UKH

Ive been climbing for 30 years now, and have something of a hole in my experiences: apart from a brief foray to Cham in my students days, I've never done any snow or ice stuff. As I'm getting older, it's becoming more attractive, mainly through looking at the brilliant photos posted on here by other UKCers.

Ideally, I want to get to a point where I can do some of the more classic mountain ridges both in the UK and Europe, and look at some of the independent trekking peaks in Nepal.

We don't get snow in Cornwall.

To get going, it strikes me that a decent course would be sensible - there not being much of a local network for winter climbing - and Scotland would be the place. Any suggestions / tales of experience? Best to go with somebody like Glenmore, or would a decent guide give more practical experience?

Many thanks

Martin

In reply to maisie:Hi, ive done both a course and one to one guiding and find ive learned much more from the latter.

In reply to blackcat:

But when you had the guide, did you already have some skills? I'm at an age where I'm happy to start at the bottom and work upwards, rather than try to bluff it out.....

Which guide did you use?

Martin

In reply to maisie: I went to the guides office in grindelwald a good few years ago now and hired a guide for seven days,expensive but so worth it.At the the time i was climbing winter grade twos,which i actually started off on because there so straight forward imo.The guide i had taught me so much,answered all my questions and near to the end of it we were like best pals.It gave me so much confidence,i cant reccomend it enough.

In reply to maisie: pyb Scottish coarse, done 2 in the past. Great instructors who also know the area v well, good standard of accommodation and food.

In reply to maisie:

Go to Chamonix in March and hire a british guide for a one to one week. They will take you up some classic gully routes and if you can ski then all the better because you get the whole ski mountaineering thing in as well.

In reply to maisie:

Can recommend Martin Moran courses, not cheap but having the faff of accommodation and food taken care of means you can concentrate on learning and I always found the guides more than willing to pass on as much solid info as you care to take on board.

In reply to Mountain Llama:

So how does that work - do you meet them up there, or congregate at Capel and all go from there?

In reply to Aigen and blackcat:

Sounds like for both of you, you had experience under your belt. As I get older and a bit less skint, the thought of hiring a personal guide in the Alps doesn't seem so out of reach - but I think I'd want to hit the ground running, so to speak. Would I be right in thinking that a centre would be more able to provide gear?

Martin

In reply to maisie: type pyb into Google and have a look

In reply to Mountain Llama:


Well, yes. Please don't think me ungrateful, but it was slightly more the personal experiences I was after.

Which courses and what kind of stuff did you cover, and did you feel it set you up for independence?

Many thanks

Martin

In reply to maisie: no worries. Back in the mid 00s I did a winter walking coarse with the other half. This gave me the bug and went back 2 more years for mountaineering and ice climbing. Not many folks went winter climbing in my club so the coarses allowed me to pick up the knowledge and techniques required very quickly. I then felt more confident with my club and able to lead instead of follow.

Not cheap but for me well worth it as it allowed me to progress quickly. I have also returned to the venues visited on the coarse and this helped in assessing conditions and route choice for myself. Plus it slightly reduced the pressure of having to go for it under your own steam.

HTH Davey

In reply to maisie:

The best guide around the Fort William area is Mike Pescod, Abacus Mountaineering.... highly recommended : )

In reply to Mountain Llama:


Yeah, that helped a lot. Thanks very much for the reply.

Martin

In reply to luckyjim:

Any relation to Bill?

Martin

In reply to maisie: Hi Martin,

First, as a long-standing climber I think hiring an instructor directly will make more sense than going on a fairly standard Pyb/Glenmore Lodge course.

Second, it might be better to head out in Winter by yourself for a day or two first, before going to the expense of paying for an instructor. Paying an MIC or Guide to be there when you are spending an hour or two getting used to walking up, down and across snow slopes in crampons doesn't strike me as the best use of money. Also, there are stacks of things like constructing buried axe belays, snow bollards or digging bucket seats that these days you can learn via utube videos and practice doing by yourself almost as well you can with an instructor present. That way when you head out with an instructor you can concentrate on more technical aspects of winter climbing rather than spending time on more basic things. It will also allow you to make sure that your boots and clothing are all up to the job rather than finding out your boots don't fit halfway through a very expensive course.

