This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
I'm off to Chamonix for a few weeks soon and my girlfriend has expressed an interest in doing some via ferrata while we are away. I've done very little via ferrata and I've never bothered with a proper shock absorbing system so I've got a few questions:
1) All the via ferrata sets seem to be based around screamers (I understand a lot of the friction systems got recalled a while back), so what do you do in the event of actually falling on one? I've always found that cock-ups are social creatures and tend to hunt in packs. Is it worth carrying the screamer I've had sat at the bottom of my gear box for ages just in case?
2) We've got the Cicerone guide to Via Ferrata in the Alps on order, any suggestions for must do routes?
3) I had a look at the Needle sports website and they suggested that most Via Ferrata sets are only rated for use by persons between 50 and 100kg without additional back-up. I'd have to go on a crash diet and take off all my clothes to stand a chance of getting under 100kg, so will I end up roping up and annoying everyone behind us?
Thanks
1) All the via ferrata sets seem to be based around screamers (I understand a lot of the friction systems got recalled a while back), so what do you do in the event of actually falling on one? I've always found that cock-ups are social creatures and tend to hunt in packs. Is it worth carrying the screamer I've had sat at the bottom of my gear box for ages just in case?
2) We've got the Cicerone guide to Via Ferrata in the Alps on order, any suggestions for must do routes?
3) I had a look at the Needle sports website and they suggested that most Via Ferrata sets are only rated for use by persons between 50 and 100kg without additional back-up. I'd have to go on a crash diet and take off all my clothes to stand a chance of getting under 100kg, so will I end up roping up and annoying everyone behind us?
Thanks
In reply to Reach>Talent:
I am sure there are more experienced VF'ers on UKC but I did some this summer with my son. My observations are as follows:
1) They are quite easy for experienced climbers
2) Don't ever fall off
3) You need to be pretty rubbish to fall off
4) Many people on them climb slower than you hence you end up queuing a lot if they are busy
5) Lanyards are useful for resting if you are getting tired (and are easily strong enough for heavy people to rest on)
6) You have to be pretty unfit or on a really long and steep one to get tired
7) Don't ever fall off
8) Try to avoid clipping onto the same section of cable as the person in front of you
9) Don't rope up on them
10) Don't ever fall off
Alan
I am sure there are more experienced VF'ers on UKC but I did some this summer with my son. My observations are as follows:
1) They are quite easy for experienced climbers
2) Don't ever fall off
3) You need to be pretty rubbish to fall off
4) Many people on them climb slower than you hence you end up queuing a lot if they are busy
5) Lanyards are useful for resting if you are getting tired (and are easily strong enough for heavy people to rest on)
6) You have to be pretty unfit or on a really long and steep one to get tired
7) Don't ever fall off
8) Try to avoid clipping onto the same section of cable as the person in front of you
9) Don't rope up on them
10) Don't ever fall off
Alan
5
In reply to Reach>Talent:
The 'screamers' on via ferreta kits are specific to them, do NOT use ice climb screamers for this purpose. Buy a specific via ferreta lanyard (Decathlon has a cheap one).
Falling on one; if you fell hard. Might need to call mountain rescue (the metal steps are not nice things...), if it's not a hard fall and the scream did not deploy much, finish and discard the lanyard afterwards.
There are kits with can hold higher weights (but cost more): Example the Edelrid Cable Rent ( 50 - 140 KG range).
Recalls where primarily due to the elastic construction of the lanyards (woven in to one thing), now and previously they are/were tubular webbing with a bungee in the middle.
Don't fall off.
Really, don't fall off.
The 'screamers' on via ferreta kits are specific to them, do NOT use ice climb screamers for this purpose. Buy a specific via ferreta lanyard (Decathlon has a cheap one).
Falling on one; if you fell hard. Might need to call mountain rescue (the metal steps are not nice things...), if it's not a hard fall and the scream did not deploy much, finish and discard the lanyard afterwards.
There are kits with can hold higher weights (but cost more): Example the Edelrid Cable Rent ( 50 - 140 KG range).
Recalls where primarily due to the elastic construction of the lanyards (woven in to one thing), now and previously they are/were tubular webbing with a bungee in the middle.
Don't fall off.
Really, don't fall off.
1
In reply to Reach>Talent:
Be very careful and get down as quickly as possible. But VF kit isn't for falling on deliberately, it's so you don't fall hundreds of feet and die - because of the metal staples, ladders etc and a lot of routes being slabby a VF fall is still likely to result in injury, possibly serious. So don't fall, and don't do stuff where you think it's likely that you will.
