UKH

Just wondering how people are layering for ski-ing in Scotland, and if it's any different to what you wear winter hillwalking? I started ski-ing last year, so only on piste at the moment, but I am keen to the point of stupidity so don't mind going out in minging conditions.

Last year, for good weather I wore:
Long sleeve base layer, mid weight fleece, gore-tex shell on top. Long johns and winter weight waterproof overtrousers on the bottom.

The coldest/windiest/grimmest days I tried:
Long sleeve baselayer, 100g primaloft hooded belay jacket, goretex shell on top. Same as above on bottom.

The good weather days are generally fine when ski-ing, just get a bit cold if the lift stops or the wind picks up. Bad days are tricky. Belay jacket great for the first lifts, then overheat on the first run and get wet, cool down on the lift, repeat. End the day with a soggy belay jacket.

Been thinking a 60g primaloft vest could be the way to go for bad days? Or perhaps a winter weight softshell with good ventilation? Zip it all up on the lift, vent on the way down, plus it breathes better? Maybe I just need a warmer base layer or two?

I could ski with a bag and use the belay jacket on the lifts, but I do enjoy the freedom without, especially when winter walking bags are heavy. Total first world problems but thought a discussion could be interesting.

In reply to Taurig:

Wont be a very interesting dicsussion !!

Long sleeve base layer, powerfleece mid, powerfleece or normal base layer longs, shell pants and jacket, synthetic jacket in bag for stops and lunch, that's touring mind, layering gives the best options, for piste i just use insulated pants and a warmer mid.........

In reply to Taurig:

Wear what you wear for winter walking and keep an extra fleece in your backpack along with your thermos of lentil soup. Plus snood and gloves, plus gloves and even more gloves. Lift served skiing doesn't use much energy so it won't warm you much, but it will get you to some ferociously cold, high and windy places very quickly and you'll be grateful for putting the extra layer on. The first time you ride a tbar or poma with damp gloves, or summit in a freezing gale while on a ski tour, you'll realise why you needed extras in your backpack.

In reply to moffatross:


That's true when you're a reasonable skier, but the OP says he only started last year, so I wonder if he's using more energy and generating more heat? In which case the answer is learn to ski better

In reply to Taurig:

It's probably worth adding that on cold days I wear way more than that for "resort" skiing - don't get way too hot skiing, and I spend more time on the lifts than going down. But I feel the cold, so may not be a very useful benchmark. I guess the key point is I rarely change clothing in the day apart from changing gloves or adding layer on face.

Ski touring is a completely different matter - very easy to get hot on the up

In reply to Carolyn:

I dunno about you but I always need to remove layers for the scotch pie and hot chocolate breaks! =O

To OP, I usually carry a backpack with water, snacks, and a belay type jacket. I don't think I lose any freedom, and you don't need a winter walking bag, just a wee backpack. It also carries phone, camera, hat, spare gloves, sunglasses (hah!), etc. as required.

In reply to Carolyn:

Despite the cheekiness of your comment, I can't but agree that my ski-ing is inefficient. So yes, I probably am generating more heat than others on the slope. That said, I'm fairly confident that I'm not going to be content puntering around blues for the rest of my days, so I envisage I will be working hard for the forseeable future.

Ok, I take the point about the thread not being all that interesting, so lets change it. Forecast is for bright sun in the morning, but after lunch the temp is to drop, the wind will pick up and it'll start to snow. Rucksacs have been banned. It's run what you brung, so what do you wear?

In reply to Taurig:
What I wear to keep warm won't necessarily help you.

Wear what you'd wear for winter walking and experiment!!! experiment!!! Experiment!!!!

got it?

In reply to Taurig:

If you are talking about skiing at the ski centres, you go back to your car, and put the right clothes on for the afternoon. You're never that far away from the car park. Alternatively, just get a small light rucksack to stuff the additional things in.

In reply to Scomuir:

You are technically correct, sir, but defiantly avoiding the thrust of this rapidly collapsing discussion.

My main point is, on cold, windy days my current gear is leaving me either chilled to the bone on the lift, or soaking in sweat after a couple of runs. Therefore, the consumerist gear freak and the lazy git that doesn't want to wear a bag in me are combining to say I need to make a purchase. A purchase of a mythical wonder garment that will keep me warm (but not too warm) and dry. Any subjective thoughts on what that might be appreciated.

In reply to Taurig:

You're going to struggle to buy a "mythical wonder garment", given that it's "mythical". You are also in danger of shattering the illusion held by many that it's never nice weather when skiing in Scotland,

If you are "soaking in sweat after a couple of runs", then maybe you are working far too hard on the descents - piste skiing shouldn't result in that much sweating, so maybe spend the money on learning to expend less energy instead?

