PRODUCT NEWS: Wild Country launch new Superlight Offset Rocks

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 UKC Gear 13 Mar 2015
Superlight Offfset Rocks , 3 kb

Wild Country launch Superlight Offset Rocks. Simple, yet incredibly effective, they combine the proven curve of Rocks with a radical side taper that adds a new dimension to protection.

Simple, yet incredibly effective, they combine the proven curve of Rocks with a radical side taper that adds a new dimension to protection. - See more at: http://www.wildcountry.com/en/superlight-offset-rocks#sthash.oLl1OU5a.dpuf
Simple, yet incredibly effective, they combine the proven curve of Rocks with a radical side taper that adds a new dimension to protection. - See more at: http://www.wildcountry.com/en/superlight-offset-rocks#sthash.oLl1OU5a.dpuf
Simple, yet incredibly effective, they combine the proven curve of Rocks with a radical side taper that adds a new dimension to protection. - See more at: http://www.wildcountry.com/en/superlight-offset-rocks#sthash.oLl1OU5a.dpuf
Simple, yet incredibly effective, they combine the proven curve of Rocks with a radical side taper that adds a new dimension to protection. - See more at: http://www.wildcountry.com/en/superlight-offset-rocks#sthash.oLl1OU5a.dpuf

 



Read more at http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/news.php?id=6990
 TobyA 13 Mar 2015
In reply to UKC Gear:

Is no one else sadly geeky enough to think these could be really cool? As a 20 year+ fan of HB and then DMM Offsets, these WC ones look like they might fit in all the same places as the DMM ones but weigh less.
 jezb1 13 Mar 2015
In reply to TobyA:

No use if you've got to send them back for a recall though....

I'll be sticking with my DMM offsets.
 Stevie989 13 Mar 2015
In reply to TobyA:

They look awesome. Picked some up today, proper light.
 lithos 13 Mar 2015
In reply to TobyA:

pah i see your geeky and refer you to my post on the WC advert post for the krabs

and why the recall comment Jezb1 ?
 jezb1 13 Mar 2015
In reply to lithos:

Just a tongue in cheek reference to their faff of a recall last year :p
 Timmd 13 Mar 2015
In reply to TobyA:
> Is no one else sadly geeky enough to think these could be really cool? As a 20 year+ fan of HB and then DMM Offsets, these WC ones look like they might fit in all the same places as the DMM ones but weigh less.

I was being geeky and thinking that they don't have two tapers on them like the old HB and current DMM ones do.

They remind me of Wallnuts now they taper from 'bottom to top'.
Post edited at 18:09
 Rick Graham 13 Mar 2015
In reply to UKC Gear:

What about size 1 to 4?

They were, by far, the most useful sizes in the old range of 1 to 6 ( single wire type).
 Sharp 13 Mar 2015
In reply to UKC Gear:

> "...all that’s missing from these slimline superstars is weight"

nice
 PPP 13 Mar 2015
In reply to UKC Gear:

Maybe they are the lightest, but all nuts but one are almost half the strength of DMM Offsets (7kN vs 12kN). Not sure how much relevant it is as 7kN is strong enough, but even some micros (like Brass Offsets) are rated at 7-10kN.

Of course, there is a compromise between lighter vs durable/stronger.
 Oli 13 Mar 2015
In reply to Rick Graham:

My thoughts exactly. The old, single wire versions were great for small placements with an odd shape; far more useful than these larger sizes.
In reply to TobyA:
> Is no one else sadly geeky enough to think these could be really cool? As a 20 year+ fan of HB and then DMM Offsets, these WC ones look like they might fit in all the same places as the DMM ones but weigh less.

Yes. Exactly my thoughts. It is pretty much guaranteed that I'll buy a set (although if I don't like them I'd quickly flogg them on).

I'm a big fan of the WC Superlights but only in sizes 4,5&6. The smaller ones never really convinced me.

Another thought is that they might be great for a scrambling rack or for a light alpine rack. Anyway I'll give them a go and as they say "the proof of the pudding is in the eating".

