Climbing with a pack

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 Rusty Grylls 03 Oct 2015
Iv just started multi pitching with a rucksack and want to get an alpine pack. Has any one got any advise on climbing with a pack? how many leters to go for? id need to fit a sleeping bag and bivi plus food, extra clothes and the climbing rack. would a 35 :45 be ok? also dose anyone find climbing with a pack obstructive?
cheers
2
 climber34neil 03 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

45l probably be OK if your careful with what you carry, do the waist strap up around the sack so it doesn't get in the way of your harness and choose a climbing specific sack with no side pockets etc to get in the way. You may find that one sack between you and your climbing partner may be sufficient so whoever is seconding could take the bag to make life easier for the leader.
 jimjimjim 03 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

If you're on a budget I found the decathlon sacks to be excellent
 PPP 03 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

If it sits too high, then you have problems with your head movement (helmet bumps into the rucksack). I find that annoying. If the rucksack is too low, then it obstructs the harness (gear loops, chalk, etc.).

I find Osprey Mutant 38 to be an okay if it's not full and terrible if it's full.
1
 alasdair19 03 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:
if your planning to bivvy in the alps in winter then look at the old style pod sacs black ice / thin ice.

however if you want an alpine pack for the summer then 30 to 45 and as light as possible.

"id need to fit a sleeping bag and bivi plus food, extra clothes and the climbing rack." your already carrying and sizing a bag for lots of shit you don't need to carry when your climbing
Post edited at 22:58
 Simon Yearsley 03 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

35-45 should be fine. My top tips would be: go for uncluttered design; think about whether you want/need a lid (saves loads of weight without one); try and get the lightest possible; go for a lighter weight waistband, rather than a heavy weight one, ideally removable and replaceable with a very skinny lightweight strap if you;re really weight conscious; always test out a pack in a shop before you buy one. If it's a good shop, they'll let you try one on, and if it's not filled already, then they should let you fill it with enough stuff to replicate the weight you're looking to carry, plus the point that PPP made re your helmet banging against the top/lip. Yes, do lots of research online, but then test and buy the thing in a shop (nb don't be a cheapskate and est it in a shop & then buy online!).

PS - think about what you can carry on the outside (eg rope, helmet), or on your harness (eg rack) so you can then reduce the overall capacity requirement
OP Rusty Grylls 04 Oct 2015
In reply to alasdair19:

well if im eating and sleep on route i will need that shit. thats why i intend to get a pack
1
 alasdair19 04 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

summer or winter? u don't need a bivvy and a sleeping bag, u don't carry spare clothes in the alps, you may have 500g of food for 2 days of climbing but not much more.as simon says a lot of kit is worn and doesn't need rucksack room.
2
 ScottTalbot 04 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

Does anyone ever pull their pack up after them, to save climbing with it on? Or is that generally more hassle than it's worth? Just curious as I've never climbed whilst doing an overnighter/multi day hike.
 alasdair19 04 Oct 2015
In reply to ScottTalbot:

if i try and lead a pitch can cant ill take my sack of and let my second bring it up as best he can it sucks.
 ben b 04 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford: R&R have the Blue Ice Yeti 30 in the sale, if interested.

http://www.rockrun.com/blue-ice-yeti-30l

b
 wbo 04 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford: if ITS less than plumb vertical then hauling is a real p.i.t.a. and on slabs a good way to get in a mess. On one day era 1 pack a team is a good idea.

<45l is what you need. You're splitting stuff on multi day routes, rope and helmet will be outside, in use. Make up a list of what you think you'll need, look at it, or post it up here.

 summo 04 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:
something to consider that's not mentioned is many rucksacks have gear loops on the waist band that are designed for this, with these the lids are often lower to avoid the helmet too. I have 2(neither over 40l), one with gear loops and another one which is a completely unpadded fabric band, for a waist loop, more akin to a fat sling which doesn't get in the way. I find a waist loop is good for keeping a bag stable.

I don't tuck the lid inside the bag either, I put anything I might need enroute in it, then the 2nd can get things out for me on a stance(I can usually reach over my head and pull things out myself if it's not jammed packed inside), avoiding the time wasted taking bags/slings on / off, hunting around inside etc..
Post edited at 09:08
OP Rusty Grylls 04 Oct 2015
In reply to wbo:

cheers man , you see the crux of the p[roblem is my current sleeping bag is faily big but fine for local rock routes. is i winter climb wether ill need to get tons of new kit :/
1
 Offwidth 04 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

Small and simple 30 to 40 with a design linked to climbing is best for summer trad. I often avoid using a sack at all as I prefer (when climbing anything that might test) to clip approach shoes, water and windproof to my harness (weighting up the second if it looks hard for the leader)
 TobyA 04 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

> cheers man , you see the crux of the p[roblem is my current sleeping bag is faily big but fine for local rock routes.

