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Heading up to the lakes this weekend ,wondering what any winter conditions are like .....thinking Great End, or any other suggestions, Thanks Alastair
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In reply to Alastair Cochran:
There is hope, but it will take some time. Ignore anyone telling you anything is climbable.
DC
> Heading up to the lakes this weekend ,wondering what any winter conditions are like
Everything is ghostly white with very thin cover from showers usually hail. Everything has been excessively wet and mild with brim full lakes and rivers. Non-existent "Winter conditions" so far. Ground not frozen but conditions very slowly improving: http://www.mountain-forecast.com/peaks/Great-End/forecasts/910There is hope, but it will take some time. Ignore anyone telling you anything is climbable.
DC
In reply to Dave Cumberland
Fully agree..... nothing "in" today and conditions dont look good for the next few days either
Fully agree..... nothing "in" today and conditions dont look good for the next few days either
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Hopefully the next few days will bring a base of snow from which conditions can build. But I would highly doubt anything will be climbable until next week at the earliest....
As a write it's snowing in Ambleside reasonably heavily.
Hopefully the next few days will bring a base of snow from which conditions can build. But I would highly doubt anything will be climbable until next week at the earliest....
As a write it's snowing in Ambleside reasonably heavily.
Post edited at 15:56
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
With the exception of Wednesday night temperatures are going to be below zero above 400-500 metres throughout the week, I would imagine by the weekend you could find yourself something climbable around Brown Cove, or other north facing aspects, but definitely not before. Even here in Carlisle its been snowing/hailing on and off most of the day, a rare occurrence!
Ollie.
With the exception of Wednesday night temperatures are going to be below zero above 400-500 metres throughout the week, I would imagine by the weekend you could find yourself something climbable around Brown Cove, or other north facing aspects, but definitely not before. Even here in Carlisle its been snowing/hailing on and off most of the day, a rare occurrence!
Ollie.
Post edited at 16:45
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
there was a bucketful of warm rain, delivered in an air temp of 10-11 degrees, on Friday night so might take a wee while to cool down, its a warm winter
john
there was a bucketful of warm rain, delivered in an air temp of 10-11 degrees, on Friday night so might take a wee while to cool down, its a warm winter
john
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Yes there's plenty of winter conditions up there - it is winter. Would you like me to send a runner up to find out? Or perhaps organise someone to look at the weather forcast or fell top conditions perhaps?
Yes there's plenty of winter conditions up there - it is winter. Would you like me to send a runner up to find out? Or perhaps organise someone to look at the weather forcast or fell top conditions perhaps?
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In reply to Dave Perry:
Why do you need to organise someone else to go up and check? Can you not do it?
Why do you need to organise someone else to go up and check? Can you not do it?
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In reply to Alastair Cochran:
forecast is looking brilliant for the weekend, hopefully the high will drag the cold in!
forecast is looking brilliant for the weekend, hopefully the high will drag the cold in!
In reply to Dave Perry:
Someone does that already! http://www.lakedistrictweatherline.co.uk/
> Yes there's plenty of winter conditions up there - it is winter. Would you like me to send a runner up to find out? Or perhaps organise someone to look at the weather forcast or fell top conditions perhaps?
Someone does that already! http://www.lakedistrictweatherline.co.uk/
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Currently storm force winds even at low level, plenty of snow around the tops, more to come this afternoon but was a thaw last night with significant local flooding, so more cold days required. Well above freezing at 300 metres where I stand. Will be high avalanche risk currently.
DC
Currently storm force winds even at low level, plenty of snow around the tops, more to come this afternoon but was a thaw last night with significant local flooding, so more cold days required. Well above freezing at 300 metres where I stand. Will be high avalanche risk currently.
DC
In reply to Dave Cumberland:
Where is all this Avalanchey snow at? the hills are pretty frozen but almost bare.
Where is all this Avalanchey snow at? the hills are pretty frozen but almost bare.
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Was on a callout on Fairfield last night until 4am. Paths are frozen in places but not much snow about, even on leeward slopes. What snow there was, was mushy and melting. Still cold though, but definitely no significant build up unless things have changed dramatically this morning!
Was on a callout on Fairfield last night until 4am. Paths are frozen in places but not much snow about, even on leeward slopes. What snow there was, was mushy and melting. Still cold though, but definitely no significant build up unless things have changed dramatically this morning!
In reply to Si Withington:
> Paths are frozen in places but not much snow about, even on leeward slopes.
Was really referring to the forecast white-out on the fells which is hitting just now. With the high wind and fresh snow plus any older spindrift - likely to be some build-ups of wind slab.
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In reply to Wesley Orvis:
A word of caution I guess...
Just because he runs in winter doesn't mean he can predict climbing conditions and just because there is snow on the hills doesn't mean climbing conditions will be good at the weekend. Looking back at weather and temps earlier in the week I would say the turf won't have been frozen before the snow came (if winds had been easterly maybe), so will be insulated by the new covering. By his own admission he never checked turf anywhere near the Red Tarn face.
Given the amount of snow forecast and wind to redistribute it, I would be very careful this weekend - only time will tell however.
Aye,
Davie
A word of caution I guess...
Just because he runs in winter doesn't mean he can predict climbing conditions and just because there is snow on the hills doesn't mean climbing conditions will be good at the weekend. Looking back at weather and temps earlier in the week I would say the turf won't have been frozen before the snow came (if winds had been easterly maybe), so will be insulated by the new covering. By his own admission he never checked turf anywhere near the Red Tarn face.
Given the amount of snow forecast and wind to redistribute it, I would be very careful this weekend - only time will tell however.
Aye,
Davie
In reply to DR:
Fair dos understood. But was amazed myself last weekend after all the mild storms we have had how much Ice was about and how frozen the top layer of turf was on helvellyn and red screes not right through but was getting there and it's been pretty cold since then with only one thaw yesterday. I would imagine the problem isn't unfrozen ground but a lack of snow. At the moment that is anyways as a lot due.
Fair dos understood. But was amazed myself last weekend after all the mild storms we have had how much Ice was about and how frozen the top layer of turf was on helvellyn and red screes not right through but was getting there and it's been pretty cold since then with only one thaw yesterday. I would imagine the problem isn't unfrozen ground but a lack of snow. At the moment that is anyways as a lot due.
Post edited at 17:47
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
D'ya reckon that Pinnacle Ridge might be snowy enough to make it winter tomorrow? Considering a mad dash over to the Lakes or Wales tonight to get an early route in tomorrow... Doing the petrol costs/likelihood of getting a route in equation this very minute!
D'ya reckon that Pinnacle Ridge might be snowy enough to make it winter tomorrow? Considering a mad dash over to the Lakes or Wales tonight to get an early route in tomorrow... Doing the petrol costs/likelihood of getting a route in equation this very minute!
In reply to TobyA: Forecast for snow showers tomoz plus strong westerly gusting 50 or 60mph, so should defo be wintry and wild.Hats off to fell top accessor today having to crawl 350m decending helvelyn due to storm force winds.
In reply to blackcat:
But they're saying good vis between the showers. I hear Pinnacle is pretty rocky so the turf being iron hard or not, isn't too much of an issue - is that true?
But they're saying good vis between the showers. I hear Pinnacle is pretty rocky so the turf being iron hard or not, isn't too much of an issue - is that true?
In reply to TobyA:
Which Pinnacle Ridge? St Sunday Crag or Gable?
St Sunday Crag is all rock and you can avoid the crux pinnacle on the left if you're soloing
Gable Pinnacle Ridge has plenty of turf on it, including on the crux pull, where you need it well frozen
Which Pinnacle Ridge? St Sunday Crag or Gable?
St Sunday Crag is all rock and you can avoid the crux pinnacle on the left if you're soloing
Gable Pinnacle Ridge has plenty of turf on it, including on the crux pull, where you need it well frozen
In reply to LakesWinter:
Sorry, yes - St Sunday. I'd be on my own, Gable one is III isn't it? Probably a bit above my soloing limit, at least until I get back into doing British mixed, rather than pure ice!
Sorry, yes - St Sunday. I'd be on my own, Gable one is III isn't it? Probably a bit above my soloing limit, at least until I get back into doing British mixed, rather than pure ice!
In reply to TobyA:
Hi Toby it 5 degrees and raining heavy I defo recon pinnacle ridge is a goer tomorrow doesn't need frozen turf at all. Soloing the crux isn't to hard either although I prefer to rope up for it. It goes in powder too it's all rock hooks. Although I find it easier with hands and crampons even in full winter as all holds are pinnacles and incut holds. Was on helvellyn both days last weekend although the winds were strong I never found them as bad as forecast. Although we didn't see any one else at all for both days so had put lots of others off.
Hi Toby it 5 degrees and raining heavy I defo recon pinnacle ridge is a goer tomorrow doesn't need frozen turf at all. Soloing the crux isn't to hard either although I prefer to rope up for it. It goes in powder too it's all rock hooks. Although I find it easier with hands and crampons even in full winter as all holds are pinnacles and incut holds. Was on helvellyn both days last weekend although the winds were strong I never found them as bad as forecast. Although we didn't see any one else at all for both days so had put lots of others off.
Post edited at 20:01
In reply to TobyA: Only done this in summer, its on my to do list for winter when i get round to it, though its a shame its so short.
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
I'm umming and ahhing about what height it will be coming down as snow at... The Met office thinks its 4 degrees at Helvellyn Youth Hostel http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/gctyk4pxk at the mo. By the morning I can see that it would be snowing lower, but at the moment I guess its some way up before its snow coming down.
Decisions decisions!
I'm umming and ahhing about what height it will be coming down as snow at... The Met office thinks its 4 degrees at Helvellyn Youth Hostel http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/forecast/gctyk4pxk at the mo. By the morning I can see that it would be snowing lower, but at the moment I guess its some way up before its snow coming down.
Decisions decisions!
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In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Good work for the pictures and a reasonable report I felt. Surprised to see so much snow in gully 1. Just depends on how much snow gets blown around (rather than settling) as to whether it freezes. Think Weatherline report says it all really and this is worth keeping an eye on for ground temperatures;
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/idwal
NMM
Good work for the pictures and a reasonable report I felt. Surprised to see so much snow in gully 1. Just depends on how much snow gets blown around (rather than settling) as to whether it freezes. Think Weatherline report says it all really and this is worth keeping an eye on for ground temperatures;
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/idwal
NMM
In reply to TobyA: heading up the pass in a bit at 400m and going up red screes St about 700 or more so will report back with pics at what level it is snowing at.
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In reply to TobyA:
think it will be a brilliant trip
might be worth keeping an eye on snow condition, the steep easy slope from top Pinnacle ridge difficulties to summit St S, has avalanched in past
cheers
john
think it will be a brilliant trip
might be worth keeping an eye on snow condition, the steep easy slope from top Pinnacle ridge difficulties to summit St S, has avalanched in past
cheers
john
Post edited at 20:45
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In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Good effort! You should have got the Weatherline job by merit, or UKC lakes correspondent?
NMM
Good effort! You should have got the Weatherline job by merit, or UKC lakes correspondent?
NMM
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
Cheers mate wasn't actually my report was my mates he lives next door to helvellyn youth hostel and runs the edges a few nights a week. He has climbed for many years since he was a kid with his dad and is no muppet. So I take what he says as near enough.
Cheers mate wasn't actually my report was my mates he lives next door to helvellyn youth hostel and runs the edges a few nights a week. He has climbed for many years since he was a kid with his dad and is no muppet. So I take what he says as near enough.
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
about 2pm
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.891103137578123/891101...
about 2pm
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.891103137578123/891101...
In reply to John Kelly:
Today's fell top assessor report is pretty positive - see you somewhere on the Helvellyn massif on Sunday! I'll report back what we find... very cold (-5) at altitude but suspect that there will still be significant patches of unfrozen ground even about 800m given how recently it was still mild and wet. This is part of the reason why I'm waiting until Sunday before exploring (and the other is that I've now got something non-climbing I have to do tomorrow!)
LDSC has opened the Raise ski tow today, so that should give you an idea of just how much snow there is up there now - all of that has come down in the last 3 days.
Take care folks.
PP.
Today's fell top assessor report is pretty positive - see you somewhere on the Helvellyn massif on Sunday! I'll report back what we find... very cold (-5) at altitude but suspect that there will still be significant patches of unfrozen ground even about 800m given how recently it was still mild and wet. This is part of the reason why I'm waiting until Sunday before exploring (and the other is that I've now got something non-climbing I have to do tomorrow!)
LDSC has opened the Raise ski tow today, so that should give you an idea of just how much snow there is up there now - all of that has come down in the last 3 days.
Take care folks.
PP.
Happy New Year everyone, my first post of 2015.
Just returned from a run up Coniston Old Man and as of 16:00 today (Fri/16) there is ~5-10cm powdery snow from the Copper mines to the top. The roads are mostly clear but take care! I waded up Summit Route in knee deep powder which sits atop underlying damp grass. Beautiful sunset on top but cold wind & some spindrift blowing about. Its quite iced up where puddles have frozen on the tops/ridges but there's no frozen turf. So very fine conditions for a walk/run.
DSM
Just returned from a run up Coniston Old Man and as of 16:00 today (Fri/16) there is ~5-10cm powdery snow from the Copper mines to the top. The roads are mostly clear but take care! I waded up Summit Route in knee deep powder which sits atop underlying damp grass. Beautiful sunset on top but cold wind & some spindrift blowing about. Its quite iced up where puddles have frozen on the tops/ridges but there's no frozen turf. So very fine conditions for a walk/run.
DSM
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Went up to Brown Cove today, we went up Left Branch, 90% neve all the way baring a few powdery sections.
Have added a few photos to ukc but they probably wont be on till tomo now.
The buttresses looked good and solid, ice forming well. The top pitch of Two Grooves has snow/ice in it.
Coming down off the hill we had to put our crampons back on as there was lots of hard compact snow ice/neve.
Went up to Brown Cove today, we went up Left Branch, 90% neve all the way baring a few powdery sections.
Have added a few photos to ukc but they probably wont be on till tomo now.
The buttresses looked good and solid, ice forming well. The top pitch of Two Grooves has snow/ice in it.
Coming down off the hill we had to put our crampons back on as there was lots of hard compact snow ice/neve.
Post edited at 17:47
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In reply to John Kelly:
Did Pinnacle Ridge on St Sunday - exposed turf all frozen, hard snow on ledges, rock not hoared up but snowing hard and lots of snow blown onto the rocks. Deep snow where it would collect in the lee of the wind. I then down climbed the gully to climbers left of Pinnacle, that was actually really pleasant with a lot of hard neve in it - secure and quick to come down. I then tried East Chockstone Gully but it has a short pitch of nearly vertical ice at the bottom, this went OK but was very soft, but you can spread your weight by bridging to footholds across the chimney, but I didn't trust the ice fully to swing across just onto the ice and finish the steep bit, so gently bridged back down. I went further along and climbed one of other gullies (Pillar maybe?) on hard snow to the summit. Some lovely views but it didn't clear until I was back down at the road and driving back over Kirkstone Pass. So two and a bit routes done, and back in Sheffield not too long after my kids got home from school which was the main thing!
Did Pinnacle Ridge on St Sunday - exposed turf all frozen, hard snow on ledges, rock not hoared up but snowing hard and lots of snow blown onto the rocks. Deep snow where it would collect in the lee of the wind. I then down climbed the gully to climbers left of Pinnacle, that was actually really pleasant with a lot of hard neve in it - secure and quick to come down. I then tried East Chockstone Gully but it has a short pitch of nearly vertical ice at the bottom, this went OK but was very soft, but you can spread your weight by bridging to footholds across the chimney, but I didn't trust the ice fully to swing across just onto the ice and finish the steep bit, so gently bridged back down. I went further along and climbed one of other gullies (Pillar maybe?) on hard snow to the summit. Some lovely views but it didn't clear until I was back down at the road and driving back over Kirkstone Pass. So two and a bit routes done, and back in Sheffield not too long after my kids got home from school which was the main thing!
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In reply to John Kelly:
Up at 3.59, in the car and driving 10 minutes later! It was still dark enough that I needed my headlamp to read the map just checking where I was meant to go walking up the Grisedale road. But I could get free parking in Patterdale though at that time! I will sleep well tonight I'm sure.
Up at 3.59, in the car and driving 10 minutes later! It was still dark enough that I needed my headlamp to read the map just checking where I was meant to go walking up the Grisedale road. But I could get free parking in Patterdale though at that time! I will sleep well tonight I'm sure.
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In reply to John Kelly:
If anyone is interested, some visual media from today!
A tiny video clip of walking off the summit of St Sunday's here youtube.com/watch?v=X8mpbsRZEZk& it was a wee bit blowy!
And a couple of pics here https://twitter.com/TobyinHelsinki/status/556184681277046784
If anyone is interested, some visual media from today!
A tiny video clip of walking off the summit of St Sunday's here youtube.com/watch?v=X8mpbsRZEZk& it was a wee bit blowy!
And a couple of pics here https://twitter.com/TobyinHelsinki/status/556184681277046784
Folks do take care on the roads in the Lakes at the mo. I've just had to go out & rescue my wife who got stuck just south of Torver, and later I passed an overturned car near Ulverston (driver was OK). Both due to localised sleet/snow/hail showers.
DSM
DSM
In reply to DSM:
Cheers Toby much appreciated. Someone stuck st the top kirkstone pass too just passed them digging out. A 4x4 roped them off in the end.
Cheers Toby much appreciated. Someone stuck st the top kirkstone pass too just passed them digging out. A 4x4 roped them off in the end.
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
I was really careful going over this morning and then back in the afternoon (as I was coming over Snake Pass on the way/way home) - I'm missing my 'proper' winter tyres on my car in Finland! - but actually it was fine, the temperature never went below 1 degree and it was very wet until the very top of the pass where a tiny bit of snow was on the road. I guess if it got colder later, then it could be really slippy with black ice?
Oh yeah - interestingly most of the gullies on St. Sunday had lots of old avalanche debris at the bottom. This made for rather good cramponing up - nice and firm. But there must of been a heavy dump of snow sometime ago followed by a frightening thaw!
> Someone stuck st the top kirkstone pass too just passed them digging out. A 4x4 roped them off in the end.
I was really careful going over this morning and then back in the afternoon (as I was coming over Snake Pass on the way/way home) - I'm missing my 'proper' winter tyres on my car in Finland! - but actually it was fine, the temperature never went below 1 degree and it was very wet until the very top of the pass where a tiny bit of snow was on the road. I guess if it got colder later, then it could be really slippy with black ice?
Oh yeah - interestingly most of the gullies on St. Sunday had lots of old avalanche debris at the bottom. This made for rather good cramponing up - nice and firm. But there must of been a heavy dump of snow sometime ago followed by a frightening thaw!
Post edited at 22:30
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In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Bowfell - mainly powder, turf frozen
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=891570820864688&set=vb.21120267556...
Bowfell - mainly powder, turf frozen
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=891570820864688&set=vb.21120267556...
