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Do many of the runners on here do this, and does it make any difference?
I'm about to up my distance from 14km to 21km for my long runs. I usually throw in a few 7km or 9km tempo runs in the week and plan on doing a long run at the weekend. Wondering if this might help recovery and improve performance or is it a bit of a waste of money?
I'm about to up my distance from 14km to 21km for my long runs. I usually throw in a few 7km or 9km tempo runs in the week and plan on doing a long run at the weekend. Wondering if this might help recovery and improve performance or is it a bit of a waste of money?
In reply to Game of Conkers:
Anecdotally I find it useful after a long run, especially when I can't get proper food easily.
I'm travelling on business at the moment and in the morning I'm planning to do a 30km long run (taking advantage of flat pavement for a change) so I'll use the protein shake afterwards to get me through the rest of the day. But its more much more of a convenience thing to be honest. If you've got easy access to 'real' protein, I'd go for that.
Anything up to 20km and I find I can't get by on a plate of scrambled eggs and toast!
Are you sure you should up your long run distance by 50% in one go? Probably best to go in smaller increments, eg 14, 18, 22?
Anecdotally I find it useful after a long run, especially when I can't get proper food easily.
I'm travelling on business at the moment and in the morning I'm planning to do a 30km long run (taking advantage of flat pavement for a change) so I'll use the protein shake afterwards to get me through the rest of the day. But its more much more of a convenience thing to be honest. If you've got easy access to 'real' protein, I'd go for that.
Anything up to 20km and I find I can't get by on a plate of scrambled eggs and toast!
Are you sure you should up your long run distance by 50% in one go? Probably best to go in smaller increments, eg 14, 18, 22?
In reply to yorkshireman: The long run is a local loop which has a few escape routes. I was just going to set off at a sensible pace and try and get round, if I start to really feel tired I can either cut a corner off or catch a bus
The convenience appeals, I usually get home and hit the biscuit tin. Correct diet is not my strong point
The convenience appeals, I usually get home and hit the biscuit tin. Correct diet is not my strong point
In reply to Game of Conkers: I know a few people, including some who run regular ultras, who swear by them.
I've tried a couple of times with either the 'For Goodness Shakes' ones (they used to give away loads of promotional samples) or just more basic flavoured milk drinks, and really don't get on with them. They cause havoc for my guts for up to 48hours afterward, and taken without the opportunity to have solid food shortly after, I've found myself balled up unable to move in agony an hour or so later.
So I've no idea if they work in aiding recovery, but it's worth checking that they don't have any adverse effects before buying a job lot.
I've tried a couple of times with either the 'For Goodness Shakes' ones (they used to give away loads of promotional samples) or just more basic flavoured milk drinks, and really don't get on with them. They cause havoc for my guts for up to 48hours afterward, and taken without the opportunity to have solid food shortly after, I've found myself balled up unable to move in agony an hour or so later.
So I've no idea if they work in aiding recovery, but it's worth checking that they don't have any adverse effects before buying a job lot.
In reply to Game of Conkers:
I have no scientific evidence for this, but I enjoy a Mars milkshake drink-thing after a decent run. I seem to remember reading reading it on here.
Cheers
I have no scientific evidence for this, but I enjoy a Mars milkshake drink-thing after a decent run. I seem to remember reading reading it on here.
Cheers
In reply to Game of Conkers:
I have a couple of pints of milk with strawberry/chocolate milkshake powder!
I have a couple of pints of milk with strawberry/chocolate milkshake powder!
In reply to Game of Conkers:
Yes, but only in the loosest sense. I usually have a milkshake, nothing fancy, just a milk shake.
Yes, but only in the loosest sense. I usually have a milkshake, nothing fancy, just a milk shake.
In reply to The New NickB:
Same.. after a long run I'll often just make a smoothy.. a banana, handfull of frozen berries, milk, yoghurt.. blend it up..
> (In reply to Game of Conkers)
>
> Yes, but only in the loosest sense. I usually have a milkshake, nothing fancy, just a milk shake.
>
> Yes, but only in the loosest sense. I usually have a milkshake, nothing fancy, just a milk shake.
Same.. after a long run I'll often just make a smoothy.. a banana, handfull of frozen berries, milk, yoghurt.. blend it up..
In reply to Game of Conkers:
I took some SIS rego power on my last mountain marathon to have at mid-camp. No idea if it made any difference, but it tasted nice.
I took some SIS rego power on my last mountain marathon to have at mid-camp. No idea if it made any difference, but it tasted nice.
In reply to Game of Conkers: yazoo banana milk. It's the future.