As equipment is generally tested in excess of its stated breaking strain, I (probably a bit over 120kg all-up including clothes and kit) just took a bit of a chance, in reality it would just mean a harder catch in all but the worst falls. Though if there was a high chance of a particularly bad fall you might want someone to belay you up anyway regardless of weight, though we didn't find we needed to except for one particularly awkward descent where I got a bit stuck and decided to come off the wire entirely and ab down.
Neil
> I'm off to Chamonix for a few weeks soon and my girlfriend has expressed an interest in doing some via ferrata while we are away. I've done very little via ferrata and I've never bothered with a proper shock absorbing system so I've got a few questions:
> 1) All the via ferrata sets seem to be based around screamers (I understand a lot of the friction systems got recalled a while back), so what do you do in the event of actually falling on one?
Be very careful and get down as quickly as possible. But VF kit isn't for falling on deliberately, it's so you don't fall hundreds of feet and die - because of the metal staples, ladders etc and a lot of routes being slabby a VF fall is still likely to result in injury, possibly serious. So don't fall, and don't do stuff where you think it's likely that you will.
> 3) I had a look at the Needle sports website and they suggested that most Via Ferrata sets are only rated for use by persons between 50 and 100kg without additional back-up. I'd have to go on a crash diet and take off all my clothes to stand a chance of getting under 100kg, so will I end up roping up and annoying everyone behind us?
As equipment is generally tested in excess of its stated breaking strain, I (probably a bit over 120kg all-up including clothes and kit) just took a bit of a chance, in reality it would just mean a harder catch in all but the worst falls. Though if there was a high chance of a particularly bad fall you might want someone to belay you up anyway regardless of weight, though we didn't find we needed to except for one particularly awkward descent where I got a bit stuck and decided to come off the wire entirely and ab down.
Neil
In reply to Alan James - Rockfax:
Excellent advice.
It's a thought that often passes through my mind when doing VFs
>
> 10) Don't ever fall off
> 10) Don't ever fall off
Excellent advice.
It's a thought that often passes through my mind when doing VFs
In reply to tjin:
They are quite cheap to buy in Italy compared with the UK, don't know about Cham but if it's similar buy one out there. You can also hire them, I guess you then have to buy if you do fall on it
Indeed. You will probably still get hurt. The gear is just the difference between pain and death.
Neil
> The 'screamers' on via ferreta kits are specific to them, do NOT use ice climb screamers for this purpose. Buy a specific via ferreta lanyard (Decathlon has a cheap one).
They are quite cheap to buy in Italy compared with the UK, don't know about Cham but if it's similar buy one out there. You can also hire them, I guess you then have to buy if you do fall on it
> Really, don't fall off.
Indeed. You will probably still get hurt. The gear is just the difference between pain and death.
Neil
Post edited at 10:16
In reply to tjin:
Might bear that in mind for next time, cheers. I did look around briefly and couldn't find one rated over 100kg.
Neil
> There are kits with can hold higher weights (but cost more): Example the Edelrid Cable Rent ( 50 - 140 KG range).
Might bear that in mind for next time, cheers. I did look around briefly and couldn't find one rated over 100kg.
Neil
In reply to Reach>Talent:
As others have already said ,,, you won't fall off ,,, unless you don't fully trust you lanyard and get pumped ! Mate of mine got a proper vf lanyard yet it was that long and dangling around it nearly killed him and drove him nuts the rest of the time ! After seeing how quick and easy it was (and much more enjoyable ) with a proper elasticated vf lanyard he bit the bullet and bought a new one . Petzl scorpio for me every time , even has a third attachment point for resting
As others have already said ,,, you won't fall off ,,, unless you don't fully trust you lanyard and get pumped ! Mate of mine got a proper vf lanyard yet it was that long and dangling around it nearly killed him and drove him nuts the rest of the time ! After seeing how quick and easy it was (and much more enjoyable ) with a proper elasticated vf lanyard he bit the bullet and bought a new one . Petzl scorpio for me every time , even has a third attachment point for resting
1
In reply to Reach>Talent:
I've done quite a few of the French via feratta on rest days. My gf and I both agree that one of our favourites is http://www.viaferrata-fr.net/via-ferrata-22-Le-Roc-du-Vent-Beaufort-Savoie....
