New Pile Pertex Jacket...which one?

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 Goofyfoot 02 Mar 2015
OK, I'm looking to finally try a pile/pertex type jacket - I've got sick of getting sweaty & cold in the winter!

Gonna be using it for hill walking autumn - spring in the UK, probably team it up with a synthetic belay jacket on stops & ridge walks if it gets real cold, also want to use it for cragging & bouldering.

Don't know which one to go for - either the classic Buffalo shirts, or a Rab Vapour rise guide jacket - the Montane extreme smock looks way to warm for most conditions, trying to get the balance between good warmth and very good breathability is key for me.

Any advice, or anyone who's used or owns the above bits of kit or could recommend something else - I would welcome your opinions!

Cheers guys.
 IPPurewater 02 Mar 2015
In reply to Goofyfoot:
I have a Montane Extreme smock. It is warm.

If I was buying again, I would just get a lightweight Pertex windproof to go over an existing thermal and/or fleece combination, as this is more versatile and gives you a better choice of warmth.
Post edited at 10:58
 aldo56 02 Mar 2015
In reply to Goofyfoot:

I had a VR Guide and hated it. Too warm for walking up hill then gets cut in half by a cold wind. I now have a VR Alpine Lite and it's excellent, pretty much never take it off in the hills, I just layer over it with a soft shell, belay jacket or harshell as required.
 Euge 02 Mar 2015
In reply to Goofyfoot:

I have a Mardale and it is fantastic, but cannot get them anymore, but I think snugpak do a similar.
I found the Montane too warm and heavy.
Go for a Buffalo...

Cheers
Euge
OP Goofyfoot 02 Mar 2015
In reply to Euge:

What's the difference between the mountain shirt and the special 6?
 thedatastream 02 Mar 2015
In reply to Goofyfoot:

Length in the body - the Special 6 is longer. I use a mountain shirt in combination with salopettes so I'm not too worried about the length. If I was using it on it's own I'd probably go for a Special 6. Buffalo tops are good, hoods and cut can let them down slightly but I would buy another when mine goes.
OP Goofyfoot 02 Mar 2015
In reply to thedatastream:
Whats the issue with the hoods & cut? does the special 6 use fleece instead of fibre pile?
 CurlyStevo 02 Mar 2015
In reply to Goofyfoot:
IMO pile and pertex especially the montane offering is the best way to experience the sweat and then cold thing in winter! The problem is they are no wear near as breathable as a stretchy soft shell jacket and you don't have layers to adjust. No amount of undoing vents will actually cool you off as much as walking in with a base layer and some or no combination of the rest of your top layers. I also think it's very bulky and quite heavy for the warmth it provides.

You are better with a primalot soft shell (hard / non stretchy but quite breathable) belay jacket to chuck on top of everything when stopped for any amount of time and gerneally wearing a layering system you can adjust based on base layers, fleece and stretchy soft shell underneath.

Another thing to consider is that (comparing like with like) non stretchy soft shell scuffs and tears much more easily than stretchy soft shell, and it's more pleasurable and easy to move in stretchy softshell too for things like climbing etc, I also find stretchy soft shell breathes a lot better and lets you dry out quite quickly if damp underneath, whilst non stretchy soft shell is not nearly as good in this regard.
Post edited at 13:08
 thedatastream 02 Mar 2015
In reply to Goofyfoot:

More of a personal thing. I'd prefer another two inches in length on the salopettes legs and maybe another inch on the sleeves. with a trimmer fit around the middle. I'm just tall and skinny.

And, because I have a big 'ead, the Expedition hood doesn't fit me terribly well when I have a helmet on as well.

Minor complaints really, its still ace gear and deals with sweat/light rain brilliantly
OP Goofyfoot 02 Mar 2015
In reply to Goofyfoot:

Does anybody have an opinion on the RAB Vapour Rise Guide jacket? to warm? just right? breathable enough? is there enough ventilation?
 aldo56 02 Mar 2015
In reply to Goofyfoot:

See my comment above. I get along much better with the VR lite but I would assume the standard VR would be better as a stand alone item.
In reply to Goofyfoot:

I use the Vapour Rise guide as a Winter climbing softshell and I think it's ace! But you'd be a fool to wear it walking into a crag though. For walking in I wear a synthetic baselayer and windshell. They come off at the base of the crag and are replaced with nice warm and dry powedry baselayer, Rab Vapour Rise Guide and a hard shell if it's minging.

