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Anyone care to help? I'm racing royal parks on 12 oct
I've run a few halfs and pb is 1'44'08
I'm probably fitter than I've been right now and training is 2 or 3 runs a week. I always get a tempo and long run in.
Currently up to long run at 8mm x 11 miles (quite hilly, 600 ft of ascent) and tempo at 7'20 mm x7.5 miles (flat)
I was thinking start at 7'40 for first 6 miles and try to drop to 7'35 thereafter but perhaps I shld set out quicker? It is a flat course....
Tempo I get to 9 and long run to 13 before a small taper wk
Cheers for any thoughts!
I've run a few halfs and pb is 1'44'08
I'm probably fitter than I've been right now and training is 2 or 3 runs a week. I always get a tempo and long run in.
Currently up to long run at 8mm x 11 miles (quite hilly, 600 ft of ascent) and tempo at 7'20 mm x7.5 miles (flat)
I was thinking start at 7'40 for first 6 miles and try to drop to 7'35 thereafter but perhaps I shld set out quicker? It is a flat course....
Tempo I get to 9 and long run to 13 before a small taper wk
Cheers for any thoughts!
In reply to Wilbur:
If you can run 7:20 for 7.5 miles, you can probably run a half at pretty close to that in race conditions, you will at least get to 10 miles at that pace, then just tough it out.
I run half marathons at 6:20-6:30 min/mile pace, rarely do training runs much faster than 6:50 pace, unless I am doing specific interval type speed work.
If you can run 7:20 for 7.5 miles, you can probably run a half at pretty close to that in race conditions, you will at least get to 10 miles at that pace, then just tough it out.
I run half marathons at 6:20-6:30 min/mile pace, rarely do training runs much faster than 6:50 pace, unless I am doing specific interval type speed work.
In reply to The New NickB:
Kind of what I wanted to hear! Just don't want to blow up, might go more like 7'30 from mile 2...
Cheers
Kind of what I wanted to hear! Just don't want to blow up, might go more like 7'30 from mile 2...
Cheers
In reply to Wilbur:
Don't worry about blowing up.. a day as a lion and all that…
You're in good shape, trust it and go with it and see what happens.
My pb was set with no watch, at 3 miles I asked the guy our pace and he said 5:38.. I held on and finished that pace.. It was a 90 second pb.. I'd have never ran that with a watch..
Don't worry about blowing up.. a day as a lion and all that…
You're in good shape, trust it and go with it and see what happens.
My pb was set with no watch, at 3 miles I asked the guy our pace and he said 5:38.. I held on and finished that pace.. It was a 90 second pb.. I'd have never ran that with a watch..
In reply to The New NickB:
Agree.. My half pace is sub 5:40 I'd never run that.. even as a tempo it murders me.. but I do highish miles so thats a factor but still anything greater than 2k I don't do sub 5:40 really..
I actually rarely do much faster than 6:50 myself.. a few 6:30's.. I finish a few runs at 6-6:20 then LT sessions or VO2 max at 5:00-5:40 but I spend less than 10% of my week below 6:00..
> I run half marathons at 6:20-6:30 min/mile pace, rarely do training runs much faster than 6:50 pace, unless I am doing specific interval type speed work.
Agree.. My half pace is sub 5:40 I'd never run that.. even as a tempo it murders me.. but I do highish miles so thats a factor but still anything greater than 2k I don't do sub 5:40 really..
I actually rarely do much faster than 6:50 myself.. a few 6:30's.. I finish a few runs at 6-6:20 then LT sessions or VO2 max at 5:00-5:40 but I spend less than 10% of my week below 6:00..
In reply to Wilbur:
I've been watching this thread with interest (and hoping for some additional replies) as I am facing the same conundrum deciding how to run the Cardiff half in 3 weeks time and our paces are more or less identical.
I was kind of hoping that someone would post a slightly more conservative strategy as what Ian and Nick are suggesting seems to me to be quite high risk / high reward, and very likely to be an utter painfest (that may or may not be sustainable).
Based on a Xmas 10km time (43:30) McMillan thinks I should be doing a half in 1:37 (7:24 m/m). Now, while I think I am much more running fit than when I did that 10km, 7:24 for 13 miles sounds sounds awfully quick to me. In addition, I really, really want to get a sub 1:40 time (1:39:59 equates to 7:38 pace) as this would give me a massive PB anyway as I have not done a half seriously before(current PB = 1:53, run in training, off-road, with 400m/1200ft of ascent).
