UKH

Just bought a pair of mammut monolith gtx for overall mountain/winter/alpine walking.. they have a Velours leather and textile uppers, the GORE-TEX lining gives waterproof, breathable protection... so do I need to proof them before venturing out?

Thanks, Tony

In reply to Tony the Blade:
Hi Tony

It's not going to do any harm and will give them a great start.

I normally proof my new boots.

HTH Davey

PS go outdoors have 50% off nikiwax products

In reply to Tony the Blade:

I'd say the opposite. With a textile upper the waterproofing depends entirely on the Goretex membrane. Proofing will just make them heavier.

In reply to Tony the Blade:

No, with gortex lining I believe there is no need to proof them, this may even have an adverse effect and compromise the breathability.

If in doubt contact Mammut for advice.

In reply to Tony the Blade:
The advice booklet that came with my Meindl boots recomends regular treatment with sport wax to keep the leather in good condition and stop the leather from cracking.
Meindel state that "Boots are made chiefly of leather. They therefore require regular “nutrition” so that they last for a long time and keep their shape".

In reply to Tony the Blade:

Use the appropriate nikwax product. Using a heavy Dubbin is a bad idea, especially caking it on. You often see people rubbing extra dubbin into their seams thinking it will make their boots waterproof. In fact it softens the leather allowing the sticking to elongate the needle holes and letting water in. Water based nixwax penerates the leather without softening the leather and does not click the pores of the leather... That's my other pet peeve... Dubbin on gore tex boots just means you've wasted money buying goretex.

In reply to BnB:

If applying a miniscule amount of proofing to the boot prevents the boot soaking up a lot of water, the net effect will be boots much lighter than those saturated with water...

In reply to Tony the Blade:

I use Meindl Sport Wax and Meindl Wet Proof spray on all leather boots only. Seems to work, I've had my Nepal Pros since 1998. Had to replace the soles alright but the uppers are fine!
Unsure what to do with a mixed upper though.

In reply to captain paranoia:

Possibly so, but you'll reduce the breathability (what there is with a goretex membrane) and the boot still won't be waterproof once the membrane fails, which it will eventually.

In reply to BnB:
I'm not concerned about the breathability of a boot with a Gore-tex membrane; it's going to be sweaty. I am concerned with how much water soaks into the upper, making the boot heavy. And, just like a waterproof jacket that has wetted out, a boot that has absorbed a continuous layer of water won't breathe. Using a proofing treatment will significantly reduce the amount of water absorbed.

Non-membraned leather boots have been adequately waterproof for hundreds of years, when treated with waxes*. Membraned boots are a marketing abberation IMHO, given how fragile the membrane is.

* subject to the limitation of having a damned great hole in the top...

In reply to captain paranoia:

There's a lot of ill feeling on UKC towards Goretex boots and I simply don't get it. Perhaps I just don't have sweaty feet. My approach/running shoes, my summer boots and my winter B3s, all of them are Goretex and extremely light and comfortable (even the winter ones). Each to their own but I 'm happy for mine to be zero maintenance until they fail, which is usually the sole collapsing before the waterproofing goes (Skye gabbro). Then it's time for a new pair as the cost of resoling is not much less than a well-timed bargain purchase.

In reply to BnB:


I don't think it's confined to UKC; you'll see the same discussion on any outdoor forum.


Indeed, and I have no argument with that; people are different. The problem is that membranes seem to have dominated the market, to the detriment of those who don't like them.

In reply to BnB:
I do wonder if Goretex in boots just provides a waterproof layer with in practice little or or no breathability. If the membrane remains intact it can still provide relatively maintenance free and perfect waterproofing. However wouldn't it be as good, much cheaper and possibly tougher to simply have a non-breathable layer.
I used to use plastic bags bags inside leather boots, which was much better and warmer than having penetrating cold water. Not quite the same but skiers and some climbers seem happy enough in plastic shell boots.

In reply to Tony the Blade:

Thanks for all the comments, however I feel like I'm none the wiser.

I'll get in touch with Mammut instead.

In reply to Tony the Blade:
I've never proofed new boots, only after I've been out in them a few times and they start looking like they need it.
It never seems to have done them any harm. Just keep them clean and dry out slowly.


Just to add, I only ever wear Scarpas and use their HS12 cream.

