UKH

Can anybody foresee any safety issues with making a hybrid harness using the swarmi belt and belay loop of one harness with the leg loops of a completely different brand of harness? (You would removing the leg loops from one harness by undoing the keeper strap [and rear elastic clips], and attach those to the belay loop of the second harness, after first stripping its original leg loops.)

I can't see any issues. As leg loops, swami belt, and belay loop are presumably all rated independently for strength, irrespective of the other bits of harness they are attached to.

Of course you need to be able to remove the leg loops you need without cutting anything, so they need to be ones with a buckle up keeper strap. Also harness rise and length of belay loop etc will have to be fairly well matched. But getting all that sorted...

...is there anything I could be missing? Both harnesses will be brand new.

Why? Fit: can't find a new harness that fits with the desired features. But components of several could work.

Manufacturers won't be allowed to give me answers, but I'm sure people on here will be able to find any holes, if there are any

Cheers

In reply to BruceM:

Sounds like an expensive plan. I'd keep shopping around or relax my requirements slightly, there'll be one out there that works well for you. Some features are pretty easy to add/remove.

Assuming you're not mixing buckles/tapes or winging it anywhere where you're not certain of what you're doing and why I can't see why it *couldn't* be done safely. It's really down to your judgement which you're best placed (on this thread at least) to assess.

jk

In reply to BruceM:

Its your own life you're risking so as long as you think it's safe.

I would mention it if someones wanting to borrow it though

In reply to BruceM:
When I bought my first harness in 1987 and for a few years after that it seemed to be possible to buy separate belt and leg loops to mix and match and that is how I got my first and then a spare harness for friends. I think Rock'n Run did that kind of thing as well - including separately bought accessory loops that slid on to the belt.

In reply to BruceM:

Should be ok. When I first started climbing my dad had some webbing belts we used around out waists and a set of separate leg loops. The leg loops were a non-essential luxury in my dad's opinion. (He was of the hemp rope around the waist era).
I still have the Troll leg-loops in my "Nostalgia box".

Andy

In reply to goose299:


Not if he belays anyone off it he isn't.

In reply to planetmarshall:

Fair point. I only thought about actually climbing

I probably wouldn't be comfortable with someone belaying me with that kind of harness

In reply to BruceM:

Can't see why it wouldn't be ok if you're careful about disassembly and, especially, reassembly.

Hell, I've climbed in a harness that was made of entirely of slings and one that was a proper waist belt with the leg loops made from a twisted sling. I've been belayed by a particularly large lady that had to use a sling to connect the relevant bits of a Whillans harness and that was fine.

As jkarran said, keep shopping around and/or change your requirements?

In reply to LastBoyScout:

I am also curious what requirements need to be fulfilled. I managed to find a harness with fixed leg loops and 5 gear loops which is suitable for trad (well, spent 2ish hours continuously hanging on the rope without swearing!) even if I very doubted that I will manage to find such harness.

Thanks folks for all your input. No, I can't see any issue -- long as all the bits are connected together as they were originally intended.

As for requirements, they are quite minimal really. Aside from being a do-it-all harness (alpine, trad, sport, scrambly, VF) with completely undoable leg and waist loops (and there are a few that would do that all that -- on paper) it just has to FIT me. And allow walking in without pain... The big names are all fairly similar in failing a few of those requirements. (And interestingly, they are all pretty similar in terms of sizing, so swapping brands doesn't give you much difference in terms of fit.) But I might be able to hack something together. Or at least have that as an option if a Plan A purchase doesn't work.

Cost isn't too big an issue, as harnesses aren't very expensive in the big scheme of things (anyone got a MTB?) and considering how long they last if you get it right.

Thanks again.

In reply to BruceM: Hi there, you have my sympathy, I have struggled massively over the years to find harnesses that fit really well.

In fact, at one stage I seriously considered a similar plan of buying two Petzl harnesses and swapping the leg loops over. In my cases I eeded the Small for the waist belt but the XSmall for the leg loops.

Out of interest, what is the main issue you have? Is is having slim thighs relative to your waist (as I do) or the exact opposite? Or is it issues with the rise height between waist and leg loops?

I finally found the fairly new Mammut Togir Light which met my requirements. However it is worth pointing out that although it only has 4 gear loops, it is dead easy (by design I presume) to add a 5th loop between the rear two loops using some 4mm cord and a bit of plastic tubing.

In reply to PPP:

I can't believe you'd list the perfect harness and then not tell us what it is.

In reply to Removed User:

It's Black Diamond Focus!

