Your winter season layering system?

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 Alpenglow 22 Jan 2015
What will you be wearing this season for mid-grade scottish winter climbing?
Assuming light snow showers/light wind and a few degrees below 0 if this affects your decision.
1
 JayPee630 22 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:
Top half wear/carry:

Base layer (Capilene long sleeve, Brynje mesh long sleeve, Merino/synthetic zip neck, or thin hooded fleece pullover).

Pertex hooded windproof.

Polartec Alpha hooded jacket.

Non-membrane hooded softshell jacket.

Thicker synthetic hooded jacket.

Lightweight waterproof jacket.

Once I put on the base layer everything can pretty much go on or over everything else (except the Pertex windproof).

Bottom half wear/carry:
Thin Capilene leggings or thick Powerstretch leggings.

Non-membrane softshell trousers (carry lightweight waterproof trousers) or heavy waterproof salopettes (weather depending).
Post edited at 19:40
 BnB 22 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

This week on the Ben and on Skye:

Brynje Mesh tee
ME Eclipse (R1 clone) hoody
Breathable insulated vest (Alpha)
Non-membrane softshell interchangeable with Goretex Hardshell
Belay jacket
Merino leggings
Neoshell pants

Generally i was pretty comfortable and never sweaty as the mesh and microgrid fleece wick so well together. However my legs weren't that well insulated when braced against the snow

On the final day I decided to experiment and went with warmish softshell pants (Montane Sabretooth, no thermal base layer) for the walk-in and stretchy neoshell overtrousers layered over for the climbing/belaying. A triumph!! Definitely more comfortable and more flexible.

Less successful: I tried a breathable insulated full sleeve hoody (Alpha but could have been Atom LT or Nano Air) over the mesh and Eclipse. I should have stopped there but wore a Hardshell over and at the end of a 60m lead I was gasping hot. Could alternatively have dropped a base layer for better comfort I guess but the mesh and micro grid work so well in tandem that might be counterproductive. They were awesome on the walk-in with a windshirt for the final pull to the CIC.

In the end, for those of us who run hot, it's all about having a flexible system. Although cold-blooded Paramo lovers will be along in a moment to champion their alternative perspective.
In reply to blackreaver:
Just two layers for approach,climbing,skiing,walking: Patagonia R1 hoody or Rab Vapour Rise lite with hood with hooded softshell jacket on top. For belays,chuck on ME Fitzroy. Job done,nothing else needed,no fancy combos of seventy-five items!!
Post edited at 20:17
1
 George Fisher 22 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

Patagonia Capaline 4 base, (might upgrade this to something hooded, R1 or eclipse and ditch my hat)
Nano puff vest
Rab Neoshell jacket
ME Fitzroy for stopping

Rab powerstretch legging
OR softshell pants (slightly insulated)

This worked perfectly in Ouray a couple of weeks ago, -4 ish, no wind but 10000ft altitude and jetlag.
 Roberttaylor 22 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:
>2015
>still not using buffalo

I use a buffalo Big Face shirt, buffalo teclite salopettes. All open and flapping on the walk in, closed up for climbing. If I am on something harder (longer belaying sessions) then I take a light belay jacket. If not, the belay jacket stays at home.

I wear a buff on the walk in and a balaklava for climbing in.

Robert
Post edited at 20:37
 Mr-Cowdrey 22 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

Top half:
Arcteryx 'whatever' base layer

RAB Cirus windshirt for the walk in

ME Eclipse hoody or (if really cold) Patagonia Nano Air (or both!)

Arcteryx Gamma SL Softshell (if the weather is nice)

RAB Atmos Hardshell

Arcteryx Nuclei Hoody as a belay jacket (i don't generally run cold)


Bottom half:
Marmot midweight bottoms

Patagonia super alpine bibs (if the weather is crap)

Mammut base jump softshell (if the weather is nice) with Marmot Precip as a hardshell back up.
 barbeg 22 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

Hiya,

Wear:

Berghaus Tee & Rab Vapourise Guide Jkt
Rab Vapourise Guide pants
....that's it

Carry:

Marmot Belay Jkt
ME Hardshell
Berghaus GTX pants.

Nowt else required...

ANdy
 nufkin 22 Jan 2015
In reply to Andrew Mallinson:

> Nowt else required…


Undercrackers?
 barbeg 23 Jan 2015
In reply to nufkin:

....naw....just more washing then......