In reply to Tony the Blade:

unless its cold, goretex won't 'breathe' as it needs a difference (between inside and out) in temperature and humidity for it to work. boots don't need to be proofed if they're brand new- they are done in the factory. when the outer material starts to soak up water, reproof them then. if they're leather- use a wax, if they're synthetic- use one of the grangers reproofing products. hope this helps

In reply to tom84:


I can see how a 'hot to cold' can encourage migration of moisture but if something is porous it's porous so I don't see how that it can be the case that it doesn't work in warmer temps

A reply from those good people at Mammut...

Thank you for getting in contact.
Your boots are ready to go when you buy them. Putting some proofing on them before you use them will not hurt them but it is not a requirement.
The most important part is the care for your boots after once they are in use. Cleaning them and letting the boots dry naturally after will increase the life of the boots.
I am sure you already know this but I have sent some info on the care of boots for you to see.

I hope this is helpful
Best regards
Mammut UK


1) Cleaning


· Remove the insole and check for small stones and other foreign objects that could cause a rub point and damage the membrane

· Remove any stones that might be stuck in the lugs on the sole of the boot

· Use a brush to remove any dirt, or brush the shoe under running water to remove persistent soiling

· Leather cleaning products are not recommended since the soap damages the waterproofing treatment

· After cleaning the shoes, rub in the appropriate wax or silicone-based care products or polish them using a soft brush

· Dry leather needs nutrients in the form of wax (no grease or oil). Apply a very thin layer and then work into the leather

· The application of wax makes nubuk or velours leather appear darker and smoother. Liquid care products maintain the leather's original appearance for longer, but provide fewer nutrients

· The best way to clean the lining (textile, GORE-TEX® and leather) is using lots of cold water and a technical wash. This will help to unclog the membrane pores and freshen the boots themselves.


2) Proofing

· A waterproofing treatment should be applied regularly to footwear.

· Waterproofing is important to keep your feet dry. Leather or textiles saturated with dirt and water are no longer able to breathe, resulting in increased perspiration.

· A conditioning proofing agent will also help to keep leather on the footwear supple and avoid it drying out and cracking.

· There are a number of good quality proofing and conditioning products on the market. Please ensure you read the instructions on the product before application as the instructions can differ slightly.

In reply to Tony the Blade:


Thanks - some proper Swiss thoroughness there

In reply to Tony the Blade:

I can't speak to the Goretex issue, but I remember that the first pairs of mountain boots that Gordon and I had in 1966 were sold to us with tins of dubbin, which we enthusiastically applied. When we got to the Swiss Alps, the guides in Zermatt told us that dubbin was the worst possible thing to apply to leather boots because it made the leather too soft. The guides all had very old boots in surprisingly good condition and they said that ordinary shoe polish was the thing to use. Our over-dubbined boots indeed wore out very fast and the stitching even pulled slightly. I have used ordinary shoe polish on leather boots ever since.

In reply to Tony the Blade:

Glad to see Mammut's advice tallies with mine...

In reply to captain paranoia:

Manufacturers tend to prescribe the most rigorous care regimes in order to limit their liabilities in the event of gear failure, not because they wish their gear to last longer. That's business.

In reply to BnB:

Not sure that is the case here though.

In reply to DubyaJamesDubya:

Dissecting the reply from Mammut they firstly state in respect of the actual boots in question:

"Putting some proofing on them before you use them will not hurt them but it is not a requirement." So that's pretty clear then isn't it? There is no point in proofing them.

The advice they then churn out is generic "some info on the care of boots" rather than specific and, from the text, aimed primarily at boots whose waterproofing relies on characteristics other than a membrane.

I'm simply not convinced that anyone should waste time proofing a membraned boot. The construction of lightweight boots is such that something else will fail before the membrane does.

Unless you enjoy proofing, which I could gear-geekily understand.

In reply to Tony the Blade:

Re 'sweaty feet'.

Perhaps some of this is down to the individual? I've owned and used plastic koflach boots for some years and now own goretex boots. Neither were 'sweaty' on my feet. Nor are any other of my boots really.

In reply to BnB:






Well I suppose I had in mind the leather/suede type finishes that lined boots often have these days. While it may have no bearing on water ingress it might extend the life of the leather (cracking?) to apply some sort wax or similar product. The other thought is that the boots I have are far from light weight and I could envisage the liner going with the boots having a lot of wear left, in which case, I would consider proofing them rather than binning them.

In reply to Dave Perry:



Definitely. I'm quite lucky too in that regard.