Recommend me a belay device

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 Shapeshifter 13 Aug 2014
I generally use a GriGri for sport climbing or down the wall, but my good lady, who is a non climber and who also very occasionally belays me, finds them hard to use (rope stick on feeding etc) and much prefers to use an ATC. Ideally I'd like her to be using an auto locking belay device really (no lectures about over-reliance please), so just wondered if anybody could recommend anything that feeds smoothly, but auto-locks. Note would only need to be single rope single pitch use. Any info on the Mammut Smart or the Click Up device for example?

Thanks

Chubbs
 GridNorth 13 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

I love my Mammut Smart but like all assisted braking devices it struggles with thick furry ropes. It's cheaper, less bulky, lighter and more intuitive to use than a GriGri, Cick-up etc.

You might want to take a look on this forum. The new Edelrid Megajule and DMM devices look quite promising.
 Jenny C 13 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

If she is confident and proficient using an ATC I really would't fuss about getting her to change. If she only belays occasionally (assuming she has a safe technique) I would be reluctant to complicate matters by introducing an alternative device.

However I have recently swapped from an old style Wild Country VC to using a Mammut Smart as my belay device of choice. It doesn't lock to the same degree as a GriGri (it creeps slightly) but locks well enough that you can let go of the rope and it will hold. Lead belaying I use it exactly as I would an ATC, but at the same time lift the handle up with the index finger of my right hand when paying out slack.
OP Shapeshifter 13 Aug 2014
In reply to Jenny C:

Well she's confident-ish and proficient-ish with an ATC, but not to the same level as a regular climber. The sub-text to my question being sometimes I fall a bit further than I might before being stopped, if you catch my drift, so if there is a device out there to help us both feel a bit more confident it might be worth trying. From what you say the Smart might be worth a look....does it feed ok with an average 10mil rope would you say i.e not too furry.
 Jenny C 13 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

Mine feeds fine with our lead rope (a newish 10mm I think) and belays OK on the centre top ropes.

I use it as I would a standard ATC, so best practice locking off at all times. I do find it slightly more awkward to lower with - not difficult, but slower and less slick than an ATC.
OP Shapeshifter 13 Aug 2014
In reply to Jenny C:

OK thanks.

Any other suggestions anyone? Ta
 Kai 13 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

I am a big fan of the Alpine Up.

Does everything well. Feeds out rope very smoothly. Locks up when it should. Rappelling is very smooth and controlled.

Only downside is bulk and price.
 RyanOsborne 13 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

Might be worth looking into the new DMM Grip one?

http://tv.thebmc.co.uk/video/dmm-grip-belay-device

Looks pretty good; intuitive like an ATC type, but extra grip... Not sure it's technically auto-lock but as long as your hand is on the rope it should provide enough assistance to brake effectively.

 andrewmc 13 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

> (no lectures [...] please)

optimistic for UKC :P
 lithos 13 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

I use a smart and like it, far closer to the standard tuber type(ATC) than a gri gri etc.

yes it can lock up a tad when not concentratng but not on the same scale as gri gri.
I've not used an alpine/click up but hear good things about them BUT for the occasional user
the smart is a much simpler device (it's similar to a tube) and ergonomically obvious to set up.

all IMHO.
 Gone 13 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

I tried the Smart and the Click up and preferred the Click up.
You might need to work out why you are falling further than you should - if the problem is that she is leaving too much slack out or even that she is beiing dragged by your weight, a new belay device won't help.
 Jenny C 13 Aug 2014
In reply to RyanOsborne:
> Might be worth looking into the new DMM Grip one?

Not out till Feb though.

Got my hands on a test version of these the other week and it really does hold the rope much more securely than the likes of an ATC (or even Reverso 3). HOWEVER it is NOT autolocking and if you let go of the rope, it will release and the climber will plummet in exactly the same way they would if you didn't lock an ATC off.
 Otis 13 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

I've recently started using a smart and am very impressed. Belay technique is very similar to a traditional device, with just a coue of minor differences that are mastered in a couple of climbs. It auto locks, it grips well and it's a doddle to use. At £23 you can't go far wrong.
 steveshaking 13 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