ANdy
 Andrew Wilson 23 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

Walk in:
R1 hoody.
Rab neoshell jacket.

Arcteryx gamma sk softshell trousers
With Ron hills under.

Climbing:
Add nano puff jacket under neoshell.

Also carry:
Western mountaineering alpine light down jacket.

The neoshell jacket is new and I'm really pleased with it. Very breathable, and the R1 wicks really well so can cope with even a fairly mild walk in.

Andy
 wilkie14c 23 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

I'm pretty simple (!)

Moreno wool long sleeve base layer and hard shell on top for the walk in. Fleece top to throw on after the walk in. Rab Belay jacket to go on top of the lot while belaying, hanging about, gearing up etc. Might swap the fleecy top for vapour rise jacket if really cold.
 aldo56 23 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

In reply to blackreaver:

Walk -in:
Mesh
Base layer
Windproof if nessasary

Sweaty base layer goes in the sack when gearing up

Climbing:
Mesh
R1
Rab VR Alpine lite / high loft fleece (if it's colder)
Exodus non membrane soft shell / hardshell if it's grim

Legs:
Rab PS lite tights
Simond soft shells / ME hardshells
 Robert Durran 23 Jan 2015
In reply to most of you:

Why havn't you already died of cold?
 BFG 23 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

The main thing this thread is doing it convincing me that the Brynje mesh stuff is really rather good (although Andy Kirkpatrick's recommendation should have been enough for that).
 BnB 23 Jan 2015
In reply to Robert Durran:

> Why havn't you already died of cold?

On account of the Brjyne mesh of course!!
 Bluebird 23 Jan 2015
In reply to Phoebus:

Bought Brynje Arctic top (mesh with merino outer combo) and have lived in it since xmas. My kids are starting to question why I never change clothes, but I'm not cold. Awesome kit, thanks Mr K!
 Robert Durran 23 Jan 2015
In reply to Phoebus:

> The main thing this thread is doing it convincing me that the Brynje mesh stuff is really rather good..........

And that the heavily marketed fad for soggy, heavy merino is well and truly over (the fact that the marketing is now entirely about it's tendency not to smell rather than anything actually functional says it all really).

Might have to dig out that old string vest I used to climb in in the early eighties!


Last weekend:

Synthetic base layer thing.
R1 Hoody
Powerstretch hoody
ME Fitzroy
Heavyweight softshell
Lightweight hardshell
Big Rab synthetic belay jacket

Powerstretch leggings
Heavyweight, slightly fleecy softshell trousers.
 JayPee630 23 Jan 2015
In reply to Robert Durran:

Agree, I bought some merino when it was all the rage, and have given up on it now totally except for a merino/synthetic blend thing from Macpac that's old and works OK. Between the moths eating it and it staying damp and weighing a load it's terrible for mountain wear IMO!
 planetmarshall 23 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

On average, merino t-shirt and Acrteryx Atom LT, merino leggins and haglofs skarn pants. In the bag, couple of extra merino base layers, PhD minimus down pullover or Jottnar Fjorm depending on how cold I'm expecting it to be/ how much I might be standing around.
 planetmarshall 23 Jan 2015
In reply to Robert Durran:
> And that the heavily marketed fad for soggy, heavy merino is well and truly over (the fact that the marketing is now entirely about it's tendency not to smell rather than anything actually functional says it all really).

I find it functional, but it is heavy. I might experiment with some synthetics this year - I have a couple of those thin Helly-Hansen things that I run in ( I find merino way too warm to run in ).
Post edited at 10:11
 iksander 23 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

Brynje long sleeve
MEC T2 Hoody
Readymix jacket
Rab Alpine Generator
Mixmaster trousers
 aldo56 23 Jan 2015
In reply to aldo56:

Forgot about my belay jacket: Alpine Generator.
 Bluebird 23 Jan 2015
In reply to planetmarshall:

Costco selling merino synthetic mix half zips for about £12. Worth a punt
 neilwiltshire 23 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

Top:
Helly Hansen Warm - Base Layer
Rab Shadow Hoodie - Mid layer fleece
Mountain Equipment Firefox - Top layer hardshell/waterproof
Mountain Equipment Lightline Down jacket - not worn when climbing. Sometimes worn at belays.

