site next to the car and don't need to carry everything on your back.
I have been watching some of the down bags on Ebay second hand. Mountain Equipment and Rab, but people suffer from bidding madness and they go for a crazy prices. Seems the better option is to look for a deal for end of line model?
Cheers
In reply to Gazza111:
Funny I did that very thing 2 weeks ago
Solo'd up Tower then round the Cmd and had a great Bivi on the 2nd top, clear still night
Observed 3 satellites and 4 shooting stars in just over an hour! I used a Xero 550 myself brilliant bag but I wouldnt recommend it for Winter unless ur double bagging! it would maybe scrape by if you've a good mat bivi bag/tent and you sleep warm, otherwise think along the lines of the M.e Lightline Sl or Snowline Sl
Funny I did that very thing 2 weeks ago
Solo'd up Tower then round the Cmd and had a great Bivi on the 2nd top, clear still night
Observed 3 satellites and 4 shooting stars in just over an hour! I used a Xero 550 myself brilliant bag but I wouldnt recommend it for Winter unless ur double bagging! it would maybe scrape by if you've a good mat bivi bag/tent and you sleep warm, otherwise think along the lines of the M.e Lightline Sl or Snowline Sl
In reply to Gazza111:
For three season use I have a Rab Summit Alpine 400, but it wasn't warm enough for me on winter treks. I considered buying a new down bag for the winter but decided I could't justify the expense for so little use, so in the end I bought a Rab Module down top bag, which fitted perfectly inside the Summit bag. On the two trips Ive been on since I have been toasty warm. It packs down to nothing much. I'd not seen any around for a while, but a quick search show that Snow+Rock have them on sale at £69! bargain.
It means now I have a lightweight summer bag, a three season bag, and then combining them I have my winter trek bag. Good - especially as I love the Rab Summit Alpine bag.
For three season use I have a Rab Summit Alpine 400, but it wasn't warm enough for me on winter treks. I considered buying a new down bag for the winter but decided I could't justify the expense for so little use, so in the end I bought a Rab Module down top bag, which fitted perfectly inside the Summit bag. On the two trips Ive been on since I have been toasty warm. It packs down to nothing much. I'd not seen any around for a while, but a quick search show that Snow+Rock have them on sale at £69! bargain.
It means now I have a lightweight summer bag, a three season bag, and then combining them I have my winter trek bag. Good - especially as I love the Rab Summit Alpine bag.
In reply to Gazza111:
I got a Rab Ascent 700 last year, and have been really pleased with it. Think I paid around £175 for it. The coldest it's been when I've used it is -3/-4, but it kept me very toasty (and I'm a person who runs very cold).
I got a Rab Ascent 700 last year, and have been really pleased with it. Think I paid around £175 for it. The coldest it's been when I've used it is -3/-4, but it kept me very toasty (and I'm a person who runs very cold).
In reply to katherinec85:
I managed to get the ascent 900 a month or 2 ago for £150 by price matching ultimate outdoors price with go outdoors. Not used it yet but seems very nice.
I managed to get the ascent 900 a month or 2 ago for £150 by price matching ultimate outdoors price with go outdoors. Not used it yet but seems very nice.
In reply to Gazza111:
My 2p worth- although there are some hardy souls on here who seem content with a 400g bag I would get a 5 season bag if you are wild camping in a Scottish winter (8-900g+). It is good to know that, at some point during the day, you are going to be warm and cosy- it's really tiring having to expend energy keeping warm when you're supposed to be resting.
My preference for winter is a 5 season karrimat- indestructible- which these fancy mattresses aren't.
And bide your time- there are always absolute bargains out there if you wait. Look at Gumtree, preloved, on here (obviously) as well as ebay. I saw a rab 900 expedition on gumtree t'other day for £100 (beware scammers though- face to face purchases only on gumtree).
My 2p worth- although there are some hardy souls on here who seem content with a 400g bag I would get a 5 season bag if you are wild camping in a Scottish winter (8-900g+). It is good to know that, at some point during the day, you are going to be warm and cosy- it's really tiring having to expend energy keeping warm when you're supposed to be resting.
My preference for winter is a 5 season karrimat- indestructible- which these fancy mattresses aren't.
And bide your time- there are always absolute bargains out there if you wait. Look at Gumtree, preloved, on here (obviously) as well as ebay. I saw a rab 900 expedition on gumtree t'other day for £100 (beware scammers though- face to face purchases only on gumtree).
Post edited at 07:22
In reply to Gazza111:
I've a ME Snowline and it's excellent. Good quality workmanship and down seems to be lasting well. Its more warmth than I need 99% of the time, but when I was looking for a new winter bag a couple of years ago it was on offer as a special (wrong grade of down used to stuff it). Same weight, but prob a degree or 2 lower rated (still c.-20 I think).
Highly recommend it If you can find one cheap!
My wife has a RAB quantum 600 which is now about 10yrs old and still in really good nick and down is still lofting well - definitely a good sign, and would give me some confidence in Rab bags - though like Scraggygoat above says, this was bought before they shifted manufacture east and all the problems they had with quality afterwards.