As far as the strength rating goes, I am relaxed about that. I'll always be happy to take gear that fits well over stronger gear that doesn't fit.

 BnB 14 Mar 2015
In reply to TobyA:

I've been waiting for these to come out since I saw the video back in Autumn. I reckon a set of these and the smaller Superlight Rocks paired with a full set of Wallnuts should pretty much answer any UK cragging needs (at my moderate level). And for such a low combined weight. Order has been placed today.
 Tom F Harding 15 Mar 2015
They have finally arrived! Going to add a the larger ones to my superlight's and wallnuts to give me a nice light double set. Nice one Wild Country - been a while since I wanted to buy any of your kit.
 David Ponting 16 Mar 2015
In reply to Timmd:

Agreed; the tapers look distinctly different to the DMM (I'm too recent a climber to have come across the HB ones); I think they might fit into a completely different set of annoying cracks, rather than duplicating the DMM ones. I'll certainly be picking some up and trying them (though to dislodge any part of my current wallnuts/peanuts/alloy offsets setup will take some doing...)

It'll be interesting to see how people find these fit with the current options, longer-term, but variety is always good!
 flaneur 16 Mar 2015
In reply to UKC Gear or Wild Country:

Where are these made?

 timmeehhhh 16 Mar 2015
In reply to UKC Gear:

I still need to complete my current set of DMM offset nuts, I have the 3 smaller sizes, and they are the only nuts I place on alpine routes. The two biggest sizes (#10 and 11) are heavier (and 5kn stronger) than the corresponding colored WC offsets... I wonder which option will have the most placement versatility.
 Tom F Harding 16 Mar 2015
In reply to UKC Gear:

4 largest size ordered and I'm looking forward to adding them to my superlights and taking them for a spin. One thing that is quite interesting though is there relatively low strength compared to other nuts of the same size. It mentions that they feature a thinner cable but it would be good to hear from WC what the expected failure mode is and why the strength could not be higher.
 Wild Country 17 Mar 2015
In reply to TobyA:

Toby - spot on - and more places because they have the original Wild Country 'Rocks' curve...which means they can be used exactly as a Rock as well as an Offset...
For me this is the key, as unlike other offsets this curved side means you are not buying something 'funky' which takes time to get used to - but more like a rock with a 'bonus'. Simples!
 Wild Country 17 Mar 2015
In reply to Timmd:

Tim, Rocks have actaully tapered for years now, these taper top to bottom and inside to out - less offset faces but more easily utilisable faces!!
 Wild Country 17 Mar 2015
In reply to PPP: I think you know you've kind of answered your own question.
For us it was a simple choice to have them stronger or have them lighter. It is very tricky to do both. We chose to go for weight and put the same wire as a number 1 Rock across the nuts except for the biggest. And remember these are still 3 Sigma rated and the same as a 1 Rock (also 7kN) and people are very happy with those.
Interesting even with the Superlight Rocks which have a single wire we have had very few problems. However, it also seems to me that people take a mature approach to this and know that if they buy light to make sure they check it and they seem to understand it may have slightly less longevity.
I would say for now these will not be the first set for beginners but are a perfect second set and a first set for more experienced climbers.
I personally think that once they've been used a bit they will become the norm - as, like we say in the advert - there's nothing missing except weight!
 Timmd 17 Mar 2015
In reply to Richie Patterson, Wild Country:

Thanks, that's interesting to know. Perhaps it's time to upgrade.
 Wild Country 17 Mar 2015
In reply to Rick Graham:

Rick, at these sizes 1-4 you have Superlights and as at these smaller sizes we can only get a single wire through the nut once we have made it Offset (it loses quite a bit of width), we decided to start at 5 and see how they went.
Also Superlights are still there and the two sets together make a great combination...
Who knows maybe we'll make some single wire Superlight Offsets...
 Wild Country 17 Mar 2015
In reply to Oli:

Wait til you try them...you'll be surprised how often you flip them and place as an offset...they are really useful!!
 beardy mike 17 Mar 2015
In reply to Richie Patterson, Wild Country:



> Who knows maybe we'll make some single wire Superlight Offsets...