In reply to John Kelly:
Fantastic conditions on browncove crags today did summer step ii and central gully I/ii and broad gully. Bomber neve with a few inch of powder on top and ice and turf in great nick
Fantastic conditions on browncove crags today did summer step ii and central gully I/ii and broad gully. Bomber neve with a few inch of powder on top and ice and turf in great nick
Post edited at 17:49
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Brown Cove today.
>Left branch in good condition, although there was a foot of powder on some of the middle sections. Good Neve.
>Right Buttress Crack (I think). Some of the turf which was covered in powder wasn't 100% frozen, but enough of it was not to make an impact on the turf. Neve not as good as on Left Branch. Lots of powder on the second pitch and up. Still good.
Brilliant day.
>Left branch in good condition, although there was a foot of powder on some of the middle sections. Good Neve.
>Right Buttress Crack (I think). Some of the turf which was covered in powder wasn't 100% frozen, but enough of it was not to make an impact on the turf. Neve not as good as on Left Branch. Lots of powder on the second pitch and up. Still good.
Brilliant day.
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In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Climbed a route on Dollywagon North today. Can't remember it's name, 2nd from left on topo. Quite a lot of powder about but turf quite well frozen where you see it between the powder. Crag can be approached by broad easy gully on scoured neve 50m L of crag (when facing crag, R of crag when standing above it) and only a small amount of wading needed to get to crag base. Also well sheltered from the wild winds on the plateau.
Climbed a route on Dollywagon North today. Can't remember it's name, 2nd from left on topo. Quite a lot of powder about but turf quite well frozen where you see it between the powder. Crag can be approached by broad easy gully on scoured neve 50m L of crag (when facing crag, R of crag when standing above it) and only a small amount of wading needed to get to crag base. Also well sheltered from the wild winds on the plateau.
In reply to paulh.0776:
ice (slush!) there today but not 'holding' an axe.energy sapping deep powder on approach and in gullies....as expected but was good to get out. I wouldnt rush up there....
ice (slush!) there today but not 'holding' an axe.energy sapping deep powder on approach and in gullies....as expected but was good to get out. I wouldnt rush up there....
In reply to greylag:
Tnx for that, a few days of hard freeze will do it no end of good by the sound of it. Might give it a go on Thurs.
Tnx for that, a few days of hard freeze will do it no end of good by the sound of it. Might give it a go on Thurs.
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155212085400294&set=a.1015501...
Hope you lot can see this, Current conditions on Brown Cove Crags, this is an ice smear at the start of Right Buttress Crack.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10155212085400294&set=a.1015501...
Hope you lot can see this, Current conditions on Brown Cove Crags, this is an ice smear at the start of Right Buttress Crack.
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In reply to OllieF:
Nice pic Ollie was looking at this for tomorrow, what was the rest off the route like?
Nice pic Ollie was looking at this for tomorrow, what was the rest off the route like?
In reply to David Cowley:
A mix of Neve and Powder really, no exposed turf to speak of! The only ice was on this pitch. Hopefully it'll be windy enough overnight to blow away all the powder dropped today, to leave behind nice neve See you up there!
Edit: I take it back, there was the odd bit of frozen turf, but only a tiny wee bit.
A mix of Neve and Powder really, no exposed turf to speak of! The only ice was on this pitch. Hopefully it'll be windy enough overnight to blow away all the powder dropped today, to leave behind nice neve See you up there!
Edit: I take it back, there was the odd bit of frozen turf, but only a tiny wee bit.
Post edited at 23:06
In reply to OllieF:
Just wondering whether to go here or red tarn, fancied jogebar aswell, did conditions make it a standard lll, havnt done owt for 2 year
Just wondering whether to go here or red tarn, fancied jogebar aswell, did conditions make it a standard lll, havnt done owt for 2 year
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Hell of a lot of powder on top of the neve by the end of the day. Top half of summer step was knee deep in powder Whereas central was good neve first thing in the morning. Been snowing for a couple of hours this evening too going to do pinnacle ridge myself as recon it could be pretty serious out there tomoz.
Hell of a lot of powder on top of the neve by the end of the day. Top half of summer step was knee deep in powder Whereas central was good neve first thing in the morning. Been snowing for a couple of hours this evening too going to do pinnacle ridge myself as recon it could be pretty serious out there tomoz.
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Edit: just found this http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2015/01/18/two-helvellyn-walkers-injured-i... Hopefully everyone will pull through. Congrats to the MRT for once again getting out there and saving people.
I wrote up my day on St Sunday here http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/pinnacle-ridge-st-sunday-cr... If nothing else the pic of the avalanche debris is worth seeing just as a reminder that England can get decent sized slides just like any other snowy mountains!
> Big rescue going on tonight on helvellyn.
Hope everyone is ok. Nothing in the news that I could see. Edit: just found this http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2015/01/18/two-helvellyn-walkers-injured-i... Hopefully everyone will pull through. Congrats to the MRT for once again getting out there and saving people.
I wrote up my day on St Sunday here http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/pinnacle-ridge-st-sunday-cr... If nothing else the pic of the avalanche debris is worth seeing just as a reminder that England can get decent sized slides just like any other snowy mountains!
Post edited at 14:06
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In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Good write up Toby and good pics did pinnacle ridge again myself today and set off a big slab at the bottom of one of the gullies. All older debris now covered in a couple of foot of fresh powder. Some amount of snow out there! Upwards spin drift was crazy and winds much higher than forecast. Will not forget goggles again in a hurry.
Good write up Toby and good pics did pinnacle ridge again myself today and set off a big slab at the bottom of one of the gullies. All older debris now covered in a couple of foot of fresh powder. Some amount of snow out there! Upwards spin drift was crazy and winds much higher than forecast. Will not forget goggles again in a hurry.
Post edited at 17:30
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Went up Helvelyn today from Thirlmere planning to do the Swirral/Striding Edge round. The wind was pretty intense on top and it was a real battle at times to stay upright and make progress. Sacked off going along the ridges due to the wind. I'd guestimate some of the gusts were 60mph plus. The swirling spindrift was pretty impressive. I was glad that I brought my goggles and buff. Brown Cove Crags was a popular choice today with a lot of climbers heading into and out of the cove. People seemed to be reporting good conditions.
Went up Helvelyn today from Thirlmere planning to do the Swirral/Striding Edge round. The wind was pretty intense on top and it was a real battle at times to stay upright and make progress. Sacked off going along the ridges due to the wind. I'd guestimate some of the gusts were 60mph plus. The swirling spindrift was pretty impressive. I was glad that I brought my goggles and buff. Brown Cove Crags was a popular choice today with a lot of climbers heading into and out of the cove. People seemed to be reporting good conditions.
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
I counted over 30 climbers on Brown Cove Crags today but most were on Summer Step and Central Gully (maybe thanks to their good marketing by Wesley Orvis yesterday!).
Climbed Left Buttress stringing together lots of good neve, solid turf and ice. Near the top the wind swung around to northerly and increased a lot making the top out quite adventurous with impressive spindrift.
A great winter day.
I counted over 30 climbers on Brown Cove Crags today but most were on Summer Step and Central Gully (maybe thanks to their good marketing by Wesley Orvis yesterday!).
Climbed Left Buttress stringing together lots of good neve, solid turf and ice. Near the top the wind swung around to northerly and increased a lot making the top out quite adventurous with impressive spindrift.
A great winter day.
In reply to TobyA:
Sadly not
http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2015/01/18/helvellyn-walker-dies-of-injuri...
> Hopefully everyone will pull through
Sadly not
http://www.grough.co.uk/magazine/2015/01/18/helvellyn-walker-dies-of-injuri...
In reply to crowberry gully:
You are all absolutely utterly and totally mad.
Does no one understand what "Winter conditions" means any more?
The fells were absolute total shiiiiiiiiite today - AND yesterday.
DC
You are all absolutely utterly and totally mad.
Does no one understand what "Winter conditions" means any more?
The fells were absolute total shiiiiiiiiite today - AND yesterday.
DC
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Was rammed on Brown Cove Crags today. We managed a couple of easy gullies with a load of powder in them. Wind was very strong on top outs. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153007291555242&set=ms.c.eJxljbkN...
Was rammed on Brown Cove Crags today. We managed a couple of easy gullies with a load of powder in them. Wind was very strong on top outs. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153007291555242&set=ms.c.eJxljbkN...
Post edited at 19:52
1
1
In reply to Dave Cumberland:
Hi Dave. My guess is you have climbed extensively in the lakes many years ago, you are now retired and emigrated to a hot country where you sit on your deck chair next to the swimming pool posting on ukc that conditions aren't in regardless of current conditions. Hoping to put at least 10
% off climbing. Reason unknown, maybe out of some protecting instinct of the thing you once loved and can no longer do?
Hi Dave. My guess is you have climbed extensively in the lakes many years ago, you are now retired and emigrated to a hot country where you sit on your deck chair next to the swimming pool posting on ukc that conditions aren't in regardless of current conditions. Hoping to put at least 10
% off climbing. Reason unknown, maybe out of some protecting instinct of the thing you once loved and can no longer do?
Post edited at 20:09
2
In reply to Exile:
Nor where we were, conditions were nice, well frozen and with some climbable ice.
On a general note there has been a large amount of snow transport on SW, W NW and N winds this weekend with the net result that there is a large amount of unconsolidated snow on NE-S aspects. Lots of this snow is graupel so I'd stay well away from any slopes of the above aspects and any gully aspects exposed to cross loading e.g Central Gully on Great End.
Nor where we were, conditions were nice, well frozen and with some climbable ice.
On a general note there has been a large amount of snow transport on SW, W NW and N winds this weekend with the net result that there is a large amount of unconsolidated snow on NE-S aspects. Lots of this snow is graupel so I'd stay well away from any slopes of the above aspects and any gully aspects exposed to cross loading e.g Central Gully on Great End.
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Wesley,
I always encourage intelligent people.
I sit at 300 metres in the Lake District and I climb a lot, here and elsewhere.
When you have served your apprenticeship you will be more respectful to experienced climbers.
Trying to wind people up from the perspective of a neophyte is not a good idea.
Just get out and climb the 5s and 6s and STFU.
DC
Wesley,
I always encourage intelligent people.
I sit at 300 metres in the Lake District and I climb a lot, here and elsewhere.
When you have served your apprenticeship you will be more respectful to experienced climbers.
Trying to wind people up from the perspective of a neophyte is not a good idea.
Just get out and climb the 5s and 6s and STFU.
DC
1
In reply to Dave Cumberland:
You are the only person who seems to be wound up Dave. I'm presuming that's the cause of your rudeness. I'm not sure why you would describe the hard neve I was cramponing up and down on, on Friday as "shiiiiiiiiite" conditions. Perhaps if you are only interested in 5 and 6s, then yes - there's not much ice and steep buttresses aren't particularly hoared up, but lots of other people have been having fun, just at lesser grades than your talent obviously interests you in.
> Trying to wind people up from the perspective of a neophyte is not a good idea.
> Just get out and climb the 5s and 6s and STFU.
> Just get out and climb the 5s and 6s and STFU.
You are the only person who seems to be wound up Dave. I'm presuming that's the cause of your rudeness. I'm not sure why you would describe the hard neve I was cramponing up and down on, on Friday as "shiiiiiiiiite" conditions. Perhaps if you are only interested in 5 and 6s, then yes - there's not much ice and steep buttresses aren't particularly hoared up, but lots of other people have been having fun, just at lesser grades than your talent obviously interests you in.
Ran around the Coniston fells today (Sun/18) including a solo 'ascent' of Easy Gully on Dow in fell running shoes.
The powder snow was waist deep in places providing very fine sport! Fantastic conditions for winter fell running.
DSM
The powder snow was waist deep in places providing very fine sport! Fantastic conditions for winter fell running.
DSM
In reply to Dave Cumberland:
If your who I think you are I do respect you. A lot. Did I meet you on the ferry over to the Isle of arran this summer ?
If your who I think you are I do respect you. A lot. Did I meet you on the ferry over to the Isle of arran this summer ?
Post edited at 20:29
1
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Wesley,
We are all climbers - never forget that - and respect is mutual.
Best Regards,
DC
Wesley,
We are all climbers - never forget that - and respect is mutual.
Best Regards,
DC
In reply to Dave Cumberland:
you're right, it's not one of the great cold spells and temp are modest but we turned back on the walk up Helvellyn today because we hadn't taken enough kit to cross the neve patches on flanks brown cove, the old snow had matured into something pretty solid.
The conditions were grand, 30 mile per hour from N. with pretty continuous snow fall.
Avalanchy
you're right, it's not one of the great cold spells and temp are modest but we turned back on the walk up Helvellyn today because we hadn't taken enough kit to cross the neve patches on flanks brown cove, the old snow had matured into something pretty solid.
The conditions were grand, 30 mile per hour from N. with pretty continuous snow fall.
Avalanchy
In reply to Simon Caldwell: Very sad. With emergency medicine being so amazing these days, it is all too easy to presume that if the MRT finds someone alive and gets them into a chopper, they're going to make it. But of course that can't always be the case. I suppose its just a credit to the professionalism of the MRTs (who are, of course, ironically volunteers), the air crews and medical staff at receiving hospitals that we presume this.
1
In reply to Daniel Duerden:
Was on Dollywagon and Fairfield yesterday but there was no useful climbing to be had.
Today, Was on Blencathra where the wind was blowing, with more sense I retired t'pub and t'music.
The driving was more fun.
DC
Was on Dollywagon and Fairfield yesterday but there was no useful climbing to be had.
Today, Was on Blencathra where the wind was blowing, with more sense I retired t'pub and t'music.
The driving was more fun.
DC
Hi all. First message ever for me on here. First thanks for all the great info, it's all been real helpful.
Could someone help....
Are you all in agreement to def stay away from the NE faces, eg swirrel edge, end of striding and red tarn climbs due to uncondolidated snow leading to avalanch risk.
Could someone help....
Are you all in agreement to def stay away from the NE faces, eg swirrel edge, end of striding and red tarn climbs due to uncondolidated snow leading to avalanch risk.
In reply to Removed Userdmbishop:
wind direction changed and most slopes facing all directions are pretty loaded, in some places we found large accumulations even low down, I would certainly stick to ridges or pick your route carefully for the time being. Especially after Tuesday/Wednesday a big dump due.
wind direction changed and most slopes facing all directions are pretty loaded, in some places we found large accumulations even low down, I would certainly stick to ridges or pick your route carefully for the time being. Especially after Tuesday/Wednesday a big dump due.
Post edited at 21:09
In reply to Dave Cumberland:
I fit into the totally mad crowd and had a great day on Right Buttress Crack on Brown Cove Crag, climbed the ice smear to the right on the first pitch then powder and frozen turf to the top.
Mark
Should have taken my goggles, megga spin drift.
I fit into the totally mad crowd and had a great day on Right Buttress Crack on Brown Cove Crag, climbed the ice smear to the right on the first pitch then powder and frozen turf to the top.
Mark
Should have taken my goggles, megga spin drift.
In reply to Dave Cumberland:
Dunmail was hilarious at 8am
Are you admitting to ratching round looking for conditions !!!
Dunmail was hilarious at 8am
Are you admitting to ratching round looking for conditions !!!
Post edited at 21:06
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In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Thank you vary much. How about along striding then at the end turn back around and go back.
Or do you have another advised grade 1 ridge
Thank you vary much. How about along striding then at the end turn back around and go back.
Or do you have another advised grade 1 ridge
In reply to Removed Userdmbishop:
Striding or Swirral will be fine, Sharp edge at the top end of the grade will be too. Or something like Jacks Rake will be great for a wintery scramble at the mo. Looked well covered today.
Striding or Swirral will be fine, Sharp edge at the top end of the grade will be too. Or something like Jacks Rake will be great for a wintery scramble at the mo. Looked well covered today.
In reply to Removed Userdmbishop:
The front of Red Screes was looking amazingly spicey tonight on the way over the pass. its a bit lower than the higher fells too and is easy to make grade 1 by picking short steps out direct from the pub or even grade 11 at the moment with the amount of ice visible this evening.
The front of Red Screes was looking amazingly spicey tonight on the way over the pass. its a bit lower than the higher fells too and is easy to make grade 1 by picking short steps out direct from the pub or even grade 11 at the moment with the amount of ice visible this evening.
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Thanks for your time. That's helpful. I'm normally in snowdonia but it's empty up there at the mo.
Cheers
Thanks for your time. That's helpful. I'm normally in snowdonia but it's empty up there at the mo.
Cheers
In reply to Alastair Cochran: climbed at brown cove today along with the rest of the workd it seems, didn't start climbing till 1pm as forecast seemed much better in afternoon. Good conditions on whole route, turf well frozen and ice in cracks with occasional ice smears to keep it interesting. Surprising amount of Neve, although often covered by slab, fairly obvious though, winds were fine this afternoon, climbed as a 3 so was slow going
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Climbed Pinnacle Ridge on Gable Crag today in good condition. The crag has been pretty scoured meaning the turf was exposed and frozen. Buttresses lightly iced and top half rimed. Two parties in front of us and another on something on Green Gable.
Powder snow on walk in/out was tough going in places!
Climbed Pinnacle Ridge on Gable Crag today in good condition. The crag has been pretty scoured meaning the turf was exposed and frozen. Buttresses lightly iced and top half rimed. Two parties in front of us and another on something on Green Gable.
Powder snow on walk in/out was tough going in places!
In reply to Alastair Cochran: Anyone been out in Blea water area lately ?
What are the ice falls like ?
JH
What are the ice falls like ?
JH
In reply to Jim Haydock:
They will be forming but not ready yet at a guess, most ice from running water was very soft yesterday
They will be forming but not ready yet at a guess, most ice from running water was very soft yesterday
We were the first to get on Great End yesterday. Avoided central gully, the snow was 12=24" of powder on top of 12" of graupel. We ended up freestyling a bit on the butresses and doing some of south east gully where the snow was firm enough and the ice was fat. Turf frozen from about 500-600m, good ice higher up.
Saw a couple of groups looking to head up central gully though.
Saw a couple of groups looking to head up central gully though.
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Has anyone been on left/right parallel gullies on Brown Cove? Hoping to take a newby up something easy tomorrow and wondering what the conditions are like? Is there much protection? I'd be happy soloing it but will want to stick a rope on given it's their first winter climb. Cheers!
Has anyone been on left/right parallel gullies on Brown Cove? Hoping to take a newby up something easy tomorrow and wondering what the conditions are like? Is there much protection? I'd be happy soloing it but will want to stick a rope on given it's their first winter climb. Cheers!
In reply to benji:
Not done it recently but from memory if its well banked out there isn`t much pro unless you want to start digging the gully sides out
Not done it recently but from memory if its well banked out there isn`t much pro unless you want to start digging the gully sides out
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Grade 1 gullies are notoriously difficult to find gear in. Maybe a grade II ridge with gear might be a safer option for a newbie ?
Grade 1 gullies are notoriously difficult to find gear in. Maybe a grade II ridge with gear might be a safer option for a newbie ?
