UKH

This is out of curiosity more than anything.

I was on Lochnagar today. Amazed at the number of young things heading up there to ski Black Spout or something similar. It was obvious even from a distance that there were huge cornices more or less all the way round the rim of the corrie, but that didn't seem to be putting them off. Saw one person standing on one of these cornices, apparently unconcerned. It didn't look all that stable to me.

I was on my way back down the hill while they were still on their way round the corrie rim, so I didn't see whether they actually attempted to ski any of the gullies or not.

Is it normal to ski gullies with huge cornices at the top? If so, how is the cornice tackled?

(Incidentally, one skier had earlier taken a fall and was being attended to by MRT. Saw a helicopter on its way later. Hope they are OK.)

In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Some may climb/abseil down to below cornice and start skiing from there. Others find best looking entry point and drop in diagonally.

In reply to MikeLell:

Ah, right. I wondered about abseiling in.

In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Watch any of the videos on youtube or steepscotland to get an idea of how it's done, although hard to determine the slope angle from GoPro footage.

In reply to MikeLell:

Thanks - I see steepscotland.info is maintained by Scott Muir ( http://www.ukhillwalking.com/forums/profile.php?id=37238 ) - might have guessed.

In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Hi Doug,

Bad news that someone was injured. I hope they are OK as well.

My preference is to time it when the worst of the cornices have gone, but there's still enough snow in the gully or face so that it's worth skiing (and safely). This year, a lot of the entries to the gullies are steeper than normal, with big cracks behind, so not ideal.

I have on occasions taken a short rope with me, so that I can anchor myself when I need to check out an entry to a gully. This can be useful to find out whether there is just a slope below, or a void. The rope needs to be longer this year though due to the build up of snow!

There are still some huge cornices around Lochnagar, but the trick is to find an amenable entry point. Central Gully and Black Spout are popular this year. Both have breaks in the cornices, and both were done today as well I gather. Black Spout has a relatively easy entry on the left (so, climbers right) right now, as is usually the case when the winds have generally been from the SW. No need to stand on any cornices or get over any cracks to ski into the gully. Incidentally, it's also the most full of snow I've ever seen it.

In reply to Scomuir:

There were big instabilities visible above Summit Gully on Aonach Mor today - we traversed round there (nice icy ski at 11:00!) but climbed up fairly rapido when we saw we were on the fracture lines, despite being well back from the cornice. When they go, they go... Avalanche debris running past the Braveheart Chair too - the thaw is warming things up.

In reply to MikeLell:

Having had my first taste of skiing over a cornice today (albeit small ones), I can safely say it's one of the more nervy experiences I've had skiing. Traversing in and trusting the edges to hold is the way forwards; it's just taking that first push off! Much easier the second (and third) times though

In reply to Scomuir:

Thanks, Scott. That makes things a lot clearer!

In reply to James Jackson:

Interesting. Summitt Gully was superb today although large crevasses a long way back from the edge. Aonach Beag has some even bigger cornices.

In reply to Saor Alba:

Yeah it's those crevasses we didn't like. To save walking, we skied around the edge from the top of the summit tow, and the snow quality seemed really dodgy just below those crevasses, so we edged up and out of there. We didn't go down summit gully though, so not sure if there's overhanging snow, or if it's just the snowpack as a whole shifting down. In any case, entering skiers right looked to be on much better snow.

That said, looking over from the Grey Corries today, the only avalanche debris visible is just above the Braveheart lift, close to where we were skiing (Chancers area). This is a fairly old fall though; we were avoiding its crud yesterday.

In reply to James Jackson:

Summit Gully is fine right now and it was the best, of very good, snow on the hill today. The descent into An Cùl Choire is simply superb right now. Amazing mountain scenery also.

We skied out through Coire an Lochain and Coire Dubh and the debris looked quite old close up I thought. Either way it was great fun.

For interest, the Fly Paper is as steep as Summit Gully right now complete with deep crevasses also .

In reply to Saor Alba:

I expect the snow there is similar to the stuff we had on Chancers - really lovely, sugary spring snow. I have been loving the views - really, really Alpine in feel.

Skiing in the Grey Corries yesterday we managed to drop in off lovely snow at the cornice line into what turned out to be a rather steep ice field. That was character-building!

Some photos from the MRT call-out on Braemar MRT Twitter and Facebook pages: https://twitter.com/BraemarMRT

In reply to Douglas Griffin:

Thanks for the link. It's amazing how much less snow there appears to be in the East relative to the Lochaber area.

In reply to Douglas Griffin:

I'll preface this by saying that I'm not referring to the people you saw. I know nothing about them.

There have been numerous threads on here about climbers taking up skiing and all the associated pitfalls, mainly to do with bad technique.

Problems also occur with the opposite, when skiers venture into the mountains proper. The problems here tend to be to do with a lack of awareness of the mountain environment and its dangers.