In reply to Game of Conkers:
Protein supplements may mitigate delayed onset muscle soreness but would be a poor replacement to provide the carbohydrates your body will crave to replenish glycogen stores.
Consuming protein after distance training is concomitant as a carbohydrate replacement - the process required for this, gluconeogenesis, is inefficient and produces nitrogen as a bi-product. It'd probably be cheaper and more beneficial for you to consume a pint of milk, cereal, whole grain toast & consuming enough water to reinstate your pre-exercise body weight.
Protein supplements may mitigate delayed onset muscle soreness but would be a poor replacement to provide the carbohydrates your body will crave to replenish glycogen stores.
Consuming protein after distance training is concomitant as a carbohydrate replacement - the process required for this, gluconeogenesis, is inefficient and produces nitrogen as a bi-product. It'd probably be cheaper and more beneficial for you to consume a pint of milk, cereal, whole grain toast & consuming enough water to reinstate your pre-exercise body weight.
In reply to Game of Conkers:
What time of the day do you run? When I fit in a run before bed I'll have a protein shake so that it can add recovery over night and I dont like eating too late at night.
Protein shake or not you should have some food stait after your run becuse your muscles best uptake protein and carbs in the short window after exersize. This is the best chance to promote full recovery and restore glycogen levels in your muscles. Protein shake and a breakfast bar is easy and quick if your a busy person but not cheap. A Good meal is better.
If you dont get enough protein in your diet relative to your amount of training, your muscles can catabolize there selfs and can even give negative effects to exersize. My freind is doing alot of training (6 days a week) and has protien shakes inbetween some meals just so he can get in enough protein.
What time of the day do you run? When I fit in a run before bed I'll have a protein shake so that it can add recovery over night and I dont like eating too late at night.
Protein shake or not you should have some food stait after your run becuse your muscles best uptake protein and carbs in the short window after exersize. This is the best chance to promote full recovery and restore glycogen levels in your muscles. Protein shake and a breakfast bar is easy and quick if your a busy person but not cheap. A Good meal is better.
If you dont get enough protein in your diet relative to your amount of training, your muscles can catabolize there selfs and can even give negative effects to exersize. My freind is doing alot of training (6 days a week) and has protien shakes inbetween some meals just so he can get in enough protein.
In reply to Game of Conkers:
I've used them after long runs and races. They seem to have a good effect in minimising DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness), but this could be a placebo. I've used SIS Rego a couple of times (minging) and cheapo Whey powder in milk (much nicer, and cheaper).
Also there are studies that say simple choclate milk is as effective as protien shakes for recovery. Certainly tesco's choc milk (low fat) is nutritionally identical to the 'for goodness shake' ones, but half the price.
I've used them after long runs and races. They seem to have a good effect in minimising DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness), but this could be a placebo. I've used SIS Rego a couple of times (minging) and cheapo Whey powder in milk (much nicer, and cheaper).
Also there are studies that say simple choclate milk is as effective as protien shakes for recovery. Certainly tesco's choc milk (low fat) is nutritionally identical to the 'for goodness shake' ones, but half the price.
In reply to George Ormerod: Judging by the consensus, I think i will give it a miss and down a pint of milk and a toast banana peanut butter sandwich.
In reply to George Ormerod:
Mr TC has various recovery shake things including Rego and some dubious whey-based things, but his favourite seems to be either chocolate nesquik powder in milk, or chocolate milk from the supermarket.
Mr TC has various recovery shake things including Rego and some dubious whey-based things, but his favourite seems to be either chocolate nesquik powder in milk, or chocolate milk from the supermarket.
In reply to Game of Conkers:
my preference for activities such as running or cycling longer distances is a serving of maltodextrin in water straight after followed 20 mins later by either a whey shake or food
my preference for activities such as running or cycling longer distances is a serving of maltodextrin in water straight after followed 20 mins later by either a whey shake or food
In reply to George Ormerod:
I've heard this from a friend but where can i find these studies?
> "Also there are studies that say simple choclate milk is as effective as protien shakes for recovery."
I've heard this from a friend but where can i find these studies?
In reply to Josh Hadley - Lattice Training:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23075563
A cursory google reveals various less academic discussions on this.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23075563
A cursory google reveals various less academic discussions on this.
In reply to Josh Hadley - Lattice Training:
that's because they are near enough the same ingredients (protein shakes contain more protein and normally less carbs and are often cheaper)
that's because they are near enough the same ingredients (protein shakes contain more protein and normally less carbs and are often cheaper)
In reply to Game of Conkers:
I just came in from an 8 mile run and ate 2 biscuits and some dried mango
For my longer runs eg 15-20 miles at the weekend usually a lucozade sport and some toast as soon as I finish. I can't stand the for goodness shakes things - revolting!
