UKH

Hi everyone,

This is my first post, I'm new to the online mountaineering scene. I have an idea:

Walk to the top of the 100 mountains, of a relative height of 600m or more, in Great Britain (96 to be exact) in one go. The plan would be to hike/climb to a summit, if the next is within walking distance continue onto it. If not then mount up in the vehicle we will be living out of and move to the next mountain. I've made some calculations working out the distance of the nearest major road to the summit, taking into account elevation of the climb, distance to next start point etc.. I have come up with the following results.

Hiking Time: 17 days.
Driving Time: 5 days.
Total Time: 22 days.
Total Expedition Time (inc rest/personal administration): 44 days.

Average Distance Per Day: 14 miles.
Total Hiking Distance: 629 miles.
Total Driving Distance: 844 miles.
Total Expedition Distance: 1473 miles.

I plan to do this as part of a military adventure training expedition, raising money for a forces charity and hopefully promoting the appeal of the British wilderness.

My reason for posting here is really to ask your opinions, is this achievable? Too easy? Worth it?

Any feedback would be gladly received,

Kind regards,

Mark "Wiley" Wileman.

In reply to Wiley:

I don't understand the objective: "the 100 mountains, of a relative height of 600m or more, in Great Britain (96 to be exact)"

There's many more than 96 British mountains higher than 600m - all the Munros for starters. Even England can muster more than 96. Is there something I'm missing?

In reply to Turdus torquatus:

600m prominence, not absolute height, I think.

Sounds like quite a trip!

In reply to Wiley:

You need a minimum drop of 50% height of the last summit for the next one to be legit!

In reply to Turdus torquatus:



Perhaps it's a typo? The objective is very strange and not at all inspiring. Just a lot of walking and burning of petrol.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I think it's approximately this list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mountains_of_the_British_Isles_by_rela...
minus the ROI bits.

Which, to be fair, does include a lot of very nice places...

In reply to Ramblin dave:

I'll have to confess I've always been bored stiff by all these quantifying tables of summits. There still seem to be 282 Munros (i.e over 914m), so I remain both baffled and uninspired. Height above sea level is not particularly interesting when it comes to the merit of any particular mountain.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

You have a point there, Sir!
I've been packing the big miles and 1000s of feet of ascent in recently, over the moors near Manc.
At a fraction of the cost of going to the Lakes etc.

In reply to Lusk:

Whatever turns you on. For me, one mountain rock climb of whatever standard was always more interesting than any walking route to a summit.

In reply to Wiley:

Why do you need 44 days, surely these things are usually done as a continuous effort?

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I'm training for a sub 24hr Cuillin Traverse!
Be next year at 55 now.

In reply to Wiley:







I'd start by Quoting Picasso- 'if you know exactly what you are going to do, what is the point in doing it?'
From your post, it sounds like you're uncomfortable with uncertainty. The questions you ask about it being achievable or worth it are really only answerable by you.
It has been said that all expeditions are easy in retrospect.

There are websites such as Walkhighlands, Munromagic, and ScottishHills where people post their trip reports. Often, the reports will have a statistical summary of what their walk entailed. I'm not sure whether individuals provide that information because the layout of the webpage invites it, or because they think it is of interest to others.
Ultimately, it is what matters to you.

In reply to Ramblin dave:

Right, get what you mean. Ta.

In reply to Wiley:

Sounds good fun, there are a lot of great hills on that list and the list itself has a pleasing feel to it!

It's certainly achievable, and you won't know whether it's too easy, or worth it, until you get going - but if you're interested enough to have thought it up, you're unlikely to fail to appreciate the places it will take you to and the things you'll see on the way.

I've been up most of those hills (but not all, and not in one push), and many are real gems.

It's probably best to ignore the posts from people that just can't understand why you'd enjoy this, and go for it. They can get on with the things they enjoy instead!

In reply to Wiley:

Thanks for all the feedback!

In response to Turdus Torquatus: How I got the list of 96 mountains. Relative height of 600 metres means the summit is at least 600 metres higher than the average contour of the region. The idea behind it is so each peak is a climb in itself, and not just traversing a ridge line to reach the next.

In reply to the New NickB: Why would I need 44 days? Well working on some rough calculations (straight line distances from nearest major road to summit) has given me a result of 17 days total travelling using Naismiths rule (in reality it will longer than this). With a further 5 days for vehicle traveling. I assume I will need to sleep, eat, conduct maintenance on equipment/vehicle, and that is why I have doubled the amount of days. To allow 12 hours a day of hiking/driving and 12 hours of rest and other activities.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth: I agree with the statement that just walking up a track for 6 weeks would be boring to some, and once I get into the further planning I am considering only choosing off track routes and scrambles, which will of course add considerable time. The challenge in my head here is not the physical challenge of each peak but the endurance effort of them all combined.