I think I should put in a word for the Mega Jul.
It does work well locking up and it feeds easily too.
Much cheaper, more compact and lighter than the smart and click up alternatives.
But it does seem to cause all sorts of controversy when ever its mentioned and one issue is whether its a good beginners device. As it seems to attract a bit of a love/hate relationship see if you can try one or observe one in use? Even see a video review? If you are only using single ropes then the gear show feature shows the mega2 as an alternative, not sure when its out. But the mega jul certainly gives a much harder catch than the jul2 video.
 beardy mike 13 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2: Another vote for click up. Admitedly I only have the alpine up but it works exactly the same way and it is excellent. Tried the Mega Jul and IMNSHO its the spawn of satan. Not tried the smart so can't compare... the camp "grigri" looks like it's going to be excellent if you can wait for it, although rather expensive...
 Stevie989 13 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

Another for the Smart- Its ideal for your purposes.


 TobyA 13 Aug 2014
In reply to steveshaking:

I also like the MegaJul and have used it a fair amount on a 10.2 BUT it can be a bit sticky like a grigri if you don't feed it right. If the OPs partner finds a Grigri annoying I imagine she might find the Jul similar. I don't hate it in the way Mike above does but I think it might be a bit pernickety for a non climber who does a bit of belaying.

OP - do you have the classic ATC? In which case that's really slick. The ATC XP would be an obvious, simple and pretty cheap alternative. It's not auto locking but the grooves help hold falls more easily.
 knighty 14 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

Italian hitch. It works wonders.
 beardy mike 14 Aug 2014
In reply to TobyA:

I don't hate it. I think it should be returned to the fires of modor from whence it came. I'm pretty certain this is inscribed on the insdie of the Mega Jul.

Three belay plates for the sports climbers hanging off their bolts,
Seven for the trad spraymasters on their walls of doom,
Nine for Mortal Men, not knowing which to choose are doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne,
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie,
One belay plate to rule them all, one ring to find them,
One belay plate to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the Land of Mordor where the Shadows lie.
OP Shapeshifter 14 Aug 2014
In reply to mike kann:

(Doffs cap - but you should get out more!)

Thanks for all the suggestions - I'll think I'll take the Lady Galadriel to a gear shop to try out the Smart, Click Up and Megajul....there can be only one!! (...er hang on that's another gear story!)

Chubbs
 CPH 15 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

I've been using a Click Up with 9.2mm-10.0mm ropes for c. 3 years...it's brilliant. My wife likes it as well. I also recommend the Alpine Up (esp. for secure abseiling).
Hi,

I'm a CT "Up" fan and user, but let me say at Friedrichshafen I played with DMM's new Grip and I think I fell in love with it. Rather than trying to compete with the GriGri, DMM has managed to create something that's actually different from both a tube and an assisted locking device, imo making the tube concept substantially safer and friendlier. I can't wait to try it. Their new Pivot is also somewhat genius in its simplicity. I always wondered why they were stuck with the Bug and not coming out with something like the ATC Guide or the Reverso or any other that's fundamentally just the same thing with a different logo stamped on it. Now I know why Of course DMM will still not be offering an assisted locking device... interesting take on it... I'm pub talking now...

Nic
needvert 22 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

There was a notable thread about locking belay devices recently. I came away from it having new respect for the ATC XP, munter hitch and despite all smart, jul etc coming to market - the grigri. It seems to still be king of the hill in terms of locking up. The clickup was thought to be quite promising though a bit of an unknown in terms of the testing and failure modes.
The above was partly in the context of catching hard falls in a multipitch context.
 Robert Durran 22 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

I use a Click-Up for single rope (I tried a Smart and it was more fiddly and less like a normal plate) and love it - perfect if you are switching from a normal plate because it works exactly the same way when belaying. I have started using a Micro Jul for double ropes and am very impressed - works just like a normal plate but safer, great for abseiling (locks if let go of, so a prussic never needed) and very light.
needvert 22 Aug 2014
In reply to Robert Durran:

Is it safer?

Reading http://www.mountainproject.com/v/edelrid-megajul-belay-device/109133730__1 Jim Titt's comment on the atc-xp vs megajul holding power.
 climbwhenready 22 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:

If you're falling "a bit further than you might", how does that relate to the usage of the ATC? I would have expected it to be down to either a) weight differences, at which you might want to consider a ground anchor, or b) slack pumped into the system, which would happen with any belay device. If the rope is starting to run at speed through the ATC, you would have decked.

