Crampons - Winter Grade II to V

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
 Finn Curry 28 Oct 2014

Hey,

I'm looking for advice on the best crampons to get for scottish winter, covering any grade from II to V. So far I've managed with B2 boots and B2 crampons but these are both very worn out now and I'm looking to upgrade. Scarpa Mont Blanc seem like the ideal boots but can anyone recommend the best C3 crampons to go with them?

Cheers.
Post edited at 08:13
 Aigen 28 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

Petzl Lync
OP Finn Curry 28 Oct 2014
In reply to Aigen:

Yep, they would seem like the favourite do far. Cheers.
 James Thacker 28 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

Petzl Lynx are heavy. Grivel G12, Petzl Vasak, EDELRID Shark or any standard 12 point crampon will be fine.
 Gazlynn 28 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

2nd Recommendation for the petzl lynx.

I think that if you're looking for crampons with a toe bail to fit your Scarpa boots then IMHO the petzl range is the best fitting.

cheers

Gaz


 goose299 28 Oct 2014
In reply to Gazlynn:

Another vote for the lynx too. Least then you can switch between mono and dual point
In reply to Finn Curry:

BD Stingers worth a look too, check out the pretty comprehensive March 2013 review, under the "gear" tab on ukc
In reply to Finn Curry:

Grivel have the best anti-balling plates, which is probably more important through grade III at least.
mick taylor 28 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

Really like my G12's for those grades.
mick taylor 28 Oct 2014
In reply to mick taylor:

meant to say G14's.
 The Potato 28 Oct 2014
In reply to Bob_the_Builder:
> (In reply to Finn Curry)
>
> Grivel have the best anti-balling plates, which is probably more important through grade III at least.

I personally think the Camp magiX have better anti balling features than the grivels, thats what my wife has, I use the Grivel G12 as they are tried and tested and been around for years.
 barbeg 28 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

Hiya,

As a "do it all" crampon from snow plods across the Cairngorm Plateau to high grade snow, ice, mixed and waterfalls, the Petzl Lynx are hard to beat I think due to their versatility and hard wearing components. Not the cheapest but a worthwhile investment.
Just my two penneth....
ANdy
 Michael Gordon 28 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

No real need to get C3 crampons. For these grades I'd just go with a good allrounder like the G12s.
In reply to Finn Curry

Any 12 point crampon will suffice, Petzl Lynx would be seriously too technical, they would benefit your climbing more above V.

Stuart


OP Finn Curry 28 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

Cheers everybody for the advice, much appreciated. I looks like a toss up between the Petzl Lynx and Grivel G14s. Time to go hunting for a good deal!!

 alasdair19 28 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

you do realise your ignoring the advice of the two most experienced climbers in the thread don't you.
OP Finn Curry 28 Oct 2014
In reply to alasdair19:

No, I hadn't. But I'll read the comments again. Thanks.
 Gazlynn 28 Oct 2014
In reply to Stuart the postie:
Hi Stuart

Please don't take this the wrong way I'm genuinly interested to know and learn. Why do you think that the Lynx crampons would be too technical?

Personally I find them reassuring when I'm on my punterish snowplods, with the extra teeth on the front plate (compared to most crampons) and when the needs must I can swap things about with the front points for those very rare easy ice and mixed routes that I attempt.

cheers

Gaz
Post edited at 18:29
 The Potato 28 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:
Id guess that too technical might mean, unnecessarily expensive, or perhaps more un-wieldly for steep walking or scrambling in snow, more points to catch and trip on etc ?
Post edited at 18:53
In reply to Finn Curry:

I'd go for Grivel G12s or similar if I were you.

Monos are brilliant but you won't notice the difference when you are just starting out. Also they are a lot heavier, less robust and more expensive.

In a couple of seasons time when you are regularly leading technical 6 it will be worth getting a pair of mono points.

Have fun



 aldo56 28 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

Another vote for a more traditional 12 point like the G12 here.

http://www.andy-kirkpatrick.com/articles/view/getting_the_right_crampon
 TobyA 28 Oct 2014
 lithos 28 Oct 2014
In reply to TobyA and others

Lynx fully loaded 1080g £170 (£150 from me as i have a BNWT pair)
G12s 1040g £120

don't think 40g will be that noticeable.