So, who wants to convince me that, while being a lion is all well and good, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush? Or is the consensus that I should risk all, leave the watch at home and hope i dont have to say 'well I ran the first 10 miles at 1:37 pace!'.
I've been watching this thread with interest (and hoping for some additional replies) as I am facing the same conundrum deciding how to run the Cardiff half in 3 weeks time and our paces are more or less identical.
I was kind of hoping that someone would post a slightly more conservative strategy as what Ian and Nick are suggesting seems to me to be quite high risk / high reward, and very likely to be an utter painfest (that may or may not be sustainable).
Based on a Xmas 10km time (43:30) McMillan thinks I should be doing a half in 1:37 (7:24 m/m). Now, while I think I am much more running fit than when I did that 10km, 7:24 for 13 miles sounds sounds awfully quick to me. In addition, I really, really want to get a sub 1:40 time (1:39:59 equates to 7:38 pace) as this would give me a massive PB anyway as I have not done a half seriously before(current PB = 1:53, run in training, off-road, with 400m/1200ft of ascent).
So, who wants to convince me that, while being a lion is all well and good, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush? Or is the consensus that I should risk all, leave the watch at home and hope i dont have to say 'well I ran the first 10 miles at 1:37 pace!'.
In reply to fiendoidel:
Give or take 43:30 for 10k is 7 m/m pace, 24 seconds a mile is quite a bit slower. In my first year of running, I broke 40 minutes for 10k and 1:30 for half marathon 2 weeks apart, my half marathon pace was 18 seconds a mile slower.
Give or take 43:30 for 10k is 7 m/m pace, 24 seconds a mile is quite a bit slower. In my first year of running, I broke 40 minutes for 10k and 1:30 for half marathon 2 weeks apart, my half marathon pace was 18 seconds a mile slower.
In reply to The New NickB:
Ahh, I see. I should just run even faster than the pace I was already concerned about.
Death or Glory?
Ahh, I see. I should just run even faster than the pace I was already concerned about.
Death or Glory?
In reply to fiendoidel:
No it seems a reasonable pace, just illustrating that the difference between 10k and half marathon. I'm a bit faster so the difference in pace between the two will be less in absolute terms, although probably similar as a percentage.
> Ahh, I see. I should just run even faster than the pace I was already concerned about.
> Death or Glory?
No it seems a reasonable pace, just illustrating that the difference between 10k and half marathon. I'm a bit faster so the difference in pace between the two will be less in absolute terms, although probably similar as a percentage.
In reply to Wilbur: you could always use 16 seks a mile as a guide. As so many people claim they Are built for endurance over speed the difference could be even less - my difference in pb's is only 8 secs a mile between 10k and a half
In reply to fiendoidel:
I'd never advise lion over lamb mentally for a marathon.. Nor someone who isn't running that pace for 7-8 miles... He'll get to 10 probably and them mentally it's just hurt for the last 5k... Most will hold on ok.. When things go wrong in a marathon at a similar point in a race it can be a good 45-1hr to go and time just flys away...
But don't be too scared of the odd blow up.. It happens occasionally when you set yourself challenging goals.. A realistic goal for a competitive runner should be attainable. Just..
I often think of gold, silver, bronze objectives... To achieve gold and have to have a perfect race and no set backs.. It's about the limit I could possibly run.. But then come race day I'm feeling off, have a head wind or something so I'll drop my goal with the minimum acceptable being bronze..
I
I'd never advise lion over lamb mentally for a marathon.. Nor someone who isn't running that pace for 7-8 miles... He'll get to 10 probably and them mentally it's just hurt for the last 5k... Most will hold on ok.. When things go wrong in a marathon at a similar point in a race it can be a good 45-1hr to go and time just flys away...
But don't be too scared of the odd blow up.. It happens occasionally when you set yourself challenging goals.. A realistic goal for a competitive runner should be attainable. Just..
I often think of gold, silver, bronze objectives... To achieve gold and have to have a perfect race and no set backs.. It's about the limit I could possibly run.. But then come race day I'm feeling off, have a head wind or something so I'll drop my goal with the minimum acceptable being bronze..
