UKH

Hi

does anybody have any experience of getting work with a criminal record? 23 years old now - stupid mistake I made when 18 keeps holding me back. Would love to get a job at an outdoors centre but every time I apply they are really interested in my application until the minute I mention about my record then they completely shut me down. Actually this happens with most jobs that I apply for! ( before anybody starts I fully accept this is my own fault due to me being a stupid 18 year old just looking for some advice)

Any advice would be greatly appreciated - Thanks

Sam

In reply to SambucaHughes:

Hi Sam, no real advice to offer I'm afraid - but isn't there a period of time where certain things 'die', or 'expire'...and you no longer have to mention them?

Totally accept this may be dependant on the nature of the offence and the type of job you're going for (and appreciate you may not want to go into details).

I'm sure there'll be some employers along very soon to give you their take on things.

In reply to SambucaHughes:

With the proviso that your criminal record is for theft or drugs or similar and not for inapppropriate behaviour in one seeking work at an outdoor centre:

For starters don't volunteer your criminal record unless asked (but don't lie either). What matters is how well you can perform the job and what level of responsibility (and trust) you can handle. If an employer fails to check your record, offers you the job and then you prove exemplary at the task, then it won't matter one bit that you made a stupid mistake in your past, nor that you failed to mention it. But if it comes up, you're never going to be an easy pick and that's something you need to learn to live with.

On the other hand, having a good speech prepared about the lessons you've learnt from your mistakes and how you'll work twice as hard to prove that's all in the past might just sway a boss with a social conscience (or an eye on the motivations of a redemption-seeker). And then work your effing balls off to prove they were right to give you a opportunity. Anyone prepared to do so is taking a big chance themselves and you owe them big time.

In reply to ThunderCat:

Hi ThunderCat
I was under the impression that after a certain period of time you don't have to mention them - but I was also under the impression that if an employer does a enhance DBS check then these would still show up. Maybe im wrong will have to find out ! thanks though




In reply to BnB:


Thanks for your reply - Offence is related to drugs ( cannabis ) not inappropriate behaviour.

On a previous application to a centre I informed them of my record at the beginning in the interest of full disclosure and told them about how much I regretted it and would prove how hard I would be willing to work if they gave me the chance ( didn't want to waste there time or mine ). They said this shouldn't be an issue invited me along to an assessment week to prove myself but then unfortunately the week before I received a message advising they had retracted there offer. I completely understand that this is all my own fault - just a bit frustrating as all I need is the opportunity to prove myself !

Anyway - Thanks for the replys guys

In reply to SambucaHughes:

Get some clarification mate. I'd think sexual offences were one thing that would scupper your chances for life of working in certain industries, but dabbling in a bit of weed in your late teens? Surely not. Shame if it has such a lasting effect on you.

There's a lot of knowledgeable people on here who will be able to advise.

Hope it all pans out for you dude.

In reply to SambucaHughes:

Could you volunteer somewhere to prove you regret what you've done ect? Maybe a drugs related charity or something. That way you've proved you've done something about your past. I bet every person with a criminal record says they regret it, it's about separating your self from that.

In reply to SambucaHughes:
http://disclose.me.uk/question/how-long-will-my-conviction-stay-on-record/

Do you have any work history? I think you should look at getting any job to prove yourself and get a good reference before you think about applying to places where you will be checked.

In the end outdoor centres work with kids and can't risk the scandal if you turned out to be a dealer or something.

Look for a job where you don't need a check for now. Just my opinion.

In reply to SambucaHughes:

Whether your conviction is spent or not depends on the sentence.

Assuming you got less than 2 years in prison, your conviction is spent and you should never mention it, even on insurance forms that ask if you've ever had a conviction.

But if you are applying for work that involves providing leisure or recreational activities to under 18s, then you have to mention it. This should be made clear on any application form (that the role applied for is exempt under the Rehab of Offenders Act).

So unless the Centres you are applying to take an enlightened view, you is stuffed.