Where do you live?! Looking at your pics it doesn't look like the Alps or the Rockies, so I'm interested how you use your sleeping bag on local rock routes?

If you are looking for a superlight bag that you can carry things up routes in (a coat, some water, trainers etc.) Decathlon do one for a tenner! http://www.decathlon.co.uk/cliff-20-ii-blue-backpack-id_8302352.html But I guess you want more if you really need to be taking a sleeping bag up routes...
 JayPee630 04 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

Current sleeping bag fine for local rock routes?! What do you mean?
OP Rusty Grylls 04 Oct 2015
In reply to TobyA:

i actualy did look ant that sack i think ill get it anyway. no im going to scoutland winter climbing so not alps just yet ( don't know where that came from?) but i might go over in the next year/2
1
OP Rusty Grylls 04 Oct 2015
In reply to JayPee630:

its just big but i can deal with it for the time being but if i did go to scotland this year i would want to get a better one. but thats another issue
1
 JayPee630 04 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

But you climb with it in your bag? On local routes? Bit confused as to what you're after really.
OP Rusty Grylls 04 Oct 2015
In reply to JayPee630:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153605138947980&set=t.1000045...

we camp on multipitch.
i will be eventually doing the same in winter coditions
i need a pack for that
1
 Jamie B 04 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

You really don't want to "camp" on a Scottish winter route unless you have no other option (ie the shit has hit the fan).
 TobyA 04 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

Well that looks like good clean fun, but surely any old bag would do the trick to walk to the top of a Gower sea cliff and add down to a ledge 10 mtrs below, wouldn't it?
 Billhook 04 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

You'll 'camp' on winter climbs in Scotland????

Have you ever been to Scotland in winter?

A. Its bloody cold. No one on here hangs around when winter climbing.
B. Errr, Its high up normally and not sheltered.
C. You may find the weather is changeable. Half way up some climb you think. "Oh, this i'll do for a bivvi spot" sort of thing. During the night the conditions could change so much you may find you cannot continue climbing in the morning due to absolute white out conditions, blizzards and so on. Or;-
D. It could thaw. What could be the crux pitch or indeed and easy one under good winter conditions may indeed turn out to be impossible to do if it rains and thaws overnight.
E. Nights in Scotland are long. Very long. From 4pm its dark early in the season. I assume you'll be eating? Having a brew? Taking some nosh perhaps? A sarni for the morning breakfast?
F. Bivvying on a Scottish Crag? You could find conditions change to :-
1. Avalanche prone during the night.
2. A dump of snow rendering the remaining pitches unsafe or unclimbable (see C above also)

Are you wanting the publicity when MR are called out to recover you by any chance?
2
 Billhook 04 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:
Another thing:- (sorry to go on)

F. Assuming you may need to go for crap/piss at sometime during the evening, night or first thing in a morning? Going to carry it out?? Or leave the evidence plastered over the climb for everyone to stare at with awe and wonder the following day?

(Sorry another thing:- (OK I do go on))

G. There have been times when the weather on Scottish Mountains where the weather is so bad that even they have had to call off search and rescue operations due to the weather being so bad.

(I;m sure I'll think of an H, if there's nothing else on TV before I nod off.)
Post edited at 21:52
1
 Misha 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:
As others have said, you just don't bivvy *on* Scottish winter routes. If you think you might need to bivvy on a route, just don't do it, full stop. However what some people do (and may be this is what you are thinking of?) is walk in, pitch up a tent and use that as a base camp for a day or two. In that case you would want a large bag to pack everything in (considering you will be taking a tent) and then perhaps a fairly small day sack - the idea is that you could gear up at the tent, so wouldn't need to carry much stuff.

For all it's worth, I use a Crux AK47 all year round, both in the UK and overseas. It's a bit large for a climbing day sack but ok and means I can fit everything in, even when taking bivvy stuff on a route in the Alps. The only downside is some of the material is a bit too lightweight and hence not very durable.
 Billhook 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

H. You won't get all your winter kit + Bivvy/overnight stuff in a small pack anyway.
 John Kelly 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

Great and hilarious adventure, keep it up.
Think I recall a couple of instances where very good mountaineers did similar stuff in their formative years
If you can ignore the vitriol there is some really good advice buried in the post from people who know what they are talking about.
Scotland - can be unbelievably brutal in the wrong conditions- act on weather and avalanche forecasts
Take care and enjoy
 neuromancer 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

Unless I'm being stupid it it would appear from his, albeit broken, English that he plans to do alpine mountaineering routes and so wanted to take a light sleeping bag and bivy bag.