Bottom:
Helly Hansen Warm - Base Layer
Black Diamond Frontpoint Pants - Top layer / waterproof

Hands:
Black Diamond digital gloves - inner
Black Diamond thick gloves - outer

Feet:
Thick woolly socks
La Sportiva Nepal Evo GTX




Never gotten cold with this system yet. Admittedly I haven't yet used the black diamond front point pants, a new purchase for this year but I expect a big improvement on my previous makeshift layers that had me sweating a lot.

Also the ME lightline down jacket hood doesn't fit over a helmet which is annoying
 Mr Fuller 23 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

I can't believe the amount of clothing some people in this thread are wearing! I have never worn more than 5 layers in Scotland, and even at -25 in mainland Europe I'd never even consider more than 6. I actually wrote a blog post (snore) about my Scottish winter clothing last night that'll go live next week, but I will very rarely carry/wear more than 4 layers; for the weather in the OP's theoretical weather, I'd go for baselayer (hooded), fleece (hooded), membrane softshell, synthetic belay jacket, long johns, membrane softshell trousers. If unsure about the weather I'd stick in a waterproof too and wear waterproof salopettes instead of the softshell trousers.
 d_b 23 Jan 2015
In reply to Roberttaylor:

Pretty much the same.

Smelly Hansen base layers, buffalo big face shirt, some ancient montane microfleece/pertex salopettes and a powerstretch bbalaclava. Belay jacket goes on when it is seriously cold.

I find the base layers are good for when I need the flaps open but it's cold and windy - takes the sting out a bit.
 Robert Durran 23 Jan 2015
In reply to Mr Fuller:
> I can't believe the amount of clothing some people in this thread are wearing!

I can't believe how little most people are wearing! If I felt the cold as little as these people, my sack would be noticeably lighter and, being less trussed up, I'd probably climb a bit harder. It would be great!
Post edited at 10:45
In reply to Robert Durran:

Holy crap! Six layers including a belay jacket plus a second belay jacket?!?!?
 planetmarshall 23 Jan 2015
In reply to Mr Fuller:

> I can't believe the amount of clothing some people in this thread are wearing!

Well it obviously depends on the individual, not only their biology but their experience. It's also not just a matter of "not feeling the cold", but some people might be willing to endure a bit more discomfort or be willing to move a bit faster for the sake of saving some weight.

I believe there's some evidence that increased aerobic endurance can improve tolerance for the cold by improving the circulation of blood flow around the body, so fitness is also likely to be a factor ( though I could just be making this up ).

 Robert Durran 23 Jan 2015
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

> Holy crap! Six layers including a belay jacket plus a second belay jacket?!?!?

The ME Fitzroy is not a belay jacket; it is a warm layer for me (though rarely worn on the walk in). The RAB one is about twice as thick - a proper belay jacket.
In reply to Robert Durran:

Fair enough!

It is interesting how much variety there is on this thread, a lot of people view the Fitzroy as a belay jacket but we're all different.
 George Fisher 23 Jan 2015
In reply to Robert Durran:

My theory has shifted from 'loads of clothes and a massive 50l pack' to 'carry less stuff, move faster'. I have a 33l pack, which I never fill. My 'climbing layers (minus vest for the walk in). Fitzroy is the belay jacket. Belay mitts and spare gloves. BD punishers for climbing. Maybe it doesn't offer much scope for getting stuck out there but it hasn't happened yet... I do feel the cold if I don't eat enough or I stop for too long.

 Robert Durran 23 Jan 2015
In reply to George Fisher:

> My theory has shifted from 'loads of clothes and a massive 50l pack' to 'carry less stuff, move faster'.

But the critical factor is how long and therefore cold you get belaying - nothing to do with how fast you move. if I was just out walking or doing easy routes I would probably get away with 4 layers and a 30l sack. If I want to do routes I find hard, I might be belaying for up to a couple of hours at a time.
 Gazlynn 23 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:
Walk in - Thin Merino baselayer
R1 Hoody
gortex proshell jacket

In my sack I would have a nanopuff jacket or / and a vapour rise smock and i would layer on the climb accordingly.

if it wasn't snowing I would put on a paramo fuera windproof smock on for the walk in and keep the gortex in the sack.