It's in the region of Beufortain which is a stunning area. It's not a particularity hard vf but is interesting all the way and the setting is great. Many French vf tend to be near urban areas or in not such a nice setting. This one is a definite exception to that. For shear difficulty there is one by a castle in Grenoble and two in Val D'isere, all of which have some pretty steep and sustained sections but are in not such a nice settling.
Also, I use the friction plate rig from Petzl (the single use sets weren't the norm when I bought mine) which is possible to reset after a fall, but as others have said falling would definitely end in tears and if you get tired it's best to carry a cows tail to clip into the metal rungs rather than fall.
Also, I echo Alan's comments...even the longest, steepest vf will feel no more than leading a VS.
I've done quite a few of the French via feratta on rest days. My gf and I both agree that one of our favourites is http://www.viaferrata-fr.net/via-ferrata-22-Le-Roc-du-Vent-Beaufort-Savoie....
It's in the region of Beufortain which is a stunning area. It's not a particularity hard vf but is interesting all the way and the setting is great. Many French vf tend to be near urban areas or in not such a nice setting. This one is a definite exception to that. For shear difficulty there is one by a castle in Grenoble and two in Val D'isere, all of which have some pretty steep and sustained sections but are in not such a nice settling.
Also, I use the friction plate rig from Petzl (the single use sets weren't the norm when I bought mine) which is possible to reset after a fall, but as others have said falling would definitely end in tears and if you get tired it's best to carry a cows tail to clip into the metal rungs rather than fall.
Also, I echo Alan's comments...even the longest, steepest vf will feel no more than leading a VS.
Post edited at 10:57
In reply to Reach>Talent:
In reply to Reach>Talent:
just back from doing a few (ive done lots). You will see all sorts in the italian alps from just a length of rope, a body harness made out of rope and many eople without the right kit. but dont do it....
Its like scrambling with some gear - that's the way to approach it...
agree with Alan on all he said, except some of the harder ones can be pretty steep., and fun in the wet !
there are 2 types of absorber, screamer types (as other have said special ones) and KISA types where a friction device that a rope tail is pulled through to absorb the energy. The attached lanyards can be rope or tape, I have both sorts. THis allows you to reset (with difficulty and probably a bit buggered but it's something at least!) but in common with everyone else , I reckon you fall off busted bones are likely- so just dont ! If you have a screamer type then descend as easily as you can.
1) get a helmet (light colour for sun) - the dolomites esp are loose, bits fall off and there is usually someone in front, get one and put it on early.
2) attach your own lanyard/cows tail/quick draw for resting (i use a60cm sling threaded into arness and large HMS to clip over rungs) THis is easy and good to rest on if required - don't clip it like the proper VF laynards as it's static
3) get some gloves (fingerless), I use aldi cycling gloves for 3 or 4 quid a pair. Some wires have frays and helps when pulling up on them
4) a short 20m rope (old 1/2) is good for protecting a nervous inexperienced person - a munter/italian hitch on HMS on one of the bolts (often there are supplementary bolts one newer VFs) is quick and easy, and can speed things up on the odd tricky section. Dont try and lead it or use all the time, take forever !
5) decending them is harder and looks scary but is possible
6) try not to get caught out in an electric storm :0)
In reply to Reach>Talent:
just back from doing a few (ive done lots). You will see all sorts in the italian alps from just a length of rope, a body harness made out of rope and many eople without the right kit. but dont do it....
> 1) All the via ferrata sets seem to be based around screamers (I understand a lot of the friction systems got recalled a while back), so what do you do in the event of actually falling on one? I've always found that cock-ups are social creatures and tend to hunt in packs. Is it worth carrying the screamer I've had sat at the bottom of my gear box for ages just in case?
Its like scrambling with some gear - that's the way to approach it...
agree with Alan on all he said, except some of the harder ones can be pretty steep., and fun in the wet !
there are 2 types of absorber, screamer types (as other have said special ones) and KISA types where a friction device that a rope tail is pulled through to absorb the energy. The attached lanyards can be rope or tape, I have both sorts. THis allows you to reset (with difficulty and probably a bit buggered but it's something at least!) but in common with everyone else , I reckon you fall off busted bones are likely- so just dont ! If you have a screamer type then descend as easily as you can.
1) get a helmet (light colour for sun) - the dolomites esp are loose, bits fall off and there is usually someone in front, get one and put it on early.