For year round bothying and 3 season camping I use a phd minims 300. Light and very warm (0 degree rated). Never yet been cold in it - but it is a narrow fit, I only just fit it really!
I used to have an Alpkit bag (alpdream 700 I think) - good budget option, but I found after 2 or 3 seasons the down was seriously degraded (went from overflowing storage bag, to only 3/4 filling it). It saw a lot of use, but disappointing longevity. My conclusion was that with down, you get what you pay for. Even after having it washed / revitalised it quickly degraded. Personally, unless I was skint and had no other option, I'd give Alpkit bags a miss now and buy from a company that uses a better quality of down.
Cheers!
Stu
I've a ME Snowline and it's excellent. Good quality workmanship and down seems to be lasting well. Its more warmth than I need 99% of the time, but when I was looking for a new winter bag a couple of years ago it was on offer as a special (wrong grade of down used to stuff it). Same weight, but prob a degree or 2 lower rated (still c.-20 I think).
Highly recommend it If you can find one cheap!
My wife has a RAB quantum 600 which is now about 10yrs old and still in really good nick and down is still lofting well - definitely a good sign, and would give me some confidence in Rab bags - though like Scraggygoat above says, this was bought before they shifted manufacture east and all the problems they had with quality afterwards.
For year round bothying and 3 season camping I use a phd minims 300. Light and very warm (0 degree rated). Never yet been cold in it - but it is a narrow fit, I only just fit it really!
I used to have an Alpkit bag (alpdream 700 I think) - good budget option, but I found after 2 or 3 seasons the down was seriously degraded (went from overflowing storage bag, to only 3/4 filling it). It saw a lot of use, but disappointing longevity. My conclusion was that with down, you get what you pay for. Even after having it washed / revitalised it quickly degraded. Personally, unless I was skint and had no other option, I'd give Alpkit bags a miss now and buy from a company that uses a better quality of down.
Cheers!
Stu
In reply to Siward:
Of course the counter argument is that if you had a more insulating mat you might be as warm in the thinner bag, and maybe you prefer the extra fill because you are losing much more heat through your mat. I couldn't find an R-value for the Karrimat but I would guess the Neoair X-therm (US R-value 5.7) is probably about 3 times as insulating, and you lose significantly more heat into the ground than to the air (I have seen claims of up to three times as much). A solution for robustness without excess weight might be a very thin closed-cell mat, an X-therm or similar, and a lighter sleeping bag (but warm enough you wouldn't die with only the thin mat if the X-therm broke and you couldn't repair it). The X-therm is also crazy crazy comfortable...
Something like this would only weighs 80g or so and probably provides minimal insulation but would protect an air matress:
http://gossamergear.com/thinlight-insulation-pads.html
> My 2p worth- although there are some hardy souls on here who seem content with a 400g bag I would get a 5 season bag if you are wild camping in a Scottish winter (8-900g+). It is good to know that, at some point during the day, you are going to be warm and cosy- it's really tiring having to expend energy keeping warm when you're supposed to be resting.
> My preference for winter is a 5 season karrimat- indestructible- which these fancy mattresses aren't.
Of course the counter argument is that if you had a more insulating mat you might be as warm in the thinner bag, and maybe you prefer the extra fill because you are losing much more heat through your mat. I couldn't find an R-value for the Karrimat but I would guess the Neoair X-therm (US R-value 5.7) is probably about 3 times as insulating, and you lose significantly more heat into the ground than to the air (I have seen claims of up to three times as much). A solution for robustness without excess weight might be a very thin closed-cell mat, an X-therm or similar, and a lighter sleeping bag (but warm enough you wouldn't die with only the thin mat if the X-therm broke and you couldn't repair it). The X-therm is also crazy crazy comfortable...
Something like this would only weighs 80g or so and probably provides minimal insulation but would protect an air matress:
http://gossamergear.com/thinlight-insulation-pads.html
Post edited at 10:02
In reply to Siward:
I agree mostly there - I think a few 100 extra grams of insulation is worth the carry if it means a warm / tolerable night. Light is only right if you have a system that works for you IMO, and can be utterly miserable otherwise! I know my system works for me, but also I know one guy who carries a -35 rated bag for bothy trips where the rest of us are using 0 rated (or there about) as he complains of being freezing in anything else. Shows that what works for one doesn't work for everyone.
Karrimat is pretty indestructible, but I've only once had a puncture on my thermarest in years of use so have abandoned the Karrimat in it's favour. Even with a puncture kit it's lighter, warmer and smaller. Each to their own system though, so long as it works....
Cheers,
Stuart
I agree mostly there - I think a few 100 extra grams of insulation is worth the carry if it means a warm / tolerable night. Light is only right if you have a system that works for you IMO, and can be utterly miserable otherwise! I know my system works for me, but also I know one guy who carries a -35 rated bag for bothy trips where the rest of us are using 0 rated (or there about) as he complains of being freezing in anything else. Shows that what works for one doesn't work for everyone.
Karrimat is pretty indestructible, but I've only once had a puncture on my thermarest in years of use so have abandoned the Karrimat in it's favour. Even with a puncture kit it's lighter, warmer and smaller. Each to their own system though, so long as it works....