You may find that in a few years the local police have deleted the record and it won't show up even after an enhanced check, so you'll be ok.

It's crap but there doesn't seem to be much wish to drastically change it for these trivial offences.

In reply to SambucaHughes:

You could try timpsons. http://www.greatbusiness.gov.uk/timpsons-life-changing-recruitment-policy/

In reply to SambucaHughes:


Very surprised people are bothered about that. Scouting, which is notoriously strict on such things, doesn't turn its nose up at minor offences most of the time, though it does depend exactly what it is and whether you seem to be a reformed character.

Neil

In reply to SambucaHughes:

I wouldn't employ you because your first name is Sambuca. A love of Sambuca tells me all I need to know about you.
FFS does anyone with half a brain cell actually like that shit?

Boggy

In reply to SambucaHughes:

The expiry after 11 years does not apply to a whole raft of offences if it is a CRB/DBS check you need.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dbs-list-of-offences-that-will-n...

I would be not mention it unless asked, but would disclose it for the CRB/DBS - other wise you risk further a conviction.

In reply to SambucaHughes:

Some youth work volunteer positions will accept some past issues as it can mean that the person may be able to speak from experience with kids. Maybe volunteer with young offenders?

I think violent/sex offences do right off future careers but not so much other stuff once you have positive stuff to sell. You always declare all offences for DBS though (I think) - let the employer decide if you didn't need to rather than not disclose.

In reply to flopsicle:


Good idea.

In reply to winhill:


I'm pretty sure than an enhanced disclosure will find any record, no matter how long ago or if it's considered spent. The police deleting you from their database won't affect this.

And to be honest, any outdoor centre is going to ask for an enhanced disclosure, and is also likely to have so many applicants that they can just use this as an excuse to reduce their field. I'm not saying don't keep trying, but this might simply not be open to you.

In reply to SambucaHughes:

It is a sad fact that many offences are with you for life (depending on who asks the question) post Soham Enquiry. Many offences will be considered 'spent' but may still be disclosed, depending on the level of clearance required.

I really feel this is something that should be explained to teenagers, especially anyone wanting to work with young or vulnerable people. Drugs offences especially can affect many aspects of your life, including travel to many countries.

I know of an entire family that has put emigration plans on hold because their 17yo has now got a conviction that precludes them from entry to the country, literally weeks before they were due to leave.

Build up a CV if you can, find organisations that will take you on as a volunteer. Sadly you have given yourself an extra hurdle to cross and given a choice between two equal candidates any organisation will take the line of least resistance.

Good Luck

In reply to SambucaHughes:

Timpsons have a proven record of employing people with criminal records. It may not be the career path you are looking for but it could be a good way of getting on the ladder.

Best of luck.

In reply to SambucaHughes:

I had quite a colourful youth...

Had the enhanced DBS for scouts and it does show up everything!!

Didnt stop them with me though as last time I spoke with a policeman was 1997

Volunteer with the scouts, this will look good with any employer

You can do as little or as much as you want

In reply to SambucaHughes:

There are a few different issues here that people are (understandably) confused over.

For most minor offences there is a period after which the conviction is 'spent'. This means that it is illegal for an employer to ask about it, and it will not show up in some of the more basic kinds of record check. Roles with children, vulnerable adults and in other kinds of sensitive activity are exempted from the relevant legislation - they have to declare this on the advert. For these kinds of roles, they will perform an enhanced disclosure. An enhanced disclosure will show up everything that has ever gone onto your criminal record (including cautions) if the Police think it should be released (see below).

Separate to this is the question of 'stepping down' and/or of discretionary withholding of information by the Police. Stepping down is a process by which old conviction information is simply removed from the database. This happens to eg. very old convictions for shoplifting or possession. It's done by individual police forces as an administrative 'tidying up' measure. If this happens, there is no active record at all of the conviction. It will never show up anywhere (even if you went to court and were sentenced for a new crime), because the record has been buried. More recently, Police have been encouraged to filter the information that is disclosed, even for enhanced criminal records checks. They have to make a call on the relevance of a conviction. This is a bit more random, since forces can take different approaches from one another and even from case to case. They may decide that your cannabis conviction is not relevant for some positions, and in those cases it will simply not show up on your disclosure. The 'continuous update' system messes this up though - new convictions etc will still be obvious to the employer.