I
In reply to IainRUK:
You could aim for aggressive lamb transitioning to lion from about mile 6 on. Not so much saving yourself, just making sure you're not going too overdrawn. The credit charges add up, so save them for later.
On a half I'm mentally going '3 done, warmed up single, figures left - 5 done, decent run done - 6.5, half way - 8, only 5 to go - double figures, hang on to end'
You could aim for aggressive lamb transitioning to lion from about mile 6 on. Not so much saving yourself, just making sure you're not going too overdrawn. The credit charges add up, so save them for later.
On a half I'm mentally going '3 done, warmed up single, figures left - 5 done, decent run done - 6.5, half way - 8, only 5 to go - double figures, hang on to end'
In reply to Wilbur:
15 secs/mile difference for me for my best 10k ( 39m 13s 6:19 m/m ) and Half ( 1:26:00 6:34 m/m ) in the last year, so pretty similar to Nick.
It does depend if conditions are similar though - in terms of hilliness of course, your current fitness level, wind strength, etc
15 secs/mile difference for me for my best 10k ( 39m 13s 6:19 m/m ) and Half ( 1:26:00 6:34 m/m ) in the last year, so pretty similar to Nick.
It does depend if conditions are similar though - in terms of hilliness of course, your current fitness level, wind strength, etc
More useful food for thought. My 10k pb is just under 45 mins (7'13 mm) and I'm probably on that sort of form so +10 or 15 looks right on paper. Start at 7'35 for first 6 I reckon and drop down to 7'30 after that! Argh, decisions! On the day of course ill probably lose the plot and set off way too fast
In reply to Wilbur:
I always ran it to be pretty well done at 10 and then hope i could get it together for the last 5k. You do run a chance of the last 5k being pretty hellish but getting a good time will hurt too.
I always ran it to be pretty well done at 10 and then hope i could get it together for the last 5k. You do run a chance of the last 5k being pretty hellish but getting a good time will hurt too.
In reply to wbo:
Ok,having carefully digested all the advice, having dwelt on it all instead of sleeping last night, and also having gone back to McMillan with my most recent race time (Parkrun - 20:30 = 6:36m/m, which predicts a 1:35 HM @ 7:15 m/m) I think I have been too cautious in only aiming for 1:39:59.
I guess part of the problem is that of the 4 HM races I have done, 3 have ended very badly (including a very memorable one at the end of a half ironman that lasted an agonising 2.5 hours due to very stupid bike pacing). Those not-so-happy memories I think make me want to go well within myself and just get a half respectable result in the bank, rather than risk making it 4 of 5 races that have ended in implosion. Also, I haven't done any long tempo/threshold sessions in training (i.e. longer than about 40mins) - so I don't know what I am looking like at 7/8 miles at 'race' pace - perhaps my long run this weekend will be exchanged for an 8 mile tempo effort.
So, current thinking is be the aggressive lamb suggested by SteveRi: - go out at 1:39:59 pace for 5miles (7:38m/m), drop it to McMillan 10km predicted pace (7:24m/m) for the next 5miles, and then summon the lion in order to drop it further to McMillan 5km predicted pace (7:15m/m) for the last 5km. What could go wrong.
To the OP - my half is the weekend before yours, so I'll let you know how the above works out for me.....
Ok,having carefully digested all the advice, having dwelt on it all instead of sleeping last night, and also having gone back to McMillan with my most recent race time (Parkrun - 20:30 = 6:36m/m, which predicts a 1:35 HM @ 7:15 m/m) I think I have been too cautious in only aiming for 1:39:59.
I guess part of the problem is that of the 4 HM races I have done, 3 have ended very badly (including a very memorable one at the end of a half ironman that lasted an agonising 2.5 hours due to very stupid bike pacing). Those not-so-happy memories I think make me want to go well within myself and just get a half respectable result in the bank, rather than risk making it 4 of 5 races that have ended in implosion. Also, I haven't done any long tempo/threshold sessions in training (i.e. longer than about 40mins) - so I don't know what I am looking like at 7/8 miles at 'race' pace - perhaps my long run this weekend will be exchanged for an 8 mile tempo effort.
So, current thinking is be the aggressive lamb suggested by SteveRi: - go out at 1:39:59 pace for 5miles (7:38m/m), drop it to McMillan 10km predicted pace (7:24m/m) for the next 5miles, and then summon the lion in order to drop it further to McMillan 5km predicted pace (7:15m/m) for the last 5km. What could go wrong.