In reply to benji:
Not been on either sorry, but folk may be interested to know that Right Buttress Crack @ Brown Cove Crags was in mighty fine condition a couple of hours ago.
Not been on either sorry, but folk may be interested to know that Right Buttress Crack @ Brown Cove Crags was in mighty fine condition a couple of hours ago.
In reply to benji:
Benji, we did Right Parallel Gulley yesterday. There was lots of slab and an easy plod up. I took my pal who's not mega experienced and we plodded up soloing with no worries. I think if you rope up and move together it should give your 2nd the confidence they need. Scant for gear otherwise.
Benji, we did Right Parallel Gulley yesterday. There was lots of slab and an easy plod up. I took my pal who's not mega experienced and we plodded up soloing with no worries. I think if you rope up and move together it should give your 2nd the confidence they need. Scant for gear otherwise.
Post edited at 15:14
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
How about the rib / buttress between left and right parallel gullies? Shown as a II - how does it compare with summer step for example?
How about the rib / buttress between left and right parallel gullies? Shown as a II - how does it compare with summer step for example?
In reply to RedFive:
I seem to remember parallel gullies rib being straightforward enough scramble except the fairly exposed middle section which is rather sparse if you require pro, unless you can whack a warthog into properly frozen turf
I seem to remember parallel gullies rib being straightforward enough scramble except the fairly exposed middle section which is rather sparse if you require pro, unless you can whack a warthog into properly frozen turf
In reply to Dave Cumberland:
A bit on the following blog showing quite how shiiiiiiiiite we found the crags were yesterday.
http://adriannelhams.blogspot.co.uk/
> The fells were absolute total shiiiiiiiiite today - AND yesterday.
A bit on the following blog showing quite how shiiiiiiiiite we found the crags were yesterday.
http://adriannelhams.blogspot.co.uk/
1
In reply to RedFive:
if you stick to over looking the gully for every move Summer step is much harder has much more protection and is a much better route. Although parallel gully rib is still a good route but as above you will have to move together for the Middle section as it's over 60m with no gear.
if you stick to over looking the gully for every move Summer step is much harder has much more protection and is a much better route. Although parallel gully rib is still a good route but as above you will have to move together for the Middle section as it's over 60m with no gear.
Post edited at 17:39
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Observations around the east face and edges of Helvellyn today : https://www.facebook.com/LakelandAscents/posts/756114764479582?notif_t=like
Observations around the east face and edges of Helvellyn today : https://www.facebook.com/LakelandAscents/posts/756114764479582?notif_t=like
In reply to Exile:
Nice work. I've been eyeing that area up for a while... Here's the conditions from Bottleneck blues on Great Gable and a few routes on Green gable over the weekend;
http://climbuniverse.tumblr.com/
Nice work. I've been eyeing that area up for a while... Here's the conditions from Bottleneck blues on Great Gable and a few routes on Green gable over the weekend;
http://climbuniverse.tumblr.com/
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Is summer step the route that's called stepped ridge in the scramble books Wesley,that runs up the edge of a gulley as opposed to stepped ridge in the winter guide book,what grade is that?
Is summer step the route that's called stepped ridge in the scramble books Wesley,that runs up the edge of a gulley as opposed to stepped ridge in the winter guide book,what grade is that?
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
Was the belayer from the other team dressed like a big orange snowman? If so I think that was us, we did wonder what you were up to!!
Was the belayer from the other team dressed like a big orange snowman? If so I think that was us, we did wonder what you were up to!!
In reply to Removed Usercraig123:
Yes that's correct the names swap round confusingly enough. Winter stepped ridge or summer Central buttress as it's known is grade III
Yes that's correct the names swap round confusingly enough. Winter stepped ridge or summer Central buttress as it's known is grade III
In reply to Removed UserTheShipsMast:
Could have been us you saw heading up towards central gully, we had decided against it by the time we walked in but went up to have a look at the base to confirm our thoughts.
Then went over and enjoyed Window Gully
> We were the first to get on Great End yesterday. Avoided central gully, the snow was 12=24" of powder on top of 12" of graupel. We ended up freestyling a bit on the butresses and doing some of south east gully where the snow was firm enough and the ice was fat. Turf frozen from about 500-600m, good ice higher up.
> Saw a couple of groups looking to head up central gully though.
Could have been us you saw heading up towards central gully, we had decided against it by the time we walked in but went up to have a look at the base to confirm our thoughts.
Then went over and enjoyed Window Gully
In reply to peebles boy:
Aye, that was us. We were keen to get on the line first, it gave good sustained reasonably well protected tech 5 climbing with a more technical slab that had more run outs and iffy gear.
Garden of Eden was excellent, pretty nails for III mind. Even by Lake District standards! Sounds like you had an interesting second day.
NMM
Aye, that was us. We were keen to get on the line first, it gave good sustained reasonably well protected tech 5 climbing with a more technical slab that had more run outs and iffy gear.
Garden of Eden was excellent, pretty nails for III mind. Even by Lake District standards! Sounds like you had an interesting second day.
NMM
Has anybody been up at Raven Crag at all recently? Wondering if Raven Crag gulley is in condition? Think it's doubtful, but worth an ask...
In reply to Madden:
The crag looked fairly snowed up as we drove past, but there won't be any neve and the ice in the gully might have formed by the end of the week if the frosts are good enough...
The crag looked fairly snowed up as we drove past, but there won't be any neve and the ice in the gully might have formed by the end of the week if the frosts are good enough...
1
In reply to Rog Wilko:
No, that's the simple answer. Pictures of it in my gallery from Feb 2009 when there was no ice on Derwent Water at all.
It might be in but thin at the end of the week. there are good rock belays though
No, that's the simple answer. Pictures of it in my gallery from Feb 2009 when there was no ice on Derwent Water at all.
It might be in but thin at the end of the week. there are good rock belays though
In reply to Jim Haydock:
Nothing 'in' up at blea water 2 days ago.
Pitch 1 of icefall/gill starting to freeze up but nowt good. Turf not frozen until very close to summit and birketts gully full of waist high powder.
Nothing 'in' up at blea water 2 days ago.
Pitch 1 of icefall/gill starting to freeze up but nowt good. Turf not frozen until very close to summit and birketts gully full of waist high powder.
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Scafell 2pm
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.893550650666705/893550...
Scafell 2pm
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.893550650666705/893550...
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
If your looking for climbing conditions in the lakes don't bother at all with the sw corner. Went up wetherlam today to check out North and South gully. Hollow ice shite snow and unfrozen turf absolute rubbish conditions. Summited and headed back down popped over to red screes and did some small ice falls and the kilnshaw chimney much better conditions and made up for the shite on wetherlam. Stay East for better conditions.
If your looking for climbing conditions in the lakes don't bother at all with the sw corner. Went up wetherlam today to check out North and South gully. Hollow ice shite snow and unfrozen turf absolute rubbish conditions. Summited and headed back down popped over to red screes and did some small ice falls and the kilnshaw chimney much better conditions and made up for the shite on wetherlam. Stay East for better conditions.
Post edited at 18:33
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
there was ice in scree's great gully r h branch (visible from road), can't really believe it could be climbable
there was ice in scree's great gully r h branch (visible from road), can't really believe it could be climbable
Post edited at 19:30
In reply to John Kelly:
the ice falls on red screes are climbable but wouldn't take a screw but defo weight bearing.
the ice falls on red screes are climbable but wouldn't take a screw but defo weight bearing.
Post edited at 19:40
In reply to John Kelly:
Ah with you was thinking there was a great gully on red screes then. Raven crag lh in East cove looked chocked with ice on the glissade down.
Ah with you was thinking there was a great gully on red screes then. Raven crag lh in East cove looked chocked with ice on the glissade down.
2
In reply to John Kelly:
The problem with that route is the lower pitches in Great Gully form more slowly and less well than the right hand branch icefall - when we did it the icefall was in very good condition and the lower 2 pitches were very thin and protectionless, good fun though and a really great route
The problem with that route is the lower pitches in Great Gully form more slowly and less well than the right hand branch icefall - when we did it the icefall was in very good condition and the lower 2 pitches were very thin and protectionless, good fun though and a really great route
1
1
In reply to LakesWinter:
I think the RHB seems to form fairly quickly
what i think is the main gully looks really scary in the video below
youtube.com/watch?v=RMzQrDI_M24&
it's an awesome route/location
I think the RHB seems to form fairly quickly
what i think is the main gully looks really scary in the video below
youtube.com/watch?v=RMzQrDI_M24&
it's an awesome route/location
1
In reply to John Kelly:
Yeah the early shots are of the scary first 2 pitches, great video, cheers for sharing.
Yeah the early shots are of the scary first 2 pitches, great video, cheers for sharing.
1
Can anyone offer advice on where is likely to be good for some routes around grade II this weekend?
Have climbed pretty much everything at that grade in Brown Cove so looking elsewhere. Is summit route at Low Water Crag likely to be worthwhile?
Any advice is appreciated!
Have climbed pretty much everything at that grade in Brown Cove so looking elsewhere. Is summit route at Low Water Crag likely to be worthwhile?
Any advice is appreciated!
In reply to gfpowell:
The southern lakes is apparently less well frozen - Window Gully on great End is a very good route and likely to be ok on Saturday as long as there is not too much fresh snowfall.
Gable was well frozen last weekend, although there is less good stuff at grade 2 there
The southern lakes is apparently less well frozen - Window Gully on great End is a very good route and likely to be ok on Saturday as long as there is not too much fresh snowfall.
Gable was well frozen last weekend, although there is less good stuff at grade 2 there
In reply to gfpowell:
South East Gully on Great End is more 2 than 3 with an average amount of snow and that was done on Weds too, good line, window has more ice pitches though it is easy enough to do both in a day.
South East Gully on Great End is more 2 than 3 with an average amount of snow and that was done on Weds too, good line, window has more ice pitches though it is easy enough to do both in a day.
In reply to gfpowell:
just been chatting to bloke who had been scratting around crinkle crags and found no conditions
there was fresh snow last night
Jacks Rake might be good, 450m of snowed up rock scrambling and well worth a II whatever the guide says
just been chatting to bloke who had been scratting around crinkle crags and found no conditions
there was fresh snow last night
Jacks Rake might be good, 450m of snowed up rock scrambling and well worth a II whatever the guide says
Post edited at 16:39
1
In reply to gfpowell:
snow level in langdale this pm
https://www.facebook.com/NTSticklebarn/photos/a.430854583630322.91132.30716...
snow level in langdale this pm
https://www.facebook.com/NTSticklebarn/photos/a.430854583630322.91132.30716...
In reply to John Kelly:
What's the chances of a shot up towards Bowfell before 6.00am on Saturday morning fella?!
What's the chances of a shot up towards Bowfell before 6.00am on Saturday morning fella?!
In reply to Exile/MFB/Lakes Winter:
Chaps - you guys have some very good Lakes knowledge. The stars had aligned this coming weekend in terms of my wife not having shifts so could be with the kids if I went away, and then a partner who was psyched for winter climbing and has a car - so was all set to go to Scotland BUT the final star of a decent weather forecast hasn't aligned! Nevertheless, much better than nothing is a day trip to the Lakes on Saturday while it's still cold - but have you got any route recommendations? I'd like something challenging for me, but not too dangerous - maybe IV,5 or IV,6. It sounds like Eastern areas might be better, but all the crags I can think of in the Fairfield - Helvellyn line tend to be East facing don't they? And it sounds like with lots of fresh snow and more forecast on Saturday, and westerly winds I guess safe access could be tricky... Bowfell/Cambridge Crags are similar in aspect too I think?
Any interesting suggestions?
Chaps - you guys have some very good Lakes knowledge. The stars had aligned this coming weekend in terms of my wife not having shifts so could be with the kids if I went away, and then a partner who was psyched for winter climbing and has a car - so was all set to go to Scotland BUT the final star of a decent weather forecast hasn't aligned! Nevertheless, much better than nothing is a day trip to the Lakes on Saturday while it's still cold - but have you got any route recommendations? I'd like something challenging for me, but not too dangerous - maybe IV,5 or IV,6. It sounds like Eastern areas might be better, but all the crags I can think of in the Fairfield - Helvellyn line tend to be East facing don't they? And it sounds like with lots of fresh snow and more forecast on Saturday, and westerly winds I guess safe access could be tricky... Bowfell/Cambridge Crags are similar in aspect too I think?
Any interesting suggestions?
In reply to TobyA:
Have you got the guidebook? It needs to have an open aspect to the W (i.e. not hemmed into a corrie like Black Buttress in Deepdale). The Gables were in great condition last weekend and judging by the snap thaw and WNW refreeze after I'd expect Great Gable could be good on Saturday, although it doesn't hold the snow that well... Would hoar up quickly with cloud getting blown onto the crag though. I would imagine Brown Cove would be mobbed as usual and the FL might not quite be low enough for St Sunday crag...
NMM
Have you got the guidebook? It needs to have an open aspect to the W (i.e. not hemmed into a corrie like Black Buttress in Deepdale). The Gables were in great condition last weekend and judging by the snap thaw and WNW refreeze after I'd expect Great Gable could be good on Saturday, although it doesn't hold the snow that well... Would hoar up quickly with cloud getting blown onto the crag though. I would imagine Brown Cove would be mobbed as usual and the FL might not quite be low enough for St Sunday crag...
NMM
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
Yep, have the got the guide. Does Gable face west then? From memory don't the routes jump from III to V or harder though? I'd like to do a route on Scrubby sometime but its the same thing - the III ridge or get involved at V,6 or harder. I've climbed V,6 in Scotland a long time ago but I'm not sure if a) Lakes V is harder and b) I would still be competent enough! I'm a way better ice climber than I used to be, but have done only a couple of UK mixed routes since 2000 when I was last living in the UK - so I might be very out of practice!
Yep, have the got the guide. Does Gable face west then? From memory don't the routes jump from III to V or harder though? I'd like to do a route on Scrubby sometime but its the same thing - the III ridge or get involved at V,6 or harder. I've climbed V,6 in Scotland a long time ago but I'm not sure if a) Lakes V is harder and b) I would still be competent enough! I'm a way better ice climber than I used to be, but have done only a couple of UK mixed routes since 2000 when I was last living in the UK - so I might be very out of practice!
In reply to LakesWinter:
>Window Gully on great End is a very good route and likely to be ok on Saturday as long as there is not too much fresh snowfall.
It was warming up in there this afternoon.
The Icefall variant on the R was wetting up quite quickly at 14:30 today.
The exposed turf is well frozen, but any buried under snow is not.
In the main Gully.
Some good ice interspersed with patches of soft snow but perfectly climbable.
Somebody soloing stopped to take a couple of shots of me seconding the icefall.
If you read this any chance of a copy?
>Window Gully on great End is a very good route and likely to be ok on Saturday as long as there is not too much fresh snowfall.
It was warming up in there this afternoon.
The Icefall variant on the R was wetting up quite quickly at 14:30 today.
The exposed turf is well frozen, but any buried under snow is not.
In the main Gully.
Some good ice interspersed with patches of soft snow but perfectly climbable.
Somebody soloing stopped to take a couple of shots of me seconding the icefall.
If you read this any chance of a copy?
Post edited at 20:04
In reply to TobyA:
I'll come clean - I'm going up towards Bowfell on Saturday morning. The conditions will either be great because the rain will wet out the snow and then freeze, or poor as the rain will have washed the snow off. Bowfell Buttress is obviously the classic choice. It is steady Scottish V 6 rather than sandbag Lakes V 6. If you don't fancy that, or it's busy, then Plaque route to the left is pretty good and steady at IV 4. There are also a lot of routes on Cambridge Crag but my experience of these routes so far is that they are tough for the grade. If you are worried about accessing the routes from the climbers traverse from The Band then it is just as quick, although a little more brutal, to walk up Mickledon, up the Rossett Gill path and then straight up to the buttress from the southern hairpine on the path, (obvious on an OS map.) Feel free to email if you want more info' or mobile number to chat.
Huw
I'll come clean - I'm going up towards Bowfell on Saturday morning. The conditions will either be great because the rain will wet out the snow and then freeze, or poor as the rain will have washed the snow off. Bowfell Buttress is obviously the classic choice. It is steady Scottish V 6 rather than sandbag Lakes V 6. If you don't fancy that, or it's busy, then Plaque route to the left is pretty good and steady at IV 4. There are also a lot of routes on Cambridge Crag but my experience of these routes so far is that they are tough for the grade. If you are worried about accessing the routes from the climbers traverse from The Band then it is just as quick, although a little more brutal, to walk up Mickledon, up the Rossett Gill path and then straight up to the buttress from the southern hairpine on the path, (obvious on an OS map.) Feel free to email if you want more info' or mobile number to chat.
Huw
2
In reply to TobyA:
Two grooves on brown cove is a good IV,6 but as someone else mentioned, it might be a bit packed there this weekend.
Two grooves on brown cove is a good IV,6 but as someone else mentioned, it might be a bit packed there this weekend.
In reply to TobyA:
If you want something West facing in the East then Rampsgill Head may be worth a look, but I haven't climbed there yet so can't give any info' on route choice / quality or weather conditions that may bring it in well.
If you want something West facing in the East then Rampsgill Head may be worth a look, but I haven't climbed there yet so can't give any info' on route choice / quality or weather conditions that may bring it in well.
1
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Immaculate snow and weather on Sharp Edge this morning - http://johnfleetwood.smugmug.com/Mountainsfolder/LakeDistrict/Blencathra/Sh...
Immaculate snow and weather on Sharp Edge this morning - http://johnfleetwood.smugmug.com/Mountainsfolder/LakeDistrict/Blencathra/Sh...
In reply to Exile:
It's good, but the ridge/col to the W shelters it a bit from the Westerlies too much I think... the buttresses do stick out though and the E will hold the cold air and snow better as the front moves over...
I'd be interested to hear how you get on Huw. I've got an exam on Saturday morning, grrr.
NMM
It's good, but the ridge/col to the W shelters it a bit from the Westerlies too much I think... the buttresses do stick out though and the E will hold the cold air and snow better as the front moves over...
I'd be interested to hear how you get on Huw. I've got an exam on Saturday morning, grrr.
NMM
Post edited at 21:50
1
In reply to RedFive:
Came down Custs today, easy snow plodding with several steep steps with ice, you have to squirm up or in our case side underneath the small chockstone, that usually in a snowy winter gets covered over, not hard just a little awkward with a big sack.
Window Gully is the better of the gullies at the mo.
Came down Custs today, easy snow plodding with several steep steps with ice, you have to squirm up or in our case side underneath the small chockstone, that usually in a snowy winter gets covered over, not hard just a little awkward with a big sack.
Window Gully is the better of the gullies at the mo.
In reply to TobyA:
Gable crag is N facing but is open to the west (i.e. there's no ridge getting in the way), so strong westerlies go across the crag and hit any buttresses that stick out. Especially as they accelerate through windy gap. Did Bottleneck blues last weekend, which was excellent but more like stiff IV,5** (rather than the guidebook IV,4*). Have also done Oblique Reference up there which was also pretty tough for IV. Garden of Eden on Green Gable was good last weekend, although harder than III!