Mars milk, now that's a recovery drink!! I can't find the bloody things easily though, do people just buy in supermarkets??
I just came in from an 8 mile run and ate 2 biscuits and some dried mango
For my longer runs eg 15-20 miles at the weekend usually a lucozade sport and some toast as soon as I finish. I can't stand the for goodness shakes things - revolting!
Mars milk, now that's a recovery drink!! I can't find the bloody things easily though, do people just buy in supermarkets??
In reply to Game of Conkers: I started using whey protein after runs in the middle of last year and I definitely have noticed a big improvement in my recovery. I intend to keep taking it. I don't like milk but if you drink a pint instead it might work also.
In reply to Game of Conkers: Scrambled eggs on granary toast everytime.
In reply to Game of Conkers: Protein is proven to aid recovery so they do work. For really long runs I take powdered protein drinks on the go. For normal long runs I keep these in the car for immediately afterwards. If I finish at home though I just have a pint of milk which does the job just as well.
In reply to Game of Conkers:
A drink of water or 50/50 of water/supermarket orange juice when I finish a run. Then something like a banana butty. If the run has been a long one, i.e. over a couple of hours then something more substantial to eat as well.
I can't stand milk so have never tried the various milk shakes. I've always viewed the protein shakes as a waste of money - no evidence to back that up, just that I don't think they add anything to a balanced diet.
There was a Panorama on the other month about diet supplements and Graeme Obree reckoned he just raided his fridge and ate sensibly.
ALC
A drink of water or 50/50 of water/supermarket orange juice when I finish a run. Then something like a banana butty. If the run has been a long one, i.e. over a couple of hours then something more substantial to eat as well.
I can't stand milk so have never tried the various milk shakes. I've always viewed the protein shakes as a waste of money - no evidence to back that up, just that I don't think they add anything to a balanced diet.
There was a Panorama on the other month about diet supplements and Graeme Obree reckoned he just raided his fridge and ate sensibly.
ALC
In reply to Game of Conkers: If you have too much protein it will simply come out the other end....don't get caught up in the modern way of thinking about protein.
Also a quick thought about where the 'protein' comes from....horseburger anyone.....
It is easily possible to get all the protein you could possibily need from a good balanced diet. Also remember that there are plenty of veggies/nuts/seeds etc that have lots of very useable protein in them so no real need to stick with the better known sources if you so desire. Enjoying what you eat is SO important and with a little planning you need never touch these 'recovery products' with all the marketing bs attached!!
Also a quick thought about where the 'protein' comes from....horseburger anyone.....
It is easily possible to get all the protein you could possibily need from a good balanced diet. Also remember that there are plenty of veggies/nuts/seeds etc that have lots of very useable protein in them so no real need to stick with the better known sources if you so desire. Enjoying what you eat is SO important and with a little planning you need never touch these 'recovery products' with all the marketing bs attached!!
In reply to mikekeswick:
Find out what works for you, and give home made a try if you can be faffed. Certainly when I was going to the gym I was surprised by the number if people necking techno fuel, before during and after. And not always the people doing meaningful work
Quote from Graeme Obree: "Be cynical... there is no profit in telling you that sardines, toast and veggies is one of the best meals you can eat."
Find out what works for you, and give home made a try if you can be faffed. Certainly when I was going to the gym I was surprised by the number if people necking techno fuel, before during and after. And not always the people doing meaningful work
Quote from Graeme Obree: "Be cynical... there is no profit in telling you that sardines, toast and veggies is one of the best meals you can eat."
In reply to Game of Conkers: I can't think there is any harm in taking them regularly, but they are expensive and I can think of better ways to spend cash (like new trainers!) when there are far cheaper alternatives to manufactured recovery drinks.
I can only quote Jez Bragg on his recent run New Zealand run (3000Ks) at about 40 miles a day:
"Everyone asks, ‘What sports and recovery drinks are you taking?’ None, I drink chocolate milk and eat potato chips and chocolate. I eat really substantial meals. Solid, hardy food has worked"
I think basic (cheap) nutritiuos foods are underestimated as we are sold the idea of 'go faster' gels and drinks by the industry.
I can only quote Jez Bragg on his recent run New Zealand run (3000Ks) at about 40 miles a day:
"Everyone asks, ‘What sports and recovery drinks are you taking?’ None, I drink chocolate milk and eat potato chips and chocolate. I eat really substantial meals. Solid, hardy food has worked"
I think basic (cheap) nutritiuos foods are underestimated as we are sold the idea of 'go faster' gels and drinks by the industry.
