Belay Plates

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 Henry Swandale 14 Sep 2014
Hi

I'm looking to buy a belay plate, are there any recommendations of a reasonably priced reliable one?
 blackcat 14 Sep 2014
In reply to Henry Swandale:Blackdiamond atc, an old workhorse strong,cheap ,and reliable.

 PPP 14 Sep 2014
In reply to Henry Swandale:

You can't go wrong with Black Diamond ATC XP or Black Diamond ATC Guide. If you want to throw some money for a nice belay device, get Black Diamond Gridlock. I was never happier to belay with ATC Guide and Gridlock! Waiting for Grigri to be delivered for sport/indoors climbing.
 BnB 14 Sep 2014
In reply to Henry Swandale:

The problem is that climbing on other people's ropes as well as your own you can find yourself threading a lightweight 8mm half one day and stuffing in a monster 11mm the next. No single belay device covers the whole range effectively so, while the ATC is a great device for the mid-range, expect a nasty shock when you try to catch a fall on a skinny half. A combination of DMM bug and bugette will pretty much cover the full operating envelope for only £20 the pair. Proper light too and of course you only have to bring one out at the start of the day, depending on the routes and rope. Your leader will thank you one day.
 ianstevens 14 Sep 2014
In reply to BnB:
As a user of skinny halves (7.9) I have to disagree - BD ATC Guide holds falls no problem.
Post edited at 19:47
 ashley1_scott 14 Sep 2014
In reply to BnB:

I'm confused, as the BD ATC XP is designed to work with twin and half ropes wouldn't it be fine with skinny ropes. I have been fine with an 8.2 in it, as well as a thick 10.5 furry centre top rope.
 BnB 14 Sep 2014
In reply to ashley1_scott:

Then I stand corrected
In reply to blackcat:

Ok thanks
In reply to PPP:

Thanks
In reply to BnB:

Ok cheers
needvert 14 Sep 2014
In reply to Henry Swandale:

ATC-G gets my vote
 PPP 14 Sep 2014
In reply to BnB:

Well, DMM Bug and Bugette together will cover 7.5mm-11mm range while BD ATC Guide (or XP) covers 7.7mm-11mm. Not a huge difference, but you end up with one belay device, hence less hassle.

I guess as a first belay plate, it does not really matter which one to buy as almost any will do the job for regular type ropes. I bought ATC XP as first one and when I needed another one (we used to share one with my flatmate) I went straight to ATC Guide. There was nothing wrong with XP, but few extra pounds give a better variety of use. A year ago I was top roping at the wall, now I have done trad single and multi pitch climbs. You never know what will you need, so it's better to have another feature "just in case"!
 Steve nevers 15 Sep 2014
In reply to Henry Swandale:

I'd say get a standard BD ATC. I found the extra teeth on the XP just annoying.

Also the BD Gridlock is a pain in the arse, and the small keeper lip on the crab gate is lethally sharp if you manage to shear it off, and having a razorblade in your system isn't great! If you want a belay crab that has one of those 'anti-rotation' things on it DMM and other companies do better ones.
 jimtitt 15 Sep 2014
In reply to Steve nevers:

Hitting the ground is also annoying. You don´t have the use the toothed side if you don´t want to.
 Rick Graham 15 Sep 2014
In reply to jimtitt:

Jim (as usual) is spot on.

The teeth ( ATC-XP )are optional for abseiling, but provide admiral grip on all rope diameters for belaying.

I have held some looong falls onto one 8.5mm rope with no drama or skin burns. Also from personal experience, this would not have happened with the old style ATC.
 Steve nevers 15 Sep 2014
In reply to Rick Graham:

Personal experience is just adjective.

You find the teeth useful, i don't. ]

I have also held some looong falls onto one 8.5mm rope and a slicker belayplate with no drama or skin burns.

Noones 'spot on', its just what you prefer. Noone should be hitting the ground if your using what gear you have correctly.
 Rick Graham 15 Sep 2014
In reply to Steve nevers:

> Personal experience is just adjective.

Maybe or possibly subjective.

BD, Petzl, DMM, WC have done extensive scientific testing to optimise the teeth pattern on their belay devices.

Jim has tested the lot on an independent basis.
 Neil Williams 15 Sep 2014
In reply to Henry Swandale:
Don't buy a Wild Country Variable Controller 2, they jam up something rotten if you don't have a krab that fits it perfectly and are using thick-ish (climbing wall) ropes. I believe the VC 1 is even worse at this.