Do it. You know it makes sense.
 Rick Graham 17 Mar 2015
In reply to Richie Patterson, Wild Country:

> Rick, at these sizes 1-4 you have Superlights and as at these smaller sizes we can only get a single wire through the nut once we have made it Offset (it loses quite a bit of width), we decided to start at 5 and see how they went.

> Also Superlights are still there and the two sets together make a great combination...

> Who knows maybe we'll make some single wire Superlight Offsets...

So for clarity,

The original single wire superlights are still made in sizes 1-6 ?

(The new superlight offset are in sizes 5 - 10 )
 Wild Country 17 Mar 2015
In reply to Rick Graham:

Rick, yes...perfect - a good overlap between the two...try them I think you'll be impressed...
 Wild Country 17 Mar 2015
In reply to jezb1:

Go and pick up a set then pick up your DMM ones and see if you keep the same opinion...it's not like we're the only outdoor company to have a recall: Petzl gri Gri, DMM Dragons etc etc
 Wild Country 17 Mar 2015
In reply to Tom F Harding:

As i say above. We chose Rock 1 cable...and it's that which will fail. That wire thickness only makes 7kN.
 jezb1 17 Mar 2015
In reply to Richie Patterson, Wild Country:

This is a genuine question that I do not know the answer to, not trying to be bitchy, just interested.

Are they made in the UK?
 pacman 17 Mar 2015
In reply to Richie Patterson, Wild Country:

What exactly is the weight saving you've made by choosing the thinner wire then?

Wouldn't a set of these with Rock 2 wire still have been lighter than DMM's offsets? I'm a big fan of lightweight gear but for wires of this size it seems a little bit silly not to have them rated at more than 7kN for the sake of X (not many?) grams.

No doubt 7kN is enough but given the choice I'd always place a Rock 2 rather than a Rock 1 and I think I'd rather have a stronger grey DMM offset than a weaker and negligibly lighter grey Superlight.

All down to personal preferences I guess but to me it looks as though you've brought out a great product that could have been ever better.
 flaneur 17 Mar 2015

In reply to Richie Patterson, Wild Country:

> ...it's not like we're the only outdoor company to have a recall: Petzl gri Gri, DMM Dragons etc etc

Both are rather complex with several moving parts, so orders of magnitude more likely to suffer from unanticipated failures. Passive protection like Rocks are fundamentally very simple with much less likely to go wrong: an alloy wedge with a swaged steel cable. 10 000s of these have been produced since the early 70s with no previous issues to my knowledge but you had problems not long after moving the manufacturing to China. Given product inconsistency in Chinese manufacturing is well documented, is it any wonder people are interested where such a potentially safety-critical item is manufactured? I'm not too concerned if my Chinese anorak seam starts coming undone, I can always take it back to the shop. I'm very concerned that the swage on the wire between me and the deck might not be utterly trustworthy.


 allarms 18 Mar 2015
I don't care if they made them in china or Buckingham Palace. They are 3 sigma rated to the required standard which is as good a test as you can hope for to minimise chance of a recall.

To those scared of the thin wire; think of how single ropes have gotten thinner and how even though some people resit those, they have become the norm.

I trust 7kn to hold me just fine.

If was looking for a second set of wires to take, I would choose these not DMM Offsets, because when I'm taking a rack that big being lighter is priority.

I had a fondle in Outside and I'm looking forward to getting a set when I can.
 Wild Country 18 Mar 2015
In reply to jezb1:
Jez, no they are not made in the UK. And I have no problem in stating that. As a company we manufacture products in various locations and China is one of those. Also you should not be worried about asking, and I don't take it the wrong way. If location of manufacture is one of your priorities when buying gear then you should always enquire. We have chosen where we make things and we are not going to try to hide it.
Post edited at 07:23
 AlH 18 Mar 2015
In reply to Richie Patterson, Wild Country:

