Ski mountaineering gear (Dynafit TLT6 vs. La Sportiva Spantiks)

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 wout 18 Sep 2014

Hi ski mountaineers,

I’m a month off this winter and planning to stay in Chamonix (probably March 2015). This winter I want to bring it all to a higher level and combine all my passions. So winter high alpine (ice)climbing with a tour ski ascend and eventually descend.

Now my question: What gear do I need?

I think we have two options here (tell me if not!):
1.
Climb and ski with a winter mountaineering boot like the La Sportiva Spantik. Ski with it in combination with the Tyrolia 500 bindings (should fit, tell me if there are better combinations).

Benefits:
Cheapest (allround) option
real winter boot (warm)
best climbing ability

Disadvantages:
Skiing is horrible (never done it, what do think?)
heavy bindings

2.
Climb and ski with a ski boot like the Dynafit TLT5 or TLT6 or a different boot (tell me which one). They’re not made for iceclimbing tells Dynafit me but I’ve seen a lot of people using it. And http://coldthistle.blogspot.se/2011/06/part-2.html , http://coldthistle.blogspot.nl/2013/08/dynafit-tlt6-for-fall-of-2013.html writes a lot about it.

Benefits:
Skiing is fine
Climbing is lighter

Disadvantages:
Expensive (but I already have a lightweight ski and tech bindings [Plum Guide])
colder feet (one of the questions for you guys..)
less usable for technical climbing (how technical is possible?)
probably less comfortable on long north faces (stiffnes, comfort, etc.?)
don’t know if my Grivel G14 crampons will fit (do you?)

Offcourse light ski's but what would you advise? I'm 1.87 cm and 79 kg's. I've now got the blizzard expedition tour adventure: 167 / 102-73-89 / 24 [cm's] Dont know the weight,but it's light. Used it before as ski mountaineering race ski. Technical horrible and though but uphill ideal.

So what have you been climbing with? How did it climb and ski?
What is used by the most of the guys around Chamonix?
Is there one option for everything or should you have a larger ski/skiboot quiver?
Haven’t found any Dutch ski mountaineer who has experience with either options or just the Dynafit TLT 5 or 6, that’s why I’m asking it here.

If I forgot something, please tell me.
Thank you very much!!
Post edited at 21:30
 AdrianC 18 Sep 2014
In reply to walt:

No question in my mind - climbing in ski touring boots is much better than skiing in climbing boots and I've always found touring boots are plenty warm enough. The biggest problem with climbing in ski boots is the loss of ankle movement which is fine for front-pointing but on steep snow or mixed it can be a difficult.

Skis - 167 and 73 underfoot is kinda short and skinny for your height & weight. I'd keep the bindings and fit them to a ski between 95 & 105 mm underfoot and about 180 cm long. The Dynastar Cham 97HM is a good option and I hear good things about the Rossignol Soul 7.

Hope that helps!
 alastairbegley 18 Sep 2014
In reply to AdrianC:

I am also having this debate before I head to cham next year for some climbing and touring, probably going to invest in some touring boots but hire skis and bindings.

Am looking at TLT6s/La Sportiva Spectre/Scarpa Maestrales
 James Thacker 18 Sep 2014
In reply to walt: I think its better to climb in ski boots, the vast majority of the time unless its really hard. I have TLT6's and to be honest they probably climb as well as Spantiks. Very light. The one major drawback is that they aren't very warm, and I would be really cautious about climbing in properly cold weather.

 Morgan Woods 18 Sep 2014
In reply to walt:

1 - no

2 - yes

:p
 HeMa 19 Sep 2014
In reply to walt:

2, without a doubt...


Eg. my friend had a ball with them on stuff like "Roadside" in Lyngen...
http://ianparnellphotography.blogspot.fi/2013/02/northern-norway-part-2.htm...

Oddly enough, that icefall has had ascents since the mid 80s... and people still claim to discover it do FAs there...
http://www.rollomixed.com/2013/12/kaamosrandot.html
 JuneBob 19 Sep 2014
In reply to walt:

Choosing between TLT6s/La Sportiva Spectre/Scarpa Maestrales/etc should primarily be based on fit!
Go to a good boot fitter, do a shell only fit to make sure your feet aren't touching the sides.
 Aigen 19 Sep 2014
In reply to wout:

If you are going to cham its best to have options regarding gear. A pair of normal ski boots and slightly wider skis for piste/Grand Monte/Val Blance days. A pair of La Sportiva Spectre for touring and routes that involve a tour and doing a route. A pair of Baturas for ice. A pair of spantik for multiday alpine routes. You could also just get a pair of baturas and pick up a second hand pair of asolo supersofts if you think you will need a double boot.
 LucaC 19 Sep 2014
In reply to wout:

As other people have already said, option 2 is best by far. I've climbed a fair bit of chamonix gullys and ice in tlt5s and they definitely weren't the limiting factor in my climbing. G14s fit perfectly but you might need the longer bar if you have large feet.

