Help me choose: Montane v ME v Arct' belay jackets

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iamaclimber 02 Nov 2014
Hi

Can anyone offer any insights or advice on the Montane Flux versus the ME Fitzroy as a belay jacket for cold Scottish climbing. Also how does the new Spitfire jacket and Ice Guide jacket from Montane compare? The Arcteryx Atom SV is another option that I am considering.

Many thanks
 RoK 02 Nov 2014
In reply to iamaclimber:

No experience of any of those but the Atom SV has been replaced by the Atom AR so you might get a deal on an SV if price is a big factor.
I have an AR and it's a bit trim fitting for a belay jacket.
 nv 02 Nov 2014
In reply to iamaclimber:

I've used a few heavy duty jackets from these companies. I work in a shop that sells them.

The only two for consideration:

M.E. Citadel Jacket
Black Diamond Belay Parka (once you cut off the stupid zip toggles and replace with cord)

Nick
 Neil Pratt 02 Nov 2014
In reply to iamaclimber:

Being a total gear addict, I have an Atom SV, an ME Fitzroy and an Ice Guide - I need help! The Atom and Fitzroy are broadly comparable in terms of warmth - bought the Atom in last years sales and it seems to loft more and feels more like down when on, but the Fitzroy has been very dependable for a few years now - face fabric has held up to Winter climbing punishment. I bought the Ice Guide to try as a 'one layer' solution, but to be honest, I've only used it for winter activities where it's a substitute for a down jacket - it's nicely fitted, warm and easier to clean/look after than a down jacket, but maybe too trim to be worn over multiple layers.
 smuffy 02 Nov 2014
In reply to Nick.V:
Plus one for the ME Citadel, it's so toasty.
Post edited at 19:30
iamaclimber 02 Nov 2014
In reply to Neil Pratt:

Cheers. Would you class the Ice Guide as a belay jacket? Would it work over a shell and a couple of layers? I found the Atom quite fitter when I tried it too.

Also I guess the Spitfire is super warm and more akin to the ME Citadel?
 iksander 03 Nov 2014
In reply to iamaclimber: I think the Flux is Primaloft Eco which while sufficient isn 't as water resistant (expensive) as Primaloft Gold which the Fitzroy has. Fitzroy also has more resistant outer fabric. Personally I think that a massive jacket like Citadel etc are overkill for
Scotland unless you're planning on belaying for hours on end.
 BnB 03 Nov 2014
In reply to iamaclimber:

Of the usual suspects it'd be a simple toss-up between Rab Generator Alpine or ME Fitzroy for Scottish winter. The Flux is oddly shaped (good if you are too, I suppose...) and has inferior insulation so I would discount that (for me).

Occasionally you get other bargains from leftfield (usually in Spring!!). I have a TNF Makalu which packs 133g Primaloft Gold/One, so a third extra warmth in the body and more than that in the arms for a weight penalty of under 100g.
 Neil Pratt 03 Nov 2014
In reply to iamaclimber:

Regards the Ice Guide - it really depends on how slim built you are. I don't think it's designed primarily as an over layering belay jacket in the sense we're discussing here; I'd struggle to get mine on over 3 or 4 layers including a winter shell jacket, but then I'm at the 'prop forward' end of the body type scale. If you're slimmer built, then you might well find it fits nicely.

If you happen to work around Glasgow and a size L, you'd be welcome to drop in past my work for a quick try on.
 climber34neil 04 Nov 2014
In reply to iamaclimber:

I have been using the flux for the last couple of years and am more than happy with it, fit is excellent, warmth is ideal, no complaints at all .I think they will all do the job just go for the best fit for you, the right amount of insulation for you and the one you like the look of!
In reply to iamaclimber:

Montane Flux - not a true belay jacket, just a thin layer that provides a bit of warmth.

Atom - a bit better than Flux.

Fitzroy - medium weight belay jacket, a true belay jacket.

The DAS, the Citadel - top end bomber belay jackets.
In reply to iamaclimber:

+1 for the Black Diamond stuff. The Belay Parka is significantly more jacket than the Atom SV, but it depends on the kind of conditions you're in. I think I picked mine up for around £170 which was a bargain for what it is. Probably too much for basic UK winter, however their different belay jackets cover a range of conditions.