G12 would be fine, as would Lynx. Lynx more flexible for future. Hard wearing ? Lynx has replaceable front points (have to go for it to wear through G12s)

so in conclusion, cheaper yes, lighter - a bit, more hardwearing evidence ??
In reply to Gazlynn:

Hi Gaz,
I think simple 12 point poons would be more suitable for this guy, sounds like he's wanting to do easier/middle grade stuff. I think more specialist poons rock above tech 6 and on verticle water ice, though regular 12 points would suffice on this ground also.

Learn to use your feet and the limitations/advantages of regular poons, will make you a more experienced climber. You'll then know how to develop and climb harder with Lynx, etc crampons!

Stuart

 TobyA 28 Oct 2014
In reply to lithos:

Yep, Lynx's are lighter than older mod designs - although I tend not to use my anti-bots on my G12s in Finland, so then they're closer to 900 grams which is pleasantly light - but I think the 50 quid difference would swing it for me! I don't know if anyone has broken Lynxs but I've heard of people shearing the cross bolts on modular crampons, and I snapped the frame on my first pair of terminators. My G12s are 14 years old and fine although I've replaced the plastic front basket on them a couple of times.

Do you reckon there are any advantage in twin vertically aligned twin points over horizontal ones? Can't say I've seen it. I think if you get modular crampons you might as well go straight for monos on them, but even then after a decade of climbing with almost solely monos, I'm maybe following Will Gadd's line of thought that for ice at least there isn't that much difference between them and classic points. I suspect the biggest difference for people climbing hard routes in say Darts or G20s is their light weight more than the point arrangement. Using these stupid light ones made me really appreciate the difference that taking weight off your feet makes http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=6227 .
 lithos 28 Oct 2014
In reply to TobyA:

yep hear and agree with what you say, i was just putting a few 'facts' into the mix.

i've heard of modular cramps busting but i have M10s and they (weigh a ton) are bombproof.
I sort of agree cant see much difference in horizontals vs verts though i find mixed easier in vertical
points (prolly monos). I also agree about the weight but the lynx in mono with no bots is really light
as well (910g !)

the lynx gives you a ton of options (front fittings and point set up with offset dual - one long one shorter) and a spare point ... replacing the front section on darts is pricey..

I am not disagreeing with the G12s (and others - make sure the fit is goods) as a great all round suitable cramp for the OP, just the lynx is not so daft
 Nathan Adam 28 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:
G12's are what I use for everything (hill walking, scrambling and climbing up to around grade IV), if you can only afford one set of crampons then I'd go with the G12. You can get them second hand pretty cheap as well! Got mine for £80 posted on here a few seasons ago.
Post edited at 23:36
 Camm 29 Oct 2014
In reply to James Thacker:

There's less than 30g differnce between the Petzl Lynx and the Grivel G12 acording to Needlesports. So hardly too heavy...

In reply to ow arm:

I've never tried Camp crampons, you may be right. I was comparing with BD and Petzl, which are both rubbish for balling up.
OP Finn Curry 29 Oct 2014
In reply to TobyA:
Cheers Toby, and many others, for the interesting responses. I'm feeling now that I was perhaps being a bit overly concerned that my old C2 crampons weren't up to it anymore and it seems that I may as well sharpen them up again, get some more useage out of them, and invest all the 2014/15 budget in some decent new B3 boots. I had a soggy-footed few days up in the Ling Hut last year so I can definitely justify that investment!
But it's good to know more about the G12s/Lynxs (and others) for future reference - I highly doubt, with my limited time each season, that I'll ever be leading V or above though I aspire to IV but also love a winter stomp so it's all good knowledge. Cheers.
Post edited at 07:05
 BnB 29 Oct 2014
In reply to TobyA:

All this discussion about shaving 40g through astute crampon selection is a bit moot when a pair of Nepals weighs 800g(!!!) more than a pair of Rebel Ultras, or sticking to the middle grades, 600g more then the Scarpa Jorasses Pro.

I agree the G12 is a cracking crampon and the right choice for the OP, but on the odd steep ice or mixed outing, I'll take the Lynx.
 wilkie14c 29 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

I guess the more real world experience views the better so I'll chuck my hat in the ring and muddy the waters even more!