To the OP - my half is the weekend before yours, so I'll let you know how the above works out for me.....
In reply to fiendoidel: That'll give you sub 1:38 which is comfortably inside your 1:40 target. If you can do that kind of negative split it will also feel great because you'll be overtaking people in the second half and especially towards the end which is much more motivating than being the overtaken.
Good luck, it'll be interesting to see how you get on.
Good luck, it'll be interesting to see how you get on.
In reply to fiendoidel:
Good luck, if you can do 6:36 for 3.1, 7:30 for 13 should feel daily comfortable..
Good luck, if you can do 6:36 for 3.1, 7:30 for 13 should feel daily comfortable..
In reply to IainRUK:
Hmmm. not sure I would describe it as daily comfortable, as its definitely a noticable notch up from than my usual 'easy' run pace of 8m/m, but your right, I am not exactly uncomfortable at 7:30 (that might change after 11 miles tho). Lets hope it all works out - I would be over the moon with 1:38
Going to try 6km (@7:38), 6km (@7:24), 4km (@7:15) on the weekend to see how it all feels over 10 miles.
Thanks all.
Hmmm. not sure I would describe it as daily comfortable, as its definitely a noticable notch up from than my usual 'easy' run pace of 8m/m, but your right, I am not exactly uncomfortable at 7:30 (that might change after 11 miles tho). Lets hope it all works out - I would be over the moon with 1:38
Going to try 6km (@7:38), 6km (@7:24), 4km (@7:15) on the weekend to see how it all feels over 10 miles.
Thanks all.
In reply to fiendoidel:
Well my half pace is around 5:35-5:45.. running 13 at 6:15 wouldn't be comfortable on a run, but running that in a race would be…
Race situation changes your effort levels massively. In a recent marathon I wanted to run a safe 6:25 pace and was forcing myself to slow down.. it just felt so easy.. in a non-race situation I'd find 6:25 pace for 10 miles hard work.
Well my half pace is around 5:35-5:45.. running 13 at 6:15 wouldn't be comfortable on a run, but running that in a race would be…
Race situation changes your effort levels massively. In a recent marathon I wanted to run a safe 6:25 pace and was forcing myself to slow down.. it just felt so easy.. in a non-race situation I'd find 6:25 pace for 10 miles hard work.
In reply to Wilbur:
I have only done 2 halfs - Reading, twice.
The first, I only joined because someone at work suggested it. First year after university and my bike had been nicked. I ran 3 miles in and 3 miles home from work; 5 days a week. At the race I had never run further than 3 miles, started at the back, with no expectations. I ran 1:35:40 and should have gone perhaps 10' faster (I was over-cautious... and went and played squash in the afternoon).
The second I trained more conventionally including runs up to 14 miles. I ran 1:52:10.
Almost exactly 1 minute slower/year later...
I have only done 2 halfs - Reading, twice.
The first, I only joined because someone at work suggested it. First year after university and my bike had been nicked. I ran 3 miles in and 3 miles home from work; 5 days a week. At the race I had never run further than 3 miles, started at the back, with no expectations. I ran 1:35:40 and should have gone perhaps 10' faster (I was over-cautious... and went and played squash in the afternoon).
The second I trained more conventionally including runs up to 14 miles. I ran 1:52:10.
Almost exactly 1 minute slower/year later...
In reply to JJL:
There was obviously either something very wrong with either you on the day, or with you 'conventional' training.
There was obviously either something very wrong with either you on the day, or with you 'conventional' training.
In reply to fiendoidel:
For anyone desperate to know, tester last night was very successful - managed 20km @ 7:35m/m. That included a 10 min warm up, so it was actually more like 18km @ 7:30m/m. Consequently, I think a sub 1:40 time is pretty much in the bag (unless something goes wrong) and I can relax a bit and focus on a slightly more challenging target.
I did try to up the pace several times in last night's run, but my legs weren't really having it. So I am no longer sure of my negative splitting stragegy - I did sort of manage an increase in speed for the last 5 km, which were done close to 7:20m/m pace, but that required me to put quite a lot of effort in - mainly convincing myself that I wanted to bother (it was about 22:00 hours on a Sunday night by this point).