 Neil Pratt 04 Nov 2014
In reply to nickinscottishmountains:

are you maybe thinking of the Prism, rather than the Flux - the latter has the same 100g/60g combo of Primaloft as the Fitzroy, although Eco rather than One?
 David Cowley 04 Nov 2014
In reply to iamaclimber:
Montane now do an ice guide which has a thicker fill than the flux. I just upgraded to this and am looking forward to testing it this winter. Agree that the flux is a bit thin for extra cold days on a belay but it depends on you and your body. Check it out see what you think before you decide http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Insulated-Jacket-Reviews/Montane-Ice-Guide
Post edited at 23:53
 andrewmc 05 Nov 2014
In reply to iamaclimber:
I was a bit disappointed to find that Montane are using the cheaper (and less good) Primaloft Silver/Eco in everything except the Spitfire...
The few ratings I could find on the web suggest the warmth/weight is significantly less good (by maybe a third or so). Lighter weight than you are looking at but I bought an on-sale Rab Xenon X (60 g/cm^2 Primaloft One, ~400g) instead a similarly-priced on-sale Montane Flux (60/100 g/cm^2 Primaloft Eco in the arms/main body, respectively, ~600g) because I worked out that the Xenon X should be nearly as warm (something like 80% the warmth of the 100 g/cm^2 parts).
Post edited at 13:29
 BnB 05 Nov 2014
In reply to andrewmcleod:

With the modern fashion for climbing in breathable synthetic insulation (Atom LT, Rab Strata, newly launched Patagonia Nano Air) I wonder whether a Xenon or equivalent (for a 300g weight benefit) will be all you need, locking effectively 100-120g equivalent of Primaloft One in combination inside a weatherproof but moisture permeable outer. The big belay jacket may have had its day. I'll be experimenting this winter along these lines as well as taking refuge under 133g Primaloft one in the big 'un.
In reply to BnB:

> With the modern fashion for climbing in breathable synthetic insulation, The big belay jacket may have had its day

If it's breathable enough to move fast in I highly doubt it's warm enough to sit still in for any extended length of time.
 mattrm 06 Nov 2014
In reply to iamaclimber:

I have the ice guide. I don't think I'm that slim, but I'm certainly not a prop forward . Went on fine over baselayer, R1, softshell and hardshell. Was nice and toasty in it as well. I didn't have any really grim belays last year, as I hardly got out due to the poor conditions. But I reckon it's good. Price was ok as well.
 jezb1 06 Nov 2014
In reply to iamaclimber:

I feel the cold so the Fitzroy isn't warm enough for me as a proper belay jacket. Consider the Citadel..
 BnB 06 Nov 2014
In reply to purplemonkeyelephant:
Maybe I didn't explain that clearly enough. I meant all you might need is a Xenon (or equivalent) on TOP of your Atom LT/Nano Air/Strata, rather than carrying a bulky and heavy full belay jacket. ie 2 x half a belay jacket = 1 full one.
Post edited at 15:56
 galpinos 06 Nov 2014
In reply to BnB:

How does the Atom fit in with the other two? Surely "Coreloft" is more Primaloft than Alpha/whatever gubbins Patagucci use (recycled hemp woven with the tears of a vegetarian watching a salmon jump at a dam) so will just leave you in a sweaty mess?

I've not tried alpha but toyed with a primaloft midlayer (40g) and it was warm and sweaty. I've climbed and skied in my ME Bastion but it was pretty cold. I'd not fancy scottish gully climbing (generally a hot and sweaty affair) in it.

The Patagucci stuff is certainly marketed well.....
 Alpenglow 06 Nov 2014
In reply to iamaclimber:
I'd discount the Montane Flux due to the inferior insulation. (approx 75% as warm as gold)

Your best options for a 100g belay jacket are the ME Fitzroy or the Rab Generator Alpine.

The Arc' Alpha SV isn't really a belay jacket - more of a very warm midlayer.

If you run very cold or are spending lots of time belaying, your best options are the ME Citadel, Patagonia DAS or the Montane Spitfire One - difficult to choose between, however I'd probably go for the Montane (only because it's slightly warmer (240g primaloft one in the chest compared to 200g in the ME) and the hood cinches come out on the inside of the jacket and therefore won't whip you in the face when you're on a belay and the wind is howling).

Regarding the Rab Gen Alpine vs the ME Fitzroy the main differences are:
- Rab packs into own pocket (better) / ME has stuff sack (can fly off in wild conditions)
- Rab has a popper at the bottom (very useful when belaying) / ME doesn't
- ME has fleeced lined pockets / Rab doesn't
- Rab hood cinches come out on inside (so you don't get whipped in the face) / ME comes out on outside

They're both excellent belay jackets though (the Rab may have the slight edge - only just).

Source: I own a ME Fitzroy
Post edited at 16:28
 BnB 06 Nov 2014
In reply to galpinos:

Atom LT has breathable stretch fabric underarm vents. Quite effective though not as all-over breathable as the Alpha/Nano Air insulation
Dorq 07 Nov 2014
In reply to iamaclimber:

The BD Parka has been mentioned but the one down from it, called the Belay Hoody I think, might be worth trying on. Last year it had Primaloft Synergy in the body and P. One in the torso and arm side faces, which makes it a bit better fitting I think. This year might be the same fillings but called Silver etc. For some reason, the use of just a fraction of P. One confused a lot of seller listings and this may still be the case. Nice jacket though, except for the hood adjuster, which should have been one-handed (may have changed). BD seems to fit like Arcteryx IMO, not like Patagonia, that is, more room at chest and shoulders and less baggy at waist compared to Pat.

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