Patagucci Backcountries for my legs with smartwool extra heavy socks for me tootsies.

cheers

Gaz
Post edited at 11:25
 galpinos 23 Jan 2015
In reply to Robert Durran:

I think that's the difference. As someone who only climbs up to V and rarely mixed I'm not often belaying for that long. I wouldn't wear the same clothes for a mixed VIII as I would a III gully.
 George Fisher 23 Jan 2015
In reply to Robert Durran:

So maybe the critical thing is how quick your partner is. Most of my climbing has been on US water ice. My mixed has been limited to about V. My regular partner is pretty quick (better than me) so less standing around.
 barbeg 23 Jan 2015
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

Nick mate,

Given your history, you probably sold most of the stuff to him in the first place ! LOL!

Best regards,

ANdy
 Timmd 23 Jan 2015
In reply to Robert Durran:
> And that the heavily marketed fad for soggy, heavy merino is well and truly over (the fact that the marketing is now entirely about it's tendency not to smell rather than anything actually functional says it all really).

(Raises hand) If I wear a merino base layer with a Howies Waffle mid layer, I've found I don't start to cool off from the moisture being held onto by the base layer once I've stopped moving because the Waffle layer absorbs it at the same time as insulating due to the air spaces in the weave.

I've not done any Scottish winter climbing yet mind you.
Post edited at 13:07
 steveshaking 23 Jan 2015
In reply to Timmd:
Dropped from 3 layers to just a montane extreme last weekend in the lakes. Bit hot on the walk in even with it flapping open but great the rest of the time. So easy and simple. Never used my micropuff jacket despite long belays.
Did have paramo salopettes due the forecast 50 mph winds, really they add another layer.
In reply to Andrew Mallinson:

Too true mate!
 The New NickB 23 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

Generally just wear an R1 Hoody and a pertex windproof on my top half, with a fairly lightweight waterproof hardshell and a synthetic belay jacket in my bag. Either softshell trousers on there own with lightweight waterproof trousers in my bag, or heavyweight hardshell salopettes with thermals from the start if it looks a bit wild.

I run pretty warm and I know that some people would need more insulation, if it is a good bit colder, I will also carry an additional very light synthetic layer (60g/m2 primaloft or similar).
In reply to steveshaking:

I hate layering in the winter, so have been using the Buffalo Special Six system for a few years now. Provided it's below +5C I don't find it problematic, plenty of vents and all.
 LucaC 23 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

Baselayer to walk in
Rab baseline hoody
Rab vapourise guide jacket
Alpha SV
Fitzroy to belay

Vapourise guide trousers
Lightweight event bottoms (to be replaced with neoshell one soon)

Or
Powerstretch leggings
Goretex sallopettes
 timmeehhhh 23 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

walk-in:

Mesh sleeveless shirt
Longsleeve baselayer
Buff & fleece gloves

Climbing:
Lightweight primaloft hoody
Balaclava & selection of light gloves

Belaying:
Down parka and insulated gloves

leggs:
decathlon undies
powerstretch 3/4 leggings
long decathlon ski socks
light, close fitting non-membrane softshell pants
sometimes a light pair of overtrousers

Light grid fleece and Neoshell jacket are in the pack and can be added when necessary.



 pacman 23 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

The following works well for me when going out in the conditions you've mentioned

Walk in:
Top half - old hooded Rab VR smock (probably sleeves up and unzipped)
Bottom half - old Mountain Equipment Ultrafleece salopettes (zipped open for venting) with some powerstretch or lighter weight plastic leggings underneath (pulled up to knee if walking quickly up a good path and not got gaiters on)
Powerstretch gloves or buffalo mitts, maybe a thin buff

Climbing:
Patagonia C4 top (no hood) underneath the Rab smock (possibly a Rab Cirrus windproof as well under the Rab)
Leggings/salopettes pulled down and gaiters on
Warmer climbing gloves, might be hard or soft shell
hat under helmet
Probably a buff around face/neck

Belaying:
Zip up and hood up if not there for long,
or belay jacket (hooded Patagonia Micro Puff or lighter weight Haglofs primaloft top without hood) unless partner is bigger (in which case we'll use his jacket) or I'm expecting to be there for ages.
 Dr.S at work 24 Jan 2015
In reply to pacman:

Aspria sallopettes

Baselayer appropriate to day - either very thin north face thing, merino, or thick old spray way gridded fleece.
Aspria smock or wind shirt (buffalo)

Belay jacket - was using a Torres last year, rab alpine generator this.

I have recently got a mesh t for cycling, very impressed, and may get a similar for walking - the cycling one is perhaps slightly too pornographic.....

