UKH

Hi folks.
I've got a BD ATC guide belay device. I like it, it's fine. It does the job.

I've recently seen another guide belay device where the 'release hole' - the bit you can attach a sling to or stick the nose of a carabiner through to release when in guide mode - was big enough to get a whole locking carabiner through.

I thought that was a serious design flaw, as several pitches up with the cold and the gloom coming, it'd be possible to start belaying, thinking you're in guide mode, but actually with the device upside down, with presumably no self-locking capability at all. Potentially killing two people.

Am I being a drama queen or is it an fundamentally lethal design flaw?

In reply to KTC:

The holes are perpendicular to each other and it wouldn't take much time to understand that something is terribly wrong.

In theory, an inverted belay device with ropes attached the right way should work, shouldn't it? My ATC Guide is quite new (less than year old) and Edelrid Nineteen G wiregate still fits in the hole and can rotate rather freely.

In reply to PPP:

The device I saw had the two holes ('hang from' and 'release') in the same orientation.

I suspect the device would work as an attended belay device, but probably not as an auto-lock. The contact patch on the rope would be very small. Anyway, one vote for 'drama queen' Thankyou

In reply to KTC:

Oh, I was sure you meant an older generation of ATC Guide (though I am not sure about their holes) instead of DMM Pivot. Indeed, a screwgate fits into a release hole.

Once again, wouldn't that work? Strength shouldn't be compromised, though as you said, there would be less friction. I wonder how would that affect the auto blocking feature. I have a habit to make sure that my belay device locks off and the screwgate is done every time. Even if I use Grigri, I still check whether it locks off.

In reply to KTC: Not sure why there should be an issue. After all, guide plates like the Kong GiGi are completely symmetrical so there isn't a right or wrong orientation.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:
Two issues spring to my mind:
1/ The design loading of the release hole. If it's not supposed to hold a carabiner, has it been load tested to support possibly two people?
2/ If it's ok to use the wrong way up.. why does one side of the slot have a 20mm long trench for the rope to be pushed into, when upside-down there'd be near point-contact on a (guessing) 1.5mm radius edge.

In reply to KTC:

The GiGi and the Camp Ovo are completely symetrical and the one from Climbing Technology effectively is regarding the anchoring holes. you must be thinking of something else.

In reply to KTC:

It's hard to judge the validity of your point without knowing which belay device you're actually talking about. Care to share?

In reply to Luke90:

It's the Ocun Ferry.

In reply to KTC:

In that case, I totally see what you mean. Having said that, I still think you're over-dramatising it

It does seem possible to clip it the wrong way up and it does seem likely that the autolocking wouldn't function very effectively, if at all, that way. However, the two holes seem pretty distinct (based purely on online images) and if anyone's going to use it "several pitches up with the cold and the gloom coming", I'd expect them to have familiarised themselves with the device beforehand.

I can appreciate the problem it solves because I've found previous guide mode devices rather fussy about which krabs will work for unlocking them.

Ultimately, I think all guide mode devices introduce extra complexity and an associated risk of getting it wrong. It's up to the user to learn to use them correctly and get it right. This device does seem to introduce a marginal extra risk but it doesn't strike me as an enormous flaw and it does appear to be balanced by some extra convenience.