Not to discourage you getting an assisted device, but just something to think about!!
 andrewmc 22 Aug 2014
In reply to needvert:

It's at least comparable to a Reverso for most rope types (albeit rubbish with tiny ropes)...
 TobyA 22 Aug 2014
In reply to Robert Durran:

> I have started using a Micro Jul for double ropes and am very impressed - works just like a normal plate but safer,

Yep, was using mine last night on double 9s and it worked smoothly, I was given it mainly for reviewing the new Edelrid 8.6 single rope, so hadn't used it with normal double before I don't think (have used the Mega Jul for that) so was happy it worked smoothly .

> great for abseiling (locks if let go of, so a prussic never needed) and very light.

Only if you use it the right way round of course! But, yes, useful feature I've found too.

 Fraser 22 Aug 2014
In reply to chubbs2:
> ...GriGri ...but my good lady, ... finds them hard to use (rope stick on feeding etc)

If I were you, I'd get her to adjust her technique and try a slightly thinner rope. I used an SRC for years and really liked it, previously not having 'got on' wiht a Mk 1 Gri-gri. I switched to the Gri-gri fairly recently when I forgot my SRC and have stuck with one now ever since. The only time I have issued is if I'm using a thick wall rope, which is probably now about 12mm combined wiht a Mk 2 Gri-gri. Even then, it's only rarely sticky, as long as you're paying attention.

Once you figure out or are shown the correct paying out technique, for me, there is no alternative.
Post edited at 12:48
 steveshaking 22 Aug 2014
In reply to needvert:

Its not easy to understand these comments from Jim Titt; I need pictures, graphs and tables.
The devices are termed assisted braking devices - is he testing with no use of hands? I've been dropped to the ground by some one using an ACT on 8.5mm ropes (resulting in burnt hands for him, I was OK). On the other hand I have been able to catch falls with ease from a heavier climber with a Mega Jul. So I don't really understand the problem or the point at which the holding force is lost. But he is drawing these conclusions - so it would be good to see his data and methods to make sense of all.
In the real world is anyone finding these devices slicker than ATCs or even the grooved versions?
I will say that abseiling in the none locking mode with a Mega Jul on 8.5mm ropes doesn't provide much braking force and is akin to an ATC, it does need care. Its worth developing the knack of avoiding jerkiness when using the locking mode - this certainly is a bit of an issue.
 jimtitt 22 Aug 2014
In reply to steveshaking:

You haven´t read the thread properly have you? The graphs are there and the method is there.
These devices aren´t termed "assisted braking devices". They are manual braking devices and as such tested and certified under prEN15151 and carry the UIAA Safety label as manual belay devices. There is no assisted braking category under either EN and UIAA.
 rgold 23 Aug 2014
In reply to steveshaking:

> Its not easy to understand these comments from Jim Titt; I need pictures, graphs and tables.

Seriously? They are in the thread.

> So I don't really understand the problem or the point at which the holding force is lost. But he is drawing these conclusions - so it would be good to see his data and methods to make sense of all.

It's in the thread!

> In the real world is anyone finding these devices slicker than ATCs or even the grooved versions?

If you read the thread (and can navigate past the static), you'll understand there is more than one "real world." The "real world" most people speak of is the world of "everyday" falls, ones that are relatively easy to stop either because the fall factor is low or because there is a lot of friction in the system or both. Then there is another real world of "extreme" falls, ones with fall factor greater than one and with very little friction in the system. These "extreme" falls are rare enough (one condition is that the leader has to fall past the belay) that plenty of folks never have to catch even one, but if you do you will have entered the second "real world."

In the second "real world," a big question is when and how much the rope is going to slip. The surprising answer from Jim's data is that the rope will slip sooner and more with a MegaJul, Alpine Smart, or Alpine Up (listed in order of decreasing bad performance) than with a "non-locking" ATC XP. The fact that the first three devices "lock" at lower loads does not mean that they "lock" at higher loads, and moreover once the rope starts to run through them at high loads they provide less braking assistance than an ATC XP.

I don't think we know what "the problem" is (well, maybe Jim knows...) My hypothesis, based partially on comments from Jim---but these are my speculations, not his so don't shout at him---is that the "locking" mechanism of these devices involves pinching the rope in a hole between the carabiner and the body of the device, and at high loads the rope stretch makes it thinner, but the hole has a minimum size and so at some point no longer provides adequate pinching. At this point, the devices revert to ATC braking coming from friction and bends in the device. But in order to make the hole-pinching mechanism work, the carabiner has to travel much closer to the top of the device than in an ATC (all the devices have a deep slot the carabiner travels in towards the top of the device), and in that high position the rope bends that have to perform the braking function for high loads are gentler then an ATC's, leading to worse extreme-case behavior.