Is ukc saying that nobody does alpine summer bivys or have you all just grabbed onto a throwaway comment of his about Scotland and decided to go on sustained fire to the tune of 'yer gonna die'?
 Andy Hardy 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

Some pearls from Bob on this very subject http://bobwightman.co.uk/climb/gear.php?p=alp_gear
 The New NickB 05 Oct 2015
In reply to neuromancer:

He isn't going to the Alps!
 1202alarm 05 Oct 2015
In reply to The New NickB:

I did a few trips to Scotland when I was younger where we camped up in a corrie and went climbing for a few days. I've done it up on the Ben twice. Absolutely brilliant fun though we were very lucky with the weather. If you cant afford to go on an 'expedition' probable the next best thing.

I had a large rucksack (55l) for humping all the gear up to 'base camp' and a much smaller one (20l) for climbing with. Remember when you are climbing, all that'll be in your bag will be a first aid kit, belay jacket and snacks.

PS. Bivvying on a route in Scotland doesnt really fit in with the ethics of Scottish winter climbing, I wouldn't reccomend it
OP Rusty Grylls 05 Oct 2015
In reply to John Kelly:

cheers man i think people asume that every thing is supper serious. its just a bit of fun. i am award that conditions can change but im not gunna not go out because of that risk. at the end of the day we don't need to climb but we cuz its fun right?
3
OP Rusty Grylls 05 Oct 2015
In reply to Scotsken:

cheers thats actualy usfule advise. What do u mean by ethics? if its in terms of looking after the hill ect. id be intrested to know if its a case its just not what people do so others don't im less intrested
3
 Ron Walker 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

We generally use Blue Ice 26 litre Warthog packs for alpine style multi-pitch climbing and find them really good, light, tough and totally unrestrictive.

When climbing we stuff the lid inside, the snow collar and secure with the rope strap, clip back the waist belt and tighten up the shoulder straps securing the chest strap.

You have to be quite selective and minimalistic with your packing at first but with modern light weight gear you can easily carry everything on the approach and climb, close to your onsight limit, while carrying emergency bivy gear, spare warm clothing and your approach shoes.

The only time I ever really notice the pack in on sustained overhangs and tight chimneys where the tough uncluttered design makes the easy to haul.

We've used the sacks for at least three years, summer and winter the bags taking a lot of abuse with very little sign of damage.

A few photos of us climbing on The Needle with them last week See https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.672588462841704.1073741884.124310...
 summo 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

> cheers thats actualy usfule advise. What do u mean by ethics?

Ethics... People won't want to be stood in your frozen pi$$ and poo belaying the next day. Given your level of what I might politely call inexperience of Scottish winters, there is a much greater risk of making a poor judgement call on the weather etc.. and running into problems on day2. If you do plan to go for it anyway, I would only do it on the most perfect long range forecast you can imagine. A vast amount can change in 48hrs(even 24hrs) in Scotland, in terms of the weather, the conditions/difficulty of the route, the avalanche risk etc..

The safest way to tackle any Scottish winter route, is always plan to finish in daylight, even if that means starting very early in darkness and never biting off more than you can chew until you actually understand the mountains a bit more. I would even suggest for your first trips out, you try a winter walk with a camp, then you can move up to climbing/bivvying.
OP Rusty Grylls 05 Oct 2015
In reply to summo:

yea man it is a fair point im only just looking into winter stuff. however i want to get a sack for that now otherwise ill have to buy one now and one in the future
 neuromancer 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

I think the real answer here is that it doesn't really matter all that much. You'll pack to the size of your sack and you'll learn to love whatever you have. All of the big manufacturers make good sacks - so just go with whatever's on sale or cheap or for sale secondhand. 35-45 should give you the flexibility to do much of what you want and whilst a 20-30 might be lighter are you really being limited by the extra 100g of fabric?
 ScottTalbot 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

I've been climbing/hiking for twenty years, on and off, but have only recently developed an interest in winter climbing. I wouldn't want to try to tackle Scottish Mountains in winter without a Winter Skills course under my belt, at the very least.

As for the pack, I think your best bet is to go to a shop and try a few on, chat to the staff and take it from there... No point taking advice on a pack you haven't tried on, as it may not be a comfortable fit for you.
 1202alarm 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

Ethics - basically a set of agreed upon codes of behaviour that determine what is or not acceptable. Far from being a free for all where anything goes, climbing has as many rules of ettiquete as golf.

Go to the library and see if you can find some books on UK winter climbing. Just like in surfing you don't drop in on people or in road cycling you take your turn on the front on a club run, in winter climbing in Scotland nobody would plan to bivvy on an established winter climb unless they were in trouble.

If you want to go winter camping/hillwalking/snow holing whatever, fill your boots but I wouldn't reccoment 'camping' on an established winter climb ie. one that appears in a guidebook.