I started out with charlet Moser 'super 12's' which were basicly G12s. Then 'proper' G12's which are simply the best all round cramp you can get IMHO. Great fitting across a wide selection of boots and the crampomatic (full step in) versions will get you up anything and I can't see the reason for a route failure being crampons if you di fail on a route. I've lead V in them and it was me that can't go harder, not the cramps. I found the horizontal front points very stable on ice but they need to be kept sharp. I still have the G12 as my back ups but moved to the G14 for more technical stuff. I was doing more steeper mixed and ice and wanted to try mono point (which I now love) and have the versatility of reverting to 2 front points and a general mountaineering cramp. It worked in practice but I found the G14s clumpy and no real advantage on G12. They were heavier too.
I climb in G20's now and after 2 seasons climbing I've found them brilliant for what I want - light, mono/no faff. I'm not saying get some, they are specialised and not suited to gully / snow routes. Costs a lot to replace the front point too as the whole front half of the cramp needs to be renewed. I'm just pointing out that you need a good few seasons climbing to find 'your' type of routes then you can get a cramp to suit.
My mate has the Lynx and he's never had probs, had em for years and gets up the same routes as me. Only second hand experience of them but they seem as good as G12's.
My advice to you would be to try some boots in a shop and buy the very best you can afford that fit you perfectly. You can have solid gold cramps if you want but they wont help if you can't feel your feet due to ill fitting boots. Once you've got your boots try G12's or Lynx (or whatever) on the boots and go from there. Don't make the mistake of buying the boots with the best internet price - pay more for the same boots but from a shop with a bootroom - Needlesports or Outside (Hathersage) are both very good with experienced staff. The extra you are paying is for the service and knowledge of these guys and if you take their advice you will get value for money that pays you back everytime you pull your boots on.
 Sharp 29 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

Another vote for the G12's but also it's worth saying that the G12's horizontal points will hold better on cruddy snow ice than vertical points or monos like you'll find on the lynx or G14s
OP Finn Curry 29 Oct 2014
In reply to wilkie14c:

Great post, thanks. Like you say, I definitely think a very good boot upgrade is the most important thing, and then to go from there regarding crampons. I think I'll reach my technical limit way before my crampons do!
 Gazlynn 29 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry and Stuart:


Thanks for the reply Stuart

Op

I was going to ask what are the poons you already own are?

Give them a sharpen and use them for the snow plods. Then maybe if you want to treat yourself look to get a more intermediate type crampon, g14, lynx, dart / dartwin, g20, stingers et al for when you move up the grades.

cheers

Gaz
OP Finn Curry 29 Oct 2014
In reply to Gazlynn:

Hey Gaz,

Yes, I probably should've checked this before I posted! Anyway, at risk of sounding silly (because they are entirely competent for my aspirations and I shouldn't even bother upgrading), it's a pair of Grivel Air Tech, brought 7 years ago. I got a whole load of kit when I first started out and have slowly upgraded/replaced things as and when I've needed to. Finally, my boots are no longer waterproof so I'm definitely upgrading them and I thought the crampons were looking pretty worn out too so had though about replacing them to match with the grade of the new boot. Maybe I'm being naïve in thinking the boot and crampon grade have to match - if more experienced climbers are saying that a B3 boot with a C2 crampon is good for what I want to do then that's fine with me. I've never had any problem with the Air Tech, they've been great for everything from snow plods, low-grade Alpinism, right up to (seconding) on Grade V ice.

Cheers, Finn.
 TobyA 29 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

I've never used the Air Techs, but I know some people love them. I think their points are a wee bit shorter than on G12s or similar aren't they? (A bit like the pic I posted comparing my G12s with my CT Nuptses). That _might_ make them a bit less suitable for proper ice climbing, but I suspect the difference is marginal. Plus when I started climbing in the early 90s having normal crampons with stubby little points was consider de rigueur for Scottish mixed - the hard boys/girls all seem to favour super light monos now, but maybe that's what their sponsors give them! If Andy Nisbet sees this thread, he can probably give us all the definitive answer on what he reckons the best crampon for Scotland is in the light of having seen all these trends come and go and having climbed VIII with all of those different types of crampon!

