UKH

thinking of upgrading from G12s to vertical front points for waterfall ice (trip to rjukan this january), in the belief they will penetrate the ice better and cause less dinnerplating. But which ones? have used grivel g12s before and really like them, so my natural inclination is to go for a pair of G14s - but am I just being uniomaginative and are other options better ? and which binding - what are the pros and cons of crampomatic vs newmatic? (think both will fit my boots). newmatic looks simpler and more forgiving to me, so it follows there must be some other advantage to the crampomatic...questions, questions...all advice appreciated

In reply to pebbles:

If you're plannin ' on keepin' them G12s.

Some vertical and replaceable frontpoint cramps would be good.

How ever, I find that the secondary points on G14s don't point enough forwards (just like on my Darts). So perhaps look into Rambo 4s.

Naturally Lynx and/or Stinger might be feasable options as well.

In reply to pebbles:

I've used rambos, terminators, g14's and footfangs. Believe it or not, footfangs were my fav - felt incredibly solid and secure which helped me relax and climb better. My view is that unless climbing at the highest standard, its splitting hairs saying which is the best - they're all pretty good. Key factor is which fits your boot best. For instance, a narrow boot means a shorter front point.

The rare times i get out I stick with g14's newmatics, and would be happy climbing WI4/5 in them. And they are good for walking in too (all my others were relatively rubbish for walking in).

In reply to pebbles: For a second pair for pure ice use I'd have thought Grivel G20 or perhaps better G22s would have been the way forward. I currently have Air Techs and G20s.

Also, FWIW IMO Petal Lynx are an all-round better option than G14s, but both are heavier than the fixed front point options.

Crampomatic style designs CAN offer a more solid attachment, but they are also much more dependent on the boot design and can be really awkward to fit well.

However, as already mentioned it is probably a moot point as the differences between designs in improving how hard you climb is probably minimal. What is crucial is getting a good fit with your particular boots.

In reply to pebbles:

Since you'll probably just end up changing G14s to monopoints anyway, you might do better just to get G20s to begin with. Much lighter, and a bit cheaper.

If the boot's will take it, I'd say Cramp-o-matic is the binding to go for, as they'll clamp on more tightly.

In reply to pebbles:

I'm pretty unconvinced you'll find anything that feels so different to the G12s unless its very cold (-15 or colder), I'm wearing G12s in the pic in my profile and they're fine on vertical ice. For years and years previously I wore terminators as monos almost solely and they're great, but having done more steep ice in G12s in recent years I'm not sure the difference is as big as I used to think! If you do want something with a mono, i'd just go really light and get Darts, G20s or perhaps even this extreme light crazyness! http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=6227 It is nice climbing with very light feet, but your boots are the major part of that.

In reply to pebbles:

G14s are great all round crampons but I wouldn't buy a pair if I had a pair of G12s unless you do hard alpine stuff. Get yourself a pair of darts if you have a pair of light boots. Moving in light boots with light crampons are so much easier than the chunkier offerings and a pair of G20s on a pair of scarpa rebel ultras was a liberating experience.

I'm a big crampomatic fan for technical crampons. I much prefer that kind of fitting

In reply to pebbles:

Cramp-o-matic Lynx set to Mono's get my vote for WI and any mixed climbing. Like others have said, light boots may actually make the biggest difference on WI. I use cramp-o-matic 12 point vasak (effectively a petzl version of a G12) for all general alpine or greater ranges or easy scottish.

In reply to pebbles: I think Grivel G20's are the best on the market for waterfall ice, with mono darts a close second.

Andy

In reply to pebbles:

the best crampons are the ones that fit your boots properly :p

In reply to pebbles:

Personally I don't like monos for waterfall ice. I started out on G12s and moved on to G14s, trying them in both the dual and mono front point settings. Of all these combinations, the G14 with dual front points is my favourite for sure. Mono point just seemed harder work for me on ice, though I can imagine the benefits for mixed stuff.

In reply to neilwiltshire:


Depends on ice. Basic and nice WI ice up to say WI5'ish, monos or dual points, it really doesn't matter all that much.

Highly featured ice (generally as grades go WI5, but can also be true on thin WI3), monos shine.

Also, temperature plays a part. Cold ice (say sub -20 C) is rather brittle and monos displace less ice -> better. For "hero" ice (ie. wet and around -5 C or so), it really doesn't matter all that much.

In reply to HeMa:

Ah, that explains it then, the hardest I've climbed is WI5, that was once, and it was fairly fat ice.

In reply to HeMa:


Wot he said! Although even sharp monos can still feel scary on hard ice at -20 and below.

HeMa - have you got any ice yet? Am I missing out on some conditions?

In reply to TobyA:

No ice yet... mixdead season is prolly starting in a bit over a week, at least if I were to trust the forecasts.

But flying north today and heading to Stora Sjöfallet .

BTW. have around 10 potential new crags... I need to get better to open up more interesting lines.