I don't think it's ideal for everyone, but ideal for me. The waist buckle is quite annoying, though. It's more difficult to release than Petzl ones.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

Yes. It is frustrating isn't it. Most modern harnesses don't have the expansion range of the old stuff (never had such problems for any previous harness 10-20 years ago).

One of my problems is rise for a given waist/leg diameter. Small sizes that fit legs and waist have too short a rise. Mediums cinched right up are a still bit loose for my liking. Also, even accepting the inappropriate rise, the smalls wouldn't have much extra room for winter expansion or for up in the real mountains. However, the other major major major problem is getting whacked in the goolies by leg loops of several major brands. Petzl's stupid triangle 3D fronts are obviously designed by girls, or boys with no balls. And BD and Mammut and many others build stiff leg loop pads with a relatively rigid-edged transition to tape on the inner side right where it hurts! You can sit and stand in these harnesses, but not walk.

One solution to the rise problem is to try to get fatter. But I have never been able to achieve that no matter how many whole chickens I have eaten (only occasionally of course, as I actually like chickens - alive!)

I can almost make a Medium DMM Renegade work (leg loops on DMM harnesses are old school and do not whack you in the nuts) with slightly sloppy legs if I minimally modify the harness by taking the tape out of the front waist elastic loops to allow cinching up more and just adding a bit of elastic a bit further back to stop the harness folding over when loaded with gear. But... there are other issues. And some other waist belts with features I prefer could work straight out of the box if you didn't use their legs. Hence the Plan B.

Anyway thanks to all.

In reply to Removed User:

What's the benefit of fixed leg-loops?

In reply to BruceM:

Used to tie the rope direct around the waist and make legloops with a twisted sling then clipped them together at the waist with a screwgate.
Then came the whillans harness

In reply to BruceM:


Women's harnesses generally have a longer rise (and larger leg loops relative to the waist band) although you might have to develop an appreciation of purple, pink and teal. My trad harness is a small size women's Wild County Elite Ziplock which has five gear loops, but I was lucky in that I managed to find a place with a couple of the old style orange and black ones left.

In reply to BruceM:

Have you looked at Metolius harnesses? Their leg buckles allow the rise to be adjusted.

http://www.metoliusclimbing.com/how-to-fit_a_harness.html

In reply to BruceM:

Am I mistaken in thinking that in this discussion, a major mitigating factor in shock absorption in this discussion is the body in the harness?

By the time the components in the harness fail, there will be some critical/fatal injury caused to the person involved.

I think we may be 'overthinking ' this one a wee bit, as an 'old schooler'

ATB

Adrian

In reply to BigBrother:



Thanks on behalf of my other half for posting this! She's been looking for a longer rise harness for years but the womens ones from other brands still come up short, so maybe Metolius could be the answer... we'd also been contemplating a custom-job too, but didn't have the time or expertise.

In reply to BruceM:

Thanks for the Metolius suggestion. I know about them and they are about the only brand I haven't been able to see in the flesh. But, for me, I have pretty much decided against the geographical effort of testing one based on their construction style and a few reviews. They never used to be that comfortable, but were always tiny and light. They seem to have lost the tiny bit along the years.

And yes, womans are subtly different in ratio of rise vs size, but when you try them all on, it is quite subtle. As for colours... My girl says: why do womens things always have to be called womens things and have stupid colours and patterns on them? Harnesses, helmets, shoes, bikes...they should just make shoes or whatever of diff lengths/width/volumes/colours and call them that. But of course, that isn't what marketing is about. We have just bought a new "mens" harness for her

Anyway, after some more testing, I'm now settling on a DMM variant, for the leg loops (which don't hurt me), with the backup plan of replacing the belay loop and waist from another brand if I can't make the DMM's rise/waist work for me.


Cheers, but I don't think people here are not aware of that. (Except maybe one poster up there at the start. And that person has a good point and is making a good call in not trusting something that he/she doesn't understand and which together is not officially certified via some standard. That's what standards are for...) But yeah, we all know that harness bits are all rated beyond what we could tolerate. I guess I posted this because, these days, doing this sort of modification is now a bit unconventional. Being the most critical bit of the safety system, I thought the concept needs examination by a few more experienced punters other than just me. UKC is a good place to get some good discussion going about systems and techniques. If there is a hole, I'm sure someone will spot it

In summary though it seems there is no real issue with this kind of modification. Long as assembly is correct. Disclaimer: if you don't know what you are doing, don't try this at home!

Thanks all.