In reply to Llechwedd: I myself would love to take 6 weeks out to do this challenge. The reason for posting here is due to me having to "sell" this idea to my regiment to allow me to take the time off work and put an Army face on it.

Here is a link to the spreadsheet that I have used to get my data. I would ask that before anyone who has climbed the named peaks questions the ascent/descent times that they understand that these are predicted distances, worked out entirely from Google maps. If this plan moves along further I will make route plans on 1:25,000 OS maps giving exact distances and times.

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B9MFbE777GVaZlF2Y3hBVWxFbnM/edit?usp=drive_...

Thanks for the replies.

In reply to skog:

Cheers Skog!

In reply to Wiley:

It's a worthy challenge, not one I've seen done before. In order to "sell" it to donors, you might consider making it the top 100 by adding the next four summits by prominence (Ben Cleuch, Moruisg, Mullach Coire Mhic Fhearchair and Beinn Bhuidhe.


That's not the correct definition The relative height is the minimum height of climb to the summit on any route from a higher peak, or from sea level if there is no higher peak on the same landmass.

The link to the spreadsheet you posted doesn't allow downloading, but I think averaging over 2 per day will be tough, especially once you factor in the logistics of getting on/off the all the islands, and Knoydart.

In reply to Mark Bull:

The British 'wilderness' needs promoting like I need a full frontal lobotomy.

In reply to Mark Bull:
Yeah I'm in the very early planning stages. Rounding it up would back sense, might mean finishing on the "Fan Dance" or the Welsh 3000s to give it a bit of an edge.

This link should work:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9MFbE777GVaZlF2Y3hBVWxFbnM/edit?usp=shari...

Thanks!

In reply to Wiley:


Direct routes from the nearest roads will often not be feasible/sensible, so I think you are probably underestimating the walk time somewhat, and 50-60 days might be more realistic, once you factor in ferries and some contingency days for rests and bad weather. Obviously it will depend a lot on the team's hill skills and fitness, and whether you have additional support crew.

In reply to Mark Bull:

Agreed on all points, thanks a lot for being a voice of reason. I'm planning on this being a duo mission one being an ML. Ideally would love to make this a 5-6 man venture, but it gets harder and harder to support the more people you add into the mix. Two people can happily live out of a vehicle on the road for 6-8 weeks.

In reply to Wiley:


I am still struggling with your calculations I am afraid. So each of the days outlined in your schedule is an 'active' period of 24 hours, not say a day were you for example spend 8 hours walking, 2 driving and the rest eating, sleeping etc.

This suggests it will take you 120 hours to drive 844 miles, an average of 7 miles per hour. I would suggest 30 miles per hour would be a more sensible average which brings to the driving time down to 28 hours. The allowance for walking of 17 days or 408 hours equates to an average of 1.54 miles per hour, which may well equate to Naismith's rule. Only you know how your walking compares to the version of Naismith's you are using.

Assuming 10 or 12 hour days the length of the exercise becomes 43 days and 6 hours or 36 days and 8 hours. Obvious lots of variables exist, logistics of specific groups of hills or the travel between them, do you want rest days or at least days where you do less.

In reply to Wiley:

You seem to have thought of all "hiking" to be equal. You haven't considered, so haven't factored in, the ascent time i.e. uphill "hiking".
It is slower and tires you.
What does 600m above "the average contour of region mean"? How far from a particular hill would this average contour extend? What defines a region?
In the Lakes for example, the hills rise so quickly from the valley that you go down from 3000' down to 400' within a mile or two.

In reply to mockerkin:


Yes he has, he has applied Naismith's rule.

In reply to mockerkin:

I have confused matters a little with my explination of relative height. Wikipedia does a much better:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topographic_prominence

In reply to The New NickB:

Thanks Nick, apparently Google Earth took into account ferry times to the Western Isles it seems. The version of Naismith's I used was 15 minutes per KM plus 10 minutes for every 100 metres of climb, which I feel is relatively accurate taking into account short breaks, different terrain etc...

I'm in the process of modifying the list of peaks to "mainland Britain" excluding the Western Isles and the Isle of Man, to reduce vehicle travelling time. This would strike 6 peaks off the list (Skye is connected by a bridge so I can still drive to these).

That leaves me 12 peaks to make up to the 100 mark, with a bit of modification I could turn the Snowdonia leg into the Welsh 3000s. Looking more achievable by the day!

In reply to Wiley:

For a definitive list of hills, download the spreadsheet from http://www.hills-database.co.uk/downloads.html (you can sort on Drop, which is the same as relative height).