I think touring boots could actually be more comfortable for prolonged front pointing than my phantom guides because they are totally without flex, meaning my feet feel more relaxed in them. Basically, I would be happy climbing anything in my tlts as long as it didn't involve any walking!

For skis I have some dynafit touring skis with tech bindings, basically the lightest setup which you can actually ski easily (important for bad skiers like me).
 Morgan Woods 19 Sep 2014
In reply to wout:

I think something like this would be a good all round ski for a place like Chamonix. Match it with some dynafit boots and binders and you would have a great setup for the ups and down:

http://www.sportiva.com/products/ski/skis/hi5#tech-specs

I think Cold Thistle may have a review as well.

Currently I have 90mm underfoot for long tours and 123mm for lift serviced off-piste so something about 100mm would be a good compromise if I had to carry on my back but still wanted to enjoy the descent.
 Dave 19 Sep 2014
In reply to wout:

As others have said, 2 is the way to go. I have TLT6's. I have not found them to be cold though have only used them in relatively Spring-like conditions. They have great front/back flexibility without the tongue and the front binding 'lip' is missing so they feel slightly less clumsy than regular ski mo boots. They are also narrow and light which helps. The inner that came with mine (thicker CR as opposed to marginally lighter CL) is not very good IMO and I junked it and replaced it with a 12 year old Scarpa heat-mouldable liner, that is both lighter and has harder foam. Why do ski boot manufacturers put soft foam in inner boots ? After half a day's skiing your foot ends up swimming around in a boot with a soft liner..
 Siderunner 19 Sep 2014
What others have said.

The skiing conditions are often difficult (e.g. Breakable crust) and variable, plus you'll sometimes end up skiing in moderately exposed places where a bad fall could be serious (crevasses or above cliffs). I'd say my scarpa thermo moulded liners are at least as warm as my Nepal Extremes, so don't worry on that score.

There's a big difference between skiing in and depot the skis whilst climbing than hauling the skis up routes. In the former case something moderately fat and a good bit longer will give you a lot more fun in descent; don't go too fat else it's a nightmare traversing on steep ice, perhaps high 80's underfoot? I got super light skis first but to be honest I use my B2s 80% of the time (though I wish I went dynafit bindings not fritschi).
 Morgan Woods 19 Sep 2014
In reply to Siderunner:

really? my bent chetlers at 123mm hold quite a good edge on steep icy chutes and they turn easy edge to edge. I think some fat skis can be chattery and hard to edge but others not so. I am even thinking of putting my dynafits on to them for an all round piste/off piste set up.
 John Cooke 19 Sep 2014
In reply to wout:

Another +1 for option 2

I ski and climb in a pair of La Sportiva Spectre's. They needed a bit of shell modifying but fit fantastic, are super light and a great boot for both skiing and climbing. I've quite a narrow foot and low arch.

Another thing to consider is crampon fit. I use the Petzl Lynx which fits the Sportivas well. I believe you get a good fit on TLT's with Grivels.

Ski set up is: Scott Crusair 179cm 90mm underfoot with Plum Guide bindings and BD leashes. Ski's are great, nice and light and great for a variety of conditions - powder, crud, hard pack, ice.

I used this set up in Cham earlier this year skiing variable conditions and climbing up to M5+ and found it to be spot on.

I'd definitely go for a boot that you can climb/ski in and in terms of which - whatever fits best. TLT5 if you can get hold of a pair, TLT6 or Sportiva Spectre.
OP wout 20 Sep 2014
Thanks all!

It's clear, I'll get myself new skiboots.
But sadly there is no bootfitter in Holland which has the TLT5/6/La sportiva Spectre...
I'll buy them online (maybe 2/3 pair) and send the wrong ones back.
What size do you have and what size do you have in normal shoes?

Besides the Blizzards I've got 2 ski's for freeriding and tourskiing. Line Opus and K2 Coombacks, but both not ideal for climbing days. Great for deeper days. I think an eventually new ski of +- 175 cm and 90 underfoot might be an option but I worry about the weight. Less weight = less tired = better skiing..
What's common used in Chamonix especially for winterclimbing?

I'm a pretty good and experienced skier cause I was a ski bum. (but crust is horrible).




OP wout 23 Sep 2014
anyone?

 LucaC 23 Sep 2014
In reply to wout:

Mondo 27 in TLT5s, and 41/41.5 in shoe size depending on the boot.
 Ben Briggs 23 Sep 2014
In reply to wout:

What size are you? I have some tlt5's in good condition you could buy off me when you get to Chamonix if they fit.
OP wout 24 Sep 2014
In reply to wout:

Would be nice. Normal boots size 45.

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