However, in keeping with your request, i use a montane smock. Can be well vented on the warm days. If it's really minging, waterproof on top of that. Spare gloves are essential.

In reply to Taurig:

Jes








Jesus youth...just pull on a kag and get out there. If it looks cold you'll need a extra jumper.
Try not to turn something quite interesting into something very boring.

In reply to jimjimjim:

Each to their own.

In reply to Taurig:
I've never skiied in Scotland, In the Alps, quite a lot. Getting cold, getting hot is part of skiing. Ski gear has various cunning means of ventilation to reduce that. Also, lots of pockets. Wearing a pack shouldn't be necessary on-piste. I don't think "wear what you'd wear for hillwalking" is good advice. Ski gear is different. Go somewhere good that sells it, take a credit card.

In reply to Dogwatch:

as you say, you've never skied in Scotland...

It is different to the Alps, in many ways.

In reply to Taurig:

Skiing in scotland is bloody freezing. Especially if you are around Aviemore, the exposure on those drag lifts is way worse than anything in the alps! Especially if (like me) you are boarding.
You don't really create much heat on the decents, unless you are really going hell for leather on some gnarly mogul run, so take extra mid-layers. Don't take the belay jacket, it'll get wet in about 10 seconds and be a right pain.

Easier way of staying comfortable is go to the alps instead.

In reply to Scomuir:

Indeed, last time I skied in Scotland it was proper T shirt weather, which lead to me painting a red streak on the snow with my arm when I fell and still having the scar to show, so my advice is wear long sleeves even when it's scorchio!


I like wearing my Paramo smock, which I guess is very similar to the advice above. Dachstein mitts are good too, despite not being ultra fashionable ski gear.

In reply to Taurig:


I'm not the only one to have made the suggestion now

But yes, I imagine you have a few more seasons of expending lots of energy of progressively harder runs (and getting hot on the downhill) ahead of you yet.... there does come a point when going down a piste is fairly effortless, though. Even a Scottish piste. On a good day.....

Oh, I can recommend not skiing in a full Scottish whiteout in just cycling tights and a Buffalo (not me, but a friend, on what was going to be an October mountain biking trip!)

In reply to Taurig:

Based on my one experience of Scottish skiing when I was a kid;

waterproof jacket
Waterproof trousers
poncho
rubber ring
swim hat


needless to say, it was wet and rainy

In reply to Taurig:

The main thing to do is look at the forecast - as you've already said, there are warmer days and colder days. Having said that, the temperatures don't go as low as much higher altitudes in the alps or north America. I tend to use a couple of layers and an uninsulated jacket with plenty of vents, and uninsulated trousers, and I put up with getting a bit cold at times. Like others, I sometimes carry a small backpack so I can take extra clothing in case I need it, but in the main I rely on vents rather than multiple layers. None of the Scottish ski centres takes you far from the car park or a café.

In reply to Taurig:

You want one mythical garment that will transform your mountain day? That'll keep you warm and toasty without bulk? In which you'll stay dry all day long? And good value I hear you add?

You're all looking in the wrong place. it's not the outer shell that will do the trick. No, you need a Brjyne Mesh base layer.

In reply to Pewtle:


Ever been at 3000m (-20C) in February on a chairlift in a gale? It happens in the Alps. A day or two later you can be in thawing conditions at 1200m.

In reply to Taurig:

For skiing I wear...ski gear. for walking I wear walking gear. I have no layering system, I just have a good ski jacket! and by that I mean a 10 year old mountain warehouse £80 ski jacket, im not even on about a £500 all singing all dancing patagoucci! I just wear 1 layer on my legs and 2 on my torso and have never been too cold skiing in alps, rockies or Scotland (where I do most of my skiing). I have been too hot mind, but zips can be undone and hats taken off.

just go out and spend £100-200 on a set of ski trousers and jacket and be done with it, no need to over think things.

(of course I am on about resort skiing, back country is a different story)

In reply to Webster:

I just wear 1 layer on my legs and 2 on my torso and have never been too cold skiing in alps, rockies or Scotland (where I do most of my skiing). I have been too hot mind...


So in fact you've been cold and you've been hot. With a proper layering system you'll always be just right. I get it that you don't really mind a bit if discomfort, but that isn't necesarily how others, including presumably the OP, feel about it.

In reply to Dogwatch:


A few times, but whenever that happens I pack it in and make hasty tracks for the nearest bar and warm up with a large number of vin chaud's and nibbles. God bless resort skiing.