Cheers,
Stuart
In reply to StuDoig:
I haven't (yet) come across a sleeping mat that is both compact and effective for winter bivvies. Thermarests are good and comfortable, especially for ageing bones , but they certainly aren't compact. The Neo-air Xtherm looks promising BTW - http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Sleeping-Pad-Reviews
For alpine climbing I used three sections of Karrimat slipped in to the sleeve of my rucksack, only weighed about 100g, served as padding when carrying the sack but was pretty narrow to sleep on so if you rolled around in your sleep you'd end up off the pads and lying straight on the ground. I used the same system on mountain marathons.
I haven't (yet) come across a sleeping mat that is both compact and effective for winter bivvies. Thermarests are good and comfortable, especially for ageing bones , but they certainly aren't compact. The Neo-air Xtherm looks promising BTW - http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Sleeping-Pad-Reviews
For alpine climbing I used three sections of Karrimat slipped in to the sleeve of my rucksack, only weighed about 100g, served as padding when carrying the sack but was pretty narrow to sleep on so if you rolled around in your sleep you'd end up off the pads and lying straight on the ground. I used the same system on mountain marathons.
In reply to Bob:
Haha, funnily enough that's actually the pad I use! It is good, but squeaks a bit when you move. Doesn't worry me, but drives my wife nuts when bothying etc! Pump sack thing they supply with it is a waste of time though.
I tend to use it in the alps as well. Definitely not as compact as a converted back pad, but I do rate the comfort! My alpine stuff tends to be easy, or Bivi at the base though so can get away with a wee bit extra weight as it either won't be with me on the climb, or the climb is easy enough that it doesn't really handicap me. Doing something harder, or really long I might reconsider however and go back to sliced up karrimat for it....
Cheers,
Stu
> I haven't (yet) come across a sleeping mat that is both compact and effective for winter bivvies. Thermarests are good and comfortable, especially for ageing bones , but they certainly aren't compact. The Neo-air Xtherm looks promising BTW - http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Sleeping-Pad-Reviews
Haha, funnily enough that's actually the pad I use! It is good, but squeaks a bit when you move. Doesn't worry me, but drives my wife nuts when bothying etc! Pump sack thing they supply with it is a waste of time though.
I tend to use it in the alps as well. Definitely not as compact as a converted back pad, but I do rate the comfort! My alpine stuff tends to be easy, or Bivi at the base though so can get away with a wee bit extra weight as it either won't be with me on the climb, or the climb is easy enough that it doesn't really handicap me. Doing something harder, or really long I might reconsider however and go back to sliced up karrimat for it....
Cheers,
Stu
1
In reply to StuDoig:
Just Googling around (as you do) and there's a UKC review http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=5064 that mentions the "crisp packet" effect Not cheap either!
Just Googling around (as you do) and there's a UKC review http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=5064 that mentions the "crisp packet" effect Not cheap either!
In reply to StuDoig:
I actually prefer to blow it up with the pump sack even when it isn't cold; once you get the hang of it (and don't worry too much about filling the pump sack with air, its very easy to get it half full) it works OK. I also don't find the 'crisp packet' thing annoying at all, probably because you have a sleeping bag on top of it (and it really isn't that noisy).
Not tried it in properly cold conditions though. I bought it for the warmth and have failed to use it for that but love it for the weight and even more for the comfort (I am a side sleeper so need to avoid 'bottoming out').
> Haha, funnily enough that's actually the pad I use! It is good, but squeaks a bit when you move. Doesn't worry me, but drives my wife nuts when bothying etc! Pump sack thing they supply with it is a waste of time though.
I actually prefer to blow it up with the pump sack even when it isn't cold; once you get the hang of it (and don't worry too much about filling the pump sack with air, its very easy to get it half full) it works OK. I also don't find the 'crisp packet' thing annoying at all, probably because you have a sleeping bag on top of it (and it really isn't that noisy).
Not tried it in properly cold conditions though. I bought it for the warmth and have failed to use it for that but love it for the weight and even more for the comfort (I am a side sleeper so need to avoid 'bottoming out').
In reply to andrewmcleod:
Aye, the crips packet effect annoys other people rather than me (nicely tucked up and oblivious to it inside my bag). Definitely nice and warm. I just don't have the patience to use the sack pump, I used it for a while, but eventually gave up on it. A mate has an exped mat that has a fantastic pump sack with it - basic 1 way valves to stop deflation between fills and works as a proper bellows pump. Really efficient, insignificant difference in weight and soooo much faster / easier.
Anyway, definitely a comfortably and warm mat!
Stu
Aye, the crips packet effect annoys other people rather than me (nicely tucked up and oblivious to it inside my bag). Definitely nice and warm. I just don't have the patience to use the sack pump, I used it for a while, but eventually gave up on it. A mate has an exped mat that has a fantastic pump sack with it - basic 1 way valves to stop deflation between fills and works as a proper bellows pump. Really efficient, insignificant difference in weight and soooo much faster / easier.
Anyway, definitely a comfortably and warm mat!
Stu
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