About the only route in Scotland that requires a bivvy is the traverse of the Cuillin Ridge but by the time you have the experience to do that successfully you won't need to ask what sac to buy!
1
 alasdair19 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

I had a strange urge to bivvy in the basin on orion face and off er the first climbers up a cup of tea...

camping in Tower ridge is probably slightly more sensible. enough kit to be comfortable is sadly bloody heavy
 wbo 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford: if we get around the phobia/obsession with bodily wastes is it actually 'unethical' to bicycle on a Scottish route? It might be a bit grim , but unethical.

Or has it become against the ethos of climbing to have some fun and a bit of adventure?

 summo 05 Oct 2015
In reply to wbo:

> is it actually 'unethical' to bicycle on a Scottish route?

Are we talking about is a Scottish winter route within the remit of a mountain bike leader?
 wbo 05 Oct 2015
In reply to summo:
Ouch, damn you autocomplete.... Bivi

Oddly though both are considered pernicious behaviors by youngsters not giving the mountains the respect they deserve, and spoiling the day for angry men in armchairs
 Wingnut 05 Oct 2015
In reply to wbo:
>>bicycle on a Scottish route

Crampon-compatible pedals, presumably?
 Offwidth 05 Oct 2015
In reply to wbo:

I've never heard of these ethics against planned bivis and people camp under the Ben all the time without proper access to the latest forecasts. As for poo and piss its best climbers are careful but its a lot better frozen than the disgusting mess some climbers leave in summer.
 GrahamUney 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

I tested four alpine packs back in the summer (from Millet, Osprey, Lowe Alpine, and Force Ten). The Force Ten Alpine 45 is absolutely superb, in my opinion! They do a newly designed 35l too.

Hope that helps.

Graham
 John Kelly 05 Oct 2015
In reply to Offwidth:

I once saw someone bivi on Raven crag, top first pitch of Pluto, top spot - sheltered by an E8 wall



 galpinos 05 Oct 2015
In reply to wbo:

Of course it's not unethical. If I was climbing a classic route and found some kids bivying on it I'd be impressed (assuming the survived) not annoyed or upset.

Sounds like an adventure, don't underestimate the weather and, if things go wrong, don't be afraid to abandon your plans, run off to a nice warm bed and come back to fight/climb/bivy another
 John Kelly 05 Oct 2015
In reply to galpinos:

I think this could take off!!
 summo 05 Oct 2015
In reply to wbo:

Although, given that much of the cuillin ridge has now been biked, a solid gully is within the capabilities of the gifted few.
 summo 05 Oct 2015
In reply to Offwidth:

> I've never heard of these ethics against planned bivis and people camp under the Ben all the time without proper access to the latest forecasts. As for poo and piss its best climbers are careful but its a lot better frozen than the disgusting mess some climbers leave in summer.

And then in spring?
 galpinos 05 Oct 2015
In reply to summo:

Having spent winters in a French ski resort, the stench from a season's worth of crap from tiny French dogs, defrosting in the heat of the sun was grim.
 pass and peak 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

I have a Lowe Alpine Mountain attack 45l, which is more than big enough for anything Scottish winter climbing and yet just big enough for a 1/2 night camp. One thing that hasn't been mentioned is the sacks back length! If its got a short back length it really helps with visibility, as when you hitch it up to climb its not so restrictive when you tilt your head back to look up the climb. So if you've got a medium length back and it feels comfortable go for a short back sack.
Ohh yeh, and as others have said, unless your into self harm and practicing for some major route in the greater ranges there's no real reason to Bivi on a Scottish winter climb!
 Billhook 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

If my initial replies were on the incredulous or a little mean, it may be more appropriate to suggest that it might be better to experience what you want in winter by looking for easier winter routes, which have some scope for building snow-holes either on route or off to one side, on easier and maybe safer ground.

Being in a snow hole also avoids the real risk of people alerting mountain rescue because they've seen your bivvi lights flashing around and assuming you are stuck. But you will need a proper goretex bivvy bag and not a cheap orange plastic bivvy bag to endure a Scottish night with any degree of comfort. (ex military bivvy bags can be got for around £30!

 Misha 05 Oct 2015
In reply to Scotsken:
Not sure it's unethical to bivvy on a Scottish winter route, just that no one does because you don't need to and carrying all the kit up a route would be a pain.

 Joak 05 Oct 2015
In reply to rustyford:

> Iv just started multi pitching with a rucksack and want to get an alpine pack. how many leters to go for? would a 35 :45 be ok?...... also dose anyone find climbing with a pack obstructive?

Yes
 1202alarm 06 Oct 2015
In reply to Misha:

Fair enough, I'm no expert. Do what you want just take all your litter and poo home with you.

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...