UKH

Had a quick search through threads on UKC and haven't seen this mentioned.

Was out for a walk today following the paved path up the side of Cautley Spout and there was a short piece of rope hanging from the tree at the top of the main 1st pitch. Didn't fancy the traverse over to it but from above I could see other gear in place so I headed back down and traversed over to the tree.

Was surprised to see a couple of new bolts with the static rope tied off using maillons.

Was certainly quite an eyesore.

I know there was an fatality there in winter 2011/12 but where do we stop. Safety cable on Jacks Rake !

In reply to Conan:

Has anybody climbed it since that season? I doubt it.

Could it be some sort of canyoning-type enterprise which has lead to this gear being placed?
There was no fixed gear there when I climbed it that year, but it was at night so I suppose I could have missed it.

I have not seen it but although it may look out of place, non-climbers may think the same when walking up Trow Gill for example.

Andy.

In reply to Andrew Wilson:

That was a thought but wouldn't have expected the rope in place if that was the case. For winter, the bolts may be hidden by ice so the rope would make sense.

I climbed it a couple of days before the accident and it wasn't there then.

In reply to Conan:

Well, it wouldn't be the first time bolts have been placed there for the nefarious purposes of 'canyoning'.

If I recall, there was an incident in the mid- 1990s when a bolt belay was installed.

It was subsequently dispatched by no less a luminary than Doug Scott, who discovered them during a winter ascent of the Spout - and he became angered.

With a spirit worthy of the angry god of the Old Testament, Yahweh, he smote them with a mighty blow from his ice hammer - and they angered him no more.

Perhaps someone should email Doug - or failing that - God, if he's in, and get it sorted.

There has been resin p bolts on there for years. I remember seeing some in around 2007. I think they are used by groups for abseiling / canyoning. Maybe in winter they are buried under ice

In reply to Conan: I believe there is some history there of bolts being placed (for descents) and then being chopped.

In reply to Conan:

Climbed there a few days before the fatality and there was more than one bolt knocking about as i remember.

In reply to Conan:

I remember the Scott/Bonnington outrage making it into climber magazine some years ago now. Late 1990's?. So theres been bolts off and on for years.

In reply to Conan:

Cautley Spout is used for canyoning by local outdoor centres. They were responsible for the last bolts. On average, it is probably climable 3 days per year, canyonable for the rest, can climbers, however famous, really dictate in these circumstances?

In reply to 3leggeddog:

in a word, no.

In reply to franksnb:


Anyone can ask that others in the countryside follow the code and leave nothing behind.

In reply to Conan: Climbed the spout a few years ago and there was a few bolts at the top of the first pitch on the RHS.

IMHO they helped a great deal, as it was very busy and helped to speed things up so more folks could climb the route. It's not a rock route so why not?

Davey

In reply to Mountain Llama:


Anyone can ask that others in the countryside follow the code and leave nothing behind.

In reply to jonnie3430:

In the right situation bolts have there place, whether its a sport route, a trad abb station or alpine routes. If you've climbed the route in question you would know that they do not create an eye sore and only cannon and climbing folk will ever know they are there.

In reply to Mountain Llama:


What did we do before bolts, hey? Ironic that other countries are impressed by our anti bolt ethic, yet some of us are trying to break it from within.

In reply to jonnie3430:


There have always been bolts, even the Romans drilled holes and beat iron bars in to get up and that was a few thousand years ago.
Bolt protected climbing has been around for well over a century in Europe and the USA, 6 decades or more before nuts appeared.

In reply to jimtitt:



Well if the romans did it...

Seriously? That is your defence for bolting? Routes that are permanently defaced like the Deant De Geant are the future? Seriously, why not walk up round the back.

In reply to Conan:

I'm pretty sure that the bolts were placed for canyoning, with the consent and knowledge of the landowner. In a good winter they get buried by the ice. Seeing as removing them may well be considered vandalism, probably best to just ignore them.

In reply to jonnie3430:

I don´t bother to defend or promote bolting on internet forums, merely answering your own question.

In reply to danm:

I did CS a couple of days before TobyA did it. The bolts were well above the ice and slightly awkward to reach in boots and crampons as they are close to the lip of the main fall. I seriously doubt they'd get buried by ice (unless there are others low down), at a guess they are almost 3 metres above the usual flow. I can't see why any would be placed low enough to be affected by water flow.

In reply to Bob:

Fair enough, this is from 10 or so years back, there might be new bolts in a more obvious location. The originals certainly weren't placed with climbing in mind.

In reply to jimtitt:


Jim, where do you think the first bolts placed solely for protecting rock climbing were? US climbers cite Ship Rock in the 1930s. You suggest Europe was much earlier, do you mean Elbe sandstone?

In reply to Colin Wells:

Is this some sort of line management thing? Is God lower in the hierarchy than Doug Scott?

In reply to flaneur:


Half Dome, Yosemite. The FA was a ground-up solo mixed aid(bolts) and free route and used some existing gear from an attempt a few years before. G Anderson (a Scotsman) in 1875. The holes can still be seen a bit to the left of the current cables. The second ascent was interestingly enough by that oft-quoted stalwart of wilderness America, John Muir.
First recorded protection bolt in Europe was 1904 in Saxony though it isn´t really clear about some of the hammered aid gear used before.

In reply to Conan:

My freind and I climbed cautley spout in front of the poor unfortunate guy that died on Boxing Day 2012.
I led the first main pitch and there was a bolted belay at the top on the right hand wall, which I used to belay my partner. I guess it's always there to use as a belay in the summer for canyoning.

It was the best day and the worst day of my climbing life that day!

My climbing partner and I went to climb cautley spout in the morning before heading over to haweswater to climb blea water gill ice falls.

After successfully completing all pitches of cautley spout, with smiles on our faces from ear to ear, on our decent we were faced with the horrific challenges of trying our best to revive the climber that unfortunately fell from the top of the main pitch.

Two other climbers and I spent three hours trying to revive him, along with consoling his climbing partner (olly), who was obviously traumatised.

I've never climbed again with my best mate and climbing partner since that day, I think it was a lot for everyone involved to deal with.

Climb safe people.
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