Third, buy a copy of Martin Moran's Scottish Winter Mountains - it is still by far the best reference book for anyone with an interest in UK Winter Climbing.

Anyway, best of luck whatever you do.

In reply to The Ex-Engineer:

One of the problems is that we have very little terrain near us which would be useful - plus it rarely if ever snows. Dartmoor (2-3 hours) holds a bit of snow, but the closest mountains are North Wales, which is a bit erratic for conditions. Cornwall's great, but not conducive to winter skills.

Given that, somewhere like Glenmore can lay on kit, which reduces the initial expense somewhat, and there's no doubt that I need the basic stuff too! Theory's all very well, but getting the practical bit in with someone who's being paid to put up with my incompetence might be a good idea.

I've got Moran's book and have been leafing through it.

Many thanks.

Martin

In reply to maisie:

I had a few days personal coaching in 2012 from Zac Poulton of Mountain Z. Very highly respected MIC and hugely experienced worldwide expedition leader. He works with another couple of really good MIC's as well.

Andy

In reply to maisie:

+1 on hiring a guide 1:1 if money isn't a problem. On a course you don't know who you are going to get paired off with. Its a crap-shoot and it can ruin your week. With a guide you can progress as fast/slow as you like pick up whatever skills you think you need, and then you're set.

Agee with recommendation of Mike P and Martin. Both excellent.

A.

In reply to maisie:
Now firstly I must stress that I am a winter punter and not a winter warrior by any stretch of the imagination but this is what I did.

I had basic hillwalking and navigation skills under my belt and maybe 3 or 4 winter munro hill walks.

I enrolled on the 2 day winter skills course at Glenmore lodge (purely because I couldn't afford the 5 day course) They quickly sorted us out in to experience levels because there were as others have mentioned there was quite a difference but Glenmore sorted that out without any problems.

The course did exactly what it said on the tin and was great and gave me lots of confidence and knowledge regarding avalanche awareness and general winter mountaineering safety. However it did not teach me how to climb Orion direct which at the time was fine with me.

I then looked on UKC in the partners and lifts section and went out with more experienced winter climbers and good friendships where formed.

I also looked for MIA trainees that were advertising on UKC for people to take onto the hills and again I learnt a great deal and again good friendships where formed.

I now still if my bank manager allows try and hire a guide for a couple of days a season 1 day for honing skills and the 2nd day for climbing something that would be pushing my grade and for this I use Scott Kirkhope ( www.kirkhopemountaineering.co.uk ) and cannot recommend highly enough.

As others on UKC have very kindly done with me over the years I would be happy to take you for a day's easy winter climbing and I could pass on the little knowledge and experience that I have.

cheers

Gaz

In reply to Gazlynn:

Thank you, Gaz, that's kind of you. I do have the great misfortune (!) To live in Cornwall, so even getting to foot of a decent hill requires 300 miles of driving (1300 mile round trip to the Ben).

Many thanks to all for recommendations - I'll be looking through them.

Martin

In reply to maisie:

Many moons ago I went on a Into Winter Climbing course with PYB.

We were paired off the first morning, supposedly for the week based on previous experience etc but after the first day on the hill I overheard the instructors talking about one of the other participants and describing him as 'an accident waiting to happen'. The second day the pairs were re-jigged and I was partnered with Mr Accident Waiting to Happen!

I wasn't sure if it was because I was as big a numptey as him or if they thought I was more capable of coping. Needless to say after a quite word with the guy in charge, explaining that his instructors needed to be a little more descrete and that I wasn't prepared to partner the guy after hearing what they had said, I was swopped to another partner )

In reply to maisie:


Well you can get a return flight to Edinburgh from Newquay for around £100 in Feb / March.

I'm sure I could collect you and take you up to the hills.

I've always wanted to do Commando Ridge so you'd have to reciprocate in the summer

cheers

Gaz

In reply to Gazlynn:

Ah, now *there's* an idea.....

I think we can do a bit better than just commando ridge, its general excellence notwithstanding. I'll PM you - although I've had some issues getting PMs through, so if you don't get anything by tomorrow evening, let me know.

Martin