NMM
Gable crag is N facing but is open to the west (i.e. there's no ridge getting in the way), so strong westerlies go across the crag and hit any buttresses that stick out. Especially as they accelerate through windy gap. Did Bottleneck blues last weekend, which was excellent but more like stiff IV,5** (rather than the guidebook IV,4*). Have also done Oblique Reference up there which was also pretty tough for IV. Garden of Eden on Green Gable was good last weekend, although harder than III!
NMM
1
In reply to gfpowell:
Soft snow around red screes area tonight. Turf generally unfrozen. Kilnshaw chimney was very little ice in it and banked out with firm snow making it very easy going.
Looked to be 4 people having great fun sledging by head torch above the pub
Soft snow around red screes area tonight. Turf generally unfrozen. Kilnshaw chimney was very little ice in it and banked out with firm snow making it very easy going.
Looked to be 4 people having great fun sledging by head torch above the pub
In reply to TobyA:
my running order of reliability for Saturday
1 helvellyn - because it was grand on Monday
2 gable - it looked good on Wednesday but i haven't been closer than foot of hill
3 bowfell - normally very reliable (and higher up list)but had bad report today so maybe not
depending what happens friday evening/ sat am it could go either way for me -changeble
worth pointing out i have a lousy track record of weather forecasting and frequently get lost
my running order of reliability for Saturday
1 helvellyn - because it was grand on Monday
2 gable - it looked good on Wednesday but i haven't been closer than foot of hill
3 bowfell - normally very reliable (and higher up list)but had bad report today so maybe not
depending what happens friday evening/ sat am it could go either way for me -changeble
worth pointing out i have a lousy track record of weather forecasting and frequently get lost
Post edited at 22:37
2
In reply to John Kelly/NMM/Exile: Thanks very much gentlemen! Currently reading up on Rampsgill Head Crag in the guide - lots at the grades I'm interested in and not East facing. Should be well above the freezing line on Saturday too according to the forecast.
1
In reply to TobyA:
Well central ridge is good on rampsgill, but it depends if it has frozen down. It is the most likely route to freeze as it sticks out quite a bit, 1 easy pitch and 2 good ones.
Well central ridge is good on rampsgill, but it depends if it has frozen down. It is the most likely route to freeze as it sticks out quite a bit, 1 easy pitch and 2 good ones.
1
In reply to TobyA:
O yeah and that grade 3 ridge on scrubby is definitely grade 4 in Scottish terms, it's also worth the 3 stars but needs well frozen turf.
O yeah and that grade 3 ridge on scrubby is definitely grade 4 in Scottish terms, it's also worth the 3 stars but needs well frozen turf.
1
In reply to Davinamo:
Thanks mate.
Not climbing until Tuesday - may be Central Gully on Brown Cove (the one formerly known as Left Branch) might be better bet - once the crowds have gone from this weekend....Hope there is still the small ice pitch at the start....hoping to get some good reports from this weekend.
I see there was a nasty incident there yesterday, take care all.
Thanks mate.
Not climbing until Tuesday - may be Central Gully on Brown Cove (the one formerly known as Left Branch) might be better bet - once the crowds have gone from this weekend....Hope there is still the small ice pitch at the start....hoping to get some good reports from this weekend.
I see there was a nasty incident there yesterday, take care all.
In reply to Exile:
Huw,
Really interested to know how bowfell / shelter crag is looking this weekend. Had been planning to head that way myself but wife has done her back in so having to postpone until next weekend now.
Would also be good to know how the other side of the valley looks too, did the scramble up south face of pike o stickle this summer and quite fancy it as a winter day out, but suspect it may be pretty bare.
Huw,
Really interested to know how bowfell / shelter crag is looking this weekend. Had been planning to head that way myself but wife has done her back in so having to postpone until next weekend now.
Would also be good to know how the other side of the valley looks too, did the scramble up south face of pike o stickle this summer and quite fancy it as a winter day out, but suspect it may be pretty bare.
Post edited at 10:06
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
We climbed on Brown Cove Crags yesterday, nice conditions with neve, ice and frozen turf,
A late start after being stuck in traffic on the A1 meant we only had time for a couple of routes, Central Gully and Left Branch. Hope the thaw thats coming isn't too prolonged.
A few images from the day at
http://paulhorsmanphotographer.blogspot.co.uk
We climbed on Brown Cove Crags yesterday, nice conditions with neve, ice and frozen turf,
A late start after being stuck in traffic on the A1 meant we only had time for a couple of routes, Central Gully and Left Branch. Hope the thaw thats coming isn't too prolonged.
A few images from the day at
http://paulhorsmanphotographer.blogspot.co.uk
Post edited at 10:29
In reply to paulh.0776:
Cheers Paul, pictures are perfect for understanding the conditions - that's the route I'm planning for next week.
Selfishly, I hope it stays for Tuesday - turbo thaw forecast again
Cheers Paul, pictures are perfect for understanding the conditions - that's the route I'm planning for next week.
Selfishly, I hope it stays for Tuesday - turbo thaw forecast again
Hi all.
I was wondering if you could let me know if there is still climbable snow up there. Grade 1 or 2 around hellvellyn.
I got a 4.5 hr drive leaving at 4 in the morning to get to there. So would be nice to have an idea.
Many thanks
I was wondering if you could let me know if there is still climbable snow up there. Grade 1 or 2 around hellvellyn.
I got a 4.5 hr drive leaving at 4 in the morning to get to there. So would be nice to have an idea.
Many thanks
In reply to Removed Userdmbishop:
currently 6c in langdale, rain has just stopped, forecast colder, i think there will be plenty snow left above 600m - maybe
currently 6c in langdale, rain has just stopped, forecast colder, i think there will be plenty snow left above 600m - maybe
1
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Can anyone recommend a crag route around II/III in the Lakes as I'm considering going down on Sunday? I've only winter climbed in Scotland before.
Can anyone recommend a crag route around II/III in the Lakes as I'm considering going down on Sunday? I've only winter climbed in Scotland before.
In reply to blackreaver:
Join the crowds at Brown Cove Crags, only 45 mins walk-in to 800m. Actually a good introduction despite the popularity because it has several amenable routes at I-III and route finding is simply a matter of followng the party in front!!
Join the crowds at Brown Cove Crags, only 45 mins walk-in to 800m. Actually a good introduction despite the popularity because it has several amenable routes at I-III and route finding is simply a matter of followng the party in front!!
In reply to BnB:
never seen crowds like there was today at swirls car park and ajacacent parking areas. We did sharp edge in great conditions and the easiest it has ever been could just walk right over it much easier than when fresh powder which is when I normally do it and we had it to ourselves. But on the way passed swirls on the way there and back the sheer amount of cars and people about was unbelievable.
never seen crowds like there was today at swirls car park and ajacacent parking areas. We did sharp edge in great conditions and the easiest it has ever been could just walk right over it much easier than when fresh powder which is when I normally do it and we had it to ourselves. But on the way passed swirls on the way there and back the sheer amount of cars and people about was unbelievable.
Post edited at 17:32
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Judging off how much we lost yesterday can't see much if any making it through tomorrow.
Judging off how much we lost yesterday can't see much if any making it through tomorrow.
Post edited at 17:42
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
bowfell butress 2 hrs ago
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.894820617206375/894820...
beginning to melt at top
bowfell butress 2 hrs ago
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.894820617206375/894820...
beginning to melt at top
1
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Lots of slab around today on a surprising number of different aspects, even in not-so-sheltered locations. Had a ½ meter block shear very easily on a NE, then again on a SE. On top of this weak layer there is another poorly bonded layer of slab about 6" deep. I was hoping that last night's rain would have helped to consolidate things higher up, but it hasn't. Still loads of snow above 700m though, but scoured on windward slopes.
Lots of slab around today on a surprising number of different aspects, even in not-so-sheltered locations. Had a ½ meter block shear very easily on a NE, then again on a SE. On top of this weak layer there is another poorly bonded layer of slab about 6" deep. I was hoping that last night's rain would have helped to consolidate things higher up, but it hasn't. Still loads of snow above 700m though, but scoured on windward slopes.
Post edited at 18:04
In reply to Si Withington:
where was that then - i was pleasantly suprised by the stability of snow on bowfell today
where was that then - i was pleasantly suprised by the stability of snow on bowfell today
1
In reply to Si Withington:
Same on Blencsthra Si semi frozen layer on top of 6 inch of powder on top of old neve. The top layer pulled off with very minor weight in fact off hand strength alone. SE facing cornice at about 700m above the path.
Same on Blencsthra Si semi frozen layer on top of 6 inch of powder on top of old neve. The top layer pulled off with very minor weight in fact off hand strength alone. SE facing cornice at about 700m above the path.
Post edited at 18:29
1
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
I was on Red Screes this afternoon, all very soft up to the top then just a crust over the snow. Some ice formed over the far side though ....may have to go north for the next week or so.
few pics at...
http://paulhorsmanphotographer.blogspot.co.uk
I was on Red Screes this afternoon, all very soft up to the top then just a crust over the snow. Some ice formed over the far side though ....may have to go north for the next week or so.
few pics at...
http://paulhorsmanphotographer.blogspot.co.uk
1
In reply to John Kelly:
They are our footprints!
Good climbing on Cambridge Crags today. We did Rib and Groove which is a very good route. Two other teams on the crag.
They are our footprints!
Good climbing on Cambridge Crags today. We did Rib and Groove which is a very good route. Two other teams on the crag.
3
In reply to Exile:
think i saw your second man on final steepening as i wandered underneath - didn't have my zoomy camera
think i saw your second man on final steepening as i wandered underneath - didn't have my zoomy camera
Post edited at 20:35
In reply to paulh.0776:
....may have to go north for the next week or so.
No need going cold again late Wednesday onwards.
Gullies are bound to survive till then. Although I am in Scotland for 4 days from Friday myself 😀
....may have to go north for the next week or so.
No need going cold again late Wednesday onwards.
Gullies are bound to survive till then. Although I am in Scotland for 4 days from Friday myself 😀
Post edited at 20:41
1
In reply to Wesley Orvis: another fallen on Brown cove today- bad leg injury. Kmrt up there twice in 3 days, I suppose it's the current honeypot crag, take care!
In reply to Tom the tall:
I think two at the same time we saw the helicopter going into browncove from blencathra. Another one in nethermost cove.
I think two at the same time we saw the helicopter going into browncove from blencathra. Another one in nethermost cove.
In reply to Exile:
Buttresses rather black and snow free on Rampsgill Head Crag today, but we got two gullies done on hard snow, frozen turf and dribbles of ice. North Gully was good fun although I'm not certain its really a *** route, and very pleased to find that I thought both felt rather easy for their grades! Doesn't often happen to me!
Very, very windy - quite brutal as a result - but no unstable snow around the crag as a result and plenty of sun and bits of blue sky. Cloud came in as we walked down, and some snow. I guess that will be rain before long
Buttresses rather black and snow free on Rampsgill Head Crag today, but we got two gullies done on hard snow, frozen turf and dribbles of ice. North Gully was good fun although I'm not certain its really a *** route, and very pleased to find that I thought both felt rather easy for their grades! Doesn't often happen to me!
Very, very windy - quite brutal as a result - but no unstable snow around the crag as a result and plenty of sun and bits of blue sky. Cloud came in as we walked down, and some snow. I guess that will be rain before long
Great End - today. Window gully - excellent conditions in the gully - great climbing. However, the two top alternative finishes were dripping wet at 1pm, so we continued up the gully. Cust's gully was unconsolidated and dripping/ rushing with water on our way down it. I don't think it dropped below zero all day.
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Had a lovely day on Helvellyn. Striding Edge in very good order and the headwall was a bit of fun. Approached high ground via Blea Cove. Picked a line up Nab Crag and got to firm neve/ice at about 550m. One or two pauses for thought when going through mixed bits! (I/II). Anybody ever recorded anything in that cove? It looks good from the Glenridding path.
Had a lovely day on Helvellyn. Striding Edge in very good order and the headwall was a bit of fun. Approached high ground via Blea Cove. Picked a line up Nab Crag and got to firm neve/ice at about 550m. One or two pauses for thought when going through mixed bits! (I/II). Anybody ever recorded anything in that cove? It looks good from the Glenridding path.
Sat/24th report for what its worth.
Ran from Dunmail up to Tarn Crag this afternoon. Ascended one of the easy gullies, descended its neighbor. Quite large cornices in evidence. Then ran over to St Sunday's for Pinnacle Ridge which was basically a walk with virtually snow-free rock throughout. Glad I'd taken axes though cos' I had to cut steps up the final icy snowslope (fell shoes no crampons!).
DSM
Ran from Dunmail up to Tarn Crag this afternoon. Ascended one of the easy gullies, descended its neighbor. Quite large cornices in evidence. Then ran over to St Sunday's for Pinnacle Ridge which was basically a walk with virtually snow-free rock throughout. Glad I'd taken axes though cos' I had to cut steps up the final icy snowslope (fell shoes no crampons!).
DSM
In reply to TobyA:
Did Juniper Groove on Scrubby in very pleasant icy conditions today. A short, but very very fine wee route, and definitely worth two stars.
Did Juniper Groove on Scrubby in very pleasant icy conditions today. A short, but very very fine wee route, and definitely worth two stars.
1
In reply to John Kelly:
There were a pair behind us in blue with sacs on, it may have been them. My second was in a black belay jacket (which he churlishly refused to surrender at belays - I pointed out that this made it a climbing jacket rather than a belay jacket but he was having non of it!)
There were a pair behind us in blue with sacs on, it may have been them. My second was in a black belay jacket (which he churlishly refused to surrender at belays - I pointed out that this made it a climbing jacket rather than a belay jacket but he was having non of it!)
2
In reply to Simon Yearsley:
What did the rest of the crag look like Simon - my memory of Juniper Groove is it stays whiter than the routes that climb the buttress face
What did the rest of the crag look like Simon - my memory of Juniper Groove is it stays whiter than the routes that climb the buttress face
In reply to TobyA:
Was wondering how you got on - do you think the snow on the buttresses was washed off Friday?
We were out of the wind climbing on Cambridge Crag, but even on the top it was nothing to speak of.
Was wondering how you got on - do you think the snow on the buttresses was washed off Friday?
We were out of the wind climbing on Cambridge Crag, but even on the top it was nothing to speak of.
In reply to Exile:
The rest was fairly black except the big traverse ledge and the wall section of Heorot... even this wasn't particularly white. Pendulum Ridge had snow on it. All the turf was very well frozen. Nice ice build-up though (not sure how much will survive), with the ice groove of Heorot almost in. The various ice lines on Hart crag were looking good and fat.
The rest was fairly black except the big traverse ledge and the wall section of Heorot... even this wasn't particularly white. Pendulum Ridge had snow on it. All the turf was very well frozen. Nice ice build-up though (not sure how much will survive), with the ice groove of Heorot almost in. The various ice lines on Hart crag were looking good and fat.
In reply to stuart58:
I did gully 3 on helvellyn yesterday- great conditions loads of ice. All gullys looked in good nick. Cornices were avoidable and didn't look too slumped to me. That will change today though.
I did gully 3 on helvellyn yesterday- great conditions loads of ice. All gullys looked in good nick. Cornices were avoidable and didn't look too slumped to me. That will change today though.
In reply to Simon Yearsley:
Simon, was it you and your partner we spoke to very briefly in the car park at about 7am? We were just sorting our kit out and two chaps arrived but couldn't remember which was the best car park for Scrubby! If so, hello again. We were looking across to Scrubby through the day and although there was way more snow over on the Helvellyn-Fairfield line than where we were, we did note that the steeper cliff, the blacker they looked from afar.
Would you say that Juniper Groove is fairly graded at V,6? I climbed V,6 in Scotland during my youth, and was pleased to find that the IV,5 I did yesterday felt rather straight forward so I really should try to lead V,6 this winter. And it looks like the Lakes is much more doable than Scotland under current life circumstances. It was Grendel on Scrubby that had grabbed my attention previously reading the guide, but someone in the logbook entry is even suggesting VII,7 might be closer to its grade! :-/
A few pics from my day here https://twitter.com/TobyinHelsinki/status/559287556429582337
Simon, was it you and your partner we spoke to very briefly in the car park at about 7am? We were just sorting our kit out and two chaps arrived but couldn't remember which was the best car park for Scrubby! If so, hello again. We were looking across to Scrubby through the day and although there was way more snow over on the Helvellyn-Fairfield line than where we were, we did note that the steeper cliff, the blacker they looked from afar.
Would you say that Juniper Groove is fairly graded at V,6? I climbed V,6 in Scotland during my youth, and was pleased to find that the IV,5 I did yesterday felt rather straight forward so I really should try to lead V,6 this winter. And it looks like the Lakes is much more doable than Scotland under current life circumstances. It was Grendel on Scrubby that had grabbed my attention previously reading the guide, but someone in the logbook entry is even suggesting VII,7 might be closer to its grade! :-/
A few pics from my day here https://twitter.com/TobyinHelsinki/status/559287556429582337
In reply to Exile:
Washed or melted I guess. There was lots of snow on the turfy ledges still so looking down the buttresses looked whiter, but from the base they looked bare. Plenty of dribbles of ice forming though, and on North Gully icing on the slab on the left provided good footholds and a few tool placements. The last (and in some ways the crux) chockstone was all bizarrely coated in water ice. I couldn't work out how stable it would be without it but it didn't pull when we both hauled on it!
Must just be the aspect as we got hammered by wind. Quite big ice chips would fly up the gullies from the second climbing and hit the belayer in the face many metres above! Glad I took my great big belay jacket to hide in.
> do you think the snow on the buttresses was washed off Friday?
Washed or melted I guess. There was lots of snow on the turfy ledges still so looking down the buttresses looked whiter, but from the base they looked bare. Plenty of dribbles of ice forming though, and on North Gully icing on the slab on the left provided good footholds and a few tool placements. The last (and in some ways the crux) chockstone was all bizarrely coated in water ice. I couldn't work out how stable it would be without it but it didn't pull when we both hauled on it!
> We were out of the wind climbing on Cambridge Crag, but even on the top it was nothing to speak of.
Must just be the aspect as we got hammered by wind. Quite big ice chips would fly up the gullies from the second climbing and hit the belayer in the face many metres above! Glad I took my great big belay jacket to hide in.
In reply to TobyA:
A little insider info. Walk up Dovedale , turn right before Black Crag (icefall) , steep but short, to cross the ridge and traverse the combe to the base of Scubby. Also good for Hart Crag. Usually best to descend by the track past Dove Crag. Amazingly direct and quick.
Don't try and compare Scottish winter climbing to Lakes. Its comparatively mickey mouse (lakes that is) and I used to find it easier to explain as "easy routes in poor condition ", not quite as applicable nowadays with the rise in mixed/dry tooling standards but still " welcome to Cumbria!"