It's always nice to have new gear, but I do think people expect that crampons or tools will make some massive difference to their climbing, when actually any half decent modern tool or crampon is more than most of us will ever need. If you have crampons that work fine now, consider the opportunity cost of replacing them: that 100 quid saved might get you two weekends winter climbing (at least if you are cheapskate who doesn't live in Cornwall or somewhere similarly unhelpful for getting to the hills!). Four more routes is likely to take your climbing further than some slightly fancier crampons. Nevertheless, if you're loaded ignore all that - I'd buy a pair of G12s for Scotland and a pair of Darts for continental water ice, then some ultra light ones for your ski touring trip to Lyngen in the spring (where you'll be staying here http://www.homeboyski.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/hottub.jpg )-How the other half live eh? Someone put the champers on ice please!
 TobyA 29 Oct 2014
In reply to Sharp:

> Another vote for the G12's but also it's worth saying that the G12's horizontal points will hold better on cruddy snow ice than vertical points or monos like you'll find on the lynx or G14s

This is one of those "obvious truths" of climbing that actually, these days, I'm completely unconvinced by. Of course there must be a point of tensile resistance to ice/snow where (for the sake of argument lets say) the two 1 cm wide points on G12s won't shear through while the two 0.5 cm wide vert points on some Lynxs will, but I think it's such and incredibly small difference (either both crampons won't stick or will in 99.99999% of cases) that it simply doesn't matter. This come from climbing with monos a lot where you notice that on softer snow ice it is really the front of your boot/front section of the crampon that is actually taking the weight, not the front point(s). They might bury themselves deep in the ice make your step more secure but your secondary points are as- if not- more important. Climbing with crampons with tiddly little secondary points brings this home to you - look at the wobby foot issue I tried to highlight in this review video youtube.com/watch?v=qEq7AxvF80I&

My feeling after doing lots of ice climbing on ice ranging from very cold and difficult to very warm and friendly and with lots of different crampons (set up in different configurations) is that foot placements in ice climbing are basically much closer to kicking the crap out of the ice until we make a foot step than most of would care to admit!
 Gazlynn 29 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

Weird, The Airtechs where my first crampon purchase 7 years ago and I still use them for easy mixed and winter walking.

A few years later I bought some b3 boots (Scarpa phantom guides) which had a lug on them so I thought oooh I'll get some poons with a wire toe bail on them to look a bit wee woo... and to feel confident in my gear
Here started my near obsession in getting a crampon to fit my boots properly. It got to the stage where I was swapping wire bails, front and back sections to and from Petzl, BD and Grivel, I even had 2 different wire toe bails from Grivel. The only ones that I thought fitted my boots perfectly was the petzl dartwins but they where too technical for my punter grades and I didn't want any doubts creeping in when i was walking out down a grade 1 route as I had read that they where awful on snow plods.

Which I suppose comes back to what Stuart the postie was saying if I'd of spent the time messing about with crampons on perfecting my footwork all of doubt and stuff wouldn't be there because I'll be honest here atm I wouldn't like to second grade V ice with my 7 year old airtechs on.

Do I think you would benefit from more technical crampons climbing grade V ice? I would say yes as it's already in your head that they are not suitable and as we all know winter climbing is a lot to do with your head.

I know people will say that I know a guy that went up .5 with slippers and a tooth pick, Harold Raeburn went up green gully with hobnail boots and a tweed vest but things have moved on and personally as a pure punter I will gladly take anything that makes my climbing more enjoyable. Or am I a salesmans dream???

Good luck with your choices

cheers

Gaz
 HeMa 29 Oct 2014
In reply to TobyA:
> My feeling after doing lots of ice climbing on ice ranging from very cold and difficult to very warm and friendly and with lots of different crampons (set up in different configurations) is that foot placements in ice climbing are basically much closer to kicking the crap out of the ice until we make a foot step than most of would care to admit!


I do claim othervise... sure, a lot of people are really kick'ing it in. But at least I mainly try to place my feet... just like when I'm on rock (with or without crampons). And that seems to be true with all really good ice climbers (me not being one), from what I've seen. Just like on rock, you find a weakness and place the point there, then add a bit of pressure or a mini kick.


That said, from the few routes I did manage to climb in Scotland... a normal 12 cramp should be good for most sub grade V routes.
 wilkie14c 29 Oct 2014
In reply to Gazlynn:

.5 was climbed in crocs not slippers but other than that, a good post mate

You are right, your head has to be happy with whats on your feet before it trusts them
 James Thacker 29 Oct 2014
In reply to Camm:

You are quite right, not that much in it. Not a very balanced crampon though with a lot of bulk and weight under the toe. I just didn't get on with them, for the same reasons I think the G14 is a poor crampon.