2) attach your own lanyard/cows tail/quick draw for resting (i use a60cm sling threaded into arness and large HMS to clip over rungs) THis is easy and good to rest on if required - don't clip it like the proper VF laynards as it's static
3) get some gloves (fingerless), I use aldi cycling gloves for 3 or 4 quid a pair. Some wires have frays and helps when pulling up on them
4) a short 20m rope (old 1/2) is good for protecting a nervous inexperienced person - a munter/italian hitch on HMS on one of the bolts (often there are supplementary bolts one newer VFs) is quick and easy, and can speed things up on the odd tricky section. Dont try and lead it or use all the time, take forever !
5) decending them is harder and looks scary but is possible
6) try not to get caught out in an electric storm :0)
> Thanks
1
In reply to Reach>Talent:
All the comments about not falling are bang on. It is a horrendous thing to do, quite apart from the high impact forces, there is also the problem that the fall will be messy 8/10. So don't.
The weight thing is actually somewhat counter intuitive. For the lanyards to work you need a certain amount of force to start to activate them. The ratings are more about what mass they are designed to activate rather than the maximum force you can be for them to be effective, and in reality a smaller mass is far far worse than a large mass. This is because the force required to activate the system dos not decrease with the persons mass, but instead brings the climber to rest more abruptly, transmitting more energy to them. Whilst a large climber will activate it more easily, at least it will be fully activated and the time over which the energy is absorbed is long enough to reduce the final impact force. So actually its more your girlfriend you have to worry about.
Also the recalls were about fluffed up frictional sets too - the rope diameter and condition is utterly critical to these types of sets, and they can become completely ineffective, so if you have a set like this you need to check it throughly and regularly and replace worn rope. Mostly these types now have a covering over them to protect the active part of the set.
As for lashing a set together, just dont. For starters a standard carabiner is not deigned for a side loading, hence VF carabiners - they're not just there to look pretty. Secondly the absorber is designed specifically to work with the type of loadings encountered on a VF. These are quite different to ice climbing. In summation, just buy a kit, or rent one, but check the rental kit yourself before using it.
All the comments about not falling are bang on. It is a horrendous thing to do, quite apart from the high impact forces, there is also the problem that the fall will be messy 8/10. So don't.
The weight thing is actually somewhat counter intuitive. For the lanyards to work you need a certain amount of force to start to activate them. The ratings are more about what mass they are designed to activate rather than the maximum force you can be for them to be effective, and in reality a smaller mass is far far worse than a large mass. This is because the force required to activate the system dos not decrease with the persons mass, but instead brings the climber to rest more abruptly, transmitting more energy to them. Whilst a large climber will activate it more easily, at least it will be fully activated and the time over which the energy is absorbed is long enough to reduce the final impact force. So actually its more your girlfriend you have to worry about.
Also the recalls were about fluffed up frictional sets too - the rope diameter and condition is utterly critical to these types of sets, and they can become completely ineffective, so if you have a set like this you need to check it throughly and regularly and replace worn rope. Mostly these types now have a covering over them to protect the active part of the set.
As for lashing a set together, just dont. For starters a standard carabiner is not deigned for a side loading, hence VF carabiners - they're not just there to look pretty. Secondly the absorber is designed specifically to work with the type of loadings encountered on a VF. These are quite different to ice climbing. In summation, just buy a kit, or rent one, but check the rental kit yourself before using it.
1
In reply to beardy mike:
And yet... I know a lot of people who should know better who seem to be under the impression that VF is perfectly safe and nothing can ever go wrong because the cable will protect you.
And yet... I know a lot of people who should know better who seem to be under the impression that VF is perfectly safe and nothing can ever go wrong because the cable will protect you.
In reply to Reach>Talent:
Have done lots of VF/klettersteigs in Austria, Germany and in the Dolomites over the last 12 years. To start choose routes up to mid grade which you are less likely to fall from. I/my wife have never fallen nor have my kids who are now grown up. Often there are places to rest on low to mid grades and if it's popular (eg. Brigata Tridentina, Dolomites) the queues will force you to rest. But that's ok as the views are often well worth the wait anyway.
As for the thought of falling as others have said just don't as yes I'd imagine it wouldn't be nice. For info I've never seen a fall happen but they are known obviously.
I'm probably more concerned about potential storms when we go out so take note of the forecasts and keep an eye on the weather when you are out. Going early in the day helps as you know the storms happen mostly in the afternoon. Going early allows more time, less rush and less likely to make a mistake resulting in a fall.