I think I will probably go for 7:20 to 7:25 pace on the day, and then see if I can pull anything out in the last 5 km.
Thanks all for the advice - I'll let you know how it all goes.
For anyone desperate to know, tester last night was very successful - managed 20km @ 7:35m/m. That included a 10 min warm up, so it was actually more like 18km @ 7:30m/m. Consequently, I think a sub 1:40 time is pretty much in the bag (unless something goes wrong) and I can relax a bit and focus on a slightly more challenging target.
I did try to up the pace several times in last night's run, but my legs weren't really having it. So I am no longer sure of my negative splitting stragegy - I did sort of manage an increase in speed for the last 5 km, which were done close to 7:20m/m pace, but that required me to put quite a lot of effort in - mainly convincing myself that I wanted to bother (it was about 22:00 hours on a Sunday night by this point).
I think I will probably go for 7:20 to 7:25 pace on the day, and then see if I can pull anything out in the last 5 km.
Thanks all for the advice - I'll let you know how it all goes.
In reply to fiendoidel:
Nice one. Even pace can feel like negative splits in terms of effort. Just chopping off 10s/mile can feel uphill
Nice one. Even pace can feel like negative splits in terms of effort. Just chopping off 10s/mile can feel uphill
In reply to SteveRi:
I love it when a plan comes together....
Managed 1:36:40 (average pace = 7:20 min/mile) at the Cardiff Half on Sunday, using the 'aggressive-lamb-transitioning-to-lion approach'.
First 10 miles were done at 7:23 min/miles pace. Very comfortable throughout (perhaps too comfortable), with almost no variation in pace, so I didn't have any doubts about my pacing (which I tend find quite draining)
Last 3.1 miles were cranked up to 7:06 min/miles pace.
I reckon I could have squeezed a bit more out in the first 16km, but I'm very happy to have got (for me) a half respectable time in the bank. Now I'd be happy to risk things a little bit and to accept an implosion on the next one where sub-1:35 will be the target (I'll have that, I'm sure).
Thanks everyone for the advice and best of luck to Wilbur (OP) this weekend - I can recommend lamb to lion.
I love it when a plan comes together....
Managed 1:36:40 (average pace = 7:20 min/mile) at the Cardiff Half on Sunday, using the 'aggressive-lamb-transitioning-to-lion approach'.
First 10 miles were done at 7:23 min/miles pace. Very comfortable throughout (perhaps too comfortable), with almost no variation in pace, so I didn't have any doubts about my pacing (which I tend find quite draining)
Last 3.1 miles were cranked up to 7:06 min/miles pace.
I reckon I could have squeezed a bit more out in the first 16km, but I'm very happy to have got (for me) a half respectable time in the bank. Now I'd be happy to risk things a little bit and to accept an implosion on the next one where sub-1:35 will be the target (I'll have that, I'm sure).
Thanks everyone for the advice and best of luck to Wilbur (OP) this weekend - I can recommend lamb to lion.
Post edited at 14:13
In reply to fiendoidel:
well done, if you can run your last 3 at 7:06.. that's your target pace..
I'd look at 7:10 at least next time..
It never stops..
1:35 sees 1:30 sees 1:25 sees sub 1:20 which sees sub 6 minute miling.. and it continues..
well done, if you can run your last 3 at 7:06.. that's your target pace..
I'd look at 7:10 at least next time..
It never stops..
1:35 sees 1:30 sees 1:25 sees sub 1:20 which sees sub 6 minute miling.. and it continues..
In reply to fiendoidel:
Brilliant! Yep, more to come if you can step it up that much right at the end. That's your banker then, so you can put the lion on a longer leash next time
Brilliant! Yep, more to come if you can step it up that much right at the end. That's your banker then, so you can put the lion on a longer leash next time
In reply to SteveRi:
Thanks both - feeling great today - full of whatever it is that racing fills one with.
I should have added that the last 2 miles of Cardiff are ever so slightly downhill, accounting for some of the pace increase, but I like the sound of 7:06 pace.... should net me 1:33.... can't wait...
Thanks both - feeling great today - full of whatever it is that racing fills one with.
I should have added that the last 2 miles of Cardiff are ever so slightly downhill, accounting for some of the pace increase, but I like the sound of 7:06 pace.... should net me 1:33.... can't wait...