Anyway, that's my understanding of the data and charts from Jim in the MP thread. One conclusion I think worth considering: if you use one of these devices in a multipitch environment, it is may be more important than usual to wear belay gloves.


 BnB 23 Aug 2014
In reply to rgold:

I'm trying out an Alpine Up since acquiring it a month ago and it got its first proper (ie with falls) workout yesterday. My partner fell (multiply)on two routes, one HVS, one VS, each time with good eye level gear and no run out, but with nasty ledges and flakes to hit that you'd expect as hazards on a grit VS.

Contrary to CT's instructions I wasn't employing dynamic (non-assisted) mode. The gear was excellent and I can't see the point of an assisted braking device that you use other than in assisted mode (except for the odd occasion when prudence dictates). The catch on these short falls was instant and effortless and the assistance probably prevented my partner hitting the ledge.

I've used a megajul extensively (and liked it, especially the weight) but the Alpine Up catches more smoothly and is less prone to locking off when paying out slack to the leader. Lowering with the Up is amazingly smooth in contrast to the jerky mJul and the same goes for abseiling in locking mode. The weight is the penalty you pay and there will be mountain days when a bugette will be my first choice.
 TobyA 23 Aug 2014
In reply to rgold:

It does make me wonder if then the megajul would be an optimal device for Scottish winter or icefall climbing. If some goes really wrong and the leader takes a big plummet, firstly you'll be wearing gloves anyway and then the slippage might actually protect the belay somewhat? Isn't it that slippage through devices is actually a major part of how the systems absorbs big forces generated by falls approaching factor 2?
 jimtitt 23 Aug 2014
In reply to rgold:
> Seriously? They are in the thread.

> It's in the thread!

> I don't think we know what "the problem" is (well, maybe Jim knows...) My hypothesis, based partially on comments from Jim---but these are my speculations, not his so don't shout at him---is that the "locking" mechanism of these devices involves pinching the rope in a hole between the carabiner and the body of the device, and at high loads the rope stretch makes it thinner, but the hole has a minimum size and so at some point no longer provides adequate pinching. At this point, the devices revert to ATC braking coming from friction and bends in the device. But in order to make the hole-pinching mechanism work, the carabiner has to travel much closer to the top of the device than in an ATC (all the devices have a deep slot the carabiner travels in towards the top of the device), and in that high position the rope bends that have to perform the braking function for high loads are gentler then an ATC's, leading to worse extreme-case behavior.

That´s about it, to get any real pinching effect you have to arrange the two rope contact points and the karabiner slot in such a way that the non-pinching braking is exceptionally poor. Once you get past the benefits of the pinching then it´s worse than a conventional plate. You don´t get something for nothing.
To stop the plate jamming irretrievably (since you could infact arrange the points so thet the rope jammed solid and needed a crowbar to release) the manufacturers prevent the karabiner moving completwely forwards and so the is a residual hole for the rope to pass through, on the MegaJul for example this is a larger cross sectional area than the thinnest allowed rope which is why the performance is poor with thin ropes.
The problem of using some kind of assistance to lock the rope related to the releasing of the rope under load is the biggest problem with any of this kind of device, getting the locking force is easy, getting rid of it isn´t. The new Camp Matic, despite ten years of development sprouted a folding handle between printing the publicity material and posters and the actual launch, an indication of how hard is even to approach satisfactory lowering performance. The MegaJul goes to the extreme of lightness by leaving the handle off altogether expecting one to buy a special karabiner to replace it and even then the lowering performance is less than exceptional to put it kindly.
Salewa have a new device coming, whether they were smart enough to steal the bit off the CT Up that makes it brake so well and incoporate it is the big question but the lack of a release handle makes it unlikely.
Right now the AlpineUp is the best of this kind of device (so far as I´ve tested it) but it still is a fairly daunting thing in its size and complexity, a stripped down version might find it´s way onto my harness but until then I´ll stick with what I already use.
Post edited at 18:52
 rgold 24 Aug 2014
In reply to TobyA:
> (In reply to rgold)
>
> It does make me wonder if then the megajul would be an optimal device for Scottish winter or icefall climbing. If some goes really wrong and the leader takes a big plummet, firstly you'll be wearing gloves anyway and then the slippage might actually protect the belay somewhat? Isn't it that slippage through devices is actually a major part of how the systems absorbs big forces generated by falls approaching factor 2?