In reply to Wiley:



I'd leave them in - they're interesting places to visit, time spent on or waiting for ferries is basically recovery time, and to be honest, 844 miles of travelling in six weeks wouldn't be that unusual for a lot of people just going away at weekends! (It's something like one and a half weekends in the lakes from London, for instance...). It's not like the national 3 peaks, which really is a driving challenge as much as a walking one.

Obviously it depends on you whether you're going to be able to manage it, but the whole thing doesn't sound massively unrealistic. It's a good amount of walking and the travel time is presumably relatively easy to break up, with no single mega driving days.

In reply to Ramblin dave:


In an ideal world I would love to, the battle here is a worthy challenge vs time my unit would realistically allow me to undertake it!

In reply to Wiley:

To me the whole thing has nothing to do with love of the hills, just something to go onto your CV and you are using the hills for that reason.
You are new to online mountaineering. Pity that you didn't check UKC, you would have seen that many of us deplore the hills being used for "expeditions" such as yours. You haven't said who you are taking, if you will advise them re. litter, defecating etc. The three peaks jaunt defiles the Ben, Scafell Pike and Snowdon. Go away and do something elsewhere.

In reply to Wiley:


Think that's a complete cop-out and you have to choose the next twelve with 600m prominence if you're going for 'mainland Britain'!

In reply to armus:

It would have been nice if you had read the thread a little more carefully before passing such a harsh judgement - he's only planning to take one other person.

In reply to petestack:

There are only 88 :/

In reply to armus:


What's that? I'm intrigued.


That's exactly what he is doing.


So because he hasn't mentioned it, we presume guilt?


He's not really doing the "three peaks jaunt" is he? And not everyone who does so is defiling anything.


Yes, leave the mountains for the proper online mountaineers.

In reply to Wiley:


So just do the 88 and leave it at that?

In reply to armus:


I agree. I also can't stand all those Munro baggers, going around the hills like they own them... Can't people realise that the mountains aren't for climbing on, and just leave them alone?

In reply to armus:



Armus' 'letting you have it with both barrels' doesn't leave much room for discussion, but I have a smidgeon of sympathy with his '"expeditions" such as yours' comment.
Recently, there was a post on UKC about whether the style in which a climb was made had any bearing on claims to have completed it.

To my knowledge, a similar debate has not been had about walking up mountains. Slapping the summit cairn is all that matters. This is how most Munro baggers approach the matter. Drive to the car park which gives easiest access- walk up , and bag the summit. Nothing wrong with that. It can be fun, and it gets you out of the house. Tens of thousands are doing it. Each individuals' trip is of no real significance to anyone but themselves. The commitment to the journey is minimised.
This is also how it is with the motorised Three Peakers.
Use a vehicle and you can get up more peaks in a given time. But it's not very stylish.
However, if you have a significant disability, and a car makes it achievable then why not?
If you're driving to the 'wilderness', the experience you'll have of it will be diminished.

In reply to llechwedd:


Yeah I'd agree with that. A possible suggestion to the OP could be to clump any mountains which are (reasonably) close together and do the challenge as a series of multi day hikes. OP says he wants to get ML so I'd say less driving, more wild camping.

In reply to Wiley:

If anyone is interested here is the order sequence so far, a lot of them (eg Snowdonia, Lakes, certain areas of Highlands) I can do as a multi day walk with wild camping (I'd prefer to do this for all). But the distances are so great between some that vehicle travel is inevitable.

1 Foinaven
2 Ben Hope
3 Ben Loyal
4 Ben Klibreck
5 Ben Hee
6 Ben More Assynt
7 Canisp
8 Cùl Mòr
9 Ben More Coigach
10 Beinn Dearg
11 Ben Wyvis
12 Sgùrr Mòr
13 An Teallach
14 Slioch
15 Beinn Eighe
16 Beinn Alligin
17 Liathach
18 Fionn Bheinn
19 Sgorr Ruadh
20 Beinn Bhàn
21 Sgùrr a' Choire Ghlais
22 Sgùrr na Lapaich
23 Càrn Eige
24 A' Chràlaig
25 Beinn Fhada
26 Sgùrr Fhuaran
27 Sgùrr na Coinnich
28 Beinn na Caillich
29 Blà Bheinn
30 Sgùrr Alasdair
31 The Storr
32 Creach Bheinn
33 Garbh Bheinn
34 Sgùrr Dhòmhnuill
35 Sgùrr Ghiubhsachain
36 Beinn Odhar Bhaeg
37 Gaor Bheinn
38 Sgùrr Thuilm
39 Càrn Mòr
40 Sgùrr na Cìche
41 Ladhar Bheinn
42 Sgùrr nan Eugallt
43 Sgùrr a' Mhaoraich
44 Gleouraich
45 Sron a' Choire Ghairbh
46 Ben Macdhui
47 Lochnagar
48 Beinn a' Ghlò
49 Schiehallion
50 Ben Alder
51 Creag Meagaidh
52 Chno Dearg
53 Stob Coire Easain
54 Ben Nevis
55 Binnein Mòr
56 Aonach Eagach
57 Bidean nam Bian
58 Beinn a' Bheithir
59 Beinn Sgulaird
60 Meall a' Bhuiridh
61 Beinn a' Chreachain
62 Ben Lawers
63 Ben Chonzie
64 Ben Vorlich (Loch Earn)
65 Ben More (Crianlarich)
66 Ben Lui
67 Ben Cruachan
68 Ben Lomond
69 Ben Vorlich (Loch Lomond)
70 Doune Hill
71 Beinn Ìme
72 Beinn an Lochain
73 Beinn Mhòr (Cowal)
74 Broad Law
75 Merrick
76 Cross Fell
77 Skiddaw
78 Helvellyn
79 Scafell Pike
80 Carnedd Llewelyn
81 Glyder Fawr
82 Moel Siabod
83 Snowdon
84 Aran Fawddwy
85 Cadair Idris
86 Pen y Fan
87 Waun Fach

