UKH

I'll apologise in advance for my complete ignorance and asking of what is perhaps a silly question, but here goes:

I'm really keen to explore some mixed lines in the MB massif this autumn and, from what I understand, depending on the snow level and stuff, lots of approaches are better done on skis than on foot.

However, I have pretty modest ski experience, having done about a week's worth of on-piste skiing (i.e. next to nothing). How realistic is it for someone like me to be able to hire some touring kit, skin into routes and slide slowly back down to town with the occasional fall?

I'm fully prepared to get shot down; expecting a lot of responses telling me I need a lot more on and off piste experience before trying to do stuff like this but I figured it was worth asking. I know I'd enjoy the experience more if I could ski well, but is it possible for a punter to just struggle through?

In reply to alexm198:

You'll almost certainly be faster and safer on snowshoes.

In reply to john arran:

Yeah I'd thought about snowshoes, though I've only heard bad things about them. The other issue is finding someone who's also willing to snowshoe! (Many of my alpine partners ski pretty well). Good idea though, thanks.

In reply to alexm198:

Years ago, with a total of maybe 4 weeks downhill skiing experience, I had a similar idea, bought some approach skis and took them into Creag Meagaidh on a day of pretty deep snow coverage, hoping to enjoy the ride out. Half way back I finally took the skis off and rushed to catch up my partner who was just walking out. A combination of heavy sack and bendy-ankled boots made it almost impossible for me to ski. I know equipment is a lot better now but I doubt it would help enough.

Snowshoes, on the other hand are just like walking, but far easier and less tiring whenever the snow is soft and deep. Nowhere near as fast as skiing if you ski well, but likely to be much faster if you're falling every fifty metres on skis.

In reply to alexm198:

Lots of folks from a piste background overestimate how good a skier you need to be to use skis solely for transport. If you get a bit of practice skinning and recognise your limitations then you don't need to be a fantastic skier to use them effectively.

In reply to alexm198:

Just get on it mate, there are loads of non challenging approaches to great routes and learning to ski on the way home is really fun, you don't always have to worry about last lifts etc. either which is a bonus of skis. I imagine snow shoes would be very dull at the end of a long day...

In reply to DaveHK:


Add in tired legs, weight of a rucksack etc.. not easy with very limited ski experience. Then there is the skiing over glaciers without the route knowledge, so skiing roped... snow shoes would be better for a first go. I would recommend they try skiing in and out in Scotland first this winter, where you don't have to worry about crevasses, then advance things to the Alps next year.

In reply to alexm198:
I wouldn't ski on glaciers without beacon, probe, shovel etc, so is this what you mean by "touring kit"? You can learn to use this in a day or so if required and a week's experience should be sufficient for some of the MB approaches via the Midi. I would tend to prioritise safety over skiing ability.

I've seen it done by some pretty awful skiers. You can get down a lot with snowplow turns; combined with positive mental attitude and fitness to get up from the inev itable headplants!

You are compromising on safety somewhat, even if young (preferably) and fit (necessarily), partly due to risk of sprains etc from falling, but more seriously unlike another poster suggested, it is quite unusual to ski roped up over glaciers, mainly only done when viz is atrocious. People rely on the weight spreading of skis - but that doesnt apply when you do a headplant. Also falls load slopes, so you are more likely to trigger avalanches; IIRC 30 deg is the magic angle where this becomes much more likely, so stick to less steep than this if comditions are at all questionable ( OHM will give an avalanche forecast I think).

I used snowshoes once in April for Chere colouir and it was awful, never again.

You should def have transceiver shovel probe as MW said, and know how to use them. I'd strongly suggest a day or two's experimental baby ski tours before launching off the midi, perhaps just short hikes off the chairlifts (you can buy single uplift tickets eg at Flevere iirc). As well as working out if your skiing can cope off piste, this is a great way to make sure your hirekit works and fits.

In reply to alexm198:

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I would say that so long as you can do competent kick turns and can stay balanced for long gentle zig zag traverses you don't have to be a brilliant off piste skier.

However reading the slopes and conditions (avalanche risks/crevasses/seracks etc) is a different matter and I'd be very cautious about going solo.

Have you considered hiring a guide?

In reply to Trangia:

A week of piste skiing and competent kick turns are not usually two things that go together.....

In reply to alexm198:

Learning the mechanics of skinning isn't particularly taxing - I've taken friends with only a handful of weeks of piste skiing under their belts, and they've been fine on the up. The problem is the skills and experience required to handle yourself in avalanche terrain, and coping with the skiing down in a wide range of snow conditions. This has very little in common with the skills you gain skiing on piste.

I'd recommend getting some off-piste skiing experience and perhaps an introductory course by someone like ISM (http://www.alpin-ism.com/courses/ski-touring-and-off-piste ) -- or employ a guide.

In reply to Stefan Kruger:

Just as a counter to some of the advice above, and I'm not really suggesting this is the best idea, but...

I did a weeks skiing as a kid, then about 10 years later decided I wanted to do some spring alpine routes, bought some touring skis, had two days with a friend who was a good skier as a refresher, and then launched myself off the midi. Had a terrible time with a heavy bag and my binding release DIN being set to my weight, not the combined weight of me+bag. I fell over lots, and was generally crap. But I didn't die, and we did some great routes and had lots of fun.

Personally, I think the hardest thing was transitioning to skiing with a heavy pack in really variable snow conditions. If you pick your routes well, you should be able to find ones which have pretty simple access/descent routes and you can cut your touring teeth on them, rather than picking climbs you fancy and then dealing with horrible steep descents to get to/from them.

As many others have already mentioned: be avalanche aware and make sure you know how to use your TSP.

In reply to alexm198:

Autumn is probably not the best time to learn to ski to climbs. Any snow cover will will not have consolidated over crevasses so the main problem is not skiing but prussiking out of large holes.

In reply to alexm198:

I was in a similar position several years ago, albeit with about two months of piste skiing and Scottish touring. If you're set on it, and assuming you don't already have touring gear and someone to show you the ropes, I would get a guide to show you down the Vallee Blanche. No touring kit required. It's the route down for many of the day routes off the Midi. Then perhaps try it later in the day, with thin Autumnal snow cover, a heavy bag, and getting dark. Then remember you need to ski down through the trees from Montenvers, again with a heavy bag and legs made of jelly. It's hard work after a long day out. If conditions when you go are anything like this Spring, then taking 'the occasional fall' on the way down isn't recommended at all. Struggling through isn't worth the risk IMO. Skiing down the VB as a ski run (red grade apparently) is very easy compared to with climbing kit.

Saying that, the Argentiere basin has many great routes that are ski accessible. From the top of the GM you can ski to the base of the Frendo-Ravenel for example, all downhill for about 500m. Climb the route and ab down. Walk (crevassed) with skis back to the piste, then ski down to town. If you leave it until late in the evening you'll have 1000m of descent on freshly groomed pistes all the way back to town with no one else around. You don't even need touring skis for that. It's an enjoyable ski down in the dark, rather than dodging frightening crevasses in poor visibility down the VB!

I also wouldn't use snow shows. It's a long walk back down to town in the evening! Skis are much better for that.