 Tarquell 24 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

Where's everyone getting all the Brynje mesh from? I don't think I've ever seen it in shops
 Bluebird 24 Jan 2015
In reply to Tarquell:

Nordiclife online
 Nathan Adam 24 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

Top half;

Cheap decathlon synthetic base layer
Rab Boreas
North Face softshell gilet
M.E. Orbital/Rab Pertex top
Montane Flux for the belays

Bottoms; (depending how cold windchill is)

1 or 2 pairs of leggings
Patagonia Alpine Guide pant

If the weather is good, and freezing level is reasonably low, I won't carry waterproof trousers, but always have a lightweight Rab Pertex "waterproof" jacket as it is good at keeping the wind out if it happens to pick up. If the weather is shite from the off then I wear a heavier waterproof and salopette combo.

Can happily carry enough for a full day out climbing in the Blue ice Warthog 26 if the helmet goes in its holder and the rope is strapped to the outside.
 iksander 24 Jan 2015
In reply to Tarquell:

> Where's everyone getting all the Brynje mesh from? I don't think I've ever seen it in shops

http://www.ukmcpro.co.uk//AA59NBHWD2/645704
 Dr.S at work 24 Jan 2015
In reply to iksander:

Fat boy Mears sells it as well
 doz 24 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

For belays I dream of carrying in my Rab sleeping bag an bright yellow bivi thing with arm holes in but there never seems to be any spare room in my bag....
Removed User 24 Jan 2015
In reply to Robert Durran:

I use the Fitzroy as a belay jacket on top of a polypropylene base layer and a montane warmish soft shell. If it's looking cold I'll pack an extra primaloft mid layer.
 jonnie3430 25 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

Walk in:

synthetic t-shirt
montane featherlite windproof
synthetic long johns
(If I don't strip off, I sweat too much. R1 goes on if its cold and windy, like yesterday, under the featherlite.)

Over the top for climbing:
Goretex salopettes
Patagonia R1 Hoody
Paramo Aspira Smock
(if the featherlite is wet from the walk in it goes in the bag.)

Belaying:
Patagonia DAS Parka.

I have other stuff but was trashing it, so am back to the hard wearing warm stuff instead.
 origamib 25 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

Last year I wore:
a long sleeved RAB baselyer
long sleeved fleece (quite thin)
Hardshell jacket
long johns
cheap Hi gear insulted trousers (typhoon?)

Rab downjacket at belays (rarely worn......)

I was waaaay too hot..... So this year I've swapped out the fleece for the montane prism, and swapped the insulated trousers for some very lightweight North face softshell trousers... Almost too light in fact, so I may bulk this with another underlayer
 BFG 26 Jan 2015
In reply to Robert Durran:

>Synthetic base layer thing.
>R1 Hoody
>Powerstretch hoody... [etc]

Wow. I thought I ran cold.

To those who have the Brynje. Given that I can't go try this stuff on, which type is being used by most people? How does it size? At least I won't have to worry about fancy dress parties anymore, I can just go as Rab C Nesbitt...

On a similar note, people using the ME Eclipse Tee thingy... how does that one size up? I liked the look of the R1 hoody but found the small too restrictive and the medium too baggy.
 iksander 26 Jan 2015
In reply to Phoebus:

> To those who have the Brynje. Given that I can't go try this stuff on, which type is being used by most people? How does it size?

I've got a super thermo long sleeve, true to size I'd say (42"chest = large for me)

 galpinos 26 Jan 2015
In reply to Phoebus:
> On a similar note, people using the ME Eclipse Tee thingy... how does that one size up? I liked the look of the R1 hoody but found the small too restrictive and the medium too baggy.

I have an old R1 (the cut may have changed) in medium and an Eclipse in large. They have a similar fit size wise though the Eclipse has a better fitting cut (no baggy spots).
meffl 26 Jan 2015
In reply to blackreaver:

Buffalo mountain shirt (women's) on top and Helly dry under. I know a lot of people don't get on with the Buffalo hood but it works for me!

Just back from a trip in upstate NY with the same kit and the temps were as low as -30 c before wind chill. Worked perfectly. Went skiing in NM after that, not as cold but more wind, and again impressed. Tried out Buffalo trousers (had to alter leg as couldn't find women's) and mitts as well. Impressed with both, though the mitts don't evaporate as well when you're clutching ski poles.

My sweatier better half wears a Brynje under his buffalo and swears by it.

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