In reply to Wiley:
Use a push bike?

The list you've given is interesting to me, in that itincludes and therefore 'justifies' visiting some fine hills that are not munros.
A downside is that there's much more cherry picking of single summits on ridges, as opposed to walking the entire main ridges of the big boys.
There's a somewhat choppy feel to your endeavour. With such a framework for getting out in the hills, I suppose use of a motor vehicle is stylistically appropriate

How can you set out to immerse yourself in the mountains and yet not walk the Cuillin ridge?

In reply to llechwedd:


I have plenty of time to immerse myself in the mountains, and I do it a lot already in Snowdonia. The whole point of this challenge is a physical endurance timed challenge on a large scale, to raise money for a forces charity (and I won't beat around the bush, the supervisory QMDs on some of the legs will be useful for the future).

The reason I originally posted here was to talk about feasibility and timelines, the thread has detoured slightly to more ethical reasons for hill walking or mountaineering.

The Cuillin ridge is definitely on my wishlist for the future, although I hope to get a bit more winter experience first to tackle it with my crampons on!

In reply to Wiley:

Well, you did ask was it worth it.

In my opinion, take aesthetics ( and ethics) out of the equation and you might as well stay at home and see how many skips you can fill over 44 days as a physical challenge.

On a more constructive ending, if you're trying to sell the concept, maybe consider the image that springs to mind for many when Army/Exploits on mountains are mentioned -It won't be parking in a layby and doing a bit of rambling, it'll be The Falklands and 'yomping'.
Maybe do something entirely on foot that links to that heritage and your bosses and the charitable public may view it more favourably than your existing idea.

In reply to llechwedd:

Thanks Llechwedd.

That is a valid point, perhaps bring the number right down but complete it all on foot. Or 3-4 back to back regional challenges (Scottish 4000s, Welsh 3000s etc..)?

In reply to Wiley:

Maybe there's some way of doing something like that which includes visiting places en route with significant Army/Commando connections?
Although I 'd imagine that it'd be a challenge to find places with 'live' connections since so many bases have closed.

In Snowdonia there is the training camp at Capel Curig. There were also WWII Commando training bases at Llanrwst and Bethesda. Brecon Beacons -an clear connection. Scotland- I'm no so sure, but there's the obvious one of Spean Bridge.

How about linking up with ex service personnel on selected bits of whatever route you decide upon. May sound a bit mercenary, but there maybe someone with combat related disability who could only physically manage one hill but would get more publicity/sponsorship if linked to a bigger endeavour. A bit like the baton/relay thing that been shuttling about Britain recently.

In reply to Wiley:



Not familiar with the Scottish mountains, so can't comment on them.

But... much as I love Pen-y-Fan as the nearest 'mountain' to my home, it seems a long way to drive (from north/mid Wales) to do what is basically a 4 mile walk up a hill (460m altitude gained apparently) and back down...

If I was doing it I think I would prefer the regional expedition idea more; just do North Wales, Lakes and various bits of Scotland?

In reply to llechwedd:
something like the welsh 2000ers with bergan?..

(anyone know how far this would be on foot?)

In reply to andrewmcleod:



The trouble is, "all the mountains in Britain with a prominence over 600m" sounds like a reasonably natural challenge, whereas "all the mountains in Britain with a prominence over 600m except for the ones I'd have to get a ferry to or Pen y Fan which is a bit of a schlep" sounds like a bit of a cop out. I still think the plan from your first post sounds pretty achievable to be honest.

Another suggestion might be the Northern section of the Scottish watershed (from the highland boundary fault to the North coast), giving about 750 km of continuous walking with a fairly natural definition. Or just pick the N biggest Munros and do them entirely on foot or foot and bike (for some value of N).