In reply to Game of Conkers: Most important thing is not so much what you eat but when. You need to consume carbs and protein (preferably 4:1 ratio) within 30 minutes of exercise. If I'm not going to be home in time I usually go for a pint of choc milk (love fridj), otherwise I make my own recovery drink with
1 banana
1 large scoop peanut butter
a handful of seeds
several big spoons of yoghurt
a large dollop of runny honey
topped up with skimmed milk and blitzed.
Yum
1 banana
1 large scoop peanut butter
a handful of seeds
several big spoons of yoghurt
a large dollop of runny honey
topped up with skimmed milk and blitzed.
Yum
In reply to Moley:
Agree whole-heartedly with the "Real food" argument, but Gels have their place. Its bloody hard to eat anything that requires chewing while running, I find!
>
> I think basic (cheap) nutritiuos foods are underestimated as we are sold the idea of 'go faster' gels and drinks by the industry.
> I think basic (cheap) nutritiuos foods are underestimated as we are sold the idea of 'go faster' gels and drinks by the industry.
Agree whole-heartedly with the "Real food" argument, but Gels have their place. Its bloody hard to eat anything that requires chewing while running, I find!
In reply to Moley:
I am also one for natural food, but even Jez will have to admit that a couple of gels carry more easily than a bag of "potato chips"
It's a question of convenience. On a long training run with a pack I carry sandwiches, nuts and dried fruit, etc. In mountain races that take a relatively short time, say up to 5 hours I just stuff some gels and bars into my shorts. Much more convenient.
I do something similar with recovery food. If I train form home and can get a good meal as soon as I get out of the shower I don't bother with expensive recovery drinks. If however, I finish a race and have two hour drive home I'll have one ready in the car for convenience.
>
> I can only quote Jez Bragg on his recent run New Zealand run (3000Ks) at about 40 miles a day:
> "Everyone asks, ‘What sports and recovery drinks are you taking?’ None, I drink chocolate milk and eat potato chips and chocolate. I eat really substantial meals. Solid, hardy food has worked"
>
> I think basic (cheap) nutritiuos foods are underestimated as we are sold the idea of 'go faster' gels and drinks by the industry.
> I can only quote Jez Bragg on his recent run New Zealand run (3000Ks) at about 40 miles a day:
> "Everyone asks, ‘What sports and recovery drinks are you taking?’ None, I drink chocolate milk and eat potato chips and chocolate. I eat really substantial meals. Solid, hardy food has worked"
>
> I think basic (cheap) nutritiuos foods are underestimated as we are sold the idea of 'go faster' gels and drinks by the industry.
I am also one for natural food, but even Jez will have to admit that a couple of gels carry more easily than a bag of "potato chips"
It's a question of convenience. On a long training run with a pack I carry sandwiches, nuts and dried fruit, etc. In mountain races that take a relatively short time, say up to 5 hours I just stuff some gels and bars into my shorts. Much more convenient.
I do something similar with recovery food. If I train form home and can get a good meal as soon as I get out of the shower I don't bother with expensive recovery drinks. If however, I finish a race and have two hour drive home I'll have one ready in the car for convenience.
In reply to andybenham:
Did a mountain marathon a few years back and on the second day the bonk was rapidly approaching. My partner handed me a pork pie which was surprisingly easy to digest and certainly did the trick.
ALC
> (In reply to Moley)
> [...]
>
> Agree whole-heartedly with the "Real food" argument, but Gels have their place. Its bloody hard to eat anything that requires chewing while running, I find!
> [...]
>
> Agree whole-heartedly with the "Real food" argument, but Gels have their place. Its bloody hard to eat anything that requires chewing while running, I find!
Did a mountain marathon a few years back and on the second day the bonk was rapidly approaching. My partner handed me a pork pie which was surprisingly easy to digest and certainly did the trick.
ALC
In reply to Game of Conkers:
I have used gels and powders (high 5) and they certainly had their place during races, a few gels in pocket and powder to add to new water during the day. But I really only utilised this on races up to say 5 hours where carrying weight etc. was an issue. I still prefered any cakes or biscuits available en route!
For training I just stuff food into my rucksack and eat food when I arrive home. Also manufactured gels/powders are only palatable for so long before the tummy goes "yuk, I want a marmite sandwich or pork pie".
Basically for me - they work for a while but I would rather take mixed solid foods on a run and eat well afterwards and save my money for something else.
Did I mention the recovery benefits of beer........?