Post edited at 15:33
In reply to fiendoidel:
Wow! Excellent work, well done that man!
Will let you know how I get on this weekend, won't be anywhere near that quick but will see what I can do.. Like the idea of pushing last 3 miles if anything left!
Wow! Excellent work, well done that man!
Will let you know how I get on this weekend, won't be anywhere near that quick but will see what I can do.. Like the idea of pushing last 3 miles if anything left!
In reply to Wilbur:
Thanks Wilbur (and a second thanks for starting the thread in the first place)
Good luck on the weekend. I look forward to hearing which strategy you go for and how it goes.
Thanks Wilbur (and a second thanks for starting the thread in the first place)
Good luck on the weekend. I look forward to hearing which strategy you go for and how it goes.
In reply to fiendoidel:
Thanks, training has been somewhat undermined by a virus so not going as well as I was 3 wks ago but still hopeful for a pb at least!
Thanks, training has been somewhat undermined by a virus so not going as well as I was 3 wks ago but still hopeful for a pb at least!
In reply to Wilbur:
Hi Wilbur, not being negative here but at 1.44 you're not setting the world alight. But then again you're no particular slouch.
Set off a bit quicker, you'll settle into a pace by four miles, keep it going for as long as you can, by about ten you'll begin to tire. Hang on in there for the last three. Don't look at your watch. You'll have an instinct if you're going well. If it's not to be, beast the next one. Don't get too anal about timings.
Hi Wilbur, not being negative here but at 1.44 you're not setting the world alight. But then again you're no particular slouch.
Set off a bit quicker, you'll settle into a pace by four miles, keep it going for as long as you can, by about ten you'll begin to tire. Hang on in there for the last three. Don't look at your watch. You'll have an instinct if you're going well. If it's not to be, beast the next one. Don't get too anal about timings.
In reply to birdie num num:
thanks - good input. so i reckon maybe i set off at 7'40 for mile 1 and then just drop to 7'30 from mile 2 on and see if i can hang on?! Most of my tempo runs to 7.5 miles have been below 7'30 pace (between 7'20 - 7'28 pace - 7'28 more recently following illness frustratingly)..
Apologies if this is too much detail but for ref, and in case it alters your thinking, my last few wks of illness interrupted training have been as follows;
THIS WEEK:
Mon - 3 miles easy and 3 x 0.5m intervals at 6'10 - 6'40 pace.
NB: rest now until race which is this coming sunday 12 Oct
LAST WEEK:
Thur - 8 mile long run at 7'58 pace on thursday (nearly 500 ft ascent).
Tues - 7 mile tempo at 7'28 pace.
WEEK BEFORE:
Thur - 12.5 mile long run at 8'07 pace (600ft of ascent).
Tues - 7 mile tempo at 7'28 pace.
thanks - good input. so i reckon maybe i set off at 7'40 for mile 1 and then just drop to 7'30 from mile 2 on and see if i can hang on?! Most of my tempo runs to 7.5 miles have been below 7'30 pace (between 7'20 - 7'28 pace - 7'28 more recently following illness frustratingly)..
Apologies if this is too much detail but for ref, and in case it alters your thinking, my last few wks of illness interrupted training have been as follows;
THIS WEEK:
Mon - 3 miles easy and 3 x 0.5m intervals at 6'10 - 6'40 pace.
NB: rest now until race which is this coming sunday 12 Oct
LAST WEEK:
Thur - 8 mile long run at 7'58 pace on thursday (nearly 500 ft ascent).
Tues - 7 mile tempo at 7'28 pace.
WEEK BEFORE:
Thur - 12.5 mile long run at 8'07 pace (600ft of ascent).
Tues - 7 mile tempo at 7'28 pace.
In reply to Wilbur:
I'd run at least twice this week.. 3 times if possible, just 3-5 milers, even a rep sess with long rests.
My taper is 70% 40% reduction in load over the final 2 weeks, running most days but more quick work.. RArely slower than a 7 min mile.. So 65 miles last week 35-40 miles this week as I'm racing Sunday..
You won't get any fitter it just helps you keep sharp.
I'd run at least twice this week.. 3 times if possible, just 3-5 milers, even a rep sess with long rests.