A lot of sandbag grades but that's the way we like it.
Edit right not left Doh
> which was the best car park for Scrubby!
A little insider info. Walk up Dovedale , turn right before Black Crag (icefall) , steep but short, to cross the ridge and traverse the combe to the base of Scubby. Also good for Hart Crag. Usually best to descend by the track past Dove Crag. Amazingly direct and quick.
> . It was Grendel on Scrubby that had grabbed my attention previously reading the guide, but someone in the logbook entry is even suggesting VII,7 might be closer to its grade! :-/
Don't try and compare Scottish winter climbing to Lakes. Its comparatively mickey mouse (lakes that is) and I used to find it easier to explain as "easy routes in poor condition ", not quite as applicable nowadays with the rise in mixed/dry tooling standards but still " welcome to Cumbria!"
A lot of sandbag grades but that's the way we like it.
Edit right not left Doh
Post edited at 17:51
1
In reply to TobyA:
Hey Toby, yup, t'was me and Malcolm Bass who were suffering from a wee bit of "carpark confusion". Good to meet you guys. JG was very wintery, but the rest of the crag not so much so. Grade of V.6 felt about right, but we both felt the moves across the wall at the start of P2 were harder than than the moves in the groove of P1. JG is a cracking route - rather short but great climbing. Having grown up in the Lakes and done my formative climbing there, it's always a wonderful pleasure to climb here. summer or winter. It did feel a bit bizarre, having been in the wilds of Coigach 6 days before.
Hey Toby, yup, t'was me and Malcolm Bass who were suffering from a wee bit of "carpark confusion". Good to meet you guys. JG was very wintery, but the rest of the crag not so much so. Grade of V.6 felt about right, but we both felt the moves across the wall at the start of P2 were harder than than the moves in the groove of P1. JG is a cracking route - rather short but great climbing. Having grown up in the Lakes and done my formative climbing there, it's always a wonderful pleasure to climb here. summer or winter. It did feel a bit bizarre, having been in the wilds of Coigach 6 days before.
In reply to Simon Yearsley:
It's funny, but I had presumed that both of you chaps were Scots. I guess I've just associated your names with new routes in far NW! BTW, I recently bought Ines Papert's "Vertical", so I guess its one of your campers that make an appearance in there? She has done some great advertising for them! I now dream of spending a week in a cosy campervan doing top routes on Slioch or further north.
Thanks for the info on JG - one to add to the wish list I think.
It's funny, but I had presumed that both of you chaps were Scots. I guess I've just associated your names with new routes in far NW! BTW, I recently bought Ines Papert's "Vertical", so I guess its one of your campers that make an appearance in there? She has done some great advertising for them! I now dream of spending a week in a cosy campervan doing top routes on Slioch or further north.
Thanks for the info on JG - one to add to the wish list I think.
In reply to Simon Yearsley:
Thanks Simon. I was one of the team that did the first winter ascent of JG, (which makes me sound harder than I am!) on a similar sounding day. I'd like to say that we watched conditions and timed it to perfection, but we actually wandered up to the crag and climbed what looked most wintery. in my experience it can be a tricky crag to predict conditions on, which is why I asked.
Thanks Simon. I was one of the team that did the first winter ascent of JG, (which makes me sound harder than I am!) on a similar sounding day. I'd like to say that we watched conditions and timed it to perfection, but we actually wandered up to the crag and climbed what looked most wintery. in my experience it can be a tricky crag to predict conditions on, which is why I asked.
2
In reply to Daniel Duerden:
We did South east gully and found similar conditions powder ontop of neve ontop of un consolidated snow , there was ice on the main pitch (thankfully) but was expecting better conditions. We met you at the bottom of the crag before we walked off, someone in the car park said they had brilliant conditions on Pinnicle Ridge on Gable can only imagine its all gone down hill today.
Mark
We did South east gully and found similar conditions powder ontop of neve ontop of un consolidated snow , there was ice on the main pitch (thankfully) but was expecting better conditions. We met you at the bottom of the crag before we walked off, someone in the car park said they had brilliant conditions on Pinnicle Ridge on Gable can only imagine its all gone down hill today.
Mark
In reply to TobyA:
Lakes grades are more unpredictable than consistently sandbag. But given you've done Left Hand Route on Cambridge Crags, which is one of the harder IV 5s knocking about, in a 'short sharp' kind of way, I wouldn't worry if I were you.
Bowfell Buttress would be a good place to start, (in my opinion.)
> Would you say that Juniper Groove is fairly graded at V,6? I climbed V,6 in Scotland during my youth, and was pleased to find that the IV,5 I did yesterday felt rather straight forward
Lakes grades are more unpredictable than consistently sandbag. But given you've done Left Hand Route on Cambridge Crags, which is one of the harder IV 5s knocking about, in a 'short sharp' kind of way, I wouldn't worry if I were you.
> so I really should try to lead V,6 this winter.
Bowfell Buttress would be a good place to start, (in my opinion.)
1
In reply to TobyA:
Hey Toby, no Scots accent I'm afraid - a Yorkshireman brought up in The Lakes and moved north 12 years ago (and Malcolm is N Yorkshire born & bred... and very good at 5hr drives north every other Friday!). Yup, it's a Big Tree Campervan in Ines' book (plus me slagging off her whisky drinking abilities, and the lesser known fact that she filled the water tank of one of my vans with diesel!). Ines is over here in Feb for the Ft William Mtn Festival, and we'll be climbing together at some stage. Get yourselves up to Ft Bill for the Festival - it'll be a fine, fine do.
Hey Toby, no Scots accent I'm afraid - a Yorkshireman brought up in The Lakes and moved north 12 years ago (and Malcolm is N Yorkshire born & bred... and very good at 5hr drives north every other Friday!). Yup, it's a Big Tree Campervan in Ines' book (plus me slagging off her whisky drinking abilities, and the lesser known fact that she filled the water tank of one of my vans with diesel!). Ines is over here in Feb for the Ft William Mtn Festival, and we'll be climbing together at some stage. Get yourselves up to Ft Bill for the Festival - it'll be a fine, fine do.
Post edited at 20:21
1
In reply to Exile:
Nice one! You've created a great route, which, as you say, seems the most often wintery of the crag. Well done, must have been a great day when you did that!
Nice one! You've created a great route, which, as you say, seems the most often wintery of the crag. Well done, must have been a great day when you did that!
In reply to Exile:
Yeah, my memory has that one down as an utter sandbag!
Of course - yes, that would be tick of the winter. It was a "first date" climbing with the chap I was out with yesterday and we both had a cracking day, so I shall inquire whether he's up for BB; maybe next weekend!
> But given you've done Left Hand Route on Cambridge Crags, which is one of the harder IV 5s knocking about, in a 'short sharp' kind of way, I wouldn't worry if I were you.
Yeah, my memory has that one down as an utter sandbag!
> Bowfell Buttress would be a good place to start, (in my opinion.)
Of course - yes, that would be tick of the winter. It was a "first date" climbing with the chap I was out with yesterday and we both had a cracking day, so I shall inquire whether he's up for BB; maybe next weekend!
In reply to TobyA:
But given you've done Left Hand Route on Cambridge Crags, which is one of the harder IV 5s knocking about, in a 'short sharp' kind of way, I wouldn't worry if I were you.
Yeah, my memory has that one down as an utter sandbag!
I think Andy gave LH route V 6 on the FA. I agreed.
BD gave it IV 4 in the draft guide, I queried this but realised he must have done it with the start totally banked out.
He apparently did not revise the grade enough.
Well protected Tech 6 IMHO.
But given you've done Left Hand Route on Cambridge Crags, which is one of the harder IV 5s knocking about, in a 'short sharp' kind of way, I wouldn't worry if I were you.
Yeah, my memory has that one down as an utter sandbag!
I think Andy gave LH route V 6 on the FA. I agreed.
BD gave it IV 4 in the draft guide, I queried this but realised he must have done it with the start totally banked out.
He apparently did not revise the grade enough.
Well protected Tech 6 IMHO.
In reply to Rick Graham:
I was going to suggest that looking at the first ascentionists is a useful guide to whether the grade is likely to be accurate! I'm always wary of B Davison grades. I always assume that Lakeland IV is a similar grading to Scottish VS!
NMM
I was going to suggest that looking at the first ascentionists is a useful guide to whether the grade is likely to be accurate! I'm always wary of B Davison grades. I always assume that Lakeland IV is a similar grading to Scottish VS!
NMM
2
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
Grim. https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152639723883388&id=582543387&am...
Grim. https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152639723883388&id=582543387&am...
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
Grim. https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152639723883388&id=582543387&am...
Grim. https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152639723883388&id=582543387&am...
1
In reply to Wesley Orvis:
Cheers for the link. Turf should improve in the stonking NW at end of the week... I thought there wasn't actually much snow around in the W Lakes before the thaw. Still a bit of ice hanging in on LHG... Doubt it'll survive tonights rain though.
NMM
Cheers for the link. Turf should improve in the stonking NW at end of the week... I thought there wasn't actually much snow around in the W Lakes before the thaw. Still a bit of ice hanging in on LHG... Doubt it'll survive tonights rain though.
NMM
1
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
Has Brown cove crags held on to more snow and ice then?, people logged ascents of mixed routes yesterday, the mind boggles.
Has Brown cove crags held on to more snow and ice then?, people logged ascents of mixed routes yesterday, the mind boggles.
2
1
In reply to Andy Clarke1965:
Probably. The Lakes is full of microclimates. Generally the cold air gets scoured out of the west facing valleys the first when warm air comes in from the West. Which is one of the reasons why Great End often holds onto more snow than Great Gable.
The Helvellyn range and general horseshoe around Ullswater are the best areas for holding onto the cold air the longest. Although St Sunday crag strips fast as it's so open and warm air moves down Grisedale fairly easily. The deeper coves tend to hold onto it longer as warm air is often blown over the top first, rather than being blown straight onto the crag...
NMM
Probably. The Lakes is full of microclimates. Generally the cold air gets scoured out of the west facing valleys the first when warm air comes in from the West. Which is one of the reasons why Great End often holds onto more snow than Great Gable.
The Helvellyn range and general horseshoe around Ullswater are the best areas for holding onto the cold air the longest. Although St Sunday crag strips fast as it's so open and warm air moves down Grisedale fairly easily. The deeper coves tend to hold onto it longer as warm air is often blown over the top first, rather than being blown straight onto the crag...
NMM
1
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
Thanks for that mate. Always good to know how the mountains work
Thanks for that mate. Always good to know how the mountains work
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
Brilliant info. Now then, in the second half of this week the cold air is going to be blowing in from the west on Wednesday afternoon then veeering northerly to bring prolonged and deep cold. Which crags will come into condition first, specifically for Friday and Saturday when I will be there? Not expecting ice to form that fast so wind scoured mixed routes probably. Was thinking of ridges like Pinnacle (Gable) or Pendulum (Scrubby). Thoughts anyone?
Brilliant info. Now then, in the second half of this week the cold air is going to be blowing in from the west on Wednesday afternoon then veeering northerly to bring prolonged and deep cold. Which crags will come into condition first, specifically for Friday and Saturday when I will be there? Not expecting ice to form that fast so wind scoured mixed routes probably. Was thinking of ridges like Pinnacle (Gable) or Pendulum (Scrubby). Thoughts anyone?
In reply to BnB:
http://www.lakedistrictweatherline.co.uk/
I'm going to refrain from recommending crags/routes as doing that online has consequences. Watch to see how much snow falls, when it falls, what wind direction and how strong the wind is. Crags getting blasted by the wind will obviously freeze up the fastest, but topography can get in the way of that. Have you got the relevant OS maps and guidebook?
NMM
http://www.lakedistrictweatherline.co.uk/
I'm going to refrain from recommending crags/routes as doing that online has consequences. Watch to see how much snow falls, when it falls, what wind direction and how strong the wind is. Crags getting blasted by the wind will obviously freeze up the fastest, but topography can get in the way of that. Have you got the relevant OS maps and guidebook?
NMM
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
Thansk but just to put your reply in context, I have met office, mwis, metcheck, yr.no and xcweather on permanent feed and I lived in the Lakes in my youth and completed all the Wainwrights before you were born, God, I've waited a long time to be able to say that
So yes I probably have enough backgound knowledge thanks as well as the maps and guides. I don't on the other hand have time to wait until Tuesday when the weather will have settled down and the cold will have lasted a full five days. I will be arriving in the heart of the storm on Friday morning to enjoy, for two days only, the best that winter will offer and one area of Lakes experience I lack relates to ice/mixed climbing conditions, being a relative newbie to the discipline. My hunch is that west facing crags like Green Gable or Black Crag on Scafell will be the best bets earlier as in a freezing W-NWerly airflow they should be scoured yet rimed and present a lower avalanche danger in the event of high snowfall. Similarly I would tend to favour prominent ridges with a reputation for coming into condition fast like the ones I mentioned in my last post. Nevertheless, any more helpful suggestions would be appreciated.
Thansk but just to put your reply in context, I have met office, mwis, metcheck, yr.no and xcweather on permanent feed and I lived in the Lakes in my youth and completed all the Wainwrights before you were born, God, I've waited a long time to be able to say that
So yes I probably have enough backgound knowledge thanks as well as the maps and guides. I don't on the other hand have time to wait until Tuesday when the weather will have settled down and the cold will have lasted a full five days. I will be arriving in the heart of the storm on Friday morning to enjoy, for two days only, the best that winter will offer and one area of Lakes experience I lack relates to ice/mixed climbing conditions, being a relative newbie to the discipline. My hunch is that west facing crags like Green Gable or Black Crag on Scafell will be the best bets earlier as in a freezing W-NWerly airflow they should be scoured yet rimed and present a lower avalanche danger in the event of high snowfall. Similarly I would tend to favour prominent ridges with a reputation for coming into condition fast like the ones I mentioned in my last post. Nevertheless, any more helpful suggestions would be appreciated.
In reply to BnB:
Fair play. Your hunches seem pretty accurate to me! I've tended to find that Lakeland vegetation freezes up better and quicker after a freeze-thaw even if the snow has disappeared...
NMM
Fair play. Your hunches seem pretty accurate to me! I've tended to find that Lakeland vegetation freezes up better and quicker after a freeze-thaw even if the snow has disappeared...
NMM
In reply to Northern Mountain Monkey:
Cheers. We may just be a couple of days early but in that case we'll enjoy the wild conditions!!
Cheers. We may just be a couple of days early but in that case we'll enjoy the wild conditions!!
1
In reply to BnB:
Got blown off Swirral Edge today, not literally, but the snow was very soft or melting/sparse to say the least, turf was sodden and it was well above freezing and raining most of the day. Did meet a few people who managed to complete a Helvellyn circuit and some who emerged from Brown Cove. It's going to have to snow like mad and get much colder to give anything resembling decent winter conditions.
Got blown off Swirral Edge today, not literally, but the snow was very soft or melting/sparse to say the least, turf was sodden and it was well above freezing and raining most of the day. Did meet a few people who managed to complete a Helvellyn circuit and some who emerged from Brown Cove. It's going to have to snow like mad and get much colder to give anything resembling decent winter conditions.
In reply to baron:
Well the forecasts suggests it's going to do just that. Have a look at the next 5 days. http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/mountain-forecasts/lake-district...
But we could do with the freeze preceding the snow.
> It's going to have to snow like mad and get much colder to give anything resembling decent winter conditions.
Well the forecasts suggests it's going to do just that. Have a look at the next 5 days. http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/weather/mountain-forecasts/lake-district...
But we could do with the freeze preceding the snow.
In reply to BnB:
The cold temps and snowfall sound good but the gusts up to 75mph should prove interesting
The cold temps and snowfall sound good but the gusts up to 75mph should prove interesting
In reply to baron:
Most of my mountaineering is on Skye so it'll feel like a normal fresh breeze
Will be wary of leeward gullies and slopes however.
Most of my mountaineering is on Skye so it'll feel like a normal fresh breeze
Will be wary of leeward gullies and slopes however.
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
langdale 1hr ago
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.896509800370790/896508...
langdale 1hr ago
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.896509800370790/896508...
3
In reply to BnB: If you've spent any time in Scotland them this weekend in the Lakes will be like a nice summer's day!
p.s. It was snowing in Ullswater this afternoon and blowing a gale - tops were much whiter than yesterday but looked like more of a dusting than a deep cover. Wind was cold but everywhere was still dripping wet. Still, things are moving in the right direction.
Pmc
p.s. It was snowing in Ullswater this afternoon and blowing a gale - tops were much whiter than yesterday but looked like more of a dusting than a deep cover. Wind was cold but everywhere was still dripping wet. Still, things are moving in the right direction.
Pmc
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Snowing heavily in Outgate (nr Hawkshead) now, roads are covered and the cars are struggling on the B roads. There is a good covering down to 100m alt. This should contribute to the covering on the high fells nicely, it just needs to consolidate!
Snowing heavily in Outgate (nr Hawkshead) now, roads are covered and the cars are struggling on the B roads. There is a good covering down to 100m alt. This should contribute to the covering on the high fells nicely, it just needs to consolidate!
In reply to robbo1row:
Has anyone been out today, anything to report? How cold has it been and is there any decent ice higher up? Any information much appreciated
Has anyone been out today, anything to report? How cold has it been and is there any decent ice higher up? Any information much appreciated
1
In reply to ebdon:
just low level scrambling
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.897282733626830/897282...
just low level scrambling
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.897282733626830/897282...
1
In reply to John Kelly:
Are the roads reasonably OK John? If you're sensible like.
We've scheduled another 4 am departure for tomorrow morning! It looks a bit like there is less low level snow in the Lakes than here in South Yorkshire, but I'm sure ice might be an issue.
Are the roads reasonably OK John? If you're sensible like.
We've scheduled another 4 am departure for tomorrow morning! It looks a bit like there is less low level snow in the Lakes than here in South Yorkshire, but I'm sure ice might be an issue.
1
In reply to John Kelly:
the other link is broke - operator error
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.897314376956999/897310...
the other link is broke - operator error
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.897314376956999/897310...
In reply to TobyA:
langdale is fine - been gritted and snow free as far as old dungeon ghyll
langdale is fine - been gritted and snow free as far as old dungeon ghyll
Post edited at 16:35
In reply to ebdon:
it was an absolutely brilliant trip out - climbing was just like summers day (with a bit of snow) but the descent was tricky, on my insistence we took a rope
it was an absolutely brilliant trip out - climbing was just like summers day (with a bit of snow) but the descent was tricky, on my insistence we took a rope
In reply to ebdon:
Hi, few photos and a bit of info about Red Tarn area today - http://www.mountaincircles.com/blog/
A lot of hard scoured neve about, SE slopes have most of the fresh snow on with cross-loading across the East facing slopes.. This is easy to spot on the Red Tarn face but probably easily worked around as well, some in the gullies today and were climbing on mainly old hard snow and avoiding pockets of wind-slab on the exit slopes. Buttresses snowed up, turf seemed OK but wasn't climbing so not sure exactly. Really nice out there today!