In reply to Taurig:

Haven't skied in Scotland, but did a lot on Canadian west coast where it was often warm and wet, interspersed with periods of utterly atrocious howling winds and blizzards.

I found the answer was largely down to avoiding membranes by skiing in soft shells. That way the sweat breathes but you still get a fair bit of protection from the elements.

I used a Rab VR jacket and Schoeller trousers as my outer layer. I'd wear a fleece hoodie, pertex windshirt and powershell layer under the jacket. If due to be really cold (ie going up Whistler on a clear January day) I'd wear thin goretex trousers and thick thermal tights below and add a primaloft belay jacket on top. That would be good down to about -30.

If really wet with driving wind around freezing point (and even occasional rain), my kit would eventually get damp, but this was only really a problem after 4-5 hours on the hill. You also sometimes get the true Scottish winter effect of your wet outer layer freezing up and creating a toasty little den.

Let's face it, most people just ski in a really thick insulated jacket and trousers (most are moderately waterproof; properly so for more robust 'big mountain' and touring stuff) and use hats/scarves and zips to modulate. It's only weirdos like us who are using walking/climbing kit that have to even think about it.

In reply to hamsforlegs:

Hah, can't argue with your last point, given the vast majority are wearing tkmaxx ski jackets. Makes this thread seem a little indulgent.

Sounds like west Canada is closer to Scottish conditions than the Alps? I can definitely see your logic in softshell. I wonder if a membrane softshell would be better in variable/damp conditions, or would it defeat the purpose?

On a good day, base layer and stretchy, fleece backed softshell might be ideal for comfort, then extra fleece when it turns grim?

In reply to BnB:


Where did I say I had been cold?

A "proper" layering system requires the ability to rapidly take layers on and off (and therefore do something with them) which is rather impractical when skiing, especially as it will be the middle layers which you are mostly changing.

In reply to Taurig:


Yes; very similar to Scotland. Probably warmer/colder at the extremes, and more snow overall.

Can't answer for membrane softshells. As above, my schoeller/VR/pertex/thinsulate cocktail did a good job across a range of conditions.


Sounds about right, but only if it's very sunny and settled. On sunny days in Canada I would just be in an R1 hoodie and pertex shirt if not going very high. No baselayer. Might want an extra layer in Scotland as the sun in Canada could be more intense than I've experienced in UK. The pertex windshirt does quite a bit of work - probably my most versatile ever outdoor purchase and very handy as a totally breathable lightweight booster for your kit when wind is a big factor. Without this, you may lean more toward a thin fleece and a hardshell. Stopping the wind is fairly key in preventing huge swings in temperature.

In reply to Taurig:

If you want to regulate temperature without adding removing layers then lots of options for venting your outer waterproof/windproof layer are the priority. I find Paramo is good for this. Adding or removing hat, buff, scarf etc can make a big difference too. You will still get too hot and sweat at times so a good wicking base layer is important too. Add fleece layers over the base layer as necessary depending on the forecast and how hot you tend to be when skiing.

In reply to Taurig:
One warning about Paramo gear (in my experience) is that its great for winter hillwalking as stated above, I swear by it, but it has one disadvantage, its pretty slidey if not lethal on steep firm or icey snow when or if you fall and I prefer something more frictional and tougher for skiing.
Just my experience of 40+ years of skiing in Scotland and 20 years of Paramo in one form or another

In reply to mcdweeb:


I doubt it's any worse than any of the other fabrics available unless you've got some sort of hairy self arrest suit.

In reply to Taurig:


For Alpine skiing:

I've always used 'walking' gear, apart from sometimes using salopettes; the only specialist ski clothing I've bought.

I've been using non-membraned soft shell stuff for skiing for about the last ten years (unless it's actually raining), and find it more comfortable for skiing.

Recently, a Mixmaster jacket over a merino baselayer. When the Mixmaster can't cope with the wind, I add a pertex shell on top (or pertex gilet undeneath). And carry a 60g PL1 jacket, or lightweight down jacket in a small MTB backpack. Or even more recently, a ThermalPro mid layer and ReadyMix jacket on top. Trousers for the last four years have been the Quechua/Simond mountaineering trousers, with home-made thinsulate liners.

When very cold, I've used a Montane Extreme smock.

A good base layer helps with the stored sweat problem (thin and wicking), and good venting options help the fug escape.

My one experience of Scottish skiing was using

In reply to Taurig:

On a good day I'd only wear a base layer and hard shell, adding a lightweight fleece for a poor day and another mid-layer if it's really crap. I've only skied in Scotland once, but I found the main problem was the biting wind on my face, rather than getting generally cold. I'd rather put up with some mild discomfort on the lift than be constantly hot and sticky on the way down.