My taper is 70% 40% reduction in load over the final 2 weeks, running most days but more quick work.. RArely slower than a 7 min mile.. So 65 miles last week 35-40 miles this week as I'm racing Sunday..
You won't get any fitter it just helps you keep sharp.
In reply to IainRUK:
really, even though i only run twice a week average normally?
So 22m wk before last, 16m (73% ish of that) last wk and 4m (25% of last wk) this wk...
what do you reckon re pace?
thanks v much!
really, even though i only run twice a week average normally?
So 22m wk before last, 16m (73% ish of that) last wk and 4m (25% of last wk) this wk...
what do you reckon re pace?
thanks v much!
In reply to Wilbur:
yeah because its still lower than you ran.. they are two quite big days a week..
I'd set off at 7:30 and see how you feel.. if you can do 7 at 7:28 in training then I think sub 7:30 is very much on.. maybe set off 7:35 but I suspect sub 7:30 is very possible.
I could not do 8 miles at my half pace.. it would kill me..
yeah because its still lower than you ran.. they are two quite big days a week..
I'd set off at 7:30 and see how you feel.. if you can do 7 at 7:28 in training then I think sub 7:30 is very much on.. maybe set off 7:35 but I suspect sub 7:30 is very possible.
I could not do 8 miles at my half pace.. it would kill me..
In reply to IainRUK:
ok thanks Iain - will do 3 miles tomorrow fairly easy then and for the race set off at 7'35 for mile 1, and then 7'30 thereafter and just see how it goes. Will report back!! thanks again everyone
ok thanks Iain - will do 3 miles tomorrow fairly easy then and for the race set off at 7'35 for mile 1, and then 7'30 thereafter and just see how it goes. Will report back!! thanks again everyone
So here's my race report.. any advice welcome on future training and where i may be going wrong (or not?!) as i have blown up around mile 10/11 in the last 3 halfs i have done.. personally i think maybe i need to add in a third run to my schedule - possibly an easy 5 miler at weekends.. (maybe with 1 quick mile thrown in the middle?) all thoughts welcome!
Mile 1-5: 7'30 pace (felt v comfortable)
Mile 6: 7'42 pace (felt bit harder but uphill mostly)
Miles 7-9: 7'35, 7'32 & 7'37 (starting to feel it on mile 9)
Mile 10: 7'52 felt hard (also uphill i see on strava splits so more in line with miles 7-9 GAP)
Mile 11: 8'26 - The traditional blow up happens! had to walk for about 30 secs..
Mile 12: 8'19 - walked for around 20 secs here also
Mile 13: 7'36
Mile 0.3 - 7'09
Gels at 5, 8.8 and 11 miles
Still finished in 1'42 which is a 2 minute pb so pretty happy on that front but frustrated by the blow up and felt perhaps i could/should have been able to keep it together at around 7'40 pace at least on m11&12...
Thanks for all the advice in advance - i went for the lion strategy - no regrets on that front, you've got to go for it right!
Mile 1-5: 7'30 pace (felt v comfortable)
Mile 6: 7'42 pace (felt bit harder but uphill mostly)
Miles 7-9: 7'35, 7'32 & 7'37 (starting to feel it on mile 9)
Mile 10: 7'52 felt hard (also uphill i see on strava splits so more in line with miles 7-9 GAP)
Mile 11: 8'26 - The traditional blow up happens! had to walk for about 30 secs..
Mile 12: 8'19 - walked for around 20 secs here also
Mile 13: 7'36
Mile 0.3 - 7'09
Gels at 5, 8.8 and 11 miles
Still finished in 1'42 which is a 2 minute pb so pretty happy on that front but frustrated by the blow up and felt perhaps i could/should have been able to keep it together at around 7'40 pace at least on m11&12...
Thanks for all the advice in advance - i went for the lion strategy - no regrets on that front, you've got to go for it right!
In reply to Wilbur:
Your long run isn't long enough.
Do you really need 3 gels in half, asking for stomach problems and your body really should need the carbs.
Your long run isn't long enough.
Do you really need 3 gels in half, asking for stomach problems and your body really should need the carbs.
In reply to The New NickB:
what so build to 14 and then down to 10 as opposed to 12.5 and then 8 as i did?
Yes possibly 3 is extreme for a half! didn't give me a stomach issue though and the last one was in desperation at mile 11 when i blew up (in mitigation)...
what so build to 14 and then down to 10 as opposed to 12.5 and then 8 as i did?