Hi, few photos and a bit of info about Red Tarn area today - http://www.mountaincircles.com/blog/
A lot of hard scoured neve about, SE slopes have most of the fresh snow on with cross-loading across the East facing slopes.. This is easy to spot on the Red Tarn face but probably easily worked around as well, some in the gullies today and were climbing on mainly old hard snow and avoiding pockets of wind-slab on the exit slopes. Buttresses snowed up, turf seemed OK but wasn't climbing so not sure exactly. Really nice out there today!
In reply to paddy cave:
Cheers Paddy - looks good - quite grey rocks, i.e. some hoar by the look of it. Hmmmm, what to try tomorrow?
Cheers Paddy - looks good - quite grey rocks, i.e. some hoar by the look of it. Hmmmm, what to try tomorrow?
1
In reply to paddy cave:
Nice one Paddy, cheers.
Tuesday before I can get out......v corner the current plan......if I can find it. Gully 1 and 2 are obvious and the book says 70 metres further left 'an obvious v corner'. Is it obvious once under the route?
Nice one Paddy, cheers.
Tuesday before I can get out......v corner the current plan......if I can find it. Gully 1 and 2 are obvious and the book says 70 metres further left 'an obvious v corner'. Is it obvious once under the route?
Ran up Black Combe this afternoon (Fri/30) in full on sunshine. Very windy & cold on top with ~5-20cm snow (variable depth due to high wind). Out of the wind though the snow was generally deep, mushy and the underlying turf not frozen - so conditions appear very dependent on aspect with respect to the wind.
DSM
DSM
In reply to paddy cave:
god, our lane (the celleron road) looks deep - the wife said the driving was 'interesting'...better still be there by the time i get back from work!
god, our lane (the celleron road) looks deep - the wife said the driving was 'interesting'...better still be there by the time i get back from work!
In reply to TobyA:
Hi Toby I'm up here with my regular partner for two days. We did Central gully today on Rampsgill Head (I think you did it the other week). There is neve throughout the eastern sector but the turf is not universally frozen. Our route was undoubtedly wintry and we were careful not to disturb any soft turf but it wasn't in great nick. We're going to head higher tomorrow. I imagine Helvellyn Red Tarn face would be a better bet but we're going elsewhere
And yes it is bloody windy!!
Hi Toby I'm up here with my regular partner for two days. We did Central gully today on Rampsgill Head (I think you did it the other week). There is neve throughout the eastern sector but the turf is not universally frozen. Our route was undoubtedly wintry and we were careful not to disturb any soft turf but it wasn't in great nick. We're going to head higher tomorrow. I imagine Helvellyn Red Tarn face would be a better bet but we're going elsewhere
And yes it is bloody windy!!
In reply to BnB:
This might help
Fell Top Conditions on Friday 30 January
Readings from Helvellyn summit at 13:10
Temperature minus 3.8°C Maximum wind speed 34.8mph Wind chill minus 14.5°C Average wind speed 11.1mph Wind direction NW - N
There is snow and/or ice on paths at almost all levels. Although snow depth rises with height, the actual depth encountered varies from little on windswept areas – such as parts of the summit plateau – to drifts of over 60cm (the length of my ice axe!) mainly on east through to south facing slopes. Composition of the snowpack also varied from soft snow and spindrift to hard neve – sometimes on slopes with the same aspect. The snow has been compacted on popular routes into hard snow and ice. The summit plateau was covered in ice.
Cornices have formed above east facing slopes, so please keep well back from the edge and advise those with less experience to do likewise.
Exposed routes, such as Striding and Swirral Edges, are in winter condition and should only be attempted by those experienced in, and equipped for, winter mountaineering including the ability to assess the stability, or otherwise, of the snowpack. Striding Edge had everything today from dry rock, to ice, soft snow and hard snow. Banks of unavoidable, steep snow form the exits to both edges; although Striding Edge’s was mainly soft snow both require the use of crampons and ice axe.
Full winter clothing and footwear are essential for those venturing onto the fells; for those attempting, or traversing, steep routes an ice axe and crampons are also essential.
Met Office forecast for Saturday
Issued 31 January at 04:09
Mainly dry throughout the period, with some lengthy spells of bright winter sunshine, particularly over the southern half of the park. Showers will affect the area at times, and these will fall as snow to all levels with further accumulations. These showers most likely in the north and west towards Skiddaw, Saddleback, Ennerdale and Wasdale although anywhere could see one or two through the day. An organised band of showers moving from the north during the evening could give a more prolonged period of snowfall.
0600 to 0900
Partly cloudy 30% chance of precipitation
0900 to 1200
Sunny intervals 20% chance of precipitation
1200 to 1500
Sunny intervals 20% chance of precipitation
1500 to 1800
Light snow showers 30% chance of precipitation
1800 to 2100
Light snow showers (night) 40% chance of precipitation
2100 to 2400
Partly cloudy 30% chance of precipitation
Visibility
Very good or excellent, with panoramic views of surrounding snow-covered fells. Temporarily poor or very poor in any showers, and also in drifting snow due to the strong winds, particularly on higher areas.
Hill fog
Occasional patches down to 400m during the early morning, then associated with any snow showers for the rest of the day.
Wind at 500m
Northwesterly 40-45mph with gusts of 60-65mph. Gusts of 70mph possible on exposed ridges during the evening.
Temperatures
Valleys/low level: Minus 1 Celsius rising to plus 2 Celsius during the day, falling to minus 2 Celsius during the evening.
At 900m: Around minus 5 Celsius.
Freezing level: Freezing level around 200m.
Daylight
Sunrise in Glenridding: 08:02 Sunset: 16:49 - from time.is
Hazards
Storm force winds
Medium risk - Gusts of 70mph possible on exposed ridges during the evening.
Gales
High risk - Gusts expected to reach 55-60mph on exposed summits and ridges.
Severe chill effect
High risk - Strong winds and low temperatures will combine to give a severe chill effect.
Persistent extensive hill fog
No risk
Thunderstorms
No risk
Heavy persistent rain
No risk
Strong sunlight
Medium risk - Glare off the snowpack in any sunny spells.
Blizzards
High risk - Strong winds leading to blizzard conditions at times, even without falling snow.
Heavy snow
Low risk - Showers could merge to form longer spells of snow, particularly during the evening.
Forecast for Sunday
Snow showers continuing during the early hours, before dying out towards dawn. Then a bright, cold, and sunny winter's day. Still a risk of the odd snow flurry, more so towards the coast, but most places staying dry all day. Remaining dry into the evening with long clear spells allowing a sharp frost to form.
Visibility
Generally very good or excellent, but temporarily reducing to poor or very poor in any snow showers. Blowing snow reducing visibility at times on the highest areas.
Hill fog
Occasional patches down to 400m associated with showers in the early hours. Then most summits completely clear all day save for the odd patch at 700-800m.
Wind at 500m
Northwesterly 40-45mph with gusts of 65-70mph easing to 30-35mph with gusts up to 55mph possible during the afternoon.
Temperatures
Valleys/low level: Minus 1 Celsius at first, rising to plus 2 or 3 Celsius for a short time in the afternoon, before falling quickly after dark to minus 3 Celsius.
At 900m: Around minus 7 Celsius.
Freezing level All levels, rising to around 300m for a short time on sunlit aspects and towards the coast.
Outlook for next few days
Monday
A bright and mainly dry day with some lengthy spells of winter sunshine. A low risk of the odd snow shower, mainly towards the coast. Moderate northerly winds. Freezing at all levels at first, rising to 400m later.
Tuesday
A largely clear and bright day but a risk of the odd wintry shower. Moderate to strong northerly winds. Freezing level at the surface, perhaps rising to 400m on sunlit slopes and near the coast during the afternoon.
Wednesday
Another cold and bright day, with a risk of the odd snow shower on the western fells. Moderate north or northeasterly winds. Freezing level around 200m.
Recent conditions
On 30 Jan 2015
Click on photo to see full version
More details about Teko socks Click here to buy Met Office-inspired clothing The Kings Arms in Keswick
This might help
Fell Top Conditions on Friday 30 January
Readings from Helvellyn summit at 13:10
Temperature minus 3.8°C Maximum wind speed 34.8mph Wind chill minus 14.5°C Average wind speed 11.1mph Wind direction NW - N
There is snow and/or ice on paths at almost all levels. Although snow depth rises with height, the actual depth encountered varies from little on windswept areas – such as parts of the summit plateau – to drifts of over 60cm (the length of my ice axe!) mainly on east through to south facing slopes. Composition of the snowpack also varied from soft snow and spindrift to hard neve – sometimes on slopes with the same aspect. The snow has been compacted on popular routes into hard snow and ice. The summit plateau was covered in ice.
Cornices have formed above east facing slopes, so please keep well back from the edge and advise those with less experience to do likewise.
Exposed routes, such as Striding and Swirral Edges, are in winter condition and should only be attempted by those experienced in, and equipped for, winter mountaineering including the ability to assess the stability, or otherwise, of the snowpack. Striding Edge had everything today from dry rock, to ice, soft snow and hard snow. Banks of unavoidable, steep snow form the exits to both edges; although Striding Edge’s was mainly soft snow both require the use of crampons and ice axe.
Full winter clothing and footwear are essential for those venturing onto the fells; for those attempting, or traversing, steep routes an ice axe and crampons are also essential.
Met Office forecast for Saturday
Issued 31 January at 04:09
Mainly dry throughout the period, with some lengthy spells of bright winter sunshine, particularly over the southern half of the park. Showers will affect the area at times, and these will fall as snow to all levels with further accumulations. These showers most likely in the north and west towards Skiddaw, Saddleback, Ennerdale and Wasdale although anywhere could see one or two through the day. An organised band of showers moving from the north during the evening could give a more prolonged period of snowfall.
0600 to 0900
Partly cloudy 30% chance of precipitation
0900 to 1200
Sunny intervals 20% chance of precipitation
1200 to 1500
Sunny intervals 20% chance of precipitation
1500 to 1800
Light snow showers 30% chance of precipitation
1800 to 2100
Light snow showers (night) 40% chance of precipitation
2100 to 2400
Partly cloudy 30% chance of precipitation
Visibility
Very good or excellent, with panoramic views of surrounding snow-covered fells. Temporarily poor or very poor in any showers, and also in drifting snow due to the strong winds, particularly on higher areas.
Hill fog
Occasional patches down to 400m during the early morning, then associated with any snow showers for the rest of the day.
Wind at 500m
Northwesterly 40-45mph with gusts of 60-65mph. Gusts of 70mph possible on exposed ridges during the evening.
Temperatures
Valleys/low level: Minus 1 Celsius rising to plus 2 Celsius during the day, falling to minus 2 Celsius during the evening.
At 900m: Around minus 5 Celsius.
Freezing level: Freezing level around 200m.
Daylight
Sunrise in Glenridding: 08:02 Sunset: 16:49 - from time.is
Hazards
Storm force winds
Medium risk - Gusts of 70mph possible on exposed ridges during the evening.
Gales
High risk - Gusts expected to reach 55-60mph on exposed summits and ridges.
Severe chill effect
High risk - Strong winds and low temperatures will combine to give a severe chill effect.
Persistent extensive hill fog
No risk
Thunderstorms
No risk
Heavy persistent rain
No risk
Strong sunlight
Medium risk - Glare off the snowpack in any sunny spells.
Blizzards
High risk - Strong winds leading to blizzard conditions at times, even without falling snow.
Heavy snow
Low risk - Showers could merge to form longer spells of snow, particularly during the evening.
Forecast for Sunday
Snow showers continuing during the early hours, before dying out towards dawn. Then a bright, cold, and sunny winter's day. Still a risk of the odd snow flurry, more so towards the coast, but most places staying dry all day. Remaining dry into the evening with long clear spells allowing a sharp frost to form.
Visibility
Generally very good or excellent, but temporarily reducing to poor or very poor in any snow showers. Blowing snow reducing visibility at times on the highest areas.
Hill fog
Occasional patches down to 400m associated with showers in the early hours. Then most summits completely clear all day save for the odd patch at 700-800m.
Wind at 500m
Northwesterly 40-45mph with gusts of 65-70mph easing to 30-35mph with gusts up to 55mph possible during the afternoon.
Temperatures
Valleys/low level: Minus 1 Celsius at first, rising to plus 2 or 3 Celsius for a short time in the afternoon, before falling quickly after dark to minus 3 Celsius.
At 900m: Around minus 7 Celsius.
Freezing level All levels, rising to around 300m for a short time on sunlit aspects and towards the coast.
Outlook for next few days
Monday
A bright and mainly dry day with some lengthy spells of winter sunshine. A low risk of the odd snow shower, mainly towards the coast. Moderate northerly winds. Freezing at all levels at first, rising to 400m later.
Tuesday
A largely clear and bright day but a risk of the odd wintry shower. Moderate to strong northerly winds. Freezing level at the surface, perhaps rising to 400m on sunlit slopes and near the coast during the afternoon.
Wednesday
Another cold and bright day, with a risk of the odd snow shower on the western fells. Moderate north or northeasterly winds. Freezing level around 200m.
Recent conditions
On 30 Jan 2015
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More details about Teko socks Click here to buy Met Office-inspired clothing The Kings Arms in Keswick
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
went up to bowfell buttress to take some pictures. disappointing at sunrise after a full on wade up from rossett gill. had a look at the bottom of north gully, wading to waist. chockstones were exposed and with just one ski mountaineering axe and fell shoes decided to back off. waded up south gully. cornices building at the top. lots and lots of powder and ice where exposed to wind. turf decidedly unfrozen elsewhere. spindrift was blowing.
went up to bowfell buttress to take some pictures. disappointing at sunrise after a full on wade up from rossett gill. had a look at the bottom of north gully, wading to waist. chockstones were exposed and with just one ski mountaineering axe and fell shoes decided to back off. waded up south gully. cornices building at the top. lots and lots of powder and ice where exposed to wind. turf decidedly unfrozen elsewhere. spindrift was blowing.
Report Sat/31st.
Just returned from a run up Wetherlam via Hen Crag North Gully & down Steel Edge.
It looked as though the turf at the bottom of Hen Crag was not frozen despite plenty of snow & some ice.
The recent snow seems to be acting as an insulator preventing turf freeze (rather like an inside-out Baked Alaska}.
However, nearer the top the turf did appear well frozen.
DSM
Black Combe pic from yesterday:
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=252072
Just returned from a run up Wetherlam via Hen Crag North Gully & down Steel Edge.
It looked as though the turf at the bottom of Hen Crag was not frozen despite plenty of snow & some ice.
The recent snow seems to be acting as an insulator preventing turf freeze (rather like an inside-out Baked Alaska}.
However, nearer the top the turf did appear well frozen.
DSM
Black Combe pic from yesterday:
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=252072
Thanks Chris - anything else worthwhile in Scrubby area?
DSM
DSM
In reply to DSM:
Not mixed stuff I'm afraid. Plenty of loose snow in the gullies though and some ice in places
Not mixed stuff I'm afraid. Plenty of loose snow in the gullies though and some ice in places
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
pictures from bowfell today: http://johnfleetwood.smugmug.com/Mountainsfolder/LakeDistrict/Langdale/Bowf...
pictures from bowfell today: http://johnfleetwood.smugmug.com/Mountainsfolder/LakeDistrict/Langdale/Bowf...
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
from Harrison East butress towards summit Pavey Ark
conditions -more alan titchmarsh then will gad
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.897755980246172/897755...
from Harrison East butress towards summit Pavey Ark
conditions -more alan titchmarsh then will gad
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.897755980246172/897755...
Post edited at 19:47
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Sorry it's a bit late but Scafell and Pikes Crag were in amazing condition today - White from top to bottom, turf solid and ice in drainage lines. We did Pisgah Buttress which was a superb route in very good condition, a second team made rapid progress up Moss Ghyll, so I suspect they found the same as us, and we walked up with a pair who were off to Pikes Crag, my partner thinks he saw them top out on their route too. If you are looking for something for tomorrow I'd recommend it.
Sorry it's a bit late but Scafell and Pikes Crag were in amazing condition today - White from top to bottom, turf solid and ice in drainage lines. We did Pisgah Buttress which was a superb route in very good condition, a second team made rapid progress up Moss Ghyll, so I suspect they found the same as us, and we walked up with a pair who were off to Pikes Crag, my partner thinks he saw them top out on their route too. If you are looking for something for tomorrow I'd recommend it.
2
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
helvellyn today
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.898030873552016/898030...
helvellyn today
https://www.facebook.com/NTLakescampsites/photos/pcb.898030873552016/898030...
Post edited at 13:48
In reply to Exile:
Yeah that was us, did a new line on Pikes Crag, which was in good condition, loads of rime all over the route. I got a couple of photos of you finishing your route - I'll email them over.
Yeah that was us, did a new line on Pikes Crag, which was in good condition, loads of rime all over the route. I got a couple of photos of you finishing your route - I'll email them over.
Report from Sun/1st/Feb.
Scafell remains very wintry - lots of blown snow, rime, some ice, turf frozen high up (but not at base of crag). Did Deep Gill Integrale which was a hoot, views fantastic, very little wind & full on sunshine on top. Hardly anyone else in evidence? I'll post some pics.
DSM
Scafell remains very wintry - lots of blown snow, rime, some ice, turf frozen high up (but not at base of crag). Did Deep Gill Integrale which was a hoot, views fantastic, very little wind & full on sunshine on top. Hardly anyone else in evidence? I'll post some pics.
DSM
1
In reply to Exile:
Yeah it was great thanks, the ridge part was good and there was some nice steeper climbing to get onto the ridge and up a groove for 2 pitches to get to the top of Pulpit Rock, I put a pic of the first steeper pitch on FRCC.
Yeah it was great thanks, the ridge part was good and there was some nice steeper climbing to get onto the ridge and up a groove for 2 pitches to get to the top of Pulpit Rock, I put a pic of the first steeper pitch on FRCC.
Some pics from Sun/1st from Scafell give an idea of conditions hereabouts:
http://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/item.html?crag=680&route=Deep+Gill+Int...
DSM
http://www.ukclimbing.com/photos/item.html?crag=680&route=Deep+Gill+Int...
DSM
1
In reply to Exile:
Thanks - we went for III/IV as that was the steepest pitch, but we might be wrong and all the climbing in the lakes might have screwed up my gradeometer! It was definitely worth at least 1 star though.
Thanks - we went for III/IV as that was the steepest pitch, but we might be wrong and all the climbing in the lakes might have screwed up my gradeometer! It was definitely worth at least 1 star though.
In reply to DSM:
Great pics but even better Koflachs. My mate and I were talking about those just the other day - he swore by his but I was more of an Asolo 101 sort of guy.
We had high cloud for the most part yesterday. Pikes Crag looks as though it has lost quite a lot of snow since then where it has caught the sun today.
Great pics but even better Koflachs. My mate and I were talking about those just the other day - he swore by his but I was more of an Asolo 101 sort of guy.