Modular is often seen as better, and I have tried many of these designs an now go for the simplest crampons I can. From experience I can also tell you that there are only three sets of crampons I haven't broken...

Petzl Vasak, Dart/Dartwin and EDELRID Shark (for general mountaineering).

I have managed to break G12, G14, DMM Terminator.
 TobyA 29 Oct 2014
In reply to HeMa:
Yep, I know what you mean, but on fresh ice made of loads of little icicles you have to kick through it to find some harder underneath, and you know when you get off a steep bit onto a ramp of snow ice often right up to your toe is going in and pushing. Definitely on hard delicate ice when using monos you do place and push rather than kick, and definitely while mixed climbing - but I'm sure I've got some film of you somewhere on steep ice just giving the ice a good kick to get a solid standing position!
Post edited at 11:32
 TobyA 29 Oct 2014
In reply to James Thacker:

> I have managed to break G12, G14, DMM Terminator.

Excellent! Which bit did you break on them? I had the early yellow plastic toe basket on my G12s snap in my hands at room temperature but not sure if that really counts. My terminator http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_3bhSo6922y4/SXihls4U5UI/AAAAAAAABRs/-mVPI3JmK7I/s... Much more recently I had the heel bail on my Beast Lites break, that I think might have been more of a design problem as it happened very quickly - http://lightfromthenorth.blogspot.co.uk/2014/05/edelrid-beast-lite-crampon-...

OP Finn Curry 29 Oct 2014
In reply to TobyA:

Haha, indeed Toby I'm somewhere below that paygrade for sure!!

I think you're right that the points on the Air Tech do look shorter (compared to the G12s) and the secondary points do look less forward facing too but I agree it is probably pretty marginal at the grades I climb. I managed not to make a total arse out of myself seconding Poachers Fall in old Scarpa Mantas and Air Techs so I should trust them ok! Agreed too that it is not so long ago that harder stuff that I can ever hope to climb was climbed in heavier, simpler gear than I own now. So all in all it sounds like money better spent on getting out there!
OP Finn Curry 29 Oct 2014
In reply to Gazlynn:

I guess you're right, I would probably benefit from more technical crampons for Grade V ice but, as I said in my reply to TobyA, I did mange to get up Poachers Fall and enjoy it (as a second) as well as feeling that I climbed well. The year before I seconded .5 and that definitely felt a bit more desperate but that was probably because it was my first time at that grade. In fact that week out was the first time I'd ever been on anything above II/III so I was very much in new territory anyway. But I generally feel a lot more relaxed 2nding and climb much better as a lot of the worry about the consequences of falling are removed - hardly a new concept I imagine! This thread has made me think that another year or two of seconding IV to V plus a few lead pitches and I could think about upgrading if I felt I could lead nearer that grade. Anyway, it'll be fun practicing

Cheers, Finn.
 aldo56 29 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:
My experience of Airtechs is that they're great as an all round mountaineering crampon; easy to walk in, good on mixed ground and okay on ice. The G12s felt more secure on steeper ice to me which is why i sold my Airtechs for a set.
Post edited at 12:56
 Kid Spatula 29 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

Just to throw a spanner in the works, I use Petzl Sarkens that are a nice hybrid between horizontal and vertical points. I like them a hell of a lot more than G12s as they feel better to climb in and are lighter.
 French Erick 29 Oct 2014
In reply to James Thacker:

Wow james. Good effort!
I've been climbing with the same pair of G14 since 2005 as a mono set-up. It's seen me up all the routes I've done. I've never failed a route because of my crampons.

I have to say that monos vertical points never make me feel happy on snow ice when topping out of steeper stuff... I just accept the compromise and kick hard when I come on that steepish snow ground. (I often feel happier in more technical terrain).