Finally, and to the OP - you will gather from the above that, in most cases, your offence is likely to appear for a good while yet when you apply for most posts that involve working with children. You have to hope that the folks doing recruitment have the knowledge and sense to assess the risk in a pragmatic way, and to go beyond a knee jerk reaction. It doesn't always happen. If you are under consideration for a post, remember that they will inevitably be doing some guesswork about the type of person you are. You may need to do more than other candidates to defeat the cannabis/druggy stereotype. It's a real pain, but remember that lots of people have cartoonish views, so appearing smart and organised, and talking about the need to be a clean-cut role model for your young clients will go some way to defeating people's prejudices.

Finally, I used to work doing various forms of vetting and licensing across the sport sector, which is where my knowledge comes from. I saw lots of panels in discussion on these issues, and saw how different factors affected the outcome. Convictions are not uncommon, and I would bet that outdoor centres must see lots of cannabis offences on disclosures. Unfortunately, it is very easy for them to take a completely risk averse view and just turn down the application. On the other hand, they are unlikely to be genuinely shocked or alarmed. As others have advised, any kind of work history can have a huge effect on cutting through the problem - showing a good record of hard work with a decent reference has huge value, as it allows the panel to convince themselves that they are not taking a gamble.

Good luck.
Mark

In reply to cfer:

I suspect the Scouts opinion on this may vary depending on the type of conviction?

It's very unusual to get convicted for cannabis these days, unless you are growing or dealing.

In reply to SambucaHughes:

Yes it would depend on whether it was possession or something else and whether it was a caution or more but generally if it was for possession of a small amount then I doubt they would look too badly upon it. It will be down to the district commissioners discretion and his view on it

In reply to SambucaHughes:

There's plenty of other countries in the world. Don't let the UK rules mess you up, go somewhere they don't apply for a few years and pick up some experience.

In reply to SambucaHughes:

Tom in Edinburgh's suggestion could be a good one?

In reply to lowersharpnose:


Great, they give you the job then at a later date find out..... P45's in the post.

Besides what job DOESN'T ask about conviction on the application?

In reply to SambucaHughes:

Just keep trying. Half the employers won't care when you tell them it was cannabis (the half that did the same thing) and half will so you'll have to apply to twice as many posts. Don't let it hold you back any more than it already has

In reply to SambucaHughes:

How certain are you that it is your criminal record that is stopping you getting the jobs you apply for? Is there a chance that there may have just been some more qualified or more suitable candidates? How many applications have you made where you think this has been a problem? I'd keep plugging away as I really doubt that this is a big issue for many employers, if you're the best person for the job.

In reply to SambucaHughes:

I've been there Sam with a similar offence, luckily mine expired after 5 years.

Persistence is the key, keep trying. I was living in London and looking for a job for 3 months, every day walking the streets handing in CVs and asking to speak to managers (always go direct). Eventually I got a job before in my 2nd week I was pulled aside and told that I was going to be sacked by the deputy manager because I had declared it (as you are legally obliged to do) luckily my manager came back the next day and argued with the head office that I should have another chance. He clearly saw beyond a bit of paper and he appreciated that I had been truthful throughout. He said as I have been told by others that I should have not declared it because no company will CRB check you unless it's for a more serious job.

I can't lie and so declared it every time until it expired which is heart breaking but will toughen your character and resolve to do the job. If you chose to be truthful its a hard road, apply to smaller companies, be open about it and be prepared to be challenged and rejected. Most people have made mistakes and a good manager should see past a record and offer you a chance to better yourself.

I now have a good job and have proved myself over and over in the army reserves (even though my first application was unsuccessful due to the CRB). It's a million miles away from where I was when I wrote a similar post years ago. Keep at it, keep applying, keep working.