We had high cloud for the most part yesterday. Pikes Crag looks as though it has lost quite a lot of snow since then where it has caught the sun today.
In reply to Exile:
The dayglow Koflach boots are awesome aren't they! I think they cost me something like £180 in 1990 which seemed like a fortune at the time. Having lasted nearly 25 years its probably time to retire them - maybe next year!
DSM
The dayglow Koflach boots are awesome aren't they! I think they cost me something like £180 in 1990 which seemed like a fortune at the time. Having lasted nearly 25 years its probably time to retire them - maybe next year!
DSM
In reply to Exile:
Was anyone on Bowfell Buttress today? If so they didn't come across a rack of expensive gear left by a passing idiot at sunset last night by any chance? http://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/t.php?n=608259
We sort of did Ledge and Groove route, but couldn't really work out how to get up the wall on pitch 2. I ended up climbing a chimney to the left which actually appears to be one of the tech 6 pitches on Bowstring (VI,6) https://www.flickr.com/photos/toby-northern_light/16231315289/in/set-721576... . It was bloody hard but had decent protection, which was just as well as I took one small fall on it!
We found finding gear very tough, there don't seem to be many cracks and those that there were were all chocked with snow. The turf, the bits with long grass it seemed, didn't seem to be well frozen. In some places there was great turf but not everywhere. All in all challenging conditions, and it was a long day! That'll be my excuse for being knackered enough at the top to leave half the gear behind where we topped out.
Was anyone on Bowfell Buttress today? If so they didn't come across a rack of expensive gear left by a passing idiot at sunset last night by any chance? http://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/t.php?n=608259
We sort of did Ledge and Groove route, but couldn't really work out how to get up the wall on pitch 2. I ended up climbing a chimney to the left which actually appears to be one of the tech 6 pitches on Bowstring (VI,6) https://www.flickr.com/photos/toby-northern_light/16231315289/in/set-721576... . It was bloody hard but had decent protection, which was just as well as I took one small fall on it!
We found finding gear very tough, there don't seem to be many cracks and those that there were were all chocked with snow. The turf, the bits with long grass it seemed, didn't seem to be well frozen. In some places there was great turf but not everywhere. All in all challenging conditions, and it was a long day! That'll be my excuse for being knackered enough at the top to leave half the gear behind where we topped out.
1
2
In reply to TobyA:
I climbed bowfell today, however I didn't come across any gear I'm afraid!
I did however manage to do a similar puntish error and left a blue hex, QuickDraw and sling institu on the final pitch. If anyone climbs it and retrieves the gear please can I have it back! Will pay for postage and beer!
I climbed bowfell today, however I didn't come across any gear I'm afraid!
I did however manage to do a similar puntish error and left a blue hex, QuickDraw and sling institu on the final pitch. If anyone climbs it and retrieves the gear please can I have it back! Will pay for postage and beer!
In reply to TobyA:
Hard luck with the gear Toby, hope you get it back.
Is the photo of what you thought was Bowstring more of a right facing corner and about 15m high, (maybe a bit more) than a chimney? The photo looks more like the corner described on the first pitch of Bowstring, but I can't be 100% sure.
Hard luck with the gear Toby, hope you get it back.
Is the photo of what you thought was Bowstring more of a right facing corner and about 15m high, (maybe a bit more) than a chimney? The photo looks more like the corner described on the first pitch of Bowstring, but I can't be 100% sure.
In reply to Exile:
It's just a chimney in that you can just about bridge across it, although the rock is very unhelpful for crampon placements even if you can do the splits! We could see a few scratches on it before we went up, so it's obviously climbed from time to time. It's actually just right of the crux cracks of Bowfell buttress, because these pics https://www.flickr.com/photos/toby-northern_light/16415776611/in/set-721576... https://www.flickr.com/photos/toby-northern_light/16416609082/in/set-721576... I took at the same belay, and Rich and Dave said they were on the crux crack of BB.
From above the chimney, Simon then traversed right and down a bit https://www.flickr.com/photos/toby-northern_light/16231318329/in/set-721576... to get to the arete belay of Ledge and Groove from where you are sort of just climbing features in the left wall of North Gully, its some fun climbing, but the route is very escapable as basically in parts you are in the gully.
It's just a chimney in that you can just about bridge across it, although the rock is very unhelpful for crampon placements even if you can do the splits! We could see a few scratches on it before we went up, so it's obviously climbed from time to time. It's actually just right of the crux cracks of Bowfell buttress, because these pics https://www.flickr.com/photos/toby-northern_light/16415776611/in/set-721576... https://www.flickr.com/photos/toby-northern_light/16416609082/in/set-721576... I took at the same belay, and Rich and Dave said they were on the crux crack of BB.
From above the chimney, Simon then traversed right and down a bit https://www.flickr.com/photos/toby-northern_light/16231318329/in/set-721576... to get to the arete belay of Ledge and Groove from where you are sort of just climbing features in the left wall of North Gully, its some fun climbing, but the route is very escapable as basically in parts you are in the gully.
In reply to Exile:
Looks like the first pitch of Bowstring to me.
The second hard bit is the shallow alcove that can be used to miss the crowds on the "polished crack " bit of BB.
To continue on L+G you would not want to climb that high.
Been researching this bit of crag recently whilst trying not to let Peter know I thought I had a winter project here.
Noticed a scruffy line when developing the White Wall, decided not to clean it and leave it for winter.
Left it too long and BD got there first.
Edit. just seen the above post, looks like its P 2. but i thought the easiest line was the RH crack, thats the way I have seen it climbed.
Looks like the first pitch of Bowstring to me.
The second hard bit is the shallow alcove that can be used to miss the crowds on the "polished crack " bit of BB.
To continue on L+G you would not want to climb that high.
Been researching this bit of crag recently whilst trying not to let Peter know I thought I had a winter project here.
Noticed a scruffy line when developing the White Wall, decided not to clean it and leave it for winter.
Left it too long and BD got there first.
Edit. just seen the above post, looks like its P 2. but i thought the easiest line was the RH crack, thats the way I have seen it climbed.
Post edited at 20:46
In reply to Exile:
Was a bit harder than Garden of Eden and but not as hard as Bottleneck blues! Worthy of the star I felt.
Was a bit harder than Garden of Eden and but not as hard as Bottleneck blues! Worthy of the star I felt.
In reply to TobyA:
Rick is right, it's not the main corner but the second crux on the guide book described first pitch. We actually belayed below this and climbed it as the start to the second pitch when we did Bowstring, which makes for a lot more spacious belay ledge. It is quite hard in a 'short sharp' sort of way.
Rick is right, it's not the main corner but the second crux on the guide book described first pitch. We actually belayed below this and climbed it as the start to the second pitch when we did Bowstring, which makes for a lot more spacious belay ledge. It is quite hard in a 'short sharp' sort of way.
In reply to Exile:
Yes, it is short and sharp! You can swing out onto a ledge leftwards which is what I did after falling off trying to go direct the first time. And it does bring you too high on L&G, but I couldn't find away up that wall at anything around supposedly tech 4. There is something a bit like some steps going up the wall about 15 mtrs to the right of that chimney, but that was unprotected and after balancing up the first few (decent) foot holds there was nothing for tools on the slab above; it felt very tenuous with just hooks on flat, and slightly downward slanting rock. With a couple of solid runners I might have investigated further, but with the prospect of falling 15 foot back down onto the ledge (and perhaps then off that!), I didn't fancy it. Perhaps with some ice or consolidated snow above the wall, that would be easy 4 - a delicate step up then thwack and pull, then the guidebook description would make sense.
Interestingly, my old Lakes Winter guide gives L&G V,6 which is more what it felt like yesterday to me!
Yes, it is short and sharp! You can swing out onto a ledge leftwards which is what I did after falling off trying to go direct the first time. And it does bring you too high on L&G, but I couldn't find away up that wall at anything around supposedly tech 4. There is something a bit like some steps going up the wall about 15 mtrs to the right of that chimney, but that was unprotected and after balancing up the first few (decent) foot holds there was nothing for tools on the slab above; it felt very tenuous with just hooks on flat, and slightly downward slanting rock. With a couple of solid runners I might have investigated further, but with the prospect of falling 15 foot back down onto the ledge (and perhaps then off that!), I didn't fancy it. Perhaps with some ice or consolidated snow above the wall, that would be easy 4 - a delicate step up then thwack and pull, then the guidebook description would make sense.
Interestingly, my old Lakes Winter guide gives L&G V,6 which is more what it felt like yesterday to me!
In reply to TobyA:
Toby, you have a lot to say for yourself. You shouldn't be falling off in winter, esp. from grade 4s.
Falling off in winter is a game for mugs.
Toby, you have a lot to say for yourself. You shouldn't be falling off in winter, esp. from grade 4s.
Falling off in winter is a game for mugs.
In reply to TobyA:
Totally agree and think I've had a pretty similar experience on that section after trying to get away from the queues on Bowfell buttress. Think a lot of Lakes routes are graded for neve, especially B Davison ones!
Totally agree and think I've had a pretty similar experience on that section after trying to get away from the queues on Bowfell buttress. Think a lot of Lakes routes are graded for neve, especially B Davison ones!
In reply to TobyA:
Is it downgraded in the new guide? I haven't done L&G but a friend who has (and also got a bit lost if memory serves me correctly) thought V 6 was right.
Is it downgraded in the new guide? I haven't done L&G but a friend who has (and also got a bit lost if memory serves me correctly) thought V 6 was right.
In reply to Removed User:
Well, I apologise if I'm boring you. And I agree falling off in winter is generally a bad idea, which is why I ended up doing a hard section that had good rock gear, rather than a supposedly easier bit with no gear.
Exile, yes IV,5 in both the 2006 and 2012 guides.
Well, I apologise if I'm boring you. And I agree falling off in winter is generally a bad idea, which is why I ended up doing a hard section that had good rock gear, rather than a supposedly easier bit with no gear.
Exile, yes IV,5 in both the 2006 and 2012 guides.
Post edited at 22:03
In reply to TobyA:
When Luke + I did L+G it was under deep powder but good turf, when you found it. It was tough but I only gave it IV, because I hate arguing about grades and also thought it could have been a lot easier when consolidated or lean.
The top pitch was long and really good.
The wall you had trouble on is possibly best climbed diagonally left for a bit, you may have been trying to climb across the grain.
When Luke + I did L+G it was under deep powder but good turf, when you found it. It was tough but I only gave it IV, because I hate arguing about grades and also thought it could have been a lot easier when consolidated or lean.
The top pitch was long and really good.
The wall you had trouble on is possibly best climbed diagonally left for a bit, you may have been trying to climb across the grain.
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Was on Brown Cove today. From about 30m up onwards, all the turf is pretty well frozen, with some good ice forming around the place. On the right hand end of the crag, and in some sheltered spots, the snow is pretty powdery. But in most of the rest of the place it is pretty decent! Hopefully get back out again this week if the weather does as it's supposed to and stay nice and cold... Fingers crossed.
Was on Brown Cove today. From about 30m up onwards, all the turf is pretty well frozen, with some good ice forming around the place. On the right hand end of the crag, and in some sheltered spots, the snow is pretty powdery. But in most of the rest of the place it is pretty decent! Hopefully get back out again this week if the weather does as it's supposed to and stay nice and cold... Fingers crossed.
In reply to CharlieMack:
Nice one Charlie, thanks for the update.
Looking to get out myself during the week if you need a partner
JH.
Nice one Charlie, thanks for the update.
Looking to get out myself during the week if you need a partner
JH.
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Has anyone been along Sharp edge last couple of days? just wondering about conditions? thanks
Has anyone been along Sharp edge last couple of days? just wondering about conditions? thanks
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Thinking about heading over to Blea Water Tarn area to tomorrow. Has anybody been over there recently. Specifically the grade 3 ice falls. Any info much appreciated?
Thinking about heading over to Blea Water Tarn area to tomorrow. Has anybody been over there recently. Specifically the grade 3 ice falls. Any info much appreciated?
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
We went to Gable Crag on Saturday. Went up to do Engineer's Slab but not frozen enough under any snow build up, so did the chimney (which is a huge sandbag at V,4). It will be improving with the continued cold weather, but the snow build up is insulating it well up there. Whilst it looked very much in condition, it wasn't on a lot of the routes.
Pic on twitter here: https://twitter.com/johnrobeds/status/562209179348504576/photo/1
I heard that blea water tarn got done on Saturdayin ok conditions also, so I would assume that's still in nick.
We went to Gable Crag on Saturday. Went up to do Engineer's Slab but not frozen enough under any snow build up, so did the chimney (which is a huge sandbag at V,4). It will be improving with the continued cold weather, but the snow build up is insulating it well up there. Whilst it looked very much in condition, it wasn't on a lot of the routes.
Pic on twitter here: https://twitter.com/johnrobeds/status/562209179348504576/photo/1
I heard that blea water tarn got done on Saturdayin ok conditions also, so I would assume that's still in nick.
In reply to alastairmac:
I climbed 2 of the Grade 2/3 Gullies at Bleau water (can’t remember the names we just climbed the lines that looked the best) on Saturday. The left had watercourse had enough ice to Juuuust be climbable and we also managed the bigger central gully however the ice/snow was awful and the turf underneath not frozen, I presume as this aspect was more sheltered. Coming through the steeper bits at the top was a bit terrifying on the solo with large panels of snow ice falling off constantly leaving rock streaming with water below. However Sunday was loads colder and if it was as cold today I would imagine that they’d be good (not very fat though) this week.
I climbed 2 of the Grade 2/3 Gullies at Bleau water (can’t remember the names we just climbed the lines that looked the best) on Saturday. The left had watercourse had enough ice to Juuuust be climbable and we also managed the bigger central gully however the ice/snow was awful and the turf underneath not frozen, I presume as this aspect was more sheltered. Coming through the steeper bits at the top was a bit terrifying on the solo with large panels of snow ice falling off constantly leaving rock streaming with water below. However Sunday was loads colder and if it was as cold today I would imagine that they’d be good (not very fat though) this week.
Post edited at 15:58
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In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Ps - I saw some pretty huge avalanche debris over on Blencathra on Sunday including one 100m wide full depth one! I imagine the snowpack has stabilised a lot now but beware the windslab on sheltered aspects. I’ll post some pics later if anyone’s interested.
Ps - I saw some pretty huge avalanche debris over on Blencathra on Sunday including one 100m wide full depth one! I imagine the snowpack has stabilised a lot now but beware the windslab on sheltered aspects. I’ll post some pics later if anyone’s interested.
In reply to ebdon:
The snowpack was unstable on gable. A lot of transportation going on, luckily it was rarely built up in significant enough patches to cause too much trouble, but some of the approach/descent slopes needed care.
The snowpack was unstable on gable. A lot of transportation going on, luckily it was rarely built up in significant enough patches to cause too much trouble, but some of the approach/descent slopes needed care.
In reply to John Roberts (JR):
Ah, that confirms my thoughts about Lakeland 4 being similar to 'Scottish VS' (VS to E2). This looks like the top end of Lakeland 4!
NMM
Ah, that confirms my thoughts about Lakeland 4 being similar to 'Scottish VS' (VS to E2). This looks like the top end of Lakeland 4!
NMM
In reply to John Roberts (JR):
so did the chimney (which is a huge sandbag at V,4).
What grade would you give it?
so did the chimney (which is a huge sandbag at V,4).
What grade would you give it?
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Been on Helvellyn & Brown Cove Crags this afternoon. Short blog and couple of photos here: http://www.mountain-journeys.co.uk/blog
Conditions are good.
Been on Helvellyn & Brown Cove Crags this afternoon. Short blog and couple of photos here: http://www.mountain-journeys.co.uk/blog
Conditions are good.
1
Saturday Scafell conditions shown here:
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=252172
and here:
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=252211
It was quite amazing - the whole crag looked like this
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=252172
and here:
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=252211
It was quite amazing - the whole crag looked like this
1
In reply to A Mountain Journey:
I was in the same place and agree conditions were excellent although someone told me that the ice was off perfect. Did the big Broad Gully just right of the main bit of the crag. Needed both axes on firm icy neve. There was a distinct absence of bucket steps and this old timer felt quite pleased to find he'd done a route and not just climbed up a descent gully. Saw two coming down but not facing outwards! Swirral Edge was a blast; literally!
I took a few pictures but the spectacular views all come out looking like a kicked over tin of white paint.
Brilliant cinematographic alpen glow at the end of the day.
I was in the same place and agree conditions were excellent although someone told me that the ice was off perfect. Did the big Broad Gully just right of the main bit of the crag. Needed both axes on firm icy neve. There was a distinct absence of bucket steps and this old timer felt quite pleased to find he'd done a route and not just climbed up a descent gully. Saw two coming down but not facing outwards! Swirral Edge was a blast; literally!
I took a few pictures but the spectacular views all come out looking like a kicked over tin of white paint.
Brilliant cinematographic alpen glow at the end of the day.
> Been on Helvellyn & Brown Cove Crags this afternoon. Short blog and couple of photos here: http://www.mountain-journeys.co.uk/blog
> Conditions are good.
In reply to Exile:
Amazing how conditions vary over short distances. We were on Great End Saturday. No sign of that hoar and rime. Did SE gully which was a swim up cross-loaded spindrift until the scoured neve of the final 50m. All the turf was buried under powder, the rock, including most of any gear, was smeared with verglas and the ice pitches weren't properly formed making it the toughest III I've ever done. It was a case of swimming 30m then technical climbing over bulges and chocks without the benefit of neve for feet or axes, before yet another swim. It felt pretty bold on the technical moves I can say, and probably IV 5 overall on the day. I was buzzing for the rest of the weekend which is a sure sign of an "out there" experience.
Amazing how conditions vary over short distances. We were on Great End Saturday. No sign of that hoar and rime. Did SE gully which was a swim up cross-loaded spindrift until the scoured neve of the final 50m. All the turf was buried under powder, the rock, including most of any gear, was smeared with verglas and the ice pitches weren't properly formed making it the toughest III I've ever done. It was a case of swimming 30m then technical climbing over bulges and chocks without the benefit of neve for feet or axes, before yet another swim. It felt pretty bold on the technical moves I can say, and probably IV 5 overall on the day. I was buzzing for the rest of the weekend which is a sure sign of an "out there" experience.
1
In reply to BnB:
The Scafell crags were white with hoar frost rather than it all being snow and that's mostly the result of prevailing wind. I think the conditions were a lot better for steeper mixed stuff rather than traditional gullies that are better after freeze - thaws.
The Scafell crags were white with hoar frost rather than it all being snow and that's mostly the result of prevailing wind. I think the conditions were a lot better for steeper mixed stuff rather than traditional gullies that are better after freeze - thaws.