To OP:
Lots of good advice here from experienced folks. Best one IMO is getting good boots.
Within the limits you set up classic 12 points seem the best. If you're cheap like me and know (for a fact) that you will not limit yourself to grade ii to v: buy over technical and sturdy to see you through the progression.
The truth about winter climbing is that most kit will only allow you a breakthrough when YOU are ready for it. Only recently moved onto ergo type tools...they're amazing but until 3/4 years ago they would not have made a great difference for me. Since then, they would have but I was not ready to part with my cash.
If you like treating yourself and can afford it, buy 3 different pairs!
 French Erick 29 Oct 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:
Probably worthwhile seconding a few harder routes too with someone who is happy about that agreement. I got dragged up hardish routes early on. This made me realise that I was looking at climbs well within my reach as nearly holy and unattainable. Not that I climb hard or I'm a gifted climber either!

1 typo at least, let alone poor English!
Post edited at 13:18
 HeMa 29 Oct 2014
In reply to TobyA:

> but I'm sure I've got some film of you somewhere on steep ice just giving the ice a good kick to get a solid standing position!



I never said *I* was a good climber... rather that I try to place more than really kick in.


Sh*tty chandellier ice is a different beast however, but let's face it. Most of what people climb is not chandellier ice, rather more solid stuff. In fact, I've only come across it on a few hard lines and then the ice farm.
 KellyKettle 29 Oct 2014
In reply to French Erick:


> I have to say that monos vertical points never make me feel happy on snow ice when topping out of steeper stuff... I just accept the compromise and kick hard when I come on that steepish snow ground. (I often feel happier in more technical terrain).

Hello Erick! How are you?

I fully agree on that, on snow horizontal points feel like they have more purchase than vertical; always most noticeable when the snow condition is not quite so good as one might like...
OP Finn Curry 29 Oct 2014
In reply to French Erick:
Yep, that's what I've been doing for the last couple of years - spending a few days with a Guide, who I get on with and trust, to climb harder stuff, and then some more days with friends climbing at lower grades. Hopefully we push our limits a bit without having a 'mare! Seems to be working ok for me so far. Obviously it costs with a guide but lack of time and my location (London) mean I could never dream of getting near some of the stuff I've climbed without more experienced help when I'm up in Scotland. I consider it worth the money
Post edited at 14:09
 James Thacker 31 Oct 2014
In reply to TobyA:

Hi Toby, Terminators in pretty much the same place. But they had had A LOT of mixed use. G12's where do I start? Problems with the rental clips on G12 and G14. Bent heel clip, broken tie piece on G12. Got blown over and folded the two heel points flat against the base. This was later found to be a problem in the forging process.

Really dislike the "bubble" anti balling plate on the G14. This tends to get clogged with snow/slush in Scotland, if it freezes it then doesn't depress. Compromises the depth that the points go into neve.

Had missed those photos of the EDELRID Beast Lites, they have recently sent me a new improved heel section for these crampons which appears much more sturdy. So some slight in line tweaks.

The search for the perfect crampon continues....
 TobyA 01 Nov 2014
In reply to James Thacker:

Nice to hear that Edelrid toughened that heel design. Finger crossed for some snow and ice in Wales or the Lakes soonish, and I may well try the Beast Lites out here to see if they are tougher than I expect!
 rogerwebb 01 Nov 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

Erick (and others) give good advice. Stay away from the high end dedicated mono point ones though, two reasons,
a) your bank balance winces every time you walk across exposed rock and scree
b) if you have big feet they are sometimes lethal when walking on steep frozen ground as there are fewer downward pointing spikes

If the main aim is classic ice in Scotland I think (but others may disagree) that two points are better than one, flat points wear more slowly than vertical points and there is little discernible difference in performance.
In the grade band you set you won't notice a lot of difference on mixed but from round about tech 5/6 vertical monopoints are almost always better.

whichever of the main contenders you choose you should notice the difference

 Elsier 01 Nov 2014
In reply to Kid Spatula:

I agree, I also have a pair of Petzl Sarkens and they are great for climbing in the II to V range. I upgraded from my Grivel Airtech's and I've found they are a lot better, especially on ice. (but then I had worn down my Grivel Airtech's to the point that they no longer resembled crampons!)
 Robh101 12 Nov 2014
In reply to Finn Curry:

If your going for G12s, look at bd versions. Stainless steel so won't rush when scratch. Beware using cyborgs or stingers. The toe welt on scarp boots is thinner than others (sportiva etc) so if you go a bd step in design with scarpa boots you'll need to replae/bend the toe bail!

New Topic
This topic has been archived, and won't accept reply postings.
Loading Notifications...