It is true that slippage is touted as a "safety valve" mechanism for capping peak loads to gear on long falls. But the mechanism involved depends on how much resistance the device offers once slipping occurs; the less resistance, the more slippage required to absorb the same amount of fall energy. With greater slippage comes and extension of the leader's fall distance, adding additional fall energy that has to be absorbed, not to mention further endangering the leader, and perhaps there is also an increased danger of the belayer losing control.

There is no good way to quantify the level at which slippage ought to occur. No matter what level you pick, there will be manky gear that might hold if there was more slippage. In any case, device performance appears to be overshadowed by the variation in individual belayer performance once there is a possibility of the rope running, so much so that it is hard to know how much slippage will occur for a single belayer repeatedly holding exactly the same fall.

The point of all this is that there is no reason to think that more slippage is better in general. In some circumstances it might be, in others not. As you decrease the slipping threshold, slipping will occur on less and less severe falls, a side-effect which might not be at all desirable.

For climbs where it is known ahead of time that the gear is likely to be bad, I personally wouldn't want to use anything that "locks" at any load level, because with a tube-style the belayer has an option to control slippage that they might want to exercise. I'm fond of my Alpine Up for rock climbing with half ropes, but I'd use an ATC-XP for the winter stuff (if I was still doing that sort of thing).
 steveshaking 26 Aug 2014
In reply to rgold: and in reply to Jimtitt and Toby

I guess I haven't read the full thread - a thread isn't really great for this sort of thing. I paper or article would be better. But I am not doing any shouting - just trying to understand if as an owner of a Mega Jul I should be worried. To be honest I think I now need animations to understand the issues involved, like many climbers I'm not an engineer but I am interested in my and my partner's safety.

The manufacture list •High braking performance assists the belayer with leader falls. And UK Climbing has an article on assisted belay devices http://www.ukclimbing.com/gear/review.php?id=3498 , so its a common enough and fairly descriptive term, I am happy to accept its not a UIAA term. I'm not being defensive or reversing what might seem as pedantry - we do have a bunch of devices that fit the bill and if there are growing concerns then perhaps the UIAA needs to consider this growing class and how to test them.

I think the 2 worlds story does help - I am trying to understand how bad the lack of resistance is and how bad the fall has to be to provide that situation. e.g. with 8.5mm halves is it worse than a ATC-XP but better than an ATC and are we talking factor 2 falls only? Again my friends burnt fingers from attempting to arrest a slow peal off of a second (new 8.5 ropes) with an ATC shows how nasty this can be - if a Mega Jul becomes this bad then I would need to retire it.

As for trad and ice, I am wondering with the design presents the worst of both worlds - in smaller falls or with a lot of friction in the system the catch is fairly hard which isn't great for marginal gear, yet with larger fall forces catching them becomes a real problem.

So what to make of the new Jul2 that introduces slippage. Were is build for double ropes it would be better for Trad and Ice, but where is the design taking us with the high fall force situations?
 jimtitt 26 Aug 2014
In reply to steveshaking:

Well I´ll admit the thread was a bit chaotic, it was just a reply from me to Richard pointing out his assumtion that the "more vigorous braking" from this kind of device continued all the way up the force curves was in fact incorrect. Nobody wants to be told their personal choice of equipment is the worst performer out there so Brian gave us days of entertainment! Audi drivers are the same.

The question of whether there should be a third class of device is a bit difficult, previously I´d have said there should be but nowadays I´m not so sure. Things like the GriGri do have different capabilities than a Smart and thats reasonably accepted, the difference in the performance and function of a MegaJul and an ATC is rather blurred but basically they all still do the same job, if the braking assistance made a major contribution all the way up then it would be different.
Which is "safer" depends on what you do and what you expect, my Smart was supposed to lock if I let go of the rope abseiling which is a safety aspect. It didn´t lock enough to stop me sliding down so that was a failure and just became an annoyance in the end since I had to f*ck about both with the handle and a Prusik to ab. The MegaJul was worse since I had to buy a special karabiner to have the pleasure of jerking my way down the rope and still needed a bit of string as a back-up. Since my climbing often involves fairly run-out stuff straight off the belay the poor high-force braking means I went back to something smooth with reliable braking power and no handling issues.
If ones idea of a big whipper is falling off at Stanage and the biggest danger you face is an innattentive and inexperienced belayer then its different, you pay your money and take your choice.