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Decent size full depth avalanche on the back side of Blencathra over the weekend, photo on this guy's blog:
http://www.adventurehunter.co.uk/lingy-hut-ski-tour/
Decent size full depth avalanche on the back side of Blencathra over the weekend, photo on this guy's blog:
http://www.adventurehunter.co.uk/lingy-hut-ski-tour/
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Some photos showing conditions in the lakes today, from Scafell Pike.
https://www.facebook.com/sam.marsland/posts/10153028681496221
Some photos showing conditions in the lakes today, from Scafell Pike.
https://www.facebook.com/sam.marsland/posts/10153028681496221
1
In reply to Exile:
Put it this way, it was markedly harder and more sustained than Savage Slit, and with worse gear. Wouldn't have argued with V 7. We're not the only one's to think that either looking at the logbooks.
Engineer's Chimney (V 4)
It was worth it all for the sunset/moonrise: https://twitter.com/johnrobeds/status/561600295437082624/photo/1
Put it this way, it was markedly harder and more sustained than Savage Slit, and with worse gear. Wouldn't have argued with V 7. We're not the only one's to think that either looking at the logbooks.
Engineer's Chimney (V 4)
It was worth it all for the sunset/moonrise: https://twitter.com/johnrobeds/status/561600295437082624/photo/1
1
In reply to alastairmac:
Photos of Blea water gill on sat:
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=252279
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=252281
And photo of avalance on Blencathara on Sun:
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=252283
Photos of Blea water gill on sat:
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=252279
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=252281
And photo of avalance on Blencathara on Sun:
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=252283
In reply to Will Smith:
We (Exile and myself) were on Pisgah Buttress not Moss Ghyll - from what I could see looking across into MG, it was only thinly iced if any under the rime so probably quite tough conditions. The team who were on it still seemed to be making progress efficiently though.
It was a fabulous day to be up there on any route, a highlight of the season for sure.
> What sort of Nick was Moss Ghyll in? Was the climbing reasonable for the grade?
We (Exile and myself) were on Pisgah Buttress not Moss Ghyll - from what I could see looking across into MG, it was only thinly iced if any under the rime so probably quite tough conditions. The team who were on it still seemed to be making progress efficiently though.
It was a fabulous day to be up there on any route, a highlight of the season for sure.
Post edited at 10:44
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Great conditions on Helvellyn head wall yesterday. Teams doing Gully 1, 2 and V-Corner amongst others.
I'm fairly new to the winter game so had my own epic on No 2 gully, a paltry grade I. Took a fall early on, onto a 2 ice screw belay which meant my head was screwed for the rest of the day. Though impressive work by my belayer and looking back gives me confidence that they do the job.
Then I couldn't find a belay when leading about 50 meters below the summit so we had to solo the final pitch. Perfect neve meant this was technically easy but my head just wasn't in the game. Topped out into a windless summit with beautiful views and went through the emotions of never again. Took us over 3 hours from gearing up to top.
To add insult to injury a beautiful girl, resplendent in purple Rab gear from top to toe popped up over the cornice about 5 minutes after us having soloed the whole thing in about 20 minutes.
I'm already planning the next one.
Great conditions on Helvellyn head wall yesterday. Teams doing Gully 1, 2 and V-Corner amongst others.
I'm fairly new to the winter game so had my own epic on No 2 gully, a paltry grade I. Took a fall early on, onto a 2 ice screw belay which meant my head was screwed for the rest of the day. Though impressive work by my belayer and looking back gives me confidence that they do the job.
Then I couldn't find a belay when leading about 50 meters below the summit so we had to solo the final pitch. Perfect neve meant this was technically easy but my head just wasn't in the game. Topped out into a windless summit with beautiful views and went through the emotions of never again. Took us over 3 hours from gearing up to top.
To add insult to injury a beautiful girl, resplendent in purple Rab gear from top to toe popped up over the cornice about 5 minutes after us having soloed the whole thing in about 20 minutes.
I'm already planning the next one.
In reply to RedFive:
I'm being genuine here: it really concerns me to hear about people falling off grade 1 routes. They are a total piece of piss to climb - suggest you have a real good think/chat with your mates. Falling onto ice screws is a no go area and is best avoided - please don't get too confident in them.
I'm being genuine here: it really concerns me to hear about people falling off grade 1 routes. They are a total piece of piss to climb - suggest you have a real good think/chat with your mates. Falling onto ice screws is a no go area and is best avoided - please don't get too confident in them.
1
In reply to mick taylor:
Couldn't agree more. Falling off easy routes is just plain incompetence and the words lemming and muppet come to mind. Falling off easy stuff means you will hit something. Steeper routes are safer in that regard, but equally - DO NOT fall off in winter! Find an easy walk or an easier route and climb below your level of incompetence.
Couldn't agree more. Falling off easy routes is just plain incompetence and the words lemming and muppet come to mind. Falling off easy stuff means you will hit something. Steeper routes are safer in that regard, but equally - DO NOT fall off in winter! Find an easy walk or an easier route and climb below your level of incompetence.
In reply to mick taylor:
Thanks Mick.
I hear what you are saying, even though you are being a little blunt. With Grivel G12's and two DMM Fly's I shouldn't be falling off anything.....but I did.
People fall off perfectly good paths that aren't even a graded climb, indeed people often have the temerity to fall over simply walking down the street. It happens Mick, and unfortunately I wasn't born with the ape like climbing skills that you clearly posses so have to start somewhere.
Or maybe you think I should stay on the sofa watching Coronation Street and leave the fells to real climbers like yourself?
Thanks Mick.
I hear what you are saying, even though you are being a little blunt. With Grivel G12's and two DMM Fly's I shouldn't be falling off anything.....but I did.
People fall off perfectly good paths that aren't even a graded climb, indeed people often have the temerity to fall over simply walking down the street. It happens Mick, and unfortunately I wasn't born with the ape like climbing skills that you clearly posses so have to start somewhere.
Or maybe you think I should stay on the sofa watching Coronation Street and leave the fells to real climbers like yourself?
1
In reply to mick taylor:
as inexperienced as I am in winter climbing, I'd still suggest that the whole point of putting these things in rock and ice is because sometimes we do fall.
If you don't accept that possibility then you've no need to put any pro in at all. If you do think there's a chance of slipping or falling but think using the pro you placed is a no-go area, then it's time to quit climbing.
as inexperienced as I am in winter climbing, I'd still suggest that the whole point of putting these things in rock and ice is because sometimes we do fall.
If you don't accept that possibility then you've no need to put any pro in at all. If you do think there's a chance of slipping or falling but think using the pro you placed is a no-go area, then it's time to quit climbing.
In reply to RedFive:
Slight thread hijack so I'll stop in a mo..............Most of my mates would be either 1) more blunt or 2) say nothing (usually coz they're instructors/guides and decide to keep out of the public gaze). So I do intend to err on the nicer side of bluntness (I really do not wish to offend - lifes to short to end up in keypad battles with sound people).
To give some context: I once witnessed 2 climbers walk into a coire - we politely advised them against it due to avalanche hazard - but they carried on. Both died in an avalanche. And I've lost mates (believe their belay failed after a fall on easy ground after doing a hard route). And I've made the odd error, which I am totally upfront about (falling full length of goat track when crampons balled up, accidentally completely untie-ing from belay when getting ready to ab off - got stressed due to mini avalanche flying over our heads). BUT I have learned to listen to what people say, whether experienced or not.
Easy gullies can be horrible places (shit belays, crap snow). I believe in quickly getting whatever mileage people feel they need and get on some (usually better) routes with better gear.
Slight thread hijack so I'll stop in a mo..............Most of my mates would be either 1) more blunt or 2) say nothing (usually coz they're instructors/guides and decide to keep out of the public gaze). So I do intend to err on the nicer side of bluntness (I really do not wish to offend - lifes to short to end up in keypad battles with sound people).
To give some context: I once witnessed 2 climbers walk into a coire - we politely advised them against it due to avalanche hazard - but they carried on. Both died in an avalanche. And I've lost mates (believe their belay failed after a fall on easy ground after doing a hard route). And I've made the odd error, which I am totally upfront about (falling full length of goat track when crampons balled up, accidentally completely untie-ing from belay when getting ready to ab off - got stressed due to mini avalanche flying over our heads). BUT I have learned to listen to what people say, whether experienced or not.
Easy gullies can be horrible places (shit belays, crap snow). I believe in quickly getting whatever mileage people feel they need and get on some (usually better) routes with better gear.
1
In reply to Simon Caldwell:
Great link Simon, thanks. We discounted Number 1 gully on Red tarn face as looking up from below, the snowpack at the top looked suspiciously like windslab. You could clearly see the difference further left at the top of No.2 which was scoured neve.
And to Parrys_apprentice, I couldn't agree more!
Great link Simon, thanks. We discounted Number 1 gully on Red tarn face as looking up from below, the snowpack at the top looked suspiciously like windslab. You could clearly see the difference further left at the top of No.2 which was scoured neve.
And to Parrys_apprentice, I couldn't agree more!
In reply to mick taylor:
I appreciate your comments Mick. It can be difficult reading between the lines on this sort of forum and well meaning comments can get taken out of context. I'm a great listener according to all the girls I've ever met
People can be quick to abuse with all sorts of vitriol without knowing the situation / individuals concerned / experience levels etc. It appears my biggest mistake has been to post a bit too much detail when i was intending only to pass on my knowledge of 'winter conditions in the lakes' at that particular time, on that particular route.
Love to all.
I appreciate your comments Mick. It can be difficult reading between the lines on this sort of forum and well meaning comments can get taken out of context. I'm a great listener according to all the girls I've ever met
People can be quick to abuse with all sorts of vitriol without knowing the situation / individuals concerned / experience levels etc. It appears my biggest mistake has been to post a bit too much detail when i was intending only to pass on my knowledge of 'winter conditions in the lakes' at that particular time, on that particular route.
Love to all.
In reply to blackcat:
We had a look at the base of V-Corner and it was completely iced up. Plenty pockets of ice including the ramp up the side of Gully 2 about 2/3rds of the way up.
Depends what you are looking for. Loads of ice in red Tarn as you can see from my pic yesterday
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=252314
We had a look at the base of V-Corner and it was completely iced up. Plenty pockets of ice including the ramp up the side of Gully 2 about 2/3rds of the way up.
Depends what you are looking for. Loads of ice in red Tarn as you can see from my pic yesterday
http://www.ukhillwalking.com/images/dbpage.php?id=252314
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Can we all keep it to winter conditions reports, please and start another threat if you want to natter on about other stuff...ta...
Can we all keep it to winter conditions reports, please and start another threat if you want to natter on about other stuff...ta...
2
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Checked Low Water Beck today, not in yet, *may possibly* be in by the weekend. Ice on Low Water crags (Percy's Passage etc) is good. Turf hard as nails up there today. No rime, and snow is soft and unconsolidated as it's stayed sub-zero.
Checked Low Water Beck today, not in yet, *may possibly* be in by the weekend. Ice on Low Water crags (Percy's Passage etc) is good. Turf hard as nails up there today. No rime, and snow is soft and unconsolidated as it's stayed sub-zero.
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Small group of us doing some skills training at Brown Cove Crags today. While it's lovely and wintery, and there are pleasant bits of ice to boulder on, I would suggest it's not in classic condition (although good fun). The gullies are relatively lean, but perfectly climbable, with older snow ice and unconsolidated powder. We finished up Summer Step which was powder covered rock with little for the axes to bite into, it would have been as easy without tools, and quite insecure for II if you stuck to overlooking the gully. Moving rightwards away from the gully provided more fun with ice, frozen turf and good sport.
Small group of us doing some skills training at Brown Cove Crags today. While it's lovely and wintery, and there are pleasant bits of ice to boulder on, I would suggest it's not in classic condition (although good fun). The gullies are relatively lean, but perfectly climbable, with older snow ice and unconsolidated powder. We finished up Summer Step which was powder covered rock with little for the axes to bite into, it would have been as easy without tools, and quite insecure for II if you stuck to overlooking the gully. Moving rightwards away from the gully provided more fun with ice, frozen turf and good sport.
In reply to Will Smith:
What Elliptic said, but Moss Ghyll didn't have a heap of ice when I did it and I thought IV 5, (maybe 6 for a move?) was about right.
What Elliptic said, but Moss Ghyll didn't have a heap of ice when I did it and I thought IV 5, (maybe 6 for a move?) was about right.
In reply to John Roberts (JR):
Good to know re Engineers Chimney thanks - I'd heard it was quite staunch.
Good to know re Engineers Chimney thanks - I'd heard it was quite staunch.
In reply to BnB:
Much better conditions today on Gt End-Snow beginning to consolidate,plenty of ice e.g. Groove finish to Window gully is complete.
Both right hand and left hand grooves still look to be lean.
Much better conditions today on Gt End-Snow beginning to consolidate,plenty of ice e.g. Groove finish to Window gully is complete.
Both right hand and left hand grooves still look to be lean.
1
In reply to Removed User:
I don't think you can be so dismissive as to automatically label people as lemmings or muppets. You simply don't know the circumstances that make people fall. You can use those labels when you've had a chance to see the people in action long enough to judge their proficiency otherwise you should not be so judgemental.
In the late 90s I descended No 2 from the summit to find a few members of a MRT tending to one of their own who had fallen some distance before even entering the gully and was thought to have broken his ankles - not used to his new ex MOD plastic boots. I assisted in the carry down by Patterdale and that team and I wouldn't have called any of them muppets or lemmings, just an unfortunate accident. In fact thinking it only happens to muppets or lemmings is a very unsafe attitude as you have to assume it could happen to you any time any place.
RedFive - glad you fell early as falling from the top would have had a different outcome. You might want to get used to moving confidently on easy ground - it'll help you in the long run. But easy ground has its own hazards - the current conditions in the lakes are somewhat awkward in many places with or without crampons!
I don't think you can be so dismissive as to automatically label people as lemmings or muppets. You simply don't know the circumstances that make people fall. You can use those labels when you've had a chance to see the people in action long enough to judge their proficiency otherwise you should not be so judgemental.
In the late 90s I descended No 2 from the summit to find a few members of a MRT tending to one of their own who had fallen some distance before even entering the gully and was thought to have broken his ankles - not used to his new ex MOD plastic boots. I assisted in the carry down by Patterdale and that team and I wouldn't have called any of them muppets or lemmings, just an unfortunate accident. In fact thinking it only happens to muppets or lemmings is a very unsafe attitude as you have to assume it could happen to you any time any place.
RedFive - glad you fell early as falling from the top would have had a different outcome. You might want to get used to moving confidently on easy ground - it'll help you in the long run. But easy ground has its own hazards - the current conditions in the lakes are somewhat awkward in many places with or without crampons!
Post edited at 19:57
1
In reply to RedFive:
Assuming you didn't just trip over your own feet (which can easily happen wearing crampons) then I wonder just how good the conditions were: thinly iced up rock steps, snow steps collapsing under you? In good conditions grade 1 is half a step up from a walk, an easy solo with a walking axe. In poor conditions you need to be careful or you seriously risk killing yourself. If you are new to winter climbing, how do you know conditions on that particular bit were good?
The bit that really worries me is that you said: "Then I couldn't find a belay when leading about 50 meters below the summit so we had to solo the final pitch. Perfect neve meant this was technically easy..." What sort of belay were you expecting: a pair of bolts and a chain, three bomber hexes? From what I remember from doing that route years ago, the top is just an open snow slope then the cornice. You say it was perfect neve and you had a pair of axes - make a T-axe and dig a bucket seat below the cornice and let your mate lead through.
Get yourself on an introductory winter climbing course, find somebody more experienced to climb with or we will soon be saying our thoughts are with your family at this difficult time.
Assuming you didn't just trip over your own feet (which can easily happen wearing crampons) then I wonder just how good the conditions were: thinly iced up rock steps, snow steps collapsing under you? In good conditions grade 1 is half a step up from a walk, an easy solo with a walking axe. In poor conditions you need to be careful or you seriously risk killing yourself. If you are new to winter climbing, how do you know conditions on that particular bit were good?
The bit that really worries me is that you said: "Then I couldn't find a belay when leading about 50 meters below the summit so we had to solo the final pitch. Perfect neve meant this was technically easy..." What sort of belay were you expecting: a pair of bolts and a chain, three bomber hexes? From what I remember from doing that route years ago, the top is just an open snow slope then the cornice. You say it was perfect neve and you had a pair of axes - make a T-axe and dig a bucket seat below the cornice and let your mate lead through.
Get yourself on an introductory winter climbing course, find somebody more experienced to climb with or we will soon be saying our thoughts are with your family at this difficult time.
1
In reply to All:
Is it possible to keep this thread to conditions as I know a number of people, myself included, have found it very useful this season - it would be a shame to get too sidetracked.
Thanks.
Is it possible to keep this thread to conditions as I know a number of people, myself included, have found it very useful this season - it would be a shame to get too sidetracked.
Thanks.
3
In reply to Exile:
Should a new thread be started? I'm sick of having to scroll to the bottom all the time. Plus, this tit for tat has spoiled it.
Should a new thread be started? I'm sick of having to scroll to the bottom all the time. Plus, this tit for tat has spoiled it.
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Come on give the guy a break, it's gone well this thread this year until now and has been very useful to many. Stick to conditions. Everyone falls at some point on any type of ground.
Come on give the guy a break, it's gone well this thread this year until now and has been very useful to many. Stick to conditions. Everyone falls at some point on any type of ground.
3
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
Good post here about Bowfell Buttress at the weekend.
http://wp.me/p14X6I-1aN
Good post here about Bowfell Buttress at the weekend.
http://wp.me/p14X6I-1aN
In reply to Daniel Duerden:
I wondered that as I was thinking the same thing, but I have skimmed through the entire thread a few times when trying to remember how the season as a whole has gone.
I wondered that as I was thinking the same thing, but I have skimmed through the entire thread a few times when trying to remember how the season as a whole has gone.
In reply to Daniel Duerden:
*Top Tip - at the top of every thread on the left hand side there's a down arrow in a box which takes you to the bottom of the page.
> I'm sick of having to scroll to the bottom all the time. Plus, this tit for tat has spoiled it.
*Top Tip - at the top of every thread on the left hand side there's a down arrow in a box which takes you to the bottom of the page.
In reply to GPN:
The 'End' key on a standard keyboard will do that too - and 'Home' for the top. Obviously no good on a tablet or phone but I thought I'd throw it in there.
The 'End' key on a standard keyboard will do that too - and 'Home' for the top. Obviously no good on a tablet or phone but I thought I'd throw it in there.
1
In reply to GPN:
Brilliant tip - thanks.
Brilliant tip - thanks.
1
In reply to Daniel Duerden:
just for everbodys attention i created a new thread last nite for conditions only its call new lakes conditions
just for everbodys attention i created a new thread last nite for conditions only its call new lakes conditions
In reply to Alastair Cochran:
How's thigd looking in the lakes at the moment been up north of the border and not been up to date. I know it looks fantastic out there.
How's thigd looking in the lakes at the moment been up north of the border and not been up to date. I know it looks fantastic out there.
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Winter Conditions
This Winter Conditions page gives a summary of what is being climbed at the moment, what is 'in' nick and what the prospects are...
22 Apr
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