I have used gels and powders (high 5) and they certainly had their place during races, a few gels in pocket and powder to add to new water during the day. But I really only utilised this on races up to say 5 hours where carrying weight etc. was an issue. I still prefered any cakes or biscuits available en route!
For training I just stuff food into my rucksack and eat food when I arrive home. Also manufactured gels/powders are only palatable for so long before the tummy goes "yuk, I want a marmite sandwich or pork pie".
Basically for me - they work for a while but I would rather take mixed solid foods on a run and eat well afterwards and save my money for something else.
Did I mention the recovery benefits of beer........?
In reply to Game of Conkers:
I have Chocolate milk made with Nesquik - couple of quid, lasts ages and has no artificial crap in it.
Great article from the really very good DC Rainmaker about the benefits of Chocolate Milk vs Recovery drinks here:-
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2009/03/chocolate-milk-vs-endurox-r4-recovery.ht...
Cheers,
Ken
I have Chocolate milk made with Nesquik - couple of quid, lasts ages and has no artificial crap in it.
Great article from the really very good DC Rainmaker about the benefits of Chocolate Milk vs Recovery drinks here:-
http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2009/03/chocolate-milk-vs-endurox-r4-recovery.ht...
Cheers,
Ken
In reply to Moley:
Yeah I get that too...I tend to carry a plactic bag with nuts, fruit, etc for that point where the thought of another gel is too much
With you there!
> gels/powders are only palatable for so long before the tummy goes "yuk, I want a marmite sandwich or pork pie".
Yeah I get that too...I tend to carry a plactic bag with nuts, fruit, etc for that point where the thought of another gel is too much
> Did I mention the recovery benefits of beer........?
With you there!
In reply to DefenderKen:
I will happily drink the stuff, but there is plenty artificial crap in Nesqick.
I will happily drink the stuff, but there is plenty artificial crap in Nesqick.
In reply to andybenham:
I have always had a problem with gels. I am currently marathon training and carrying anything is pain, so I am doing long runs without any food or drink during the run, 21.25 miles is my longest run so far (about 2:30) and it seems fine.
Racing the marathon I will hopefully be going 30-40 seconds a mile faster so will be taking on a little water and will carry a few jelly beans, which I am OK with, but I think as long as the body is well prepared, training and Pre-fuelling, I don't think much is needed up to the marathon.
I have always had a problem with gels. I am currently marathon training and carrying anything is pain, so I am doing long runs without any food or drink during the run, 21.25 miles is my longest run so far (about 2:30) and it seems fine.
Racing the marathon I will hopefully be going 30-40 seconds a mile faster so will be taking on a little water and will carry a few jelly beans, which I am OK with, but I think as long as the body is well prepared, training and Pre-fuelling, I don't think much is needed up to the marathon.
In reply to Moley:
Only the first pint unfortunately.
> (In reply to Game of Conkers)
> Did I mention the recovery benefits of beer........?
Only the first pint unfortunately.
Vaguley echoing what most people have said I try and have a large glass of milk and a jam sandwich straight after a run if I end up at home.
Otherwise it is a pint of beer, a flapjack and whatever food the pub puts on after the club social run
If neither is available, I keep a For Goodness Shakes and a water bottle in the running bag so I can drink it on the drive home. I find the trick is not to shake it too violently otherwise it fills with bubbles and makes you burp chocolate milk flavour for the rest of the night... :/
Otherwise it is a pint of beer, a flapjack and whatever food the pub puts on after the club social run
If neither is available, I keep a For Goodness Shakes and a water bottle in the running bag so I can drink it on the drive home. I find the trick is not to shake it too violently otherwise it fills with bubbles and makes you burp chocolate milk flavour for the rest of the night... :/
In reply to thedatastream: Just got back from a 14km lunchtime run and had a chocolate milkshake and chicken curry with rice straight after. Burping a bit if I'm honest
In reply to Game of Conkers:
I would just love to see the leading runner in the London Marathon (a Kenyan or Ethiopian perhaps) grab a porkpie at the 20 mile feeding station and start munching away at it whilst still knocking out sub 5min miles.
Then be interviewed at the finish whilst drinking a pint. It would do wonders for British marathon running.
I'm sure Steve Jones and Charlie Spedding were more on those lines!
I would just love to see the leading runner in the London Marathon (a Kenyan or Ethiopian perhaps) grab a porkpie at the 20 mile feeding station and start munching away at it whilst still knocking out sub 5min miles.
Then be interviewed at the finish whilst drinking a pint. It would do wonders for British marathon running.
I'm sure Steve Jones and Charlie Spedding were more on those lines!
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