We have walked out in approaching storms and sometimes they appear from nowhere and can be quite nasty.
Most of all have fun and enjoy it. They are great fun.
Have done lots of VF/klettersteigs in Austria, Germany and in the Dolomites over the last 12 years. To start choose routes up to mid grade which you are less likely to fall from. I/my wife have never fallen nor have my kids who are now grown up. Often there are places to rest on low to mid grades and if it's popular (eg. Brigata Tridentina, Dolomites) the queues will force you to rest. But that's ok as the views are often well worth the wait anyway.
As for the thought of falling as others have said just don't as yes I'd imagine it wouldn't be nice. For info I've never seen a fall happen but they are known obviously.
I'm probably more concerned about potential storms when we go out so take note of the forecasts and keep an eye on the weather when you are out. Going early in the day helps as you know the storms happen mostly in the afternoon. Going early allows more time, less rush and less likely to make a mistake resulting in a fall.
We have walked out in approaching storms and sometimes they appear from nowhere and can be quite nasty.
Most of all have fun and enjoy it. They are great fun.
In reply to simonzxr:
...unless it's this one that's apparently akin to German rock climbing grade 7 or 5.12:-
youtube.com/watch?v=OelIdeM9Y3s&
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.ber...
> ...even the longest, steepest vf will feel no more than leading a VS.
...unless it's this one that's apparently akin to German rock climbing grade 7 or 5.12:-
youtube.com/watch?v=OelIdeM9Y3s&
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.ber...
In reply to Toerag:
I was referring to French via-ferrata with that comment as the op is heading to Chamonix....I think that route in Germany is certainly not the norm (Pretty sure UIAA 7 is more like 5:10 anyway)
French vf is very different to the Dolomites (and other places I assume) as it's all cable pulling and ladders rather than cable protected (polished) rock climbing. Also nowhere near as committing as many of the Dolomites routes.
I was referring to French via-ferrata with that comment as the op is heading to Chamonix....I think that route in Germany is certainly not the norm (Pretty sure UIAA 7 is more like 5:10 anyway)
French vf is very different to the Dolomites (and other places I assume) as it's all cable pulling and ladders rather than cable protected (polished) rock climbing. Also nowhere near as committing as many of the Dolomites routes.
In reply to simonzxr:
Plenty of ladders in the Dolomites, indeed there's one route that is pretty much *only* rusty ladders (and is just a little bit scary as a result).
Plenty of ladders in the Dolomites, indeed there's one route that is pretty much *only* rusty ladders (and is just a little bit scary as a result).
1
In reply to simonzxr:
It wasn't pedantry, it was a statement that Dolomites VF is not just rock climbing with wire protection as was being implied.
It wasn't pedantry, it was a statement that Dolomites VF is not just rock climbing with wire protection as was being implied.
Post edited at 18:37
1
In reply to Reach>Talent:
Just back from Chamonix where we did the VF Curalla at Plan Passy Via Ferrata de Curalla (VF3A) Its about a 35 minute drive from Cham and there is parking (and a hire hut that sells drinks/ice-creams).
Its an easy route (Rated AD+ I think) but has great views across the valley. I think the guide book called it "Airy" and I'd probably go along with that. Like many French routes, there's a lot of iron-work, so if you don't like to use it, then look elsewhere.
Not so much actual ascent, its more of a traverse.
Last year we did Yves Pollet-Villard (Eve Pollard) Via Ferrata Yves Pollet-Villard (VF4C) which is also a nice route. There is parking here but nothing else (Though La Clusaz is fairly close)
HTH
Just back from Chamonix where we did the VF Curalla at Plan Passy Via Ferrata de Curalla (VF3A) Its about a 35 minute drive from Cham and there is parking (and a hire hut that sells drinks/ice-creams).
Its an easy route (Rated AD+ I think) but has great views across the valley. I think the guide book called it "Airy" and I'd probably go along with that. Like many French routes, there's a lot of iron-work, so if you don't like to use it, then look elsewhere.
Not so much actual ascent, its more of a traverse.
Last year we did Yves Pollet-Villard (Eve Pollard) Via Ferrata Yves Pollet-Villard (VF4C) which is also a nice route. There is parking here but nothing else (Though La Clusaz is fairly close)
HTH
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Elsewhere on the site
Loading Notifications...