Advice on trousers for winter mounatineering.

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Mullany 14 Dec 2014
Hello
I intend to invest in some new leg wear to replace my current system of baselayer, traksuite bottoms and a paclite shell. Whatever I buy will mainly be used for Scottish winter climbing with occasional trips to Scandinavia. Im currently considering Buffalo HA salopettes and Paramo Aspira Salopettes. I already have a pile Pertex smock which is great as it is very breathable and easy to vent which means I dont overheat on the walk in and I remain warm when sat on a belay. One layer, all day. Perfect.
Generally (regardless of temprature) I seem to need less layers than most people when Im moving but (probably due to my skinnyness) I get very cold quite quickly when I stop.
Can anyone tell me if either of these salopettes offer the same from the car, all day comfort in one layer as the jacket? Are they robust enough to justify their price? Does anyone who heats up and cools down quickly like me have another system I have not considered?
Cheers
Paul
 PN82 14 Dec 2014
In reply to Mullany:

I use paramo aspira salopettes for Scottish winter and find them to be fantastic. Warm, breathable and very comfortable, the only thing I would say is take a small foam seat with you so if you do sit down in the snow then the water doesn't soak through the fabric (all paramo clothing does this).

The knee foam pad inserts are a great touch and in horrendous Scottish blizzards you do really feel protected from the weather and cosy. My only criticism is that mine are slightly short in the leg, I paid for £90 for a pair off eBay and money very well spent.
Mullany 14 Dec 2014
In reply to PN82:

Cheers. I only have wee legs so I should be fine. At £90 you got bargain. Ill have a hunt around.
 TobyA 14 Dec 2014
In reply to Mullany:

I used Buffalo salopettes for years in Scotland. I tended to wear light long johns under them. Originally I bought the full zip ones thinking I would walk in longjohns or tracksters or whatever and then put them on before climbing. As it was, I rarely did and found I could walk up in them fine and the zips offered plenty of ventilation. After a good few years of hard use one of the zips broke, but the pertex was well worn by then so I figured just chuck them out and replace with a new pair. The second pair I bought with just the half zips and they're fine still 15 years or something later. I've used them much less in recent years having not been in Scotland and trying out different systems, but I can say they saw me through quite a few winter seasons of regular climbing there and I don't remember getting cold legs or, on the other hand, stupidly sweaty. When I get to go back to Scotland this winter I might well take them out of the cupboard and take them up the hills for a spin once again!
 Bluebird 14 Dec 2014
In reply to TobyA:

Did you ever used the zips on the buff salopettes? I picked up a pair of teclites in EBay and wear them everywhere and don't feel the need for zips... Just wondering if I'm missing a trick?
 KellyKettle 14 Dec 2014
In reply to Mullany:
I would second what Toby said about the Full Zip buffalo salopettes, Halfzip is undoubtedly better for venting if you're in them all day.

I got full zips for 20 quid on eBay, and ended up adding extra tabs of Velcro to allow me to vent the tops of my legs without the whole sallopette unfurling.

One thing I will say, is if you run hot the full DP system may be a bit hot in all but the worst conditions. Sallopettes and smock together are substantially better insulators than the smocks alone... Ideal at 10pm in a snowstorm, not so good at noon in bright sun on a windless day.

If I was buying again I'd be tempted by techlite salopettes or dp trousers to run a bit cooler (I stay dry, not sweaty; but find myself getting uncomfortably warm on long fast walk-ins). However I instead tend to use norrona flex1 or troll microfibre windproof Kecks over thin micropile longjohns when it gives good weather

That said, bottom line, the buffalo system is the cheapest, most versatile way to keep safe and comfortable in every conceivable winter condition; I wouldn't be without mine.
Post edited at 21:15
Mullany 15 Dec 2014
In reply to TobyA:

Cheers TobyA. Getting 15 years out them is great. Stuff that is wrecked after a couple of seasons is a bit annoying. Going off what yourself and Kellykettle have said it would seem that I would not go far wrong if I went for the buffalo's with the half zip. This is good because they are much cheaper than the Paramo system.
Have a good winter.
Cheers!
 RoK 16 Dec 2014
In reply to TobyA:

Any opinions on the special6 trousers? I'm assuming they are a just a non salopette version of the ones you mentioned above Toby.
 thedatastream 16 Dec 2014
In reply to Mullany:

Yet another +1 for the Buffalo salopettes. Used a pair of full zip ones for a couple of winter seasons in Scotland and they are toasty, almost too warm on the walk in even when vented down to the ankles! They are like wearing a hug.

