UKH

Hi everybody,

I am planning to get ice axes/tools and I can't decide. So far I have been borrowing tools and axes from the alpine club (they have traditional mountaineering picks and the new Quarks).

I want to get away with the minimal versatile solution for the stuff I am (and plan on) doing, which is:
- Mountaineering up to grade AD/D for now (maybe Eiger in two years or so...)
- Ski mountaineering (also harder routes up than down)
So far I have only done alpine routes that didn't require technical ice tools, I have only done ice climbing separately (ice falls).
Apart from the cost, I also don't want to choose from 5 different tool combinations every time I do something but want maximal versatility with minimal equipment for practicality and routes with variable demands.

I have never quite understood the necessity for a traditional ice axe. I find in easier terrain I don't need the stability, in steeper terrain I don't need the long shaft and when skiing I always have poles anyway (which I can also bring to any alpine tour if desired). Which leaves only the self-arresting and T anchor aspect. This leads me to thinking that for the least technical tool I could get a DMM Fly (with a Raptor pick as replacement) and wouldn't need anything more traditional. Is that legitimate?
Additionally, there are routes with a Glacier approach and then very technical combined terrain and I can't imagine that people would carry a traditional axe for the approach in addition to two technical tools for the climbing?
(The Fly might be a bit heavy and there are lighter axes for moderate mountaineering, but I am willing to carry that extra weight for now)

Suppose the above is justified the question becomes, how far would I get with a pair of DMM Flys? (Eiger?) Would they possibly suffice or would I sooner or later get more radical tools anyway? In the latter case I could only get one Fly instead of a pair and additionally a pair of more aggressive tools. If so what would make sense as an addition. Would the Edelrid Riot be too similar to be an effective addition? How aggressive would I go without leaving a gap? Candidates would be DMM Apex, Edelrid Rage, Petzl Ergo - think Eiger as the most difficult I am going to do in the foreseeable future.

Any input, experience, opinions - also on the individual tools - is much appreciated!

Cheers,
setarkos

Edit: Petzl Nomic not Ergo of course would be a candidate.

In reply to setarkos:

Nothing harder than Eiger? Ueli Steck used Petzl Quarks for that one. Not that I fully qualify his league, but I'm very pleased with them too when climbing WI5 and M5-ish.

In reply to setarkos:

How are the Quarks for easier grade 2 or 3 stuff? I currently have a Cirque which has done me well on grade 1/AD routes and I'm debating if it's better to get a Fly to go with my Cirque or go the whole hog and get a pair of Quarks for slightly harder routes or if they would be overkill?

In reply to Street:
Quarks are fine and my (not particularly experienced) choice for mid grade winter. On easy uphill gradients they dagger well owing to the curvature and adjustable griprest keeping your hands out of the snow and therefore dry and warm. I like their balance but others favour the heftier Viper. Go swing both in a shop.

In common with other bent shafted tools, they don't plunge well, but most climbers seem to counteract this nowadays with the one axe/one extendable pole combo for traverses and easy ground. Works for me.

On more technical ground you'll instantly notice the difference made by the extra curvature and pick angle. For that reason I think you'll soon regret the halfway house alternative in every respect other than price. When is your birthday?

In reply to Sir Stefan:

(Ueli has also been up there with the Nomics but I don't think I want to start comparing myself to him.)

I have used the Quarks up to WI5 as well and they were fine - I would probably prefer the Edelrid Riots for subjective reasons but they are in the same aggressiveness range.

Would anyone say Quarks/Riots suffice for everything and you wouldn't need a more traditional axe in addition? Compromising on self arrest capability on medium steep Glacier/Neve terrain?

I don't doubt that I should be able to do most of what I want to do with Quarks/Riots but if I need something less aggressive anyway, I'm wondering:
- if I should just go with a pair of Flys (will I be happy with them)
- or should I get one Fly and a pair of more aggressive tools (does it then make sense to get something more aggressive (eg. Apex/Nomic/Rage) without leaving a gap to the Fly)
?

In reply to setarkos:

I'd get a walking / alpine axe for easy walking stuff (around £30 second hand?) and a pair of Quarks/ Vipers / Riots etc for technical climbing.

If you want to climb harder than grade V, it might be worth looking at more technical axes like the Nomic rather than the Quarks / Vipers / Riots.

In reply to setarkos:

I'm moving away from using my good old and trusted walking axe towards walking poles. Being able to lean on to them in deep snow is great and my knees need them when descending. For steeper slopes where being able to self arrest is needed l use one of my Quarks.

In reply to setarkos:


Normal ice axes should suffice... infact for majority, a simple lightweight axe would be more than enough.


How ever, you'll prolly want to progress to some harder routes in the future. So something like Petzl Sum'Tec or Camp X-Light would prolly be rather sweet option. Grivel Air Tech Evo, if you don't fance a replacable pick.

DMM Raptor and BD Venom might also be options.


Personal pick would be the Sum'Tec (or perhaps X-Light) for majority of climbing... and then my trusted tools (BD Fusion) for actual harder stuff, like WI5 onwards or harder mixed. At least Sum'Tec was good enough to lead leashess WI4 stuff, and as the X-Light is highly similar I'd assume it'll do the same.

In reply to BnB:

I ended up going halfway and buying a Quark to go with my Cirque. These should do me for all the things I can see myself doing for a while in the UK and Alps, then if/when I move on to harder grades I already have half a technical pair!

I'm leaning towards a pair of Riots. I think they should cover everything I want to do.
If I stumble across a good deal for something considerably lighter (CAMP Corsa or similar) I might add that to the collection for easy glacier/ski tours.
And should I ever get into stuff, for which the Riots are no longer up to the task, I will need more specialised tools anyway but that is unlikely to happen in the immediate future...
Cassin X-Allmountain or e-climb Cryo seem interesting too but they are considerably more expensive...