Dewerstone - Leviathon/Vala abseil point removed again

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 james mann 10 Mar 2014
The abseil point at the top of the first and main pitches of these routes has been removed again. I know that some people may have some kind of ethical crusade about this and that it is possible (but unpleasant) to climb out via the overgrown next pitches of these routes or by traversing into central groove but the the meat of the climbing is in the the first pitches and it is therefore logical to abseil off after pitch 1. The routes are described as single pitches in the rockfax guide also. The gear removed was a long length of static rope tied around the tree and around the most solid of the visible roots all equalized into a steel maillion. The reason for leaving decent tat to rappel from was to make sure that people weren't trusting their lives to a single prussik loop and also to stop people threading a rope directly around the tree and then damaging the bark. I don't really understand why someone would remove this gear (as it isn't worth anything at all) without replacing it with a newer piece.

The tree has seen better days and parts of it are showing signs of becoming rotten. It is only a matter of time before it becomes unsafe. I wonder if it worth canvassing local consensus about whether a more permanent fixed abseil point could be placed here. Before anyone becomes apoplectic with rage and starts to make the 'thin end of the wedge' remark I am definitely not advocating sport climbing at the dewerstone but just one abseil point which could do the job that the tree has done well for years.

James Mann
 Cusco 10 Mar 2014
In reply to mann9076:

James. I'm with you on this.

Every guidebook for years has suggsted abbing off the ledge to avoid the awful climb out.

Some people get worked up about abbing off the tree but are often the same who oppose a fixed ab station. I anticipate your thread will have the usual arguments for and against and, as has been the case for 20 years or more, the status quo will remain - until the tree is irreversibly damaged when the issue will be decided one way or the other at a SW BMC meet.

My own policy is to avoid the dewerstone with its slippery smooth granite, the higher than average accident ratio (I once saw a lady deck from 30ft - whilst she was seconding. Quite!) and the infamous rucksack mauling squirrels.
OP james mann 10 Mar 2014
In reply to Cusco:

Wow. I can't believe it. Finally a sensible comment in reply to a post on UKC. This has got to be a first.
 Kemics 10 Mar 2014
In reply to mann9076:

I cant imagine why a short length of static with a mailon would offend anyone?

Poor tree, I hope people dont end up abbing directly and damaging the bark. I think those stunted oaks on crags are a real beauty.
 Luke90 10 Mar 2014
In reply to mann9076:
> The tree has seen better days and parts of it are showing signs of becoming rotten. It is only a matter of time before it becomes unsafe.

It seems possible that this might be the reason why someone chose to remove the rope. One man's "almost unsafe" is another man's "almost certain to kill someone". Too long since I've climbed the route for me to have an opinion about the state of the tree but it seems worth acknowledging the possibility that someone was acting in good faith by removing it.
OP james mann 10 Mar 2014
In reply to Luke90:

This is part of the reason for a more permanent solution being desirable.

James
 Cheese Monkey 10 Mar 2014
In reply to mann9076:

Pfft I changed that last time I was there as the existing was looking a bit manky and then someone ripped mine out 2 weeks later. Standard affair unfortunately. If the tree does ever go then it will be multipitch or nothing I think. The traverse up to the bottom of the final central groove corner is good fun and worth doing. Belay there then drop down and carry on round under the final crack of Climbers club, proper good exposed VD ground . Or finish up CG. All quality ways off. No bolts needed.
 Gerry 11 Mar 2014
In reply to mann9076:

The rot started with the 1995 guide which only gave the first pitch of Leviathan but without any ecologically sound way of descending. This has always seemed to me to have been a mistake. In my view both these routes should be completed to the top of the cliff as per earlier guides; the less good pitches are all part of the game. If you want to climb single pitch routes then go somewhere else.
Does anyone ever try the top pitch of Vala these days? It's the crux.
 Kemics 11 Mar 2014
In reply to Gerry:

Hmm that would make sense as i thought it was super soft for HVS having only done the first pitch
 GrahamD 11 Mar 2014
In reply to mann9076:

I agree that the logical decent from Leviathon has always been to ab off the tree but surely just rigging a retrievable abseil is easy enough even without fixed gear ? (I'm sure there wasn't any there last time I climbed Leviathon).

Sorry for the well meaning effort someone made in installing an ab station but in reality its loss is only a slight loss of convenience and no reason to initiate anything drastic.
In reply to GrahamD:

>just rigging a retrievable abseil is easy enough even without fixed gear

Is it? How?

IMHO rather than people complaining about not being able to treat trad crags like sport climbs we'd be better off if guidebooks were more responsible about not proposing abseil descents, but then you knew that already.

jcm
 GrahamD 11 Mar 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:

From memory, the abseil is less than 30m so the easiest way is to loop a sling round the back of a tree with a krab on each end of the loop, one each side of the tree. Thread one rope through both these two krabs and abseil off.

Before abbing, connect your other rope to one of the krabs so when you get to the bottom, pull the ab rope down then pull the sling down with the second rope.

Probably most efficient if the leader just lowers the second off to get one end of each rope on the ground and to clear the belay a bit more.

Good for places like Goblin Coombe as well.
 andrewmc 11 Mar 2014
In reply to mann9076:
The Dewerstone PDF guide suggests traversing into the Central Groove which while initially seeming a bit easy does mean you get to do the fun finger crack corner at the top. I have done this both times I've done Leviathan. To be honest I'm not really sure why you get to abseil off this particular route but no other routes?

Incidentally in the Rockfax description of Central Groove the finger crack corner at the top is described as the 'technical crux' of the route (4b), so not ridiculously mismatched to Leviathan (4c).

But... given that Rockfax only describes the first pitch, and abbing off the tree directly is not sustainable, you need to either put up some fixed gear/rope OR a sign describing the second pitch. Or both; presumably fixed gear is more likely to be left alone if it has a note on it saying 'fixed gear placed by XYZ in consultation with ABC etc, please do not remove'.

I guess in summary I think traversing into Central groove is pleasant, rather than unpleasant, and thus have never felt the need to abseil!
Post edited at 14:44
In reply to andrewmcleod:

>I guess in summary I think traversing into Central groove is pleasant, rather than unpleasant, and thus have never felt the need to abseil!

Presumably potentially rather tiresome for parties on Central Groove?

jcm
 andrewmc 11 Mar 2014
In reply to johncoxmysteriously:
I think most of the routes on that bit of Dewerstone tend to funnel into a few exit routes. This is presumably true of many routes in many places, but not an excuse (in general) for abseil descents from fixed gear?

If you were desperate, you could probably belay at the ledge before the finger crack corner and wait without really getting in the way of Central Groovers.

I have no problem with a bit of fixed gear in general; to be honest I would perfectly happy if a few bolts appeared. I'm just not sure why Leviathan (and Vala etc) gets special treatment from the usual walk-off-where-possible trad ethic.
Post edited at 15:57
 Cheese Monkey 11 Mar 2014
In reply to andrewmcleod:

Finishing along the Admirals Traverse is even better in my opinion! Although it would add another pitch.
 gg4419 11 Mar 2014
In reply to andrewmcleod:

If bolts appear at the Dewerstone it will be a tragedy. Climbing is about problem solving, there is no need for bolts there, be more imaginative with your solutions or choose a different route!
In reply to mann9076:

The 'traverse into Central Groove' to which everyone refers is in fact the original finish of Leviathan, as is the continuation up the finger layback. The description of the layback as the finish of CG is a relatively recent thing - the original finish traversed left under the large black nose.

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