In reply to AlanLittle:
> If you can imagine being "smasehd into the floor" by holding somebody roughly your own weight, plus or minus, normally minus quite a bit of friction, then you're probably underestimating the strength of your own legs.
Consider the worst case scenario - right on the edge of a crag with a completely flat top, anchors >5m back so basically providing no upwards pull at all, climber falls off overhanging wall just below the top so no friction other than that over the edge (which could be rounded). I know I can't squat my own weight (from when I did weights). I _might_ be able to hold someone's weight standing up, but if I don't hold it initially I am going to get pulled to the ground and it isn't going to be pretty. Plus if I'm not hard up against the anchors I am probably also going over the edge...
I see that if you were standing right back you might have a much easier time of it (since more of the force will be sideways rather than vertical, and you get more friction over the edge) - but I prefer to be able to see my climber (plus it's more fun when you get in their way at the top :P ). Is this what people are talking about?
I normally stand up on multipitch belays because a) I like high anchors and b) I like guide mode where possible (see point a). Sometimes this is not possible, because as everybody likes to point out most belays are different
If I am sitting at the edge I normally shuffle back a bit, tighten the clove hitches right up, then shuffle back to the edge taking as much slack out of possible. I also recognise that getting anchors in exactly the right direction is rare and quite often a bit of bracing can do the job just as well :P
PS my point about the belay loop was that I'm not addicted to rules and guidelines and quite happy to do what I like provided it is efficient and safe! e.g. not equalising every piece if they are close enough/bomber enough, no screwgates in a belay (if there are no single points of failure)...
Post edited at 15:42