As you note, another aspect is the loss of choice for the belayer, with a conventional plate a competent belayer has the entire range of braking force and fall distance to work with, with the "assisted" devices it´s out of their hands. While the offerings from Climbing Technology have far better braking performance I´m not convinced that this is the end of the argument since apart from the complication and bulk there is the downside that with a low-impact fall the device won´t lock at all. The DAV have some interesting tests on this with a variety of devices, suffice it to say none are a substitute for a competent belayer.

The Jul2:- Edelrid didn´t press one into my hand to test and had no data for high-force braking (or anything else for that matter) so you can think whatever you like really. (The UKC product review from Outdoor shows a product ambassador displaying the hands-free locking ability of the Jul2, the demo I watched involved the weight sack hitting the floor at speed). Some companies like CT and DMM are interested in what others testers see and encourage third-party testing, some don´t.
 steveshaking 27 Aug 2014
In reply to jimtitt:
I have now fought my way through the thread and the graphs on pages 5 and 6 are interesting. it looks like the mega Jul is particularly sensitive to rope diameter although they all are and with devices with grooves there are rope handling issues too.
With 8.5 mm ropes the mega Jul does look to perform well at the realistic end of holding, you mention holding up to 12 is realistic. no sudden drop off. Is that right? Obviously with the 7.8mm things got a bit worrying.
 jimtitt 27 Aug 2014
In reply to steveshaking:

Perform well is relative, none of the commonly used devices is realistically up to the demands of a worst-case fall unless you both wear gloves and accept a much longer fall distance, especially with the thinner ropes in use today. Some devices perform better than others which is inevitable but whether any are excellent is extremely doubtful.
Of course increasing the holding power by adding a karabiner is a simple option for conventional plates which is not really viable for Smart and ClickUp users (with the MegaJul it´s erratic, sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn´t depending on what the two karabiners decide to do).

The point of interest (for me anyway) is what happens with half ropes under the various strand loading scenarios, both loaded equally or only one taking the load. Most devices are particularly poor if only one takes the load since our gripping ability goes down a lot so rope burns become a real hazard. Wear gloves and our gripping ability goes down even further so we avoid the rope burns but drop the climber further which may or may not be undesirable. One concept is that if the belayer lets go due to rope burning then the semi-locking type of plate will keep on braking anyway but at least at the lower end of the allowed ropes this probably isn´t the case for many of them. A matter for investigation and further thought!
 andrewmc 27 Aug 2014
In reply to jimtitt:

I have (co-incidentally) just bought a MegaJul and a pair of 8.5mm trad ropes, which is probably a standard diameter for UK trad? Looking at your graphs I would not use 7.8mm ropes with the MegaJul but then I suspect with ropes that small it would be a good idea to ignore all the optimistic manufacturer ranges and use a smaller device...

My MegaJul replaces a Reverso 4 that I accidentally threw in the sea. Given that in your tests the MegaJul out-performs the Reverso 3 (presumably about the same as the Reverso 4) across all force measurements, either the MegaJul is fine for this rope type or the Reverso was not?

The other interesting graph for me is the one comparing single line loaded and double line loaded for 8.5mm halves (maximum force hand test). Here the MegaJul has the smallest fractional reduction in braking strength, while the ATC XP has the highest? In fact, the ATC XP braking strength comes down nearly to the same level as the MegaJul (ATC from ~250kg to ~170kg, MegaJul from ~180kg to ~150kg).

I have only used it once or twice and haven't quite got the technique perfect yet, but it is definitely strongly auto-locking for me on abseils with my old 10.2 single, and based on your graphs I assume it is the same with my new 8.5mm halves.

PS thanks for doing all the testing!
 jimtitt 28 Aug 2014
In reply to andrewmcleod:


> ......either the MegaJul is fine for this rope type or the Reverso was not?

Or neither? The graphs show the best results you´re ever likely to get, there are plenty of things that make life worse;- a weaker belayer, an awkward belaying position, a new treated rope, a bit of rain and so on. I prefer to see considerable higher values if there is the possibility of taking a major fall.





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