Yes possibly 3 is extreme for a half! didn't give me a stomach issue though and the last one was in desperation at mile 11 when i blew up (in mitigation)...
In reply to Wilbur:
Mix things up a bit, but run 15 miles a couple of times a month. Work on your 5k.
When you say you blew up, what happened?
Mix things up a bit, but run 15 miles a couple of times a month. Work on your 5k.
When you say you blew up, what happened?
In reply to Wilbur:
Yeah for a half you still need long runs of 15-16 miles to give you strength..
Well done though
Yeah for a half you still need long runs of 15-16 miles to give you strength..
Well done though
In reply to Wilbur:
Well done on getting a PB and sorry to hear that it didn't go totally to plan.
I don't know whether it means anything, but it looks like it was only Mile 11 and 12 that went wrong and you pulled it back together for Mile 13, which you managed at about the same pace as the first 9 Miles - when it has gone wrong for me in the past there has been no return, so there's the bright side / silver lining if you need one.
Having regard to the mileage suggested by Iain and Nick B - my half was done on a maximum distance of 12.5 miles and the furthest I have ever run is 14 miles (about 6 years ago, so that doesn't really count). However, I was doing five runs per week (mostly 4 to 6 milers in the week + long run at the weekend) for four months before the Cardiff Half, so perhaps that frequency made up for a lack of 15 milers. I followed the free half marathon training plan (intermediate) on the Garmin website , which you could google if you wanted full details.
Sub 1:40 for the next one....... Good Luck
Well done on getting a PB and sorry to hear that it didn't go totally to plan.
I don't know whether it means anything, but it looks like it was only Mile 11 and 12 that went wrong and you pulled it back together for Mile 13, which you managed at about the same pace as the first 9 Miles - when it has gone wrong for me in the past there has been no return, so there's the bright side / silver lining if you need one.
Having regard to the mileage suggested by Iain and Nick B - my half was done on a maximum distance of 12.5 miles and the furthest I have ever run is 14 miles (about 6 years ago, so that doesn't really count). However, I was doing five runs per week (mostly 4 to 6 milers in the week + long run at the weekend) for four months before the Cardiff Half, so perhaps that frequency made up for a lack of 15 milers. I followed the free half marathon training plan (intermediate) on the Garmin website , which you could google if you wanted full details.
Sub 1:40 for the next one....... Good Luck
thanks guys
Nick - i just really struggled at mile 11 and had to stop and walk for a breather for 30 secs. i stopped for about 15-20 secs on mile 12 also at a water station to douse myself...
fiendoidel - thanks, i'll take the silver lining!
So overall build to 15 basically. makes sense with my limited overall mileage
onwards! thanks again for all the help and advice
Nick - i just really struggled at mile 11 and had to stop and walk for a breather for 30 secs. i stopped for about 15-20 secs on mile 12 also at a water station to douse myself...
fiendoidel - thanks, i'll take the silver lining!
So overall build to 15 basically. makes sense with my limited overall mileage
onwards! thanks again for all the help and advice
In reply to fiendoidel:
The conventional wisdom (and I have to agree anecdotally) is that there's no substitute for long runs. Miss a few of the other sessions and you're OK but you have to consistently train your body for the intensity of a long run and a lot of the training effects that help this don't kick in until about 90 minutes of running.
> However, I was doing five runs per week (mostly 4 to 6 milers in the week + long run at the weekend) for four months before the Cardiff Half, so perhaps that frequency made up for a lack of 15 milers.
The conventional wisdom (and I have to agree anecdotally) is that there's no substitute for long runs. Miss a few of the other sessions and you're OK but you have to consistently train your body for the intensity of a long run and a lot of the training effects that help this don't kick in until about 90 minutes of running.
In reply to yorkshireman:
One of my favourite sessions is a 17 miler, with 14 run at a steady pace (about 1 minute per mile slower than half marathon race pace), then the last 3 miles at half marathon pace. It is murder, but it doesn't half make you strong. I just have to ration how often I do it.
One of my favourite sessions is a 17 miler, with 14 run at a steady pace (about 1 minute per mile slower than half marathon race pace), then the last 3 miles at half marathon pace. It is murder, but it doesn't half make you strong. I just have to ration how often I do it.
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