Look and feel awesome. I'll be buying a set. Their strength is fine and just part of the balance we always strike between weight and robustness. And they are made buy a company I trust. I found a potential problem with a piece of WC kit. I reported it, they investigated the issue and did something about it. I personally don't expect perfection but their reaction was good, prompt and showed me a company who cared about providing good gear to their customers in an honest fashion.
 Wild Country 18 Mar 2015
In reply to pacman:
Pacman, the difference is not negligible - it's about 8/9gms a unit - and in terms of a % it equates to an increase of between 25% and up to about 40% for each nut. And as all the nuts have 520mm of wire (except the 10 (535mm)) the increase is disproportionately biased against the smaller sizes. Just roughly doing the figures a no. 5 goes from about 21 to 30gms - an increase of about 40%. And over a set the difference would be approx 5 x 9gms about 45gms increase on the current set weight of 162ish...basically a 25% increase.

And yes a set of these would have been lighter than DMM's even with the thicker wire (the smaller sizes would probably have been very similar). But you must bear in mind how much lighter these are at the moment - a set of SLORs with 6 sizes is about 18% lighter than DMM with 5 sizes - this is exceptionally light kit. And it also has to be borne in mind that the fact is that because of the size of the nuts it would have been much more difficult to make the two smallest sizes with the thicker wire.

Again I cannot tell you, or anyone, what to buy or to use I depends what your priority is. Mine would be weight on a long trad route (as long as the strength is up to a standard that is acceptable) and for me 7kN is plenty. Most biners for years and years have been 7kN gate open and everyone uses biners all day every day without worry. And nearly all micro nuts are way less than 7kn but it doesn't stop people carrying RPs.

For me the kicker is that you state that the product would be much better stronger and heavier - I don't agree and Wild Country didn't agree in this case. We decided to go ahead and produce the lightest set of nuts available (and truth be told had a lot of debate about this subject) because in the end it felt right to go that way.

Someone has to break the mould and decide to push in ways that not everyone will, it's now for the public to decide if we were correct.
 john arran 18 Mar 2015
In reply to Richie Patterson, Wild Country:

I once had a set of the first ever Wild Country Micro-Rocks - the curved ones. The wire was so thick there was hardly any taper left for the nut and there was hardly any flexibility in the wire as well, so they were all but useless in practice. A well-intentioned idea to make the wire as strong as possible ended up ruining the whole product.
I agree that 7kN sounds great and I'd be very surprised if (m)any started breaking like used to be the case with other micros.
 Wild Country 18 Mar 2015
In reply to john arran:

John, thanks for that comment and like you I could list a load of small nuts that were ruined by thick wires. A nut's no good if it's strong but doesn't place well.
 Wild Country 18 Mar 2015
In reply to flaneur:
Flaneur, thanks for the comment. And as I have already replied people have every right to look at where things are made. And without going into too much detail the Rocks recall was obviously an error and obviously embarrassing and something which was not acceptable.

However, as you can well imagine our processes have been overhauled and we have implemented stricter controls. So as part of what we do we proof load every nut to 3.5kN and we test to 3 Sigma and we also load a second time to 2kN. We also have smaller batch sizes and larger destruction test amounts per batch. We now feel that the process is more robust, tighter and the chance of error is a small as it could be anywhere - or we would not be proceeding.

As a final note you may well be concerned if your anorak split if you were on the top of the Ben in a whiteout! By which I mean any failure in any outdoor goods which can be considered safety critical is not acceptable, so as manufacturers we must always look at our processes and make sure things are correct!
Post edited at 09:55
 Robin Woodward 18 Mar 2015
In reply to UKC Gear:

Got a set of these with the smaller superlights (except size 4 which seems to be out of stock everywhere, so slipped in a crag swag anodised rock to complete the set) last week and tried them out at the weekend on a couple of limestone routes. I went for the plunge as I needed a new set of nuts (fed up of my battered classic rocks all looking the same when I'm pumped), and find generally I place my DMM offsets first 90% of the time, so liked the idea of having a double rack of offsets and also having 'standard' nut placement options (which I often find better in the larger sizes).

They worked great as offsets, but I either didn't find placements which worked better the curved way, or couldn't get the offset nature out of my head as didn't manage to place any like a standard rock.