Other than that, take your pick. Personally I have a Black Diamond ATC XP Guide (though as of yet I haven't used the guide mode), and am very happy with it.

Neil
Post edited at 11:55
 Rick Graham 15 Sep 2014
In reply to Steve nevers:

I got an ATC - XP about ten years ago, did not like it and went back to an original ATC ( when I found a newish one at Castle Rock).

Started using a the XP when I fortunately found one at Raven Crag, last year.

The later one was not annoying, apparently the design has been tweeked.

Now bought (!) an XP guide.
 Steve nevers 15 Sep 2014
In reply to Rick Graham:



> Jim has tested the lot on an independent basis.

I'll agree that Jim has a much more informed opinion then. although its still an opinion.

I do have a few different devices for different chores, although personally i dislike the teethed devices. I can see why they have a following though.
 Neil Williams 15 Sep 2014
In reply to Steve nevers:
Used a Bug last week, and I found it pretty much exactly the same as the ATC XP Guide in grabbiness terms, to the point that I barely noticed any difference. (The Guide seems slightly less grabby than the normal ATC XP).

Neil
Post edited at 12:03
 Rick Graham 15 Sep 2014
In reply to Steve nevers:

What is very reassuring information from Jim's research is that if you have to hold a monster fall the ATC XP is his tool of choice.
 jimtitt 15 Sep 2014
In reply to Steve nevers:

> I'll agree that Jim has a much more informed opinion then. although its still an opinion.

I seperate facts from opinions as a rule and make it quite clear which is which. The original ATC is a considerably weaker belay device than the ATC XP especially with thin ropes. The ATC XP/Guide consistently outperforms the other common devices throughout the rope range and since it is a proven, reliable and vice-free product I would recommend it to anyone looking for a good, all-round belay device.

 jimtitt 15 Sep 2014
In reply to Rick Graham:

> What is very reassuring information from Jim's research is that if you have to hold a monster fall the ATC XP is his tool of choice.

It´s not actually, it would be a GriGri.
 Rick Graham 15 Sep 2014
In reply to jimtitt:

> It´s not actually, it would be a GriGri.

Sorry for mis quoting you ( from memory ).

So . Is the ATC XP your tool of choice for two ropes / trad / alpine?

The Gri gri then is good for fall factor 2 falls ? I thought some assisted devices were only good at low fall factors and the "assistance " tailed off at higher loadings.
 jimtitt 15 Sep 2014
In reply to Rick Graham:

> Sorry for mis quoting you ( from memory ).

> So . Is the ATC XP your tool of choice for two ropes / trad / alpine?

> The Gri gri then is good for fall factor 2 falls ? I thought some assisted devices were only good at low fall factors and the "assistance " tailed off at higher loadings.

Well it would probably be if I didn´t have something else that you can´t buy.

Sure, the Grigri and the Eddy are the only two I´d trust to guarantee I stop in anything approaching a reasonable distance in FF2.
 Carless 15 Sep 2014
In reply to Henry Swandale:

I had a play with an Edelrid Jul recently and rather like it

but don't try abseiling with it in locking position - it's a right pain but luckily it abseils fine the other way round
 climbwhenready 15 Sep 2014
In reply to jimtitt:

> Well it would probably be if I didn´t have something else that you can´t buy.

When/if it comes to market, will you tell us what it is?
In reply to PPP:

ok thanks
 jimtitt 15 Sep 2014
In reply to climbwhenready:

It´ll probably never appear. Designing belay devices isn´t easy as for every improvement somewhere there is a drawback somewhere else, the one I use feeds beautifully with any ropes and has roughly twice the holding power of an ATC XP with thin ropes BUT abseiling on them it twists them together in a way it is hard to believe. I accept that and use a krab brake above but it isn´t really marketeable since in an Alpine situation (cold, dark, storm etc) it would be potentially dangerous.
The Climbing Technology belay devices are the best of that type but then they have their drawbacks as well, if you can live with them then fine. For rock-solid stopping with a single rope no matter what happens it´s Grigri all the way and for sheer versatility and function it´s the Black Diamond ATC XP variations, nothing I´ve tested really comes close though there are so many clones out there something else must work pretty well!
In reply to Neil Williams:

Cheers Neil
Andy225 16 Sep 2014
In reply to Henry Swandale:

My vote from ebay /FALLING-ROCKS/BELAY-/_i.html?_fsub=3094717018&_sid=249081428

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