The VR guide is normally about right for Winter climbing without an additional shell layer if it's not too windy or snowing hard. It vents as well as anything with a full front zip and the pit zips do work.
 CurlyStevo 02 Mar 2015
In reply to Goofyfoot:

I'd get an uninsulated and stretchy soft shell coupled with a micro fleece myself.
OP Goofyfoot 02 Mar 2015
In reply to highaltitudebarista:

I was under the impression the VR guide jacket would be an alternative to the Buffalo - would you just find way to warm for hill walking in autumn to spring - uk conditions?
 CurlyStevo 02 Mar 2015
In reply to Goofyfoot:

Can't speak for the VR but the montane smock was too warm for anything except belaying - when all the sweat I'd accumulated being too hot evapourated and made me freeze, tried it for 1-2 seasons and then happily binned it for better kit!
 aldo56 02 Mar 2015
In reply to Goofyfoot:

I found it too warm for asscending (easily solved by not wearing it going up hills as stated above) but the main problem for me was it didn't provide enough wind protection. I've ended up with a VR lite I wear on the walk-in and layer over it with a Rab Exodus (non membrane soft shell) or a Gore active shell if it's horrible.

The VR lite is more versatile as you can chose whether to wear a fleece under it or not depending on temps. The fleece is sewn into the guide and so you can't take it out.
In reply to Goofyfoot:

For hillwalking, you want multiple thinner layers which you can adjust as the day goes on. You're going to boil to death in a Buffalo/Montane Extreme and be sweaty and uncomfortable in a Rab VR Guide.
 cousin nick 02 Mar 2015
In reply to Goofyfoot:

Here is another option - overlayering.
This is the concept promoted by Paramo (though they were probably not the first to think of it).
It works for me, but not everyone likes it.
Basically I'll wear a long sleeved base layer and a Paramo smock. Paramo smocks are waterproof but highly breatheable (provided that you don't wear too much under them).
When you stop 'being active' e.g. going uphill, or when you stop, add another layer over the top of the smock. Paramo sell their Torres garments for this role, but I use a Rab Down jacket.
The Paramo smock is warm and can be likened to wearing a waterproof shell and a 100 weight fleece all in the one garment. You may need to manage temperature using zipped vents etc and adopt the idea that you are effectively wearing your waterproof layer all the time (which means you're not carrying it in your pack).
I know this system, and paramo gear generally is a bit of a 'marmite' issue, but after 40 years on the hills and 4 goretex shell jackets (all became non-waterproof) I'll be sticking with Paramo - expensive, but definitely for me, the best system out there.
BTW I also have a Buffalo special 6 shirt - far too warm for active pursuits, but ideal for sitting in a bird hide for hours
N
 CurlyStevo 02 Mar 2015
In reply to cousin nick:
You must just not sweat or I'm a bit of a sweaty git! I can't think of anything worse than wearing a water proof walking up hill unless I really need to (and I'm talking market leading membranes here).

The concept is good though. For winter mountaineering on my top I wear a cheap base layer, micro fleece, rab Exodus stretchy non insulated soft shell jacket and a standard non stretchy soft shell belay jacket. I rarely find I need a water proof if its properly cold at all levels now.

For walking in on my top half I'll likely only wear the base layer much of the way, or the base layer and micro fleece or the base layer and soft shell jacket depending on conditions. This is the beauty of having seperate insulating and weather protecting layers!

By the way I only buy cheap fleeces (crag hopper style), but I replace them quite often, I figure this will be better than an older balled up more expensive fleece. For base layers I have some merino ones but mostly I just wear some cheap polyester ones unless its really cold.
Post edited at 17:30
 BnB 02 Mar 2015
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Absolutely. I start out in winter in a waffle base layer over a mesh vest. How do you prevent yourself from boiling over in Paramo? A zip? seriously? These wearers must be descended from the lizards*.




*There's an obvious gag here about dinosaurs which I'll sidestep.
 cousin nick 02 Mar 2015
In reply to CurlyStevo:

Yes, it doesn't work for everyone, but if you've got the baselayer right and you also manage the vents and zips (in addition to Paramo's breatheability) then its fine. I find Paramo WAY more breatheable and less clammy than any shell I've ever owned. Its also a very soft fabric and doesn't feel, and indeed isn't, like a shell layer.
However, I don't like all the gear they produce - I think the Velez family of smocks are ace, but some of the jackets are shapeless, baggy and heavy. I love the Aspira salopettes for winter too - great cut and features, and again you're wearing a breathable waterproof layer all the time, BUT, they're too warm for other seasons.
Marmite again

N

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