Best of all they don't start to smell even after a week of climbing in them every day.

I'd prefer another inch on the leg length but it's only a minor issue.
 Carolyn 16 Dec 2014
In reply to Mullany:

I've used Paramo in a similar way - ie generally with a thin baselayer under them on my legs, and the zips wide open to vent on the walk in. Mine have nearly full length zips (come to near top of leg, but not all the way to waistband) and again that's been fine. I would go for sallopettes next time given the choice, as the trousers can end up leaving a bit of gap round the waist (although OK once you've got a harness on)

Works as well as can be expected - although whilst I get very cold standing about, I don't tend to get over hot on walk ins either.

Not quite sure how long I've had them - maybe 4 years - and I've only just managed to put a (small, patchable) hole in the bottom of the trousers.
 Pete-West88 16 Dec 2014
In reply to Mullany:

I just tried out a pair of Aspira Salopettes for the first time this weekend. Just had on some wicking boxers underneath and they were perfect from car to climb and back again. Never too cold and didnt overheat. The foam inserts work well. Havn't had them on in wet conditions yet so cant comment on that. Only criticism of them is that the built in gaiter is a bit guff. But got a practically new pair on fleabay dirt cheap so very happy with them.
 KellyKettle 16 Dec 2014
In reply to RoK:

If i had my time again I think I'd have had the trousers over the salopettes, you don't have the protective patches, but you don't have the extra layer over your torso either...

For more active adventures and hot-running people they're perhaps better than the sallopettes, so long as you mind your crampons on the inside leg of them (or use short gaiters to protect the trouser itself) They should be grand.
 RoK 16 Dec 2014
In reply to KellyKettle:

Cheers KellyKettle, I have a few pairs of membrane and non membrane softshell trousers of various weights and have to say I get on well with them. Always have my eye on other systems though.
 TobyA 16 Dec 2014
In reply to RoK:

Not used them. The salopettes are warm but they have loads of venting for the walk in and that chest/back protection adds plenty of warmth to your top half as well meaning when used with the Special 6 Shirt (or Big Face - what I had, and superb if silly looking), then I found I only on needed my belay jacket (I had the simple Buffalo one too) less often.

Occasionally on the coldest days (on the Ben for instance) or on trips to Arctic Norway, I would also take my duvet jacket, but for most Scottish climbing I found the salopettes, Big Face and Belay Jacket was all I needed. I got a discount working in a shop at the time, so the whole system was less than 200 quid, which might get a decent goretex jacket at the time, but not much else - so it was the most cost effective system back then.
Mullany 31 Dec 2014
In reply to Mullany:

In the end I went for the Buffalo HA salopettes half zip. I have been out in them three times and am so far very pleased. Combined with Montane's equivalent of a buffalo shirt I was overall pretty comfortable. In any temperature below zero overheating was not a problem with the vents open and closing those vents was all that was needed to stay warm when I stopped. In strong winds on belays I found a lightweight waterproof smock on top to be adequate but have since tried using a light synthetic insulated jacket (Cragghoppers £30 Go Outdoors) and this works brilliantly. Definitely the most comfortable I have been in proper nasty Scottish conditions .
I did the Aonach Eagach in warmer conditions and on the walk in I was certainly hot and sweaty but it was bearable and the clothing dried really quickly once the going got easier.
The most impressive thing with this gear is how warm it remains when you are soaked. Yesterday I got soaked digging through a cornice. It was late as we topped out and the ropes and gear started to freeze but I remained warm and the trousers and shirt still dried out pretty quickly. In other gear I think I would have froze.
I can definitely recommend the Ha Salopettes and pile pertex clothing in general. Cheers to everyone who took part in this post.

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