If you haven't held these they really are SUPERlight, couldn't believe it. Also didn't believe that they actually covered the same placement size range as my old classic rocks until I held them against each other. The reduction in weight between either a size 10 classic rock and a size 10 superlight offset or equivalent sized DMM and WC offsets is fairly staggering. In fact when I racked up the new offset nuts I started adding other random nuts to the 'biner as I worried it was a waste of a 'biner having such little weight on it... managed to stop myself mostly.
 pacman 18 Mar 2015
In reply to Richie Patterson, Wild Country:

Thanks for the detailed reply Richie; that's a surprisingly big difference in the wire weights, decision to go with 7kN now makes more sense.

"Mine would be weight on a long trad route (as long as the strength is up to a standard that is acceptable) and for me 7kN is plenty. Most biners for years and years have been 7kN gate open and everyone uses biners all day every day without worry."

My first choice biners are Phantoms or Heliums due to their hooded nose and/or higher gate open strength, and second choice are wire gates rated at 7kN but with hooded noses (e.g. Xenon Lite). I'll use standard 7kN gate open biners if needs be but given the choice I'd rather not.

"And nearly all micro nuts are way less than 7kn but it doesn't stop people carrying RPs."

No it doesn't, but the sub 7kN rating on most RPs is not a matter a choice as it is with bigger gear like the SLORs.

"For me the kicker is that you state that the product would be much better stronger and heavier - I don't agree and Wild Country didn't agree in this case. We decided to go ahead and produce the lightest set of nuts available (and truth be told had a lot of debate about this subject) because in the end it felt right to go that way. Someone has to break the mould and decide to push in ways that not everyone will, it's now for the public to decide if we were correct."

I didn't state that they'd be much better stronger and heavier, I said that it seemed to me that a stronger and negligibly heavier version of a great product would have been even better. Now you've supplied the figures I can see that's not really possible and decision to go with 7kN makes sense. So good on you for coming up with these, I'm sure they'll sell well and deservedly so.
 jezb1 18 Mar 2015
In reply to UKC Gear:

It's says a lot about a company when they take the time to answer questions on a forum, good effort!

My question re. manufacturing wasn't because I don't trust foreign made kit, far from it, but I would rather buy local if I can.
 BnB 20 Mar 2015
In reply to Richie Patterson, Wild Country:

Richie

Mine arrived today and they're going straight on the rack with the superlight (standard) wires next to a set of wallnuts for grit and DMM offsets for Rhyolite. On the former, it's like two sets of standard wires but with an offset option, on the latter it's vice versa.

One question: why stop at gold? Why not go green or higher? Surely the benefits of the weight saving are felt even more in the larger sizes?
 Wild Country 21 Mar 2015
In reply to BnB: You are right the benefits extend across all the sizes. And we were going to go bigger to start with but we wanted to make sure that we had the product spot on. Also we wanted to make sure we could offer an initial set that was a neat size for people to buy in one hit. But don't worry we have next ones ready!!! Perfect alpine tackle!
 BnB 21 Mar 2015
In reply to Richie Patterson, Wild Country:

That's good to hear Richie. Rearranging my rack last night I did realise that I often place the larger size wires in the wider flared configuration, rather than the curved profile, and that the superlights, being slimmer, don't offer the same width in the flared, offset position as a standard wire.

That isn't a criticism, just an observation that, rotated, the offset superlights tend to mimic a DMM offset of "smaller" colour rather than filling an even bigger gap, like a rotated wire. In essence, the six cover the same range as the DMM alloy offsets, with the larger superlights a good two "colours" smaller, the red and blue one size smaller, and the gunmetal a size and shape of its own. Having developed a perfect eye for DMM offset slot sizes, it looks like I'll need to recalibrate my mental colour chart.

Apologies for the nerd attack. Suffice to say I'd be delighted to be able to pick up superlights up to size 14 and beyond. They'd make great Alpine or winter kit, as you suggest. This winter I was repeatedly placing DMM offsets and larger torque nuts. Large superlights would be lighter